Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am Post subject:
New Overpass/Bridge test results...
Subject description: Ok so I inadvertently discovered how to make a 1-way bridge!
Alright so the short answer: new bridge ends and pillars technically don't work.
- If you place a non-original pillar into an existing bridge, deleting the single overlay that it replaced, the entire bridge breaks. Your unit will not enter the overlays portion at all, from either end.
- If you overwrite one of the bridge ends (the cliff piece), the unit can cross the bridge from the original side, but again will not enter the overlay portion from the new side. The unit will instead go around if possible.
Something I haven't tested yet is a possible workaround. Since bridge sections are 5 wide, and only 3 of those are drivable, we can in theory keep the middle 3 cells original. If we replace only the outer (or front most) ones, the pathfinding may continue to function correctly.
I expect the workaround works when replacing the sides of a bridge end piece, or perhaps the front part of a pillar. What I have doubts about is replacing the ground tiles just ahead of the front facing bridge ends, which is what's required to make them grass.
I'm not doing anymore tests for the moment, need some sleep, but if my workaround works, the simplest option might be deleting the 3x 4-high cells in the middle of my new pieces, and stamping them over/around the originals. QUICK_EDIT
Bridge ends and pillars have damaged frames that encompass all the tiles. If you damage/destroy a bridge overlay adjacent to a bridge end or pillars, the tiles will also change to their damaged frame. Thus your old/new bridge hybrid might break if you damage the bridge.
I remember a case in an old map, where someone had mistakenly placed two destroyable cliffs so that one almost completely overlapped the other. Destroying the underlying destroyable cliff piece would result in the collapsed cliff frame appearing completely over the other destroyable cliff piece, somehow making it undestroyable in turn. I suspect with your bridge hybrid the original bridge would appear over the new bridge tiles when damaged. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Pathfinding:
It works if the central 3 drivable cells belong to the original bridge sections, in both directions. This applies to pillars and ends.
If I use FA2 to draw from a bridge end to one of my full pillars, then another bridge from the opposite end to the pillar, units can cross the entire bridge from the top, but not from from the bottom. However it is possible to at least approach the pillar from the bottom, something not possible if the bridge overlay was deleted and replaced with the pillar as in a previous test.
C4:
Blowing up a bridge with a full replacement pillar (not the kind with the 3 cells removed) is possible, but due to the one-way nature of the bridge, this is only cosmetically interesting.
The bridge ends do indeed change back to the full original damaged piece, including the cells I overwrote with my updated tileset. This did not happen with the pillar in my screenshot, because it didn't include any of the original bridge pillar tiles. Obviously there was no damage substitute either.
If one of the bridge ends has been replaced, the C4 does not appear to work at all, even with no pillars intersecting. Tanya will make the hut flash, but nothing happens.
Soooooooooo knowing all this, I can potentially see another workaround, but one that would require updating all maps with bridges of any kind. Like the nuclear option...
If the old bridge sections are re-drawn to be 5-wide by 2 thick, and the sides are moved to new pieces, we could make combination bridges much like my missing-cell tests. This would make every bridge piece at least 7 wide, not including the overlays.
The rubble versions would have to be modified to work with non-rubble sides, and would look something like the DCLIFF's with the damage in the middle. This would be a significant amount of work, yet fairly easy to do.
I wouldn't try narrowing the old bridge sections to 3 to use with new sides, at least not for pillars, I don't think the sides could be made flexible enough to handle the damage states. Though if this could be made to work, that would allow all bridge maps to be fixed relatively easily.
This topic has me completely intrigued... I intend to try remaking all the bridges using just the core tiles involved in unit movement for the actual bridge function, and move the "skinning" to other tilesets, allowing nearly unlimited appearance modification.
Before I do that, I was trying to confirm something, but I haven't managed to, the destruction states. Each bridge pillar has 5 possible "states", undamaged, then damaged on 1 side, then the other side, then both sides, then a completely destroyed 5th state.
Is there any scenario where a bridge pillar can be destroyed (5th state) as opposed to just fully damaged (4th state), or is that piece specifically to place on maps as rubble only? _________________ http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai QUICK_EDIT
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:24 am Post subject:
Quote:
Is there any scenario where a bridge pillar can be destroyed (5th state) as opposed to just fully damaged (4th state), or is that piece specifically to place on maps as rubble only?
From all the years that I have played Red Alert 2 I can't remember ever observing it going to that damage state by conventional damage, so I would say it is preplace rubble only. QUICK_EDIT
Yes it can, if you have units on the pillars and enemies attack them, it can.
IIRC shooting at it for a long time does the trick, thus technically it is possible. Whether it happens is another discussion _________________
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New Overpass/Bridge test results...
