Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:11 am Post subject:
C+C IV
The title of this thread is a nice mockery/merging of the C+C fetish oldfans have and the IV from Jurassic Park IV.
Now with that out of the way, I would like to post this, to enlighten some of you, most particularly the trolls here who insist on raging to the point of bursting blood vessels and crushing the heads of kittens. C&C seems to be going the way of the MMORTS(yes). I can see it, You can see it, the creepy bald guy with the mustache can see it. There is no denying it unless you're perfectly high on PCP, which I can't blame some of you if you take it. It eases the pain of these C&C4 screenshots.
However, this idea was not a new idea at all. Rather, it is an idea Westwood made.
Oh yes, Westwood Studios. Not EALA or EARO (Electronic Arts Rip Offs), or even God came up with this. This was Westwood's idea. Lets backtrack a little bit in C&C Time here. Immediately after Firestorm, WWLV(The creators of TD+) began to plan out the next step in C&C history. Instead of another RTS, they took a departure in plans, shifting to a MMORTS. Essentially what C&C4 is. The idea of Continuum was that it would take place in the post Firestorm world and pick up right after CABAL's 'demise'. I'm not pulling this out of my ass either, the developers themselves discussed this on Petro's forums. "Continuum was the MMO working title. I still like that one a lot. " The game would act as filler between C&C2(TS) and C&C3. Sadly, Continuum died during WWP's development of Red Alert 2, Yuri's Revenge.
"WWv1 started right after Firestorm shipped, and we voluntarily stopped it to work on Continuum. All existing design docs were given to WWP for ideas for RA2 / Yuris. Some of the units in Yuris are modified versions of that first C&C3 design. "
Don't trust Wikipedia? Go read the sources down at the bottom, links to the Petro forums with the discussion.
Anyway, the point of this whole discussion is this. EALA is not pulling this out of their ass. C&C4 is being pulled out of Westwood's corpse, strapped to a gurney and blasted with 20,000 volts of electricity. Somewhere right now, Doctor Frankenstein, or Adam Isgreen is screaming "Its ALIVE!". So please, before bashing EALA for making this up and yanking the whole thing out of their asses... Blame Westwood.
tl;dr C&C4 is a rehash of C&C Continuum, a Westwood created MMORTS, stop blaming EA, goddamnit. QUICK_EDIT
I feel like C&C4 will be like C&C3. In my opinion C&C3 is to competitive and made on the "advice" of "pro RTS gamers", it feels more like a Blizzard game than a C&C game..
I don't like the C&C3 FMV's because they are too "movie like" and has "celebrity actors" they looked like they were taken right out of a modern sci-fi movie! And before you begin saying TS was the same I'll agree on that but when I saw the TS FMVs for the first time I hadn't seen many movies and thats why I like them a little...except that "you" was not the commander anymore..so that is actually a plus to the C&C3 FMV's..
Now, don't come to me saying that I don't like the game because of the EA logo. I actually like Generals, I have many games with the EA logo, like the Battlefield series...well the BF series went downwards after Battlefield 2...and Nuclear Strike.
Now for C&C4, from what I have heard this is what I dislike about it:
-Population cap
-No bases
-No harvesters
-No CY's
-No sidebar
Does this sound like a "Tiberium Series" C&C game? I think not...however it may be a good game but I suspect that it wouldn't have much of a "C&C spirit"....but I can't judge I game I have not even played yet...
(Notice how little of this post is actually dedicated to C&C4? XD)
ugh, I'm going to bed before I write more crap that makes little sense... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:50 am Post subject:
I'm looking forward to C&C4. I like that they're trying stuff that's different , rather than just clone C&C3 with more mechs, and lasers.
I know by now we'll never get a game like what Tiberian Sun was in its day, but that won't limit it from being enjoyable in its own right. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
the reason most people dislike the approach is that it's not an RTS game, its a different game , and they don
#t like the continuation with the number "4" behind it because they ripped it out of what cnc was, a strategy game, we played strategy game and were used to it to play a god damn strategy game.
if people wanted to play an RPG they play an RPG if people want to play a cnc based RPG game they should make a standalone series just like WW did to differ from the main course wich always was a strategy game.
take this as example, Doom, doom 2, doom 3 well what about having doom 4? as sidescroller....or strategy game even? don't you think it would piss off fans of the shooter series?
because its an entirely different game, the approach EA did is inf act turning a strategy game into an entirely different game mechanic we aren't used to it or don't want to play, we want a strategy game, wich sure can be evolved and technicially improved and have features no other game has. every thing is possible, but turning it into a halfbreed different game isn't really what most people expected.
and this volgin, unlike your masterpiece godlike opinion, is in fact something not evcery fan agrees with, having a different game.
why not making it stand alone like renegade because it was a shooter?
making it simple "world of tiberium" or whatever.
that would make it entirely different and would appeal the people, but progressing forcefully the story to an end with a game we aren't used to is...bitter or bittersweet, not what we have waited 15 years for, well for a great part of us. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
What they're doing doesn't seem C&C, now the MMO part is an idea that I see as way unstable. Some want it, some hate it. The "experience" seems like a good idea despite being a little odd for C&C though they did something similar in AOE3 but not like this, I gotta say I'm looking forward to C&C4 but I will NEVER EVER be able to, in my heart, actually say that it is a C&C game. QUICK_EDIT
To me, C&C 4 is still as much a C&C game as WOW is a Warcraft game or Halo Wars, a Halo game. I believe genres should be looked at separately because the idea of something having to absolutely conform to one genre or media would be extremely restrictive or narrow-minded, like saying Dune II is blasphemous to the first Dune game by focusing solely on strategy and leaving out all the adventure gaming elements.
What EA is doing doesn't seem RTS to me, but it's still definitely C&C, as is indicated by the presence of elements from the series like GDI, Nod and Tiberium. I'm not going to pretend it isn't a C&C game just because it's RTT rather than RTS. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Too lazy to reply to everything right now but, blubb, that is not my opinion. sorry, I fact checked that shit. Not opinion. ^_~ _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
if you indirectly answer my post you've missunerstood me.
i'm not saying it's not a cnc game i'm saying it's a different sort of game and it's simply not right to put a number behind it instead of seperating it just like blizzard does.
they do indeed say that WOW is warcraft but they don't make it warcraft 4, thats the point.
EA simply says it's command & conqquer 4, bang ending the RTS line of that story, instead of saying it's "world of tiberium" or shit like that.
even westwood did that with continuum, it wasn't cnc 3 no it was continuum. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
it's simply not right to put a number behind it instead of seperating it just like blizzard does.
I'd rather reserve that argument for the whole "it was never numbered to begin with" issue (as in the 3rd game should not be called 'C&C 3' since TS was never called 'C&C 2') rather than saying "number in the title = absolutely must be an RTS".
Plus, RTT and RTS have quite a lot of core similarities especially in the interface and controls, heck most companies out there market RTTs as "RTS". It's not surprising really that EA wants to stick to the naming tradition used in C&C 3. Alternate title styles would probably fit 'spinoff' games better (eg. Halo Reach and ODST not following the number system to be called Halo 0 and Halo 2.5 respectively).
C&C 4 would have to be extremely radically different, like say being a FPS or a pure RPG in order to qualify having a different title style. Look at DOW, the first game was RTS , the second, RTT, and yet the sequel was named "DOWII" nonetheless instead of going for an alternate title. Like I said, RTS and RTT are still regarded (and for good reason) by many game developers to be closely related as opposed to 2 clearly distinct genres. Also, like it or hate it, it really is up to the devs on how they wanna name their games. Halo ODST despite being every bit as much an RTS as the other titles wasn't called Halo 2.5 for example.
blubb wrote:
even westwood did that with continuum, it wasn't cnc 3 no it was continuum.
They couldn't use the C&C 3 title because:
1. They never planned to have a number system. TS wasn't called C&C 2, and Westwood's working title for the game was Tiberian Twilight.
2.Even if they had planned on calling it C&C 3, their "C&C 3" was a traditional RTS, a separate game from the Continuum MMO. Obviously 2 games could not have the same title. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:22 am Post subject:
Tore wrote:
I don't like the C&C3 FMV's because they are too "movie like" and has "celebrity actors" they looked like they were taken right out of a modern sci-fi movie! And before you begin saying TS was the same I'll agree on that but when I saw the TS FMVs for the first time I hadn't seen many movies and thats why I like them a little...except that "you" was not the commander anymore..so that is actually a plus to the C&C3 FMV's..
Say like, oh, James Earl Jones in TS? It suffered from the same "problems" C&C3 did.
Quote:
I'd rather reserve that argument for the whole "it was never numbered to begin with" issue (as in the 3rd game should not be called 'C&C 3' since TS was never called 'C&C 2') rather than saying "number in the title = absolutely must be an RTS".
Are you sure about that? The first preview I read of TS numbered it and the comments from the devs named it as C&C2 at times. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
First time I saw the title I was like WTF, A C&C Intraveinous Drip?! (that bag on a stick thimng from the hospitals) I've got enough RTS in my blood without an extra 1/4 litre thanks! _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Well C&C was never EAs game. Personally I think that if another team just picks up a franchise theyre obviously gonna do it their way, since theyre different people. QUICK_EDIT
Westwood named the C&C's internally, but never commercially (with that I mean on the box of the game or in the game manual). RA was C&C 0, TD was C&C 1 and TS was C&C 2. Westwood never changed the direction of C&C from RTS to RTT or MMO or whatever, considering C&C Continuum was going to be followed up by C&C Incursion (which'd be an RTS again).
I personally can't say I'm even slightly disappointed of anything in C&C4's screenshots whatsoever, since I really didn't have any expectations. The fact the gameplay is different doesn't bother me either (the fact you could build from multiple factories in TW already made the gameplay quite different to begin with), maybe it' ll be fun... We'll see.
Maybe the C+C story will even be given an interesting twist; I say C+C story because there's no point in seeing it as being part of the same story as RA1, TD and TS... The stories surely have things in common, but considering the stories don't even have the same writers (they don't even seem to have the same style), they can't be the same story.
The movie-like aspects of the FMVs in TS really weren't a bad thing, since they were kept serious for the most part. Agreed there were some cheesy moments in it, but those didn't overshadow everything else...
In C&C3 it's harder to take the acting in the FMVs serious, even with all those "great" actors. The way they speak seems to be unrealistic/exaggerated or whatever you wanna call it, which makes it feel childish to me... It might've been the same with Umagon in TS, but I didn't get that feeling at all with Solomon or even Slavik during the TS FMVs. Kane was balancing on the edge, but just on the "save" side, but in C&C3 they decided to pull him over.
Know how adults often exaggerate everything with a silly voice when talking to little kids? That's how it feels to me when watching the FMVs from TW (or RA2). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
"We never (ok, except one time on accident) ever called C&C3 "Tiberium Twilight", everyone just assumed it would be named that because of Dawn / Sun for the first two, and it was initially meant as a trilogy of games about the Tiberium war, Kane, etc. I can't blame people for making the logic jump there though, it makes a lot of sense. " :V
Valdez, I for one can not wait for ODST, but I dread it will kill Halo 3 Multiplayer.
iirc WoW doesn't really have a story (I've never played it, so somebody correct me please!), compared to WC3, so it isn't numbered. You don't need WoW to understand WC 1-3 or visa versa. but C&C4 is continuing where C&C3 continued off of C&C2... and so on. So yeah, C&C4 is rather justified imo. To be honest, I don't understand the purpose of Continuum, especially since it would've continued the story. Seems rather unfair to people who don't like MMOs to have to play Continuum to get to C&C3... _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Westwood named the C&C's internally, but never commercially (with that I mean on the box of the game or in the game manual). RA was C&C 0, TD was C&C 1 and TS was C&C 2.
Tiberian Sun was actually planned to be released as Command & Conquer 2... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:39 am Post subject:
blubb wrote:
Oddly enough Tiberian Sun in germany was exactly titled Command & Conquer 3:Operation Tiberian Sun
I remember that -
on a Tiberium Wars promotional vid, they asked a German girl which C&C she liked best, she said, "three.. Tiberian Sun" _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
Because when is is one while is was none, one is is is
Anyway, in germany they probably just named RA1 C&C2 (while Westwood internally named RA1 C&C0), so they ended up naming TS C&C3 (since RA1 already took "C&C2"). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 19 May 2008 Location: Scotland, starting a Revolution Cameo: metricon. Posts:???
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject:
the version i heard was
CnC TD =1
CnC TD Covert operations =2
CnC TS =3 _________________ Creator of TS:BoB and some other things that might be good when finnished. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands! Banned: 3 times
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:
Stupid...
The tiberium conflict
Red alert
Those 2 are fine, but then they start with
Operation: Tiberian Sun
Right. Or call the games
-Tiberium Conflict
-Red Alert
-Tiberian Sun
Or
Operation: Tiberium (or something)
Operation: Red Alert
Operation: Tiberian Sun _________________ ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
Become one with your heart's desire:
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Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject:
You look too far into this. It was simply an excuse to keep the English title because they didn't know how to translate it ("Tibersche Sonne" apparently didn't sound good). The German word "Operation" just happens to be the same in English. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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C+C IV
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