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Question about making a single-player mission
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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject:  Question about making a single-player mission Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I want to make a group of soldiers that you need to kill in order to reveal a certain zone around a waypoint. How do I do it?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-Place the infantry on the map
-create a new trigger called "Soldiers killed" or something
--House of the trigger = house of the units
--Type=1 (FinalSun offers only "0-Standard" and "2-Repeating", so you have to type it in)
--add an Event with Eventtype "48 Destroyed by anything"
--add an Action with Actiontype 17 or 18 (reveal around waypoint); not sure which of the two works better
-double click on each infantry and enter in the Attached tag field the "Soldiers killed" trigger

The 1 on the triggertype is an AND relation, so it makes sure you have to kill all of the soldiers.
0 would cause the trigger to fire already when the first soldier is killed and then not again
2 would cause the trigger to fire every time when one of the soldiers is killed

\topic moved to mapping discussion

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just quickly, I've never heard of or seen type 1 triggers used, what does the AND actually do?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As described above it's simply an AND relation, meaning all attached objects need to fulfill the Event of the trigger.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's extremely useful, I thought for some reason it was an OR, so the trigger would be random.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

0- OR relation; only one attached object needs to fulfill the Event; Trigger fires only once
1- AND relation; all attached objects need to fulfill the Event at the same time; Trigger fires only once
2- OR relation; every time one attached object fulfills the Event, the Trigger fires; Trigger fires multiple times

maybe even 3 is possible. Something like
3- AND relation; all attached objects fulfill the Event; trigger fires multiple times
e.g. 3 powerplants, every time all 3 of them are damaged/attacked, a nuke should be launched.

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Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, has anyone ever tried 3? Just having the AND none repeat key now available I find very useful #Tongue .

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Q45
Tiberian Fiend


Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Tampere, Finland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Damn, I never knew about that AND relation, this is super useful!

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Neither did I, and I've been making maps for this game for about 10 years...

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Morpher
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The good news is I've nearly finished the machine to combine LKO with SuperJoe to have Super LKJoe. No more mysteries.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ I like it!

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Morpher wrote:
The good news is I've nearly finished the machine to combine LKO with SuperJoe to have Super LKJoe. No more mysteries.

Nice. Please let Hyper join our Symbiogenesis so we finally have the Super Hyper LKJoe, who can also instantly alter the exe based on our research. Very Happy

After that we'll assimilate Banshee to gain control over PPM.
Then we assimilate Aro...
then Morpher...

We are the Borg. Modding-Resistance is futile. We will add your modding and hacking distinctiveness to our own. Your mod will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

First the corn fields, now this...

Additionally I just tested using Trigger Type 1 and it indeed works! I also tried using 3 and 4 hoping to perhaps get the repeating effect but it didn't seem to work.

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ChronoSeth
Sergeant


Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's weird that Final Sun doesn't offer 1 in the trigger type field. This has been around since TD, and I'm pretty sure that it has also used in a lot of TS's missions.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FinalSun does offer 1 in the Tag Editor under "Unknown" however.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm actually still astonished how much knowledge Matthias Wagner possessed when he wrote the map editor.
It's not only knowledge about all the different file formats, but also triggers, tags, scripts, ini-keys, ai etc etc. And all this already back in 1999 to 2001.

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm pretty sure he had some help of Westwood. After all, it's the 'official' map editor for Tiberian Sun/Red Alert 2

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RP wrote:
I'm pretty sure he had some help of Westwood. After all, it's the 'official' map editor for Tiberian Sun/Red Alert 2

AFAIK it was unofficial until Westwood paid him so they could use it for RA2. After the release, he continued developing it for a bit (adding Yuri's Revenge support, for instance) releasing the current, unofficial FA2YR. I could be wrong though.

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How else would he know what type of things to use, what parameter defines a waypoint, repeating triggers etc. No-one told him what it was, only WW could've done so.

Doesn't take away his tool kinda fails in various ways though.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, many things can be found out by testing and comparing campaign missions. Others are similar to tiberian dawn mapping, like the OR/AND relation stuff of this topic.

In the FinalSun info you can also see a lot of other people helping him. Like Olaf for the whole file handling (mix, tmp, shp etc),


The fact that FinalSun isn't complete only supports that WW didn't helped him. Else he wouldn't have left out some of these basic things.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The fact that FinalSun isn't complete only supports that WW didn't help him. Else he wouldn't have left out some of these basic things.

Westwood helping him and it being incomplete are not mutually exclusive.

For instance, did I ever tell you about the absolutely complete game Westwood did? Tiberian Sun, I recall it was named. Oh boy, did it have everything implemented! I mean, there were these dynamic environments, and you could get the mutants onto your side by bartering supplies, and the threat rating system! Wow. It was great.


So yeah... Westwood helping him doesn't prevent the program from being flawed in a number of key respects (TD, RA, TS, RA2, Ren).

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