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TMP Studio 1.0 Released!
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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just came to this topic to install this on my laptop..

I forgot what a dick Icy was. PPM has gotten so much better since he did his little rage quit

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Edge
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you can message Nikademis Von Hisson, he is allowed to distribute it.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or reread this thread's first page, Aro putted it up. #Tongue

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=======================
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=======================
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Edge
Grenadier


Joined: 26 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, didn't see that. lol

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for uploading Aro. I didn't understand the bullshit floating around this program before either.

If you make a reasonable modding tool it should be released instead of teasing the damn community. Smile

Though TMP Studio is buggy as ztype.

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I guess there is no code published so we can't fix this?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

correct, no public code.
But i predict that this tool and XCC TMP Editor will become useless at some point this year. Wink

btw, does OpenRA use TMPs for the terrain as well?
How does OpenRA handle/differ between the rectangular shaped cells from TD/RA1 and the diamond perspective cells from TS/RA2? Does it support both?

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I remember reading that OpenRA doesn't (or didn't?) support isometric cells yet.
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
But i predict that this tool and XCC TMP Editor will become useless at some point this year. Wink

I'll look forward to the fulfillment of your prophecy then Razz

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
btw, does OpenRA use TMPs for the terrain as well?

yes
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

How does OpenRA handle/differ between the rectangular shaped cells from TD/RA1 and the diamond perspective cells from TS/RA2? Does it support both?

Isometric cells are not yet supported at all, but Sleipnir promised to clean up our coordinate system and add optional isometry someday.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Surely there must be a better system for terrain than TMP, at least removing the colour limits? I guess it was all designed originally to support RA1 as best as possible but removing the limitations would surely be nicer.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TMPs are good imo. They don't have a lot of redundant data and are nicely compressed.
The only issue is the palette, which could be fixed by allowing different TMPs of the same theater to use different palettes. e.g. an ini key for the TileSets in tem.ini/snow.ini.

A radical change like now supporting png or other fileformats for TMPs would be too much imo.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
A radical change like now supporting png or other fileformats for TMPs would be too much imo.

IMO it'd be nice to support both modern formats and TMPs. If someone is creating a new game with the engine, (s)he shouldn't have to deal with limited color palettes.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

true
but i fear that by supporting PNGs, the amount of data that needs to be stored for a map will increase by the factor 10 or even more.

Also PNGs don't work directly. A special custom format is still needed that can hold the additional data for TerrainType, SlopeType, Destroyable Terrain, TileHeight etc

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We have a GUI Tileset Builder that can import a palette indexed PNG file and spit out the TMP set with tileset defintions in our modding SDK.

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raminator
Commander


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Bierkasten

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
true
but i fear that by supporting PNGs, the amount of data that needs to be stored for a map will increase by the factor 10 or even more.

Also PNGs don't work directly. A special custom format is still needed that can hold the additional data for TerrainType, SlopeType, Destroyable Terrain, TileHeight etc


? why ?
having a standard png with some transparent color and adding all other info to yaml-files
sounds pretty "easy" to me.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Storing the terraintype in a TMP for a single tile=1 byte in the tmp itself.
Storing the terraintype in an additional YAML file for a single tile around 30 bytes. Identifier, Header, additional nomenclature and formatting blow this unnecessarily up.
e.g. you have to specify
Code:
filename:     myterrain.png
# of Tiles:        3
Tile1:
    TerrainType:   Clear
    SlopeType:  Flat
    Height:  0
Tile2:
    TerrainType:   Rough
    SlopeType:  slopeNW (can be also stored as an integer from 0-7)
    Height:  1


Doing this for 2000 TMPs with 1-20 Tiles each makes the YAML about 600.000 Byte big.
Now take this times 3 for additional slopetype and height and you end up with almost 2MB just for the additional data. Reading that amount of data, synchronizing it with the corresponding terrainfiles (pngs) and other stuff makes this unnecessary slow and complicated.

Not to speak of the later bugfixing, when you have to scan through a MByte big text file, searching for the single false set tile information.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you mean cells instead of tiles?

I agree that from a modder's perspective it would be very inconvenient to have to manually code every tile to tell the game which cell is what terrain type, height, which slope, etc.

Maybe a 16 bit TMP format could be added (along with an editor that can actually handle them of course)?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cells, tiles are for me the same when it comes to TMPs. A tmp can consist of one ore more tiles (cells).

16bit TMP format sounds interesting. I assume you then want each pixel to point on an index of a palette that supports 65536 colors?
Maybe better would be to directly have each pixel store the color instead. and then go up to 24 bit for a full 8bit per R,G and B value. Not sure how you then want to store transparent pixel though (e.g. in extra graphics). Going up to 32 bit with an additional alpha channel would make this quite big again.

But with 32 bit full alpha support, some really nice things could be done.
e.g. a semi transparent metal grid gangway above a normal ground tile. It would be a single TMP with 2 tiles on the same x,y position but on different heights. The upper tile having the metal grid style using alpha.

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Matthias M.
Stealth Laser Trooper


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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