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Sinking ships
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NimoStar
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject:  Sinking ships
Subject description: How exactly does it work?
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Hello. I have noticed even in my mod that some ships sink and others don't.

I think these parameters are necessary for the "sinking" death effect:

Locomotor={2BEA74E1-7CCA-11d3-BE14-00104B62A16C}
SpeedType=Float
MovementZone=Water

However, it seems to be nullified when:

Underwater=yes

Since submarines just explode.

Hover units also sink when dying over water, and land units sink if teleported on water or fall on water (even amphibious and hover ones using chronosphere and falling from bridges will sink)
- This includes sinking if a Hover units is Emp'ed

I would like to know if:

1- It's possible that Underwater=yes units sink
2- Are there any other related tags (for example, if Naval=yes has something to do)
3- How to control this more specifically.

Help me with research!

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Weight also causes it. Units with 3 or more weight will sink if used in conjunction with that locomotor.

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Starkku
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Weight also causes it. Units with 3 or more weight will sink if used in conjunction with that locomotor.


Actual weight threshold is determined by [General] -> ShipSinkingWeight. It is set to 3.0 in unmodified game, though.

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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm going to guess it has some roots in Tiberian Sun's ice sinking logic

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Team Black wrote:
I'm going to guess it has some roots in Tiberian Sun's ice sinking logic


Perhaps, although units that sank through ice did so head first, and weight had nothing to do with it. Weight only determined whether the unit cracks ice or not or falls immediately through it, but you could always destroy the ice under any unit and the unit would sink (not the case with infantry who would just disappear with a Wake= anim).

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NimoStar
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love that big subs could sink to the bottom instead of just going "Boom" when destroyed (also, using a land surface explosion, which is dull...)

Should we ask in Ares the possibility of enabling this? It shouldn't be that hard since it works in non-sub units, the problem is that the engine disables it by default.

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Krow
Commander


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unless you're a programmer, I have no ztyping idea why you'd say it's disabled by default.

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't subs sink already? If not just use appropriate Weight to match ShipSinkingWeight.

If you mean the unit will also play their ExplosionAnim Tags while sinking. I'm not sure if they do that already anyway if not put up a discussion about it in 0.5 maybe?

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NimoStar
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, they do not sink.

The tag

Underwater=yes

prevents sinking behavior.

(in turn it is needed for other units to submarine-target, for example the Destroyer's Osprey)

Perhaps a "Sinking=boolean" tag in a techtype basis?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why should a submarine have sinking logic? It is already underwater! Should it surface to then submerge/sink again?
Just assign a nice special underwater explosion to the submarine and done.

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WoRmINaToR
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Location: AKA Sir Prize

PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^ This.

Also, guys, you might want to fact check before you make unnecessarily rude comments like

Quote:
Unless you're a programmer, I have no ztyping idea why you'd say it's disabled by default.


Because some extremely basic fact checking (http://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/Underwater) would show you that he is in fact right. Subs (or, to be more accurate, Underwater=yes units) are hard coded to not sink. NimoStar doesn't have to be a programmer to read a ModEnc page, and neither do you.

@NimoStar: The main reason for this is that the sinking animation would cause the sub to "unstealth" and look like it had surfaced fully all of a sudden, which wouldn't make much sense if it was "underwater" at the time of its death. Also, to players who have uncovered the shroud of the area but are not actively detecting that area, the sub would magically appear above water on their screen as it sank.

Since I highly doubt this will get the time of day in an Ares discussion, LKO's solution is probably the best way.

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