Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:
Mutants
I never knew how much thought was put to a single aspect of the game, even when it didn't play such a big part. The mutants, or, the Forgotten, as they were later called, were going to be a completely new faction in Tiberian Sun with great emphasis on the storyline. I'm not aware of exact details on why their meaning decreased.
My point? While looking for something interesting in CnC Source gallery, I ended up in the TS PE (Platinum Edition) section. I had been there before, but only now I noticed that the manual had a very interesting page about game designers, and there, an article of the design of the mutants. Unfortunately, we can't see the bottom of the article, and a lot of crucial information is thus missing.
I was wondering if the actual manual shows the rest of the article, or if anyone has/knows the rest of the story?
Somehow offtopic:
This is what I miss most in Command & Conquer games after Tiberian Sun: The thought put and the depth in one, even rather minor, aspect of the storyline, missions, and the whole game. Not just "oh yah! Mutant marauders!" thrown into the package.
mutants.PNG
Description:
A snippet from the Platinum Edition manual, describing the mutants in detail.
I got the impression that EA didn't really care for or REALLY hated all the mutated stuff Westwood placed in FS? I might be going too far. but
Why did they get MIT guys to redefine something?
and in the video interview when asked about Veinholes and such before KW was released...they said it wasn't "Fast,Fluid and Fun"...or had a rather...pitiful response. =/
oh well, I know this is going back, to what if's etc.
but its nice to see stuff like this, truly "Forgotten" aspects. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
All I know is what they have in the original game. I remember them saying "Nod controls 49% of the world's Tiberium, GDI 26%, and then it was like 25% belonged to other". This other never really came up again. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Location: Village of Creston, British Columbia.
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:
One thing about the other category is that is basically everything that isn't GDI or Nod exclusive. This means civilian operations, research groups, definitely some mutants or something, and possibly something of alien origin. That crashed ship comes to mind, and no, I really don't want any discussion as to whether or not it's a downed orca or an alien ship.
Plenty of hidden gems we never got to see when WestWood made both TD and TS. It's a shame really. And if you can find some more, please don't hesitate to show us! _________________
Oh, fuggerbuggerrit! QUICK_EDIT
The mutants didn't play a large part early on, but they could be the beginning of a major story arc in the Tiberium Universe.
Think about the amounts of Tiberium - in only a decade the world would be overgrown with the stuff. The mutants could have been being set up for later games where the world was getting more apocalyptic.
This is only speculation, but Westwood obviously had plans for later tales, and the Mutants could be that continuation. QUICK_EDIT
This is only speculation, but Westwood obviously had plans for later tales, and the Mutants could be that continuation.
Indeed, according to ex-Westwood designers, the mutants were the force that would ultimately hinder the Scrin invasion. The aliens did not expect any humans to survive from Tiberium toxication, and thus they had no idea how powerful the mutated humans could be. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Location: Village of Creston, British Columbia.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject:
Sounds like a plan. And yes I know that dude(what's his name :\) said something like that, but really why would it only be used once on that one level. Oh well, I'ma shuttin' mah trap on that subject now. _________________
Oh, fuggerbuggerrit! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject:
Crimsonum wrote:
Quote:
This is only speculation, but Westwood obviously had plans for later tales, and the Mutants could be that continuation.
Indeed, according to ex-Westwood designers, the mutants were the force that would ultimately hinder the Scrin invasion. The aliens did not expect any humans to survive from Tiberium toxication, and thus they had no idea how powerful the mutated humans could be.
Am I the only one who immediatly thinks of War of the Worlds when reading this Big ass mean aliens being killed by something small? QUICK_EDIT
The book is better than that crappy film they made a couple of years ago... my god that sucked.
Yeah, it's a bit bigger than what crushed the martians in war of the worlds, the tiniest organisms there are killed them... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
ironic. but it echos that even super advanced race is prone to hubris? and cuts corners...so i can see it goes into the phrase "The Devil is in the details."...at least how I interpret that..... _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Location: Village of Creston, British Columbia.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:
Indeed, even if we(humans) ever even ran into another planet that supports even some life there's a good chance most of these pioneers would die from exposure to an alien organism and pass off the infection to others cause an epidemic. This is one thing I've always wondered. Just how horrible could such a thing end up from simply finding other life elsewhere? _________________
Oh, fuggerbuggerrit! QUICK_EDIT
It makes really good sense, and is hinted at in the story arc, that mutants would eventually save our planet. Kane knew or knows something about the scrin, it may be that he is/was scrin, or knows what they are capable of, that's why he was really mutating people, to prepare the world for what may come. Divination, if you will.
It could be argued that CABALs rampage wasn't really a rampage at all, but a continuation of that ultimate goal that Kane had all along. Its just that CABAL was REALLY blunt about doing it. Think of it like this: Kane lures people into becoming super soldiers through divination and other dogma, because in no way shape form or fashion would a sane person volunteer to become mutated with tiberium and cybernetically enhanced (as a general rule). CABAL forced people into doing it, which is what caused such a huge backlash, even though the act was going on before his rampage. Never the less, the goal of the two remained the same: Create a force to counter the Scrin when, not if, they arrive.
Kane is CABAL theory plays well as well, although I believe that CABAL is some sort of electronic manifestation of Kane himself, or contains a similar will and drive of his master. Without the master thier to control it, it tried to do its masters will to the best of its ability.
Renegade plays on the idea of mutants even more, and even though some of it is not canonically (SP?) correct, it does touch base with the mutant issue.
Think about the brutes, acolytes and templars and you could possibly see what i mean.
I think that the overall design scheme to Tiberian Dawn and Sun was much deeper than all of us could possibly hope to understand with the information that has been presented to us at this time. I would love to see more of Westwood's work.
The LAMPREY is a really cool idea too. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Regulus, you might actually be onto something... From what I know of, Viscroids, the first sign of mutations in Tiberium Dawn, might've gave Nod the idea to start the experiments. Since in Renegade, they were doing experiments, one of the levels shows some Mutant Innitiates with the Nod Logo in human sized test tubes (Can't remember which mission, but I know it's the boat one). And they were used more actively later in the game, though some of them were unstable and died or mutated into Viscroids (Like in the Town mission where you are trying to get the Dead Five (Correct?) back together at the Cathedral. I haven't beaten the game yet (Fully), so I can base that they were doing that, while also starting their cybernetic experiments in Renegade (Known as a fact to me due to one of the characters getting enhanced, literally). I'm guessing that in Tiberian Sun then, the Cybernetic experiments were a success, and the Mutation experiments were ether ceased, or not mentioned in the story, especially since the mutants seemed a hell lot more stable in TS then in Renegade and in better shape too... So Kane must've been having this going on without the player him/herself actually knowing with the way Westwood made it. QUICK_EDIT
I think what happens in renegade is cannon. I remember reading an article that the mutants and cuborgs were Nod's first foray into those areas, but since those research facilities were destroyed by GDI, it set them back so much that they didn't back back on tract until TS. CABAL keeps saying throughout firestorm that humans have reached an "evolutionairy deadend", which probably, yeah, means he wants to make them mutants and cyborgs so they are stronger, perhaps to combat the scrin. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I looked up LAMPREY on wikipedia, (LOLOLOL) and a lamprey is alot like a leech. A jawless fish that sucks the blood from other fish. Interesting, as the mutants pretty much leech from other societies for their food, and equipment.
The paper also suggests that the Forgotten were to play a much larger role in the story then they actually did. I really consider them to be synonymous with the Fedakien (SP?) from the Dune series, and the LAMPREY sounds almost like a sandcrawler in my opinion. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
You mean the Fremen right? And yeah, lamphreys cling to other fish and takes their blood, a vampire fish
And the
Forgotten
Fremen
similarity is probaqbly more than coincidence, call it inspiration if you will. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Yes, a lamprey is a parasite. The text describes the mutants as a parasitic faction which steals essential goods from GDI and Nod, but it can countered by what they have gone trough (being in Nod medical facilities, getting into mutation processes which usually failed and propably caused the individual to turn into a visceroid). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject:
Lt A1br3cht wrote:
similarity is probably more than coincidence, call it inspiration if you will.
probably... seeing at it's written on the very first line of that document attached up there? they misspelled it as "Freeman"... but this is all written before Half Life was released _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject:
Considering that Westwood also did the Dune video games, it wouldn't be impressive to find that the Forgotten were actually based on the Fremen.
Aren't TS cyborgs also mutants?, as they heal on tiberium, just like them.
Finally, I really like the concept of "Berzerkers" going to add them to RoO's tiberian creatures lists.. But what I specially like is how it describes the mutation progress.
On a side note (in relation to Bako'Ikaporamee's post), it's also quite likely that an alien species would be highly immune to any of Earth's diseases (the same would apply to humans in alien conditions). The reason for this is that they might have developed a different "genetic code". As an example it could be based on more than 4 bases, and it might not even have a spiral shape, thus those aliens would be immune to viruses, also the chemical compounds used in their metabolism (in reference to those used on their proteins), could be different, rendering then immune to bacterias, as those would be unable to attack their structures (though this would be unlikely).
However this also adds the possibility that if they can be affected by Earth's microorganisms they couldn't be able to retaliate against them, making them really weak in our world.
Yay for offtopic. QUICK_EDIT
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Mutants
Big ass mean aliens being killed by something small?
