I wouldn't call it fate...there's so much (and at the same time so little) we can do to increase, or decrease, our lifespan. In Xeno's case, I don't think he could've done much... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Xeno died because he lost the genetic lottery. Whilst he was here he was a great guy, if you believe in life after death, spare our old pal a prayer to help him on his way.
If you don't, please just honour his memory. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Well, everyone dies eventually. No one can stop that from happening or suggest how he/she should die (not like those final destination movies...crap movies about death). My cat died on October 19 2008 through old age. This is all God's will. Xeno was fated to die from cancer. Just so unlucky for him. Again, RIP Xeno. We're gonna miss you, amigo.
That's weird.
October is the 10th month.
2008=2+8=10
19=1+9=10.
On a more serious note there is a lot of chance and probability in this world, and sometimes it leads to tradgedies like Xeno's death. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:
Please, don't bring God into this. He's dead, and it's a bloody shame, but it sure as hell ain't "God's will" Yes, I am an atheist FYI...
EDIT: thanks to the one who splitted this QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject:
I know this is a topic that all of us feel strongly about, though I don't think it would be proper to debate it in Xeno's thread.
Probability is an invention of mankind to predict events for factors that are difficult or impossible to calculate.
There will always be things we can't explain, and whereas probability is the best method of predicting them, it is not the ultimate answer as to why they happen.
I've explained my belief before a few times, and that is that everything happens for a reason-
if only for the fact that believing no good can come from a tragedy just plain sucks. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
As for why did Xeno die...well it could happen to all of us.I mean,we could die tomorrow,tonight or even 5 seconds after I post whilst a plane crashes over your house.
Its inevitable that all of us will die,and that we aren't immortal.But then,if we were immortal,were would've been the joy of life,of living at maximum a limited amount of time,and dieing happy that you had a good time.
People here(in Romania) are understanding pretty well with death.On short,we don't give a damn if we die,no matter how*People here start to buy coffins and such stuff since the age of 60.
*Its a joke here:If it happens that a Trabant hits you and you die,you don't die of the hit,you die of shame QUICK_EDIT
One way you can see it (and not the best way - its probably some form of depression) is that nothing matters.
If there is indeed an afterlife then I sure as hell dont care what happens here. I'll live on anyway.
If there isn't an afterlife i.e there is nothing, then it doesnt matter either because no matter what happens here, I won't ultimately remember it. If I murder a few people it won't matter because I'll be gone. No punishment, not eternal damnation. Nothing. QUICK_EDIT
Pretty much, there are consequences in this life, but it's all cause and effect. It's not a form of depression, trust me
Anyways, if you look at it as "what will happen if I do X?" and "Ok, it's Y. Do I want Y?" you petty much end up where I am. It's not bad tbh.
religion was created by humans as we have a desire to find meaning and a cause for everything, naturally if science can't give us the answer in comes a different approach, namely religion/supernatural beliefs, whether it be ghosts of ancestors or a dude portrayed strangely like zeus who loves us all and gave his son, religion fills the gap between what we understand and what we don't.
I believe that the closes thing to god there is is whatever cock-up caused the big bang. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Science is a religion. Both are and were created to explain things we can't generally understand through normal living. I don't fully believe in either. I think some elements of science are true, some interesting as do I think religion is interesting. What I won't believe is that mere humans can understand the workings of the universe (if there even is a universe ).
It's classic human arrogance and small mindedness. Just as we crafted gods in our own image we allowed ourselves to believe we can truely understand anything. QUICK_EDIT
Well, not reall TB, because if there is no point in life, that leaves a huge open window for you to create your own purpose. See, believe that there is no point, nothing matters, etc is nihilism. Nihilism is a point in your life when you realize that everything you have leanred prior is false, and basically nothing is left. One may remain in the realm of nihilism for the rest of thier lives, but I ( and my idol Nietzshe) believe that Nihilism is something to be overcome. I think that humanity can overcome nihilism by creating it's own purpose. You're gonna die eventually, why not die after you have fulfilled whatever destiny you have chosen for yourself? (Or even along the way, to die trying is still honorable).
As for the title of this thread, I don't believe in the third, the second is merely human perspective, and the first, well, depends on how you define it. I do believe in mathematics (mathematics are seperate from science. Math can exist without science. Science is flawed because it is based within human perspective, however it is respectable because of the way it carries itself out). I also believe in cause and effect, and that every thing happens because of this. So in a way everything is destined. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
All I know is if the christains are right, I could ask for forgiveness or whatever and submit to some powerhungry god. Thus be bord in heaven for the rest of eternity. If the muslims are right im screwd, and if the budhists are right then im ok lol.
Anyways, I doubt any of them are 100% right, specially christianity. Its so funny here in SA for me. There are a shit load of christains here.
One guy said he prayed for one guy and his knee cap grew back instantly, so I said prove it lets go show me dam it!. Im yet to go, its funy really.
If Jesus dose come, you know what i'll ask: "IS THIS ALL, AFTER YOU DIE WE HAVE TO SUBMIT AND PRAISE GOD FOREVER OR BURN IN HELL....FOREVER?" " WHO CAME UP WITH THIS SHIT?" "YOU GUYS SUCK MAN"
Thats the truth though, but its highly unlikely...thank god! lol! QUICK_EDIT
It's really just randomness, probabilities, variables and such that exists. Don't forget cause and effect, chain of events and such. If you were omniscient and know what's going on around you, you could for example dodge that car that might've run you over, escaped from a terrorist bombing or whatnot. However humans are humans, just...let the matter rest.
Quote:
Destiny
Did someone call me? There's a difference between me and Fate you know >_> _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Science and mathematics will never be truly right as they are the effect of an imperfect cause, namely vertebrate mammals of the simian order who have been refined by environment due to natural selection. We are uniquely suited to this earth, to this atmosphere, to these species. Evolution has not instilled in us the ability to comprehend great things, for the reason that it simply is not necessary for survival. What is (an advantage) has been developed as our crowning acheivement, sentience.
Unless we are all bio-engineered and conditioned from youth to understand the workings of the universe we never will, and even then there is a slim chance we would.
Simply put, humans are surprisingly, simple, paranoid creatures. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Mathematics is a concept, and a concept that exists with or without us. Science is a tool used to gain understanding of how things work. We have an understanding of mathematics, we did not truely invent it. Mathematics is absolute and perfect, however our understanding of it is not due to our physical capacities.
(how humanity understands the universe) The way I see it: religion<science.....I almost want to put philosophy as greater than science, but I must think a great deal about that first. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:26 am Post subject:
Careful not to generalize..
it's important to recognize that Christianity and science don't contend.
( I can''t speak for other religions as I haven't studied them in depth. Also, not mistake Christianity with "creationism", which is not religion)
Christianity is a lifestyle and a practice. I explained all that in the shrimp thread.
"The Bible tells how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go"
-Galileo
I don't want to get further into that conversation though, as it's already been had many times before on PPM.
What you said about purpose, Dafool I guess your view is, is it better to make your own purpose or find one that exists.. My personal belief might be actually a meld of them both.
I find a purpose to life in Christianity, though admittedly not all parts of it are black and white. In that case I apply it in the most practical and sensible matter I can imagine. Perhaps in that sense is how I would create my own purpose, as I test what I've learned to what I see. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
According to my views, yes, you can still become a christian, just as long as you realizie it is not a universal truth, and only your own personal purpose. Now, I thought about that when I was originally thinking about creating your own purpose for existence, and it struck me; what if a person decides to have as thier purpose the things which they have suspended to achieve nihilism? Now, this full circle is quite ironic but still equally legitamit, as long as the individual, as I have said above, accepts that his or her new purpose is only that, a purpose and not a truth. All the contradictions that arise from that, well, they can exist as long they are happy. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
A brief history.
L Ron Hubbard begins to exist
develops
becomes a (famous) scifi writer
famously says the easiest way to make money is to found a religion
does a little more scifi
conveniently founds a religion
bases this religion on what was obviously a discarded plot for a previous novel dropped as "too retarded". He says that a gazillion years ago when we lived in caves and were beating each other with sticks for food, some alien dude pulled off a massive invasion of somewhere, froze everyone he didn't like in made up scientific compound X then dropped tem into volcanoes on earth. He then said their souls floating round cause all confusion and to stop it you have too... oh, wait. He didn't write that far, just give him your money. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy:
"Albert Einstein once famously said 'God does not play dice with the universe'. Actually, according to new research it seems he does."
Whether we believe God is an omnipresent being or merely a scientific quirk, I think we can all agree on that one, sometimes stuff does seem very random indeed. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
I'm in the zone of the sads.Anybody wanna join?
j/k.But I have to say it,sometimes I'm simply not in the mood normal people should be...not to mention,I'm ztyping cynical.I haven't cried for years.I mean it.Even when my greatgrandmother died,I didn't cry,reason why I felt bad,but didn't cry. QUICK_EDIT
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Yes, I am an atheist FYI...
