1. I liked Tiberian suns AI was better for reasons noted in post/and or other reasons
9%
[ 1 ]
2. Agree with Option 1, but TS's ai had glitches that needed fixing/improved.
0%
[ 0 ]
3. I think RA2/YRs AI was better for reasons noted in post. Organized was better and/or other reasons, TS was not as good as RA2s.
36%
[ 4 ]
4. Agree with option 3, but I think it could/should of had more complexity to it like TS, but perhaps improved
0%
[ 0 ]
5. Neutral. I think both ai's had positives and negatives equally on each end which puts me in the middle.
18%
[ 2 ]
6. None of these describe my opinion, explain below =)
36%
[ 4 ]
Total Votes : 11
Author
Message
Kamuix
Rocket Infantry
Joined: 02 Nov 2012 Location: Canada
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:46 am Post subject:
Tiberian sun skirmish AI vs RA2/YW skirmish AI?
Subject description: Just for discussion, what's your preference?
TSnote: I find Tiberian sun was more random, crazy, animal like, unpredictable, would build outwards randomly, attacks were also more random
RA2YRnotes: in RA2 it's more organized. predictable, built the base a curtain size and no larger and in circle like formation, attacks were also consistent and less random. Less glitchy.
Just to summarize quickly the differences I noted I probably missed important things.
Personally speaking I kinda like the RA2 AI more not just its very organized (even though I'm really practically fan of TS) but it's because how the developers planned the encoding of AI at its finest. It also gives some sort of an extra challenge. Not only that, base on my observations, I noticed that when the AI is building a base, it really prioritizes more frequently the ones that the human player cannot be built or trained unless a certain condition is met (example, AI immediately builds a Prism Tower although he only have Ore Refinery, some Pillboxes, Barracks, and War Factory) and also quickly replaces lost team members.
In my observations in Tiberian Sun, I noticed that the AI, especially when it comes to building base, it builds in a manner that is similar to human-like respond even if he can bypass Prerequisites. For teamtypes, and such, same as above. Less frequently replaces lost team members and relies more on defense. QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:16 am Post subject:
TS vs RA2
Tiberian Sun is sci fi while Red Alert 2 is suppose to be normal. From what I have read in the ARES docs 90% of the injection is for TS style game play.
I have been working at removing all the stuff that is sci fi from the game. Despite the fact that tesla coils are possible to a degree, but the tanks and troopers no..... Prism towers shoot lasers, but the whole game prism effect is way far fetched.
Quote:
RA2YRnotes: in RA2 it's more organized. predictable, built the base a curtain size and no larger and in circle like formation, attacks were also consistent and less random. Less glitchy.
This statement is soooooo false. The AI is as crazy as you make it. I make big maps and the AI expands as big as it can. You give the AI proper space and not so close to edge and they can go crazy.
If you want to play TS/FS go with Yuri's with ARES...... you can do a lot more. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
It is a big topic with many aspects which may not be summarized properly and won't do justice to the
complexity of each of them and may require some experience to understand them.
Skimish AI in TS/RA2 is modifiable and the approach is of programmed teams along with superweapons.
Other games approaches of that era which has modifiable AI are:
- like representing by percentages (AOE2/SWBG) where say 40% of total will be for resource gathering
- like unit based priority (TA/TAK/Tzar/DR2 etc.) - attack forces are in waves of them.
Even the AI of RA1 (i.e AIGenerals/ratio/limits) was able to give larger infantry attack forces. TS/RA2 also
lack in the area of building upgrades producing different units like in many other games.
RA2 AI is a progression over TS AI in features:
- regrouping near enemy base before attack
- base defence scripts like shock trooper charging tesla towers or base defence patrols
- combining superweapons with teams like iron curtain or chronosphere
- special logic for drones/dogs, walls
- water terrain plays a little more part than TS
- different AI difficulty in same skirmish or ally with sides (not considering CnCnet5)
- MPModes can override rules(md).ini to give different flavors
Superweapon differences - paradrops/weather-control/nukes, veinholes/ion storms etc. or visceroid
merging, subterranean, cloaking are specific to TS or RA2 (not considering Ares). Not all can be
considered as progression as well like hunter seeker (or mobile sensor array) usage in long games
to root out units.
Possibilities in TS AI (some applies to RA2 as well):
- not all cases has success/failure delta or has fixed/variable weightages.
- attack sequence has general attack anything (0,1) after a first attack script (like after attacking
harvester, can attack vehicles and then base defences etc.)
- having separate medium and hard teams
- small number of taskforce used for multiple teamtypes which looks like lack of variation
- stagnant AI - various factors like team size/cost, buildtime, dissolve time, support teams, credit
availability, building strength, base defense teams/count, map features (size/ground reacheability) etc.
affect them.
- team constitution with say different abilities (anti air + cannon or EMP vehicle with infantry)
- additional sides and rewriting ai.ini
Still feels like missing a lot!
[AOE2: Age of Empires 2, SWBG: StarWars Galactic Battlegrounds, TA/TAK: Total Annihilation /
Kingdoms, Tzar: Burden of the Crown, DR2: Dark Reign 2 - May not be accurate about them as it has
been a long long time] QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject:
TS had the advantage of a much more varied AI (just compare the AI.ini files of TS and RA2; TS's one is much larger). The downside is that the teams used aren't very interesting. One of a unit for Easy, four of a unit for Medium/Hard. Four light inf isn't as intimidating as four Disruptors
RA2 has the advantage of extended AI logic. Main point is that they can group near their base and near the enemies base, before attacking. This way the team attacks as a single force, instead of unit by unit which weakens the attack massively. Also RA2 offers much better cash modifiers for the AI, so the AI doesn't get a one-off bonus at the start, but actually gets a bonus with each harvester load (making them better in the long term).
The problem of the RA2 AI not being as varied as the TS AI can be solved by editing the AI.ini. However, the advantages RA2 offers can't be replicated into TS unfortunately.
Short said: TS AI = more varied, RA2 AI = more advanced. If I could get the advantages of RA2 into TS (for example TI), then that would make me a very happy AI coder QUICK_EDIT
tbh both suck but I had more fun against the AI in RA2. Not very in depth opinion I know but where should I start. The attack teams of 4 E1? The german AI attacking bases with tank destroyers? the TS ai winning only thanks to engineers and superweapon spam. AI being a poor joke in general not even expansions till Generals. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
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Tiberian sun skirmish AI vs RA2/YW skirmish AI?
