Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:41 am Post subject:
Ares Broke Carryalls?
Trying to get carryalls working as it used to, Giving a [SHAD] (nighthawk) based unit the tag Carryall=yes Carryall.SizeLimit=-1 and it doesn't work. The unit needs to be in the aircraft list, which forces it to use the airbase. And even then - it is not picking up my tanks. Following Ares Documentation for implementation. But unlike most other mechanics they have introduced - this one seems broke.
Does anybody know anything about this? Or am I missing something?
Carryalls have always needed to be an aircraft type since their introduced in TS. I also have Carryalls working without any problems in my Ares mod using the same code you have posted. You must have done something else wrong, post your full code so we can check it for you. _________________
The Dock= tag shouldn't even be there, but also since you gave it to the nighthawk it doesn't work because the nighthawk is a JumpJet unit. It needs to have the Flying locomotor. Passengers doesn't really work with it either, though it can have them.
That's because it's an AircraftType now, so it'll only be built at Factory=AircraftType regardless if you have BuiltAt, if your BuiltAt= structure doesn't create AircraftType.
Testing all this, I find Carryall to be buggy as it is. It can't handle a weapon as on killing a target it will fly to the edge of the map in a random direction. Nor can it seem to handle landing correctly either, where it just hovers over the ground like an idiot until you tell it to land somewhere else. Oh and like TS aircraft it also won't reveal the map where it lands and cannot move to shroud. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I've been removing feature after feature and no fix is in sight. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
I remember before ares - you could activate this logic really simply. And yes it didn't have fancy cursors and stuff - just that big no entry cursor - but it still worked really well. ANd you could build them from the factory - I am +100% certain of it. QUICK_EDIT
Ares released an update in Jan right?
So ares is still going?
I hope ares either fix or expand carryalls, maybe even include carryall - harvester logic from dune 2000. But most importantly, allow vehicles types with - consideredaircraft=yes - to be carryall=yes. QUICK_EDIT
You have internal transports. Why would you want the inconvenient carryall if the internal transports offer much more modding flexibility and better handling ingame?
I would love to get rid of carryalls in TS and have working dropships instead. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I would love to get rid of carryalls in TS and have working dropships instead.
An amphibious transport with flying locomotor?
Good Idea.
But it is a shame to loose the tank below the chopper effect, and unloading is much slower and more dangerous.
I am going to try to suggest this logic Vehicletypes with ConsideredAircraft=Yes taking on Carryall=Yes l- to the official ares site. And mention the Dune2000 carryall behaviours. QUICK_EDIT
I remember before ares - you could activate this logic really simply. And yes it didn't have fancy cursors and stuff - just that big no entry cursor - but it still worked really well. ANd you could build them from the factory - I am +100% certain of it.
Unfortunately, being 100% certain isn't the same as being right. The Carryall=yes setting is only ever read for AircraftTypes both in YR and TS, thus no UnitType ever could have been made into a Carryall. AircraftTypes cannot build from a Factory=UnitType building, so this is also improbable at least. Thus, Ares must have broken a well working feature by no longer supporting things that were not possible even without Ares.
AnimalMan wrote:
Ares released an update in Jan right?
So ares is still going?
I hope ares either fix or expand carryalls, maybe even include carryall - harvester logic from dune 2000. But most importantly, allow vehicles types with - consideredaircraft=yes - to be carryall=yes.
Yeah, Ares' latest release is still pretty new.
Carryalls aren't broken, though: Both the game's rulesmd.ini and the Ares documentation state that only AircraftTypes can be Carryalls. They do what they were designed to do (by the TS devs), and Ares doesn't change that. It only expands a few things, and adds support for cursors and ships (which TS didn't have).
I concur, they might not have all the features that would be good to have. Weapons make a Carryall just drop its cargo like a paradrop plane (that's how the engine has been doing this for ages (see RA1's paradrop / parabombs). Shroud would be another thing, which might be a balance issue. Also automatic harvester transport would be cool.
UnitTypes don't have a lot of functions that would be needed to add this (this involves unit movement, drawing, and cursors at least). I don't think that's gonna happen. Would be some effort, and the use cases are pretty limited. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I concur, they might not have all the features that would be good to have. Weapons make a Carryall just drop its cargo like a paradrop plane (that's how the engine has been doing this for ages (see RA1's paradrop / parabombs). Shroud would be another thing, which might be a balance issue. Also automatic harvester transport would be cool.
I assume this was either fixed in Ares or was never a problem in RA2 to begin with, but in TS, if the carryall paradrops a unit, the unit does not land correctly on the cell, and instead lands at a dozen pixels above the cell center. The unit will work just like before, but it will remain in this awkward position until it's destroyed - there's no way to return it to normal. IIRC voxel shadows still get drawn in the correct position, but I'm not entirely certain about this. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
A bug in TS, no clue if still present in RA2/Ares, when a unit is dropped by the carryall, that dropped unit is completely inactive. It doesn't respond when being fired upon and doesn't engage any enemy units.
Only when you give the dropped unit a move command, you get it out of it's passive state.
That's why i would prefer internal transports, as they release the units in normal guard mode. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
A bug in TS, no clue if still present in RA2/Ares, when a unit is dropped by the carryall, that dropped unit is completely inactive.
But for example harvester continues to harvest after dropped. Dropped unit stance seems to be close to EMP effect behavior, could work also for hunt mission. Too bad that carried unit offset is misplaced and not reverted back after dropped.
Also it is quite funny that if "Parachute= " under AudioVisual is set to non-existing anim, units will fall with full gravity QUICK_EDIT
I guess the carryalls are not broke as such - but if they cannot function as vehicles, and must rely on an airpad - cannot fire weapons very well or path find and other such things - then to me its true lack of usage and customization breaks its purpose. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject:
Crimsonum wrote:
I assume this was either fixed in Ares or was never a problem in RA2 to begin with, but in TS, if the carryall paradrops a unit, the unit does not land correctly on the cell, and instead lands at a dozen pixels above the cell center. The unit will work just like before, but it will remain in this awkward position until it's destroyed - there's no way to return it to normal. IIRC voxel shadows still get drawn in the correct position, but I'm not entirely certain about this.
http://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/bugfixes/type2/vehicleparadropoffset.html _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Crimsonum: I can imagine where that's coming from, if it is 14 pixels. It's because the unit is still marked as being on the Carryall. Want this fixed?
Lin Kuei Ominae: Not sure about that one. Dropped as in para-dropped or as in released normally from the Carryall? I see no mission being set. That would most likely also be fixable, if this is the issue.
Tuc0: There was a fix in Ares to correct the cell offset. If there is no parachute, you'll get the NoParachuteMaxFallRate instead of ParachuteMaxFallRate.
AnimalMan: You gotta complain to WW about that. They designed them to be support aircraft only. Sometimes it's just not possible to combine logics, so why code a complete Carryall system for units or aircraft with optional weapon support and find ways to make differerent logics interact correctly, when TS only had that one Carryall that doesn't need any of that? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Remember guys, the purpose of ares was to restore non-functioning logic, and remove hardcoding on other logics to allow modders more freedom.
I dont feel i should have reiterate the point that doing this would most definately be a useful mechancic, as i bet you would see every mod with a factory produced carryall.
But i understand it may involve the creation of new logic from the ground up that may be out of ares capabilities and/or will power. QUICK_EDIT
True, and Ares did lift a few restrictions, not just for Carryalls.
I think what you mean is pretty clear. I would like to have Carryalls flying over the map, picking up harvesters and so on. Also carrying units to the Service Depot if necessary. Maybe even support for getting a free harvester like you did in Dune 2000 (at least).
One issue you haven't named is time. If this feature is done, another feature has to be dropped, because time is limited. Also, you need a dev with will power, time, and no higher priorities. Getting all the features would be convenient, but it's not realistic, because eventually someone has to do the work. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
For Dune 2000 you would also need the destroy-deploy for the Harkonnen Devastator, the temporary mind control for the Ordos Deviator, thumpers, spaceports, upgrades, light and heavy production queues, and most likely more. Some have been requested already, and for example Sardaukar crush damage has already been implemented, but all? Most likely not. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Lin Kuei Ominae: Not sure about that one. Dropped as in para-dropped or as in released normally from the Carryall? I see no mission being set. That would most likely also be fixable, if this is the issue.
Normal landing drop.
Lost already several mammoths in DTA to a few visceroids, after i dropped them on an island where they simply stood there and let themselves get killed.
Though if you have much time, maybe you can look into internal vehicle transports for TS. (naval transport and aircraft dropships would be great) _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
For that issue I wrote a fix, but didn't test it properly yet.
Vehicle transports would need some work, because there's a lot of code missing to make them work. This would be a big change, and there's still things on my to-do list I should finish before even trying to touch something new. Also, I haven't had much contact with the TS crowd, so I'm a bit out of the loop. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Currently having carryalls train from pads not only prevents their being purchase, when you have full capacity airbase, so training 8 of them is not possible from 1 airpad without moving them out but also the carryall logic breaks with airport bound yes - so there is no way of giving carryalls a reason to be on the airpad. Makes it really hard to create a good easy to use - professional feeling - no special knack - carryall unit.
Maybe there is a way to make the airbase produce them- but not take up a docking slot? AKA rally logic? As the warfactory has two locations to release units. Maybe the airpad should get a second one especially for airportbound=no or Carryall=yes units perhaps this would be simpler? QUICK_EDIT
Just an idea you can declare a service depots as a Factory=AircraftType. Since carryall's are support unit. Maybe you can put it there. I'm using that one out for YRZH. _________________
Fight for the freedom side, March with the Imperial War Machine or Conquest for World Domination
https://www.facebook.com/YRZH.Mod/ https://www.moddb.com/mods/yr-zero-hour QUICK_EDIT
Just an idea you can declare a service depots as a Factory=AircraftType. Since carryall's are support unit. Maybe you can put it there. I'm using that one out for YRZH.
Fantastic Suggestion. I will test how it works. Thank you QUICK_EDIT
nah dude I am getting a direct crash b4 game launch with factory aircraft type, and carryall builtat= service depo. I remove factory=aircrafttype and game launches. QUICK_EDIT
Works for me. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." Last edited by 4StarGeneral on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
I didn't have Factory.ExplicitOnly=yes
_________________________
Tested and nope I am unlucky
Code:
[YADEPTX]
Image=NADEPT
UIName=Name:NADEPT
Name=Soviet Service Depot
BuildCat=Tech
Prerequisite=YAWEAPX,YACNSTX
Strength=1200
Armor=wood
TechLevel=6
Adjacent=2
Sight=5
UnitRepair=yes
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,China,NorthKorea,Vietnam,Ukraine,Ethiopia,Egor,India
AIBasePlanningSide=1 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Cost=800
Points=80
Power=-20
Capturable=true
Crewed=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
DebrisAnim=Dbris1sm,Dbris1lg,Dbris4sm,Dbris5sm,Dbris4lg,Dbris7sm,Dbris8sm,Dbris5lg,Dbris4lg
MaxDebris=15
MinDebris=5
ThreatPosed=0 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys,BigGreySmokeSys
DamageSmokeOffset=270, 580, 260
AIBuildThis=no ;gs DB is signed as removing the other one
NumberOfDocks=1
HasStupidGuardMode=false
NumberImpassableRows=1 ; This is the fix to the Repair depots are flat and RadioContact/Enter means I can drive on you assumption. It counts from game west
ImmuneToPsionics=no ; defaults to yes for buildings, no for others
Factory.ExplicitOnly=yes
Factory=AircraftType
[YADEPTX]
Image=NADEPT
UIName=Name:NADEPT
Name=Soviet Service Depot
BuildCat=Tech
Prerequisite=YAWEAPX,YACNSTX
Strength=1200
Armor=wood
TechLevel=6
Adjacent=2
Sight=5
UnitRepair=no
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,China,NorthKorea,Vietnam,Ukraine,Ethiopia,Egor,India
AIBasePlanningSide=1 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Cost=800
Points=80
Power=-20
Capturable=true
Crewed=yes
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
DebrisAnim=Dbris1sm,Dbris1lg,Dbris4sm,Dbris5sm,Dbris4lg,Dbris7sm,Dbris8sm,Dbris5lg,Dbris4lg
MaxDebris=15
MinDebris=5
ThreatPosed=0 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys,BigGreySmokeSys
DamageSmokeOffset=270, 580, 260
AIBuildThis=no ;gs DB is signed as removing the other one
NumberOfDocks=1
HasStupidGuardMode=false
NumberImpassableRows=1 ; This is the fix to the Repair depots are flat and RadioContact/Enter means I can drive on you assumption. It counts from game west
ImmuneToPsionics=no ; defaults to yes for buildings, no for others
Factory.ExplicitOnly=yes
Factory=AircraftType
WeaponsFactory=yes ExitCoord=256,256,0
Bold are very much necessary. The only parts in my code that weren't necessary were the Adjacent, BaseNormal, and Prerequisite that i thought were obvious. My mistake for quick pasting.
EDIT: Colors were awful _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Obviously. UnitRepair overrides the fact that it's a weaponsfactory and can't produce a unit. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
How is it then still a service depot if it can't repair units anymore?
My thoughts exactly. At first it seems logical, until you realise to fix this will requires you to break that so you can have the novelty of the effect. OR make things appear a certain way, when really they are not. Which isn't good IMO
Using this method, i would just create a new building factory aircraft type and make it exclusive to the unit. Which i guess solves the problem, if i wasnt working within the framework of the canon game design. QUICK_EDIT
Simple, you cannot have UnitRepair=yes AND Factory=AircraftTypes. I assumed geno meant he solely used the service depots as a base for it, if not then I have no idea how he can get it to repair units also. Ares will even tell you that UnitRepair=yes and Factory=AircraftTypes causes internal errors.
Heck, you can't even drive on it because it's a WeaponsFactory. Only way you could get it to repair would be AttachEffect. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject:
The IEs didn't happen immediately in YR and thereby DeeZire/Mooman's Rules or some other notable mod of that era spread out the idea that service depots can function as airpads and there are no issues caused by such - which is not the case as we know it by now. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
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Ares Broke Carryalls?
