Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject:
The Generals poll
Subject description: why PPM doesn't like this game...
Okay, after a little chat between me and DaFool we decided to create this poll. It's to discover why PPM ain't interested in modding Generals. The outcome of this poll will decide if we are going to invest more time to make Generals more popular here. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Location: Tiberium Research Center N27
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject:
I didn't actually ever took a look at the Generals moding. Then again, even though it uses the .ini system, it requiered a lot more knowledge to go beyond a simple,"Added 10 tanks shooting lasers" mod. _________________ DUNK! QUICK_EDIT
I went for EA made it although its that and the 1st option and the 4th option, I personally hate EA purely because they seem to never help me with any problems I ever post on the forums, like my current RA3 connection problems.
As for Generals I will play it but only with mates, the AI are boring easy and the campaign is rubbish. Also like gufu said it does require more knowledge than modding the older (real) C&C games. _________________ [url=http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/images/signature/cache/elliott_street_amarr_eve_sig.png[/img][/url] QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject:
Well I don't mod Generals because I started modding 2D games, and I got used to them. After learning 3D modeling I thought about moving to a 3D engine (either Warcraft 3 or Generals), however I was too attached to TS 2D engine and modding, and I also didn't like the idea of making a TC at that time (no 3D game had the sci-fi atmosphere I wanted).
Then came TW and I thought about modding it (this time a TC), but I didn't like it, dunno why actually.
Anyways I still have plans for said TC, yet the game isn't out yet, apparently it' more suited for what I want (though it will need some modifications, ), sadly it isn't a C&C game. QUICK_EDIT
It lacks a good rendering system+coding is pretty hard for me...
Oh come on, you knew nothing of SAGE rendering until i told you lol
Ya'know, people are picky, and its bad.
Generals is a good game, good concept, just was not executed very well. And for people who said "EA Made it", well, you should research Westwood a little, there where not always the golden charm thought think they are. So really, EA did good by keeping the trademark open by seeing that they could still make money with it, thats not a bade thing, its what all games company's aer out there for NO matter what you say, and that is, money... QUICK_EDIT
I like voxelling, pure and simple.
Older games have a uniqueness about them. As good as Generals or TW or RA3 may be, they're just more games. Back around TD, RA, and TS they're fresher and have that undefinable aspect of soul which is so lacked in any newer game.
I'll probably end up modding Generals, but not until it is an old game, hopefully with more finished mods and tutorials.
For now I'll stick with voxelling. QUICK_EDIT
Generals came out 1 year and 4 months after YR did. That isn't much of a difference in age. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I didn't say YR was any good
I mean that while EA is a great business, the developers aren't seen to pour soul into their games - they're just clones now. QUICK_EDIT
I hate it because stock resolution is SO low. I have a wide screen and seeing one unit on my screen at a time makes REGULUS MAD. REGULUS SMASH! _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
"It lacks several C&C-typical stuff (sidebar at right, ConYard system)"
Also the simple fact that they made an C&C single player campaign without FMV's is just so much heresy, the only way EA can redeem themselves is by sacrificing 666 million newborn babies. QUICK_EDIT
You shouldn't have to install a custom resolution for a game that should already have it. Fail game was/is fail. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Hmm, generals came out in 2003, what was the standard resolution back then? And do games that came out at a similar time have widescreen and big resoultion options?
Also, this poll died pretty quickly. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject:
Well, I come to the conclusion that PPM just doesn't give a shit about Generals. Simple as that. I think I know just enough for my next move... QUICK_EDIT
TBH even if I don't know coding,I have to say,that there is a pretty big possibility of moving my project to Gen.,but,I'm still taking this into discussion,and all the work is WiP/private. QUICK_EDIT
I can't model, shop, script in WB and the inis. The coding is damn, very damn complicated. The furthest "modding" I've done into Gens/ZH was changing a unit's buildtime, health etc. and adding the Guard/Attack Move buttons. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I guess I was too busy voxelling for TS and RA2 to look at it.
And on top of that they had a wierd resource system (I mean who leaves crates of valuable supplies in the middle of nowhere) and the side bar of course.
Dispite these Im sure we can come up with come creative ways of getting around them to be more cncish.
Home grown tutorials would also be great to boost interest in Generals here. QUICK_EDIT
There's a decent amount of tutorials in there now, enough to get a modder starter. Atleast now we don't have to link generals modders away to distant lands (and probably never see them again).
I wonder if some big name flagship mod that got a bunch of people involved would gain interest? The coding is actually not that hard once you learn what everything means, and in a way it seems alot more organized than the older games codes. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
yes... generals coding are organized... the thing that im not interested to mod this for now is i dont have time...
and as i said before the coding takes too much time also hehehe...
Quote:
And on top of that they had a wierd resource system (I mean who leaves crates of valuable supplies in the middle of nowhere) and the side bar of course.
I wonder if some big name flagship mod that got a bunch of people involved would gain interest? The coding is actually not that hard once you learn what everything means, and in a way it seems alot more organized than the older games codes.
Well I was kind of thinking the same thing. I have sent a message to one of the administrators/creators from the mmosg (massively multiplayer online strategy game) Rivality if he would mind if a generals mod was made based on its core concepts. Still waiting for a reply as it was only sent 4 hours ago.
But we could take it in and tweak it to our liking as well as add further sides to it.
It would be a simple mod to make derived from simple concepts and I think it would be very fun to play.
The graphics dont have to be state of the art to pull something like this off either so it might to something like generals justice in the long run. QUICK_EDIT
Ok I got the ok from the admin/creator of Rivality to make it into an RTS mod.
Quote:
Subject: Re: Rivality to RTS
From: henrik
Date: 2009-02-05 16:08:31
That sounds really interesting. I don´t know anything about your experience in game programming but it would be really cool to see Rivality as a RTS game.
I guess that would be quite a lot of work though, but im not very much into graphical programming myself.
So yes, you are free to give it a try, though, of course we cannot allow any competing business with our concept. So if you are serious about doing this, maybe we could cooperate for a cool single player complement to Rivality.com.
Regards,
- henrik
I think he was under the impression this was going to be a game starting from scratch. I'll fill him in further on what were doing.
So If you guys are serious about making a flagship mod to relaunch interest in generals modding, this is probably the best opportunity.
Someone told me on moddb that the ra3 mod was better than mine....Do I dare post comparison pics?
Anyways,
It lacks several C&C-typical stuff: These can be emulated
3D moddeling is difficult: it becomes intuition after a while
Coding is difficult: not after the first couple times
Prefer older games: Matters of taste can't be argued
EA made it: oh grow up
I do mod Generals: yay
Something else (please explain) _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Generals is like the second game on SAGE Engine.
And RA3 is like... the 3rd and 4th.
Don't really know I don't like paying attention, with how many variations of the same engine can come up.
Generals 2/It's expansion pack will use RNA.
Then after that they will recreate it but it will still be the same lack luster of an engine, and call it CNA or DNA. lol QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:04 am Post subject:
Mortecha wrote:
Ok I got the ok from the admin/creator of Rivality to make it into an RTS mod.
Quote:
Subject: Re: Rivality to RTS
From: henrik
Date: 2009-02-05 16:08:31
That sounds really interesting. I don´t know anything about your experience in game programming but it would be really cool to see Rivality as a RTS game.
I guess that would be quite a lot of work though, but im not very much into graphical programming myself.
So yes, you are free to give it a try, though, of course we cannot allow any competing business with our concept. So if you are serious about doing this, maybe we could cooperate for a cool single player complement to Rivality.com.
Regards,
- henrik
I think he was under the impression this was going to be a game starting from scratch. I'll fill him in further on what were doing.
So If you guys are serious about making a flagship mod to relaunch interest in generals modding, this is probably the best opportunity.
Who is interested in working with me?
Depends on what jobs you have. I don't know the universe/game you linked to, but it looks nice QUICK_EDIT
I don't hate Generals, but it's definitely not a C&C. I feel more interested in modding the older games because isometric(dimetric) is much easier than 3D. Although, there are issues that could be fixed by modding 3D engines. QUICK_EDIT
Depends on what jobs you have. I don't know the universe/game you linked to, but it looks nice #Tongue
Well I'll need acouple of days to research and plan the features of the mod. I think getting the oil based resource system to work will be the hardest part at this stage.
But modelling and coding will be the only required jobs for now. I can do alittle modelling in 3ds max (mainly extruding and bevelling an editable poly), and an definitely going to learn skinning with textures and UV maps. so It would be good for me to start by building simple units such as these.
The units themselves and the art forms behind rivality are very reminicent of the same art styles of say advanced wars so the models won't have to be complicated or highly detailed. They should be able to fit with in the poly count limits of the generals sage engine.
If your interested Dutchy, your in.
This will have to be build into a small workable demo before we can even think of applying to have hosting here. Saying that though, We need a private forum atleast to develope it. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:48 am Post subject:
I am interested, but I just remember that I also have some jobs to do for MV, TI and my own Generals Mod... So I dunno if I can do much for it I can do the things you want (coding, basic moddeling). QUICK_EDIT
1) It eschews all elements that make C&C gameplay C&C:
Construction yard
Regrowing map resource
Single build que for WFs/Barracks (first game to do so)
No GDI, Nod, Allies or Soviets
No live action FMVs
No links to the C&C universe (You know it's meant to be) _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Noes!!111!!1!!1 I hav a dozer!! w00t is has nothing to do with C&C!!1!!11!1!! Lulz, no Tiberium or Ore? WTF!1!!11!! And what´s "China"?? Man, this sucks ass
Is this how you fell when you play Generals QUICK_EDIT
No. How I feel when I play generals is "Meh, this is a mediocre game with a ripoff logo". _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
I do see some of your points, but you can still build buildings, build own resource structures(Makes up for lack of regrowing Resources), Capture tech structures, garrison civilian buildings and a lot of other stuff like the previous C&C games had.
And it seems like you didn´t play the campagins at all, FMVs were replaced with Cutscenes(if you didn´t know, it works much like FMVs), but you still proves that FMVs are one thing that makes C&C C&C.
Also, C&C 3 has alot of stuff that comes from Generals, like:
-Each WF\Bar\AF has it´s own buildque
-All Inf can garrison Structures
-FOW
-New buildque for each CY (taken from Dozers\Workers)
-FOW returns over an area when no units are inside it
Did you see that, or did you pay to much attention to the Tiberium, Nod and GDI to notice it QUICK_EDIT
Damn it, I forgot about engineers. I wonder if I could edit the hijacker code so my engie hijacks structures?
But cutscenes and story should not be a factor to us modders dealing with a game. Infact, we should be adding our own story and cutscenes even if we are going to mod.
The User Interface is a bit more primitive than that of say, ra2, but thats just because there are no direct buttons to buildings (I'll see if I can change this). _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I just came across something I read (and saved) a while ago:
Quote:
Playing Generals is a very simple mix of 'forgetting' various things about the game and then slowly remembering them once you're comfortable with them:
1) 'Forget' the fact that it has C&C in the title.
2) 'Forget' that it has EA anywhere near it.
3) While playing, reassure yourself that "Generals is a fine game in many respects"
4) Slowly rehabilitate yourself to either of the top two concepts (Depending on which one offends you less)
...
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The Generals poll
), sadly it isn't a C&C game.
I can do the things you want (coding, basic moddeling).
