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Tycoon Proof of Concept?
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zirbs
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 31 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject:  Tycoon Proof of Concept?
Subject description: Why NOT turn an RTS into economic strategy?
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This is one of those 4-AM insomnia ideas that still made sense the next day:

Could Tiberium Sun be modded into a "Tiberium Tycoon" game, based around harvesting, processing and transporting Tiberium?

I think the answer is yes already, but let's get a little deeper:

Could you build roads? well, we can already build concrete, I don't see why not...

Could you build railways? Rail exists as overlay, and the ability to plop down overlay is already in the wall-building code.

Could you build bridges? The destroyable cliffs replace terrain features right on the map. Instead of converting the set piece to slopes when shot, why not convert to a bridgehead when activated by an engineer or mcv?

In addition to mining and transporting Tiberium, other activities could include providing food, water, housing and transportation to local communities, even to the point of organizing militias to defend against isolated attacks.

So... how far in the clouds is my head right now? Does this sound feasible? Fun?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beside of all the engine limitations, how do you want to find out the winner of the game if there is no such scoring logic in the game, like the one with the biggest city with best food and water supply?

Build roads? No. You can indeed place down terrain like concrete, but everything else than LATs like concrete which autoconnect, would only result in a wild arrangement. You can't forbid the player to place a road piece vertical and misaligned to the current road nor can you take points from the player from doing such ugly stuff.
In addition do you can't remove or replace a once placed down road.

Railways? no. Wall logic doesn't work on railroads, because walls are hardcoded to Land=Wall and railroads need Land=Railroad. In addition do railroads also work in horizontal/vertical lines, where walls can only be placed in diagonal lines matching the isometric grid.
You also can't make sure that this way build railroads have no sharp corners. (For trains to work, only 45° corners are allowed and between each corner needs to be at least one single straight track)
In addition was every attempt in the past to build a train on a railroad during the game a failure. It needed several bad hacks and correct placement of the building to even get the new build train on the track without destroying the used warfactory. Adding connecting wagons to the train is entirely impossible during a game.

Bridges: no chance how you described it. Destroyable cliffs are a special terrain tile whose logic can't be changed to work with engineers or anything else.
There have been attempts at buildable bridges in the past even for normal C&C and nothing ever worked.


How do you want to control the other activities? There is no logic for food, water etc. Power is the only other "ressource" and it's usage is highly limited: providing by powerplants, draining by buildings, not more.


For such a project you better search a different engine.

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Parasite03
Cyborg Artillery


Also Known As: ZivDero
Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coding for the win? How do you think Ares works in RA2? So, he could code it to be how he desires it to be.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're much better off making a mod for Railroad Tycoon, Sim City or whatever and then inserting C&C graphics if you really wanna create a mod like this.
Lin Quei Ominae wrote:
In addition was every attempt in the past to build a train on a railroad during the game a failure. It needed several bad hacks and correct placement of the building to even get the new build train on the track without destroying the used warfactory.

This actually shouldn't be very hard...
The factory that builds the train should simply have WeaponsFactory=no and the train tracks should be right beside the factory. WeaponsFactory=no will cause the train to be spawned on any cell that's legal for the train to move on directly next to the factory (instead of driving out of the factory) and because the train has MovementRestrictedTo=Railroad, the only "legal" cells are in fact the train tracks (meaning the train will always be spawned on the train tracks if one is present next to the factory and if none is present, the train won't spawn and will be refunded).

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It depends on the warfactory foundation and the position of the tracks towards it.

e.g. a 2x2 or 4x3 warfactory and the new unit is spawned at the west corner cell and moves one cell southwest. If there is no track to the south west of the warfactory, then it gets refunded too.

short said: a train track needs to be present at the hardcoded initial rally point of the warfactory, else the unit is refunded.

And that makes usage ingame pretty bad.

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Darkstorm
Commander


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Me thinks me haves a good mission idea...

Think, a mission based on the capture and/or defense of civilian assets. I'm not sure but you could make the transport of tiberium the win condition. It could even use the train delivery system I made for the delivery of troops in an urban setting. It might make a good Globotech based mission if I ever get around to it. It doesn't exactly entail the construction of civilian assets, but the capture and/or defense of them.

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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It might be fun to build it just to build it, like a sort of "Creative Mode" - but I don't see any way to make those features actually functional in a win-lose type of game.
Of course, there'd be no saving it in a multiplayer game, unless you decided to take a screenshot or something..

And if you actually feel like wasting THAT much time, you may as well make a real map in FinalSun

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zirbs
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 31 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oky doky. I just wanted to check with the professionals on this. Finding other engines will be tricky, but I might ball this in with an RPG/Tycoon mod I'm making for Minecraft.

Still, I'd love to see the result in isometric view. Ah well.

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