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Kairunotabi Questions
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kairunotabi
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Joined: 07 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject:  Kairunotabi Questions
Subject description: In Ares
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How to make a unit when bought will drain power instead of cash? The unit will require a certain amount of power just like buildings to be built/train.

Last edited by kairunotabi on Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Krow
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can't. WW didn't code those logics in.

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So Cost=0 with a verrrry high (or was it low) BuildTimeMultiplier (to make it construct as long as priced buildings) won't work on this?

Unless I'm mistaken on his request... I assume Topic Starter wants a building that is free but still providing power?

Only drawback I see though is selling it won't give you money at all.

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kenosis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a 0x0 building with a free unit?

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for the confusion guys, what I mean't is that a unit will be some kind of a moving building requiring power to work.

The cost will be zero but will require a certain amount of power to move and without a power plant, the units will automatically shutdown, unable to move.

In laymans term, a robotic unit who depends on power plants to move, attack, etc...

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right, ever taken a look at the robot tanks?
IIRC if the owner has low power, the robot tanks shut down.

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kenosis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no, he wants each "robot tank" to cost some power.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^exactly Very Happy

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RP
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kairunotabi wrote:
In laymans term, a robotic unit who depends on power plants to move, attack, etc...


This says something different though. Other than that, units cannot have Power=-X

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, let's stick to making a robot tank to cost power

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe put up a blueprint for it in Ares? I'm sure other people are also interested in logic similar to this.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Make the unit a deployer and drain power only when deployed.

It's quite unlogic to have a moving unit use power from stationary sources. Does it carry a long extension cord with it reaching back to the base?

Another better logic would be the Charge logic from the mobile EMP from TS.
Then have a unit with a power meter like the passenger pips and every shot using up a bit of the stored power.
Additional keys then set how fast the power recharges and how much is restored with every restore-step.

example for new keys

unit keys
PipScale=Charge
MaxCharge=1500
StartCharge=0 ;when the unit is build/spawned, it starts with this amount of power
RechargeRate=20 ;timeunits (every 20 frames in this case)
RechargeAmount=5 ;5 power units are given at each recharge step

weapon keys
Damage=
DrainCharge=100 ;takes 100 charge units away from the unit
ROF=

weapon can only be fired when more than 100 power units are stored in the unit.

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ImP_RuLz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Charge logic doesnt work in RA2
the only way i can see this working is unit X deploys into 0x0 building A which gives a free unit Y. when unit Y is destroyed its destroy animation spawns an infantry which has a suicide weapon and can only attack the building A. #Tongue
if 0x0 buildings cant be auto targetted or something then im sorry Very Happy

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So Topic Starter pretty much wants the power logic used by the Laser Crusaders in Zero Hour?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ImP_RuLz wrote:
Charge logic doesnt work in RA2

I know. I meant this as an alternative for adding the Power key to Units in Ares. The Charge logic would then work similar to the Ammo logic but giving in future some more possibilities for further enhancements.

e.g.
Unit has Charge logic. When weapon is activated (deployweapon like mobile EMP) the unit raises a shield over a 4 cell radius area. Enemy fire upon the shield drains the Charge of the unit by the amount of Damage of the hit, while every friendly unit is protected under the shield.

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
So Topic Starter pretty much wants the power logic used by the Laser Crusaders in Zero Hour?

First thing I thought of when I read the OP's post.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright! I think the unit-cost-power logic is yet to be implemented so I've submitted it as a blueprint for ARES.

Here's another question:

Is it possible to make a building with a sensory field from which units can only move inside it, and if the building is destroyed, the units will shutdown?



The first image shows that the units can only move inside the sensor field of a building.

The second image explains that units can't go out of that sensor field.

The third image shows that the building is destroyed and all of the units inside its sensor field is shutdown.

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One way I could see that being done is giving a Building with a Dummy Weapon that applies EMP to your own Units (Using Custom Armor to make a more defined control on which units that can only work on that Armor)

Then giving the building minimum range. to simulate the "Energy Field" as when the unit leaves the zone it will get EMP'd by the building.

Only drawback I see is HOW you'll get that unit there. Granted you could use FreeUnit on the Structure but that only limits it to 1 unit spawned

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Nikademis Von Hisson
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So the unit is free? only cost power? that makes no sense what so ever. electronics are not free; diodes, resistors, capacitors, ic chips, etc....

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FreeUnit is only used by the Refineries to spawn a Harvester.

You could explain the Unit popping up as part of the Building, like those Turrets that you can build for Nod in Kane's Wrath which come from a parent building.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The building will act like a Pylon for Units with limited field of range in which the units can only move, it is also a barracks.

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Last edited by kairunotabi on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:05 am; edited 2 times in total

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The building will act like a Power Transmitter with limited range from which the units can only move, the building will also act as the main barracks.

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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So its a Production Facility/Defense Building then?

You'll also need a DeathWeapon that kills off the Spawned Unit when the Building

Another drawback I found out on my idea is that you can't put 2 of the same buildings near each otherwise destroying one Transmitter near another one will destroy the other Transmitter's Drone.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Another drawback I found out on my idea is that you can't put 2 of the same buildings near each otherwise destroying one Transmitter near another one will destroy the other Transmitter's Drone.


Why would that happen? Confused

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Because the Custom Deathweapon would have a warhead that targets all units with the same armor. So if the DeathWeapon has verses set to hit unit with say... "RobotArmor" all units hit within the weapons damage area will receive damage from it.

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EricAnimeFreak
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm you know, this is how I would do this:

Normal mode Robot has a speed and damage which is extremely low causing it to be virtually useless.

When it deploys into its charging state, it auto attacks itself but is vulnerable. This auto atatck activates a Attach effect from warhead, increasing it's damage and speed for X amount of time, eventually reverting back to a slow useless unit unless deployed again to recharge.

For fairness, bot the deployed and undeployed state could require power, via Poweredby= logic. You could also have the deployed state minus power from your power grid.

Using a hand made deploy animation, like on siege chopper, you could have a solar panel, cord etc, take time for the charge, as well as add to the cool effect.

While this is not perfect it creates a unit which uses charge logic.

As for a power transmitter. Transmitters could send power to units in the same way using attach effects to bring the units back to normal speed. Of course the transmitters would only work for their unique armortype.

Both systems could be employed to create a way for them to always be active, via transmitters, or when away from base using their charge banks.

So your units might have:
Base speed of 1 but 10 while powered.
200 base health and 400 while powered.
Base might deal 15 per 40 frames, but powered will deal 75.

AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=10
AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=2
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=5
AttachEffect.Delay=X Length of charge. Towers charge could be less, and have better stats since their not on batteries.

Giving your unit three effective states: Low Battery, Charged, Powered.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that's a perfect explaination! Alright, I'll try it up and will reply back after a few trial. Thank you! Very Happy

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EricAnimeFreak
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Realized I made an error with what I told you.

AttachEffect.Delay= should have been AttachEffect.Duration= (integer)
   The duration of the effect in frames.

Should also be noted that you might want a charged animation.

[Section]►AttachEffect.Animation= (AnimationType)

   The optional animation to play on the affected unit. The animation is attached to the unit and moves along with it.

Also if transmitters, and charging are both used, the effects most likely will stack together on your units. Which would be ridiculous as it would give you 4 states.

How the states could look:

Underpowered, unit is extremely weak.

Base Stats no modification.
Strength=200
Speed=1
Damage=1

On charged battery, unit is stronger then when on low battery.

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=2
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=7
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=50

Strength=400
Speed=7
Damage=50

Powered, unit is as strong or stronger then on charged battery and does not require charged battery.

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=3
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=9
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=60

Strength=600
Speed=9
Damage=60

And Finally, Overcharged, in this case the unit is both charged and powered and gets the benefits from both attached effects.

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=3
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=9
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=60

+

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=2
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=7
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=50

Strength=?
Speed=?
Damage=?

I'm not quite sure how they would stack. Either one effect is applied first then is increased again or it adds the base again to the current stats. That's a question for Graion.

Anyways good luck man, and let me know how it turns out!

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now I know why I'm getting an error message because of the AttachEffect.Delay=

Thanks for the correction

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EricAnimeFreak wrote:

And Finally, Overcharged, in this case the unit is both charged and powered and gets the benefits from both attached effects.

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=3
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=9
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=60

+

AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=2
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=7
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=50

Strength=1200 (6*200)
Speed=36
Damage=3000

I'm not quite sure how they would stack. Either one effect is applied first then is increased again or it adds the base again to the current stats. That's a question for Graion.


Sorry, missed this. They'll get multiplied (they're called XMultipliers for a reason #Tongue ) with each other. And these are not percentage values. Even one of these effects are superOP if you ask me.  Laughing

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EricAnimeFreak
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was trying to help him create power based units with attach effect so it's good to know.

Basically the Base units is super Under powered. And then when attach effect hits them, they become normal, which is why the Values seem so extreme.

I guess he has to choose between batteries or transmitters, not both.

Together they are way too powerful as you have pointed out!

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How to make a unit move faster on a different terrain?

Let's say:

Speed on Urban Tiles = 5
Speed on Ground Tiles = 12

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Edit SpeedType in Rules

then edit the Tile Piece's Terrain Type with TMP Shop

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what about:

; ******* Land Characteristics *******
; This section specifies the characteristics of the various
; terrain types. The primary purpose is to differentiate the
; movement capabilities.

; Float = % of full speed for ships (0 means impassable) (def=100)
; Foot = % of full speed for foot soldiers (0 means impassable) (def=100)
; Track = % of full speed for tracked vehicles (0 means impassable) (def=100)
; Wheel = % of full speed for wheeled vehicles (0 means impassable) (def=100)
; Hover = % of full speed for hovering vehicles (0 means impassable) (def=100)
; Amphibious = % of full speed for amphibious vehicles (0 impassable) (def=100)
; Buildable = Can buildings be built upon this terrain (def=no)?

; clear grassy terrain
[Clear]
Foot=90%
Track=70%
Wheel=70%
Float=0%
Hover=100%
Amphibious=80%
Buildable=yes
Creep=100%




---------

what I haven't found out yet is how the game knows if the unit got tracks or wheels, maybe with the locomotor...

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to mention you could probably use Ice or Weed since its unused in RA2YR.

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, I forgot about the SpeedType #Tongue

Okay, how to make a unit transform once made contact on another terrain?

MCV on Clear when touches Road, deploys automatically or transform to another unit.

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mevitar
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Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Impossible.
You can only change unit's image when it enters water, that's all.

You really should try checking most of this stuff yourself, otherwise, you will keep asking us "is X possible? and how about Y?" forever. Wink

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kairunotabi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just new to RA2 modding using ARES

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