I like how he's going to ignore one of the oldest community members (with the best AI around for YR), another extremely talented individual (and maker of CnC Apocalypse) and someone who's been around the wheel once or twice and knows a bad idea when he sees it.
Go flock to your n00bs. Just because they don't know a good idea from a bad one doesn't make their criticism valid.
But since all the valid criticism I offered was "shitty talk" then your mod is going to be complete garbage with shitty CnP assets. What a waste of forum thread and ModDB room. QUICK_EDIT
I like how he's going to ignore one of the oldest community members (with the best AI around for YR), another extremely talented individual (and maker of CnC Apocalypse) and someone who's been around the wheel once or twice and knows a bad idea when he sees it.
Go flock to your n00bs. Just because they don't know a good idea from a bad one doesn't make their criticism valid.
But since all the valid criticism I offered was "shitty talk" then your mod is going to be complete garbage with shitty CnP assets. What a waste of forum thread and ModDB room.
Heed these words.
Maybe you'll listen when two people say it, one after the other, with the same words? QUICK_EDIT
Because of it, I release cut version of ASM, which will be more shitty than the regular/planned one.
CnP works, yes. It's better than works made by stolen 3ds Max or stolen Adobe software.
Haha, m7 considers himself as the greatest modder! What pride! Congratulations for pride! Nothing else to say.
No n00bs, but players. There are pro players and n00bs, and newbies (which are pros or average players to be).
Modders are entirely a different category.
A modder can suck at game, probably Dark Templar X does (probably*), seeing by his lack of sense of rushes or turtling, and ensuing problems of going naval.
But I appreciate his opinion, an opinion of modder, not a bragger, even if I change nothing.
Orac, I came to listen, not to obey, some of the greatest old C&C modders.
I listen to Dark Templar X.
m7 is just bragging about. Nothing more. He can be a modder, a pro modder, a good modder. But what he presents here is a lot of pompuous short talk and no reason at all.
OmegaBolt presented nothing but an emotion. Just a feeling of disgust. "" ! = ]
A modder showing disgust!
Wow, no reasons! It's quite opposite of what Dark Templar X said.
That's why I respect Templar, he is here and now, he comments, states his reasons, even if doesn't read rules, plans of ASM at all.
And no, Moddb.com users are not suckers, they are just players. Templar, it's good to respect mod players.
And, to be sincere, I don't make this mod for great (or "the greatest", haha, following m7 advice to respect boasters) modders, but for players.
And Templar, I don't ask you to help me cut any of ASM features, but to improve the current ones.
That's the difference.
Concerning Drakon mod, you were right that he ripped terrain assets and he shouldn't even show them, promote his mod with somebody's assets.
It's just you who discussed it openly, publicly, without contacting him via PM first! There was your fault too.
Shit. Even if I despise somebody's using stolen Adobe or Max, I won't point anybody publicly, subject him to criticism in public. No! But you did it, you accused of ripping in public, instead of discussing it in private.
I know one modder (i.e. his relative) who has legal 3ds Max for sure, and it's Trak888 from Moddb. Yup, from Moddb.
Know nothing about the rest, and cheap words won't convince me.
I know, I criticised or even flamed you Dark Templar X, for what I'm sorry, and I don't say I'm right. I can be very wrong.
I just ask you (and other modders) to help me in improving the current features.
Nothing will be taken out. Nothing. I listen to you negative criticism, but not obey. An sssertive attitude. You heard of that, right? Glad to know it.
The one of best AI coders, or a great coder, who says nothing about flawed naval structure/techtree system, beginning with a difficult problem of implementing new Airpad, or just a naval version of it.
Thank you for nothing. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Regardless of all spam above ^^,when is the mod\beta coming to life?. _________________ if you need help shpping,voxeling,doing 3ds,just call me on sm.949@hotmail.com QUICK_EDIT
CnP works, yes. It's better than works made by stolen 3ds Max or stolen Adobe software.
You can't actually steal copies of 3DSMax or Adobe software (well i guess you can if you shop lift the discs), you mean copyright infringing copies. Strangely, stealing the discs will result in you having genuine licenses for the programs and would probably result in lower penalties (in the US at least) if caught that downloading them despite actually taken something from someone. That aside, how does the moral status of the copies in any way affect the result? Also, if you wish to avoid copyright infringement there are free alternatives that will probably be good enough such as blender for 3D work and GIMP for 2D work that will (with some skill) generate far better assets that CnP. QUICK_EDIT
Yup, I know that. "Stolen" meant "torrented" (in turn i.e. cracked or with a "public" key).
I try GMAX, but nothing good to show yet.
Well, that's your point, and it's important... but let's suppose that a common citizen (not police officer, etc.) has stolen somebody's car... then he rescued somebody else's from a certain death.
How would you judge him? He should be punished for the thievery, but praised for his, rather noble, action.
The same with models/graphics made with stolen (royalty not paid to the authors) programs.
SuperMario949 wrote:
Regardless of all spam above ^^,when is the mod\beta coming to life?.
Next beta? Around the end of the month, hopefully, because lately there's very little progress. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Can We just step back a Second! The Last time a Mod Argument went this far, m666 said I should die by chocking on My own Blood!(Harsh!)
I mean if Feillyne Wants to try something new, that's good, as opposed to certain mods that go "Lol Abrams everywhere"
I mean it! Calm Down! _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Because of it, I release cut version of ASM, which will be more shitty than the regular/planned one.
Release whatever you want, I really can't stop you from doing so. I mean... it is the Internet.
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CnP works, yes. It's better than works made by stolen 3ds Max or stolen Adobe software.
You haven't seen Robot Storm, Dominance, Joshy's work or MadHQ's work, have you? I rest my case.
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Haha, m7 considers himself as the greatest modder! What pride! Congratulations for pride! Nothing else to say.
He is actually really good. He's learning the more difficult task of terrain creation, which is lost on most graphical artists really. Don't bash what you don't know.
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No n00bs, but players. There are pro players and n00bs, and newbies (which are pros or average players to be).
No, I mean n00bs too. That will be at least forty percent of your player base, and that's fine. It's a large part of my projects.
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A modder can suck at game, probably Dark Templar X does (probably*), seeing by his lack of sense of rushes or turtling, and ensuing problems of going naval.
No, actually, I'm fairly decent at the vanilla game. I can rock and roll pretty hard on the game, which is exactly where my opinion is rooted. I play the tank/fodder game okay, but not like any of the "pros."
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But I appreciate his opinion, an opinion of modder, not a bragger, even if I change nothing.
You get the opinion of both: player and modder.
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Orac, I came to listen, not to obey, some of the greatest old C&C modders.
I listen to Dark Templar X.
Really, it doesn't count as 'listening' if you dismiss everything.
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And Templar, I don't ask you to help me cut any of ASM features, but to improve the current ones.
You have to accept the inevitable reality that ideas need to be cut for various reasons. Be it inability to implement, coding issues, bad hackiness to fudge something to half-work or just bad ideas. Implementing a few naval structures is not a bad idea since it would leave your main base free of clutter like for power plants. But the negative to that is that bases can extend outside the range of ground warfare, and the naval base can just whore AA units. All the scouting in the world does not prevent someone from being a turtling noob.
Quote:
Shit. Even if I despise somebody's using stolen Adobe or Max, I won't point anybody publicly, subject him to criticism in public. No! But you did it, you accused of ripping in public, instead of discussing it in private.
This is not one of those actions that goes without public knowledge. If not me, someone else would point it out later in a more public way. Then Drakon would have been totally screwed for support from the major communities.
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I know one modder (i.e. his relative) who has legal 3ds Max for sure, and it's Trak888 from Moddb. Yup, from Moddb.
ModDB has talent for FPS games, 3D RTS and others but 2D C&C? Not so much. QUICK_EDIT
Orac, I came to listen, not to obey, some of the greatest old C&C modders.
I listen to Dark Templar X.
Really, it doesn't count as 'listening' if you dismiss everything.
No, not entirely, not all. I'm just being resentful if you criticise something which tens of people approved. But does it mean I won't listen to anything?
Dark Templar X wrote:
You have to accept the inevitable reality that ideas need to be cut for various reasons. Be it inability to implement, coding issues, bad hackiness to fudge something to half-work or just bad ideas. Implementing a few naval structures is not a bad idea since it would leave your main base free of clutter like for power plants. But the negative to that is that bases can extend outside the range of ground warfare, and the naval base can just whore AA units. All the scouting in the world does not prevent someone from being a turtling noob.
Well, turtling is a matter of taste. I was a turtling player many times, and most times just because rushing and being a rusher is a way too easy, especially if the opponent is lazy.
Protecting base is hardly possible when the rival has many artillery units, or in the long run, your base will be be overridden by enemy regular and advanced units.
AA, hmmm... there will be many ways to root out a sea turtle in ASM:
1) spamming aircraft
2) spamming subs being anti-building units (yes, yes, I intend on giving a sub to Allies! So there's balance)
3) spamming artillery and trying to take out the nearest vital buildings
4) spamming ships, you will be able to build Shipyard/Subpen for $2000 and place it far enough, and what's more important, w/o need of NConYard - so you can tackle the opponent without going naval at all!
There are some disadvantages of going entirely naval:
1) slower development, naval buildings take 20% time to be 'prepared' (i.e. to be placed)
2) naval buildings cost much more money; one will run out of it faster than one can think
3) also, they take a lot more space than regular land buildings
Some advantages:
1) better Oil Derricks, providing loads of money
2) protection from short-ranged land units
3) better base defenses: they'll take much more space, but also they'll be much better armored, with greater firepower and more hps
Dark Templar X wrote:
This is not one of those actions that goes without public knowledge. If not me, someone else would point it out later in a more public way. Then Drakon would have been totally screwed for support from the major communities.
Yup, but it could be done via PM nevertheless. You know, talking to him privately first, if he disagrees, then taking it to public directly and w/o mercy.
Saves a lot of... quarrels.
The cameo from TD was converted by MMk4C01. Was too lazy to convert it myself.
Dark Templar X, the idea of navalised buildings is the latest one that actually changes anything besides looks. And as you can see from those advantages and disadvantages (which were pointed out above), it's a really rethought, thought over, and carefully examined system.
And really, I appreciate your help, be it criticising or praising or whatever. But I can't just cut an idea, which is liked by some tens of people, including myself. It'd be ridiculous.
Instead, I should realise it as best as I can. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I don't personally see much point for the alternate theater versions as buildings are just props more or less and different kinds could be just confusing the player so visual gimmick, is just that.
As for naval versions, alright looking but I would not stuck them into basic gameplay as unlike ra3, ra2 does not have so much water crossing units unless you plan redesign the unit arsenals for that.
Ideally you'd do a separate maps with gamemode where all you have is naval bases and instead of war factory you have naval yard and barracks produces swimming infantry if works fine or just airborne ones and so on.
I think main gist is that besides building overhauls, the actual gameplay to be made out of it still remains to be seen so you could elaborate on that as now its ??? unless you wanna keep the bland gameplay of original :/ QUICK_EDIT
I don't personally see much point for the alternate theater versions as buildings are just props more or less and different kinds could be just confusing the player so visual gimmick, is just that.
Yup, you're right. Just visual gimmick, but some people can be inspired by it, or just their RA2 gaming experience or knowledge will be refreshed.
Even if it's looks only, its aim is to make RA2 less boring or just more refreshing.
Anyway, game modes for different theatre buildings are planned. Id est:
* urban theatre combat (20% slower production of buildings, 20% more hitpoints for all of them, great for turtles)
* desert theatre combat (20% faster production of buildings, 20% less hitpoints for all of them, great for rushers)
* lunar theatre (most of units forbidden or tweaked)
... and so on. ;-> So no, it's "for looks" N-O-W. Only now. It will be otherwise in the final release. = )
ApolloTD wrote:
As for naval versions, alright looking but I would not stuck them into basic gameplay as unlike ra3, ra2 does not have so much water crossing units unless you plan redesign the unit arsenals for that.
Ideally you'd do a separate maps with gamemode where all you have is naval bases and instead of war factory you have naval yard and barracks produces swimming infantry if works fine or just airborne ones and so on.
I think main gist is that besides building overhauls, the actual gameplay to be made out of it still remains to be seen so you could elaborate on that as now its ??? unless you wanna keep the bland gameplay of original :/
Hmm, what a point! Yes, RA2 have less hover and air units, but ASM adds some new to the arsenal, so there are some grounds for land-naval warfare.
Yes, I plan to make Naval Only game mode.
O.o Thanks for the idea! Didn't think about making barracks/war factory. In RA3 one can't build these, but... ASM is a mod, so... ^^ If airborne/swimming infantry can come out from such barracks, the same with aircraft/helicopters from WF, it'll be perfect. ;->
Well, in the end, nothing matters but deeds and the inheritance one left for others. We'll see how it looks and plays in-game, instead of theorising how the gameplay is sh*t without even trying it.
Indeed, thank you very much for the opinion! Helped me to rethink some of the decisions.
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject:
WONKEYYYYYY
Lunar: Allied war factory looks wierd, too thin. One yuri vxl has bad normals
Desert: Allied barracks look wierd, conyard looks fucked, warfactory looks to thin, airpad looks wierd
Urban: Allied Ore refinery looks wonkey.
Everything else is perrfect except it needs shadows, I think the theatre building thing is wierd; but I think they would be diferent designs made around the world, wouldn't that cause problems with the cameos. QUICK_EDIT
Yup, Allied desert theatre buildings will be redesigned. Plus that urban ore ref, too.
Allied ConYard doesn't look f*cked, it's just the animation, which gets in the way of the basic graphic. Should be adjusted. The same with other ConYards.
Hmm, AFAIK, cameos can be made only for snow/winter theatre versions.
Thanks for remarks, many of these were already reported (the final version will be a lot different than this 'demo'). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Sorry for the double post, but lately I totally went nuts. ^^ I.e. after the discovery of game modes (well, I did know about their existence, but didn't deem them important).
This Unicorn Heavy Tank (made by Ronco, a voxel which should be spotlighted, but it wasn't, BTW! Yes, here on PPM!) will replace Grizzly Tank, making the urban warfare even slower and more strategic. And it's only a tip of iceberg...
... watch out for lunar warfare updates!
Not only units, their stats and designations will change, but also general rules and building costs (as stated above ).
PS/Edited: also infantry stats changes and reskinning planned. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I like most of the stuff I'm seeing. However, naval SWs etc. should be made underwater and look a lot different than their land counterparts. Think RA1 Nuke silo, only under water.
And if this mod gets a proper AI, then it would be magnificent. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere in the great nothingness
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:20 am Post subject:
Idea for resource gathering in naval mode:In Warcraft 2 there was oil patches in the sea,you sent the tanker unit it builded there an oil platform and shipped the oil back to foundry shipyard etc.To make such thing in Ra2:Youll have an naval refinery(an oil refinery),from there an harvester comes out and deploys over oil patch OR you build seperate Oil Platform Construction ships from Shipyard that go deploy on them.Another idea is to place Derricks by map builder as inremovable but destructable(they reconstruct automatically after while when destroyed)neutral buildings on the map.Dont know if its possible to make deployable unit deploys only when over object(or specific terrain or doodad).
Another idea for this:Naval harvester comes over oil derrick(same as Ore patch generating structure in land games) in the sea(should be designed as an pipe entrance at sea surface)uses normally harvesting mechanic,when full goes back.Aha this seems makeable.
Only ideas are:Not only buildings,units appeareance too should be vary every theater,Desert camo,Urban camo,hover versions of tracked vehicles up the moon,spaceship yard(flying Aircraft Carrier) there etc.(these are hard to make)
I suggest you to fix Yuri Airpad graphic and improve player coloring of Yuri Aircraft.And Yuri side is underpowered can barely match with the rivals. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I like most of the stuff I'm seeing. However, naval SWs etc. should be made underwater and look a lot different than their land counterparts. Think RA1 Nuke silo, only under water.
And if this mod gets a proper AI, then it would be magnificent.
Thanks, and thank you very much for the idea.
I'm thinking about changing general looks of naval buildings. Power Plants and base defenses, technically, are more advanced and powerful than their land counterparts, but looks don't reflect that.
It should be changed by making naval buildings look more advanced than land ones. I'll go for it, when there will be time.
I have DCoder's tools, looked at AI coding, seems pretty simple, but also enough time-consuming.
As I say and said, only Medium + Hard AI will be coded, so the easy computer/AI oppponent will be crippled (as it should be).
Eagle 11 wrote:
Idea for resource gathering in naval mode:In Warcraft 2 there was oil patches in the sea,you sent the tanker unit it builded there an oil platform and shipped the oil back to foundry shipyard etc.To make such thing in Ra2:Youll have an naval refinery(an oil refinery),from there an harvester comes out and deploys over oil patch OR you build seperate Oil Platform Construction ships from Shipyard that go deploy on them.Another idea is to place Derricks by map builder as inremovable but destructable(they reconstruct automatically after while when destroyed)neutral buildings on the map.Dont know if its possible to make deployable unit deploys only when over object(or specific terrain or doodad).
AFAIK, it isn't possible, but dunno if engineers can be tweaked to capture neutral buildings. I think it'd result in epic game crashes, after trying some different terrain/movement zone (etc.) stuff. ^^
Hmm... maybe jumpjeting engineers... but it'd be a bit unbalanced (unless the speed was decreased).
Besides, ASM won't use any patches, maybe except RockPatch or Ares (RP is very possible if I find a workaround for not having fans compelled to download the patch -_-).
Eagle 11 wrote:
Another idea for this:Naval harvester comes over oil derrick(same as Ore patch generating structure in land games) in the sea(should be designed as an pipe entrance at sea surface)uses normally harvesting mechanic,when full goes back.Aha this seems makeable.
Hmmm, is it codeable/possible? (It's a question to modders reading it.) B/c I don't think so. = /
Eagle 11 wrote:
Only ideas are:Not only buildings,units appeareance too should be vary every theater,Desert camo,Urban camo,hover versions of tracked vehicles up the moon,spaceship yard(flying Aircraft Carrier) there etc.(these are hard to make)
Well, ArtMD.ini + mode inis magic can easily insert/add new cameos. It's no problem, it's just a matter of time.
Eagle 11 wrote:
I suggest you to fix Yuri Airpad graphic and improve player coloring of Yuri Aircraft.And Yuri side is underpowered can barely match with the rivals.
Yuri Airpad? What's wrong with it?
Hmmm, general colouring of Yuri Aircraft should be corrected. There are some pink dots, AFAIK, they have to go (and go very far away). ;-D
Yuri one? Does it really? His PSI troops can mind-control units after some seconds' intervals without dropping any mind-control over already "mindwashed" ones. IMHO, it should be overpowered.
Thank you for your opinions. Naval buildings should be changed.
Oh, and yes, I've forgotten. There's a way to make "oil" gathering thingies, but requires many sacrifices.
I.e. sacrificing one building armor (steel?), and making oil transporters capable of mind-control neutral oil platform/rig buildings can allow one to get a steady income of cash. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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