TerrainTypes, OverlayTypes, Theaters

Parasite03 · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject:

Ares needs to expand TerrainTypes, OverlayTypes, theaters and LATs to improve the visual part of the game even more. Also, TS ice would be nice for this update.

_________________

RP · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject:

It should also expand the wheels you can put on VehicleTypes and I would also like to have InfantryTypes built from War Factories as AbstractType instances.

Seriously, this topic is not created for what you're suggesting/demanding, Parasite03. AlexB even said so.

OverlayTypes are quite (if not extremely) difficult to expand because the Packs from the map files are created in such a way that it holds a single byte (0-255), properly supporting more than 256 types means a redesign of the Pack sections.
IIRC there's already a base for 'custom' theaters, maybe it can be tested in 0.9 but don't take my word for it.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Graion Dilach · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:00 am Post subject:

That branch is outdated (last updated, 2009) and never worked - if you specified a theaterlist (just by only listing the default ones were enough to trigger) it went to an infinite loop and exited with running out of stack memory. Just sayin'.

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

AlexB · Commander **Joined**: 31 May 2010 **Location**: Germany

0.8 is nearing completion. There will be another RC next week, which should come with docs and some more internal changes and optimizations. More features are unlikely at this point.

Gunner/OpenTopped for buildings has been requested already.

RP's assessment of the overlay issue is correct. Also, if expanded, you wouldn't be able to use the new overlay. And what Graion said about theaters is also true. If wished, i could look into it for 0.9.

_________________

Mig Eater · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:23 am Post subject:

The only thing that really defines a theater is it's pal, which limits the style of the graphics used on that type of map.

If you could make it possible to use custom pals for individual tile sets then new theaters wouldn't be necessary, with the colour limitation removed any style of graphics could be used within any theater. Snow & temperate could be combined into one theater or martian terrain added to the lunar theater etc.

_________________

Starkku · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:52 am Post subject:

Yeah custom palettes for tilesets would probably be more useful than custom theaters to be honest.

_________________

RP · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject:

With that you might want to make Desert and Lunar 'full' theaters like the others.
IIRC some things were completely missing in Lunar and some things broken in Desert?

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject:

That and also putting all the new theatres in the old ones is not good. Havin theatres redone would be much better IMO.
Ilso, I'm not talking about adding more overlays. I'm talking about the way the game reads the list. It is really easy to mess up. What I mean is:
1. Be able to rename them without the game not showing any
2. A special section to define all hardcoded overlays, e.g.

Code:

[Whatever]
Tiberium1=TIB%%
Tiberium2=TIB2_%%
Tiberium3=TIB3_%%
Tiberium4=TIB4_%%
RubbleOverlay=RUBBLE_OVERLAY

To be more prescise, making the game use names instead of numbers would be much better.

Also, when is the long-awaited TibeirumToSpawnTag coming?
The next update should be dedicated to TerrainTypes, theatres, OverlayTypes IMO.

_________________

Atomic_Noodles · Defense Minister **Joined**: 05 Oct 2011

Your not the one entirely in charge of directing whos doing what Parasite. Confused

_________________
~ Excelsior ~

Droke · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject:

Palettes for individual sets is something I'd die to get my hands on, being able to use truer more varied colors would be awesome.

However, LATs are another important part of a theater. Arctic and desert can share many things, but your going to have headaches sharing the LATs between them.

_________________
"It's got that Droke style to it!"

OmegaBolt · Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject:

These are big ideas and I'd rather see a mod desperate to use them before they're worked on. If you can come up with some amazing mod idea that is totally original and relies on these kinds of features then come up with it and maybe they'll get support. Until then you really have to work with what you've got and the suggestions with the most support should get worked on, besides whatever Alex wants to do himself.

Unique palettes for tilesets would obviously be a universally useful one though.

Ickus · General **Joined**: 25 Nov 2002 **Location**: @__@

Keeping an eye on this thread for reasons and stuff. Smile

I admit, thinking of stuffs, for starters can imagine layered terrains with parallax backgrounds could be neat.

Not unlike that creative use of water tiles to emulate a twinkling space background on a lunar terrain set.

but I acknowledge its a whimsical notion.

_________________
Delirium..

OmegaBolt · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:03 am Post subject:

Well I did think it'd be neat to have, instead of black as the background colour, the option for a background image. So if you use the colour #0 in your tile you'll leave a gap for the background image, thus having in space images of bigger planets that can even appear to go underneath cliffs etc without having a load of tilesets to do it.

Of course this is a totally unrealistic addition I think. #Tongue

DaRTzO · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:10 am Post subject:

The ability to add more rocks and more tiles would be nice. Very Happy

RP · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:55 am Post subject:

You can already add more tiles in tilesets (if that is what you're referring to).
Adding rocks involves OverlayTypes and those are tricky (read my post above).

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

DaRTzO · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject:

I remember I tried adding rock06 but it's hardcoded to 5 per each set of rocks and as far as I know it's not possible to make new sets.

Mig Eater · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:58 am Post subject:

I haven't had any problems with adding new overlays? Just use the "All overlay" section on the left menu or the "Overlay & Special" drop down menu on the right.

There are over 50 unused overlays listed in the rules that can be replaced with new ones. I've used up a few of those but I doubt most mods would need more then that.

Overlays aren't the only way to create new map objects, you can also use TerrainTypes. If that also has a 255 limit then you can add another 176, which again should be more then enough for most mods. I've actually added 143 to D-day so far & I'm running out of things to add #Tongue

Lastly one option I'm also using as a last resort is to use immobile/uncrushable infantry as terrain objects. This is because the terrain pal doesn't have the colours I need, so I've used infantry with a custom pal instead. When coded correctly it's indistinguishable from a normal terrain object.

_________________

RP · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject:

You'll run into issues eventually when going over 254.
IIRC Aro had this problem.

You cannot have more than 255 overlaytypes that fully work, the map sections aren't designed that way; period.
As long as you work withing the range of index 0 to 254, you're fine (just make sure you don't overwrite any Westwood hardcoded entries).

From what I can recall, TerrainTypes does not have such a limit, because it's not compressed in a special map section.

EDIT: 256 -> 255

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Starkku · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject:

Pretty sure that the limit is actually 255 OverlayTypes. OverlayPack values range between 0-254 with 255 being reserved for no overlay/padding.

_________________

DaRTzO · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the info from all of you, this was a very long time ago I needed this, but hopefully it will benefit some of the newer modders. I recall running into weird problems where the overlay I made didn't show up in game or the map editor. One or the other. Anyway, thanks. Smile

Mig Eater · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject:

Yes I know there is a limit of 255 & that the game is already near that limit, but as I said before there are over 50 overlays that are unused/dummies/left over from TS which can be replaced with new ones.

Overlays are mainly used for Tibeirum, bridges & walls, things that are intractable & have multiple frames. Other simple single frame objects like rocks etc can be added to TerrainTypes & work exactly the same.

Tibeirum & bridges are hardcoded and new ones can not be added, expanding the logic to add new ones would require a lot of work & possibly a whole new map editor. So you are left with walls, now I don't know about you but don't think I'll ever need more then 50 different walls...

In short, stop whining about the overlays 255 limit Confused

_________________

RP · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject:

@Starkku, yeah, you're right.

Mig Eater; you cannot have more than 255 overlaytypes!!1! #Tongue

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject:

BTW What is exactly hardcoded? I'm redoing the overlay list since I have a total total total conversion and I'm having trouble with them - I left all ores and gems + RUBBLE_OVERLAY but no ores appear if placed on the map.

P.S. All other overlays are renamed to NONEXXX

_________________

DaRTzO · Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject:

LOL I did that mistake once. Basically you're ztyped to the x axis.

Parasite03 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:29 am Post subject:

What do you mean by me ztyped to the X axis?c

_________________

RP · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:41 am Post subject:

You're not ztyped to the x axis.

If you have NONEXXX for each dummy entry, only one will be parsed. The game will not look for NONEXXX more than once, if it has found it at 0=, it'll load that one and discard all the others.
This inevitably makes every other valid entry come after 0=.

So, if you really have NONEXXX for each dummy entry, it is very likely that the first ore type is listed at 1=, and not the hardcoded index the game uses.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject:

XXX is numbers from 1 through 178 (177 entries, one number accidenaly skipped.)

_________________

RP · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject:

Requesting a split because this will turn into a support topic rather than an Ares discussion.

Parasite03, could you dump the OverlayTypes list that Ares gives you?
If possible I'd also like to see your rulesmd.ini so that I can run them through my parser.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:45 am Post subject:

Everyone is talking of some "Ares dumper" and no one ever told me what that is and there is nothing about it anywhere.

rulesmd.ini

Description:

Download

Filename:

rulesmd.ini

Filesize:

57.31 KB

Downloaded:

5 Time(s)

_________________

RP · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:33 am Post subject:

Looked at a dump of Yuri's Revenge, then looked at your OverlayTypes list and I see no difference between the parsed rules of YR and your rules...

Put it back the way it was, there is no use for doing this anyway.
You are missing a lot of other hardcoded entries as well.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:10 am Post subject:

What are they? I'll return them and see if it fixes the proble. So, how do I create these dumps?

_________________

RP · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:45 am Post subject:

IIRC they are dumped automatically when you load a scenario.

What are what? Bridge overlay? You should be able to determine which one they are (like BRDG or something).
BRIDGEB1, LOBRDGB1, LOBRDG09 and such.
Look at it with vanilla rules next to your rules and you should be fine resolving the bridges.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Graion Dilach · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:49 am Post subject:

http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/ui-features/keyboardcommandshotkeys.html#type-data-dumping is the dumper you guys talk about.

Reading the manual is too mainstream, I guess.

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

Glukv48 · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:39 am Post subject:

Graion Dilach, Approved

RP · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:32 am Post subject:

Yes, adding -LOG and running the game.
I don't read the manual because I know it already.

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity

Parasite03 · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:06 am Post subject:

Hmmmm... Don't remember -DEBUG doing anything like that. I was sure it did not do that.

I am confused.... I returned the old list and old entries but the ore is still not there...

Ohhh... The key... But that did not tell me anything special, did both dumps. Just the lists.

_________________

E1 Elite · General **Joined**: 28 May 2013

Use -LOG in commandline and map hotkeys for development in options -> keyboard.

Parasite03 · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:49 am Post subject:

Nothing intersintg in it... Just the lists.

_________________

Graion Dilach · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:55 am Post subject:

The lists is the interesting part, duh. Those lists are the exact lists of the internal types an how they're referred. If you use something which refers a type with an index - like Overlays - then you can get the proper indexes anytime by using that command.

_________________
"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

RP · Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:50 am Post subject:

A little more parsing and validating gave me this:

[13:57:54] - OverlayType at index 0 is supposed to be a Wall! It's used for Gate and WallTower connection!
[13:57:54] - OverlayType at index 2 is supposed to be a Wall! It's used for Gate and WallTower connection!
[13:57:54] - OverlayType at index 26 is supposed to be a Wall! It's used for Gate connection!
[13:57:54] - Low-Concrete Bridge OverlayTypes should be consecutive in [OverlayTypes], starting from index 205 to 232, this enumeration is broken!
[13:57:54] - Low-Wooden Bridge OverlayTypes should be consecutive in [OverlayTypes], starting from index 74 to 101, this enumeration is broken!
[13:57:54] - Track OverlayTypes should be consecutive in [OverlayTypes], starting from index 39 to 54, this enumeration is broken!

Consecutive = 01, 02, 03... 28

It seems your Tiberiums are valid, but seriously, don't touch OverlayTypes unless you know what the game does with it.
You don't know it for 80% of the items, so don't touch them!

_________________

Mental Omega 3.0 Mission creator - Creator of FinalOmega: APYR 3.0 Map Editor

/ppm/'s stupidity