Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:52 pm Post subject:
(Lore & Ambient) How not to misinterpret the Yuri faction
Subject description: A common error in some mods including MO
I see many mods, voxel makers, etc. making Yuri into some kind of super high tech sophisticated faction.
Problem is, it isn't.
Of course, more interpretations of a single faction are possible. But this has evolved to be the "default" interpretation of Yuri, which is wrong as we have seen ingame in the original Yuri's Revenge.
We see Yuri is a breakaway from the Soviet Union, a rogue, that doesn't command a large territory (his map shows just a small pacific island)
His tech is not super sophisticated. He grinds people for resources. He connects people to electricity for power. His continued reliance in these sources shows he hasn't perfected other aspects.
Indeed, the Lasher Tank seems to be made from scrap, much as other Yuri faction assets. Even in his "high tech" units like the Disk, we see big welding spots showing poor workmanship.
And how are his bases? Places like Egypt or Romania show that he doesn't have that many resources at his disposal. Indeed, Yuri is overrelint on the paranormal, preferring locations with catacombs, tombs and stone monuments - Not high tech lairs.
In concept art and other sources, we know that many of yuri's "advanced" units are actually biological psychic powers - like the Master Mind, a gigantic brain in a vat. Even the Magnetron is called "[TELE]" in the game's files, revealing its true way of lifting: Telekinesis.
The Initiate, as his name and lines would suggest, telepathically generates flame bursts, probably trough a forehead amplifier.
Where parapsychology or genetic manipulation isn't involved, Yuri's technology is surprisingly basic. Enter the Gatling cannons, a technology of the nineteenth century, not the future. In fact, other than the Disk laser and drain, none of Yuri's tech is futuristic in the conventional sense.
Rather, they are things like viruses, berserk gas, or a rather normal (if strange looking) cruise missile sub.
That is why it seems to me it is a misunderstanding to make Yuri "high tech" "sophisticated" faction with things like stealth, heavy use of energy weapons, lasers and beams, and so on.
The confusion seems to go hand in hand with adding "bluey" details to its units and buildings. None of its stuctures have blue bits in the original game, except for some blue lights on the Barracks. His actual "detail color" is a sickly yellow, as displayed many times, perhaps most prominently in the Bio Power Plant, but also visible on the Psychic Tower, Psi Radar, Grinder, walls, etc.
This erroneous interpretation must partically come from the indirect relationship to Nod in the minds of the fans. But Yuri faction is not Nod, and its aesthetics as we see them are very different.
Yuri's stuff is not sleek and sophisticated - It is rough, cobbled together, hollow. To make up for his lack of resources and preparing time, he was willing to dabble in lots of high risk high reward experiments - Yet the defining feature of these experiments is their immoral cruelty, not their technological sophistication. In fact, their recent experimental nature means more often than not they are less streamlined, not more.
In short, Yuri and his faction are more Dr. Mengele than they are like CABAL or Kane. He is a man willing to do everything for ultimate power. His isn't the technology of tomorrow, rather he is a man obsessed with the ancient and occult - like his dwelling in castles, ruins and pyramids show.
Beyond this fascination with the paranormal, Yuri's army is openly and blatantly low tech. Indeed, the poor workmanship and expendable nature of the units is evidenced several times, from the free nature of Genetic Mutator brutes, the reliance on manual shirtless unfed slave labor for mining, and the lack of even a repair pad, making scrapping its only option.
Yuri's faction is defined by it's unethical means and unorthodox tactics, not by their high tech. In fact, its overall technological level is lower than both allies AND Soviets as far as construction and conventional weaponry is concerned.
I agree, Hes not high tech, but at the same time he isnt at the GLA level of low tech. Trick is, Yuri is a genius that doesnt have much money. Thats why he requires the Soviet Union in ra2. He is from Transylvania, though he seems to be aware of a alternative High Tech ancient History on earth, this is why he is interested in the Pyramids, and Antarctica, and also why he is making weapons out of old Moai heads. He's also involved with Maya ruins in ra2. And his floating disk indicates he had obtained and reverse engineered some sort of alien spacecraft. While his moon base is more evidence to suggest he has an alien connection.
Yeah i agree he isnt suppose to be high tech, he's suppose to be a terrorist, but in a different context, for example he's not suppose to be a desert dwelling rebel force either. He is a mad scientist cultist faction.
Yuri is a Cult.
Yuri is also wasteful, doesnt repair, and he doesnt follow global conventions, he keeps slaves for example. Soviet union desolator is one thing (based off of Sadams treatment of his opposition, where he broke convention using chemical warfarre", but slaves are an entirely different type of evil.
I would actually say he is more like a Nazi civilization than anything else. Considering they conducted Human experiments to create Super Soldiers etc etc they also used Slave Labour. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:51 pm Post subject:
Re: (Lore & Ambient) How not to misinterpret the Yuri faction
While I agree with the general premise, I disagree on a few counts.
NimoStar wrote:
Indeed, the Lasher Tank seems to be made from scrap, much as other Yuri faction assets. Even in his "high tech" units like the Disk, we see big welding spots showing poor workmanship.
Canonically, isn't the Lasher Tank a scrapped Soviet tank design? I could be wrong, but I recall it being spoken of in that manner in the campaign. Concept art shows it to be a rather conventional tank with a sort of plow on front- nothing scrappy about it.
As for the Floating Disk, exaggerated details are a hallmark of games that have to use low-fidelity visuals. Early 3D RTSs (and their mods) like Generals would use giant rivets for instance, to fill in otherwise blank space on textures, as weld-seams/proper rivets wouldn't show up on the tiny textures used. And obviously, RA2's voxel system is even lower fidelity than that.
NimoStar wrote:
Even the Magnetron is called "[TELE]" in the game's files, revealing its true way of lifting: Telekinesis.
For a meta-post, you make an awfully common error of reading way too much into the names of various sections in the INI files.
NimoStar wrote:
Where parapsychology or genetic manipulation isn't involved, Yuri's technology is surprisingly basic. Enter the Gatling cannons, a technology of the nineteenth century, not the future.
Gatling cannon in modern usage can to be taken to refer to any multi-barrel, externally powered, rapid-firing cannon. Weapons like the M61 and GAU-8 are often referred to as gatling guns. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject:
Re: (Lore & Ambient) How not to misinterpret the Yuri faction
EVA-251 wrote:
NimoStar wrote:
Even the Magnetron is called "[TELE]" in the game's files, revealing its true way of lifting: Telekinesis.
For a meta-post, you make an awfully common error of reading way too much into the names of various sections in the INI files.
Scrapped units and old names can still be found in the INIs as IDs.
The Sea Scorpion was once the cut Hydrofoil, Flak-Track was once known as Half-Track (if HTK is anything to go by).
TELE might have been a teleporting vehicle once for the Allies for all we know (NATBNK was most likely once meant as Soviet addition, but then became Yuri's).
Also, since you seem to want to go for realism here: Magnetrons are the little things in your microwave that make your food go hot.
(Magnetron in microwave emits electromagnetic radiation, supposedly at such a wavelength that only water molecules are affected by them)
Meaning a Magnetron should cook anything and everything to death.
Since the human body is 71% H2O, you should boil quickly
And when hitting tanks, it'll be like putting metal stuff in a microwave oven: de-/reflection all over, frying everyone around the target.
So t should've been like the Tiberian Sun Disruptor. QUICK_EDIT
Canonically, isn't the Lasher Tank a scrapped Soviet tank design? I could be wrong, but I recall it being spoken of in that manner in the campaign. Concept art shows it to be a rather conventional tank with a sort of plow on front- nothing scrappy about it.
I have seen or remember nothing to indicate the Lasher tank was a soviet tank. In fact its design is very un-soviet.
The turret of the tank is distinctively a boxy pre-WW2 shape. The "Plow" is not a plow, rather it is a rotating
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As for the Floating Disk, exaggerated details are a hallmark of games that have to use low-fidelity visuals. Early 3D RTSs (and their mods) like Generals would use giant rivets for instance, to fill in otherwise blank space on textures, as weld-seams/proper rivets wouldn't show up on the tiny textures used. And obviously, RA2's voxel system is even lower fidelity than that.
In a void, this could be true, however it is not a convincing argument in context.
For example, Allied units don't have exposed seams and welding points.
They could have made a sleek looking DISK like indeed they made sleek looking Nod aircraft, Westwood chose this look *deliberately* and you are not giving them anough credit. The disk is even textured in a way to emphatize its hapzard nature.
Also see the Gatling tank in the picture, that is based on a 3D model - you can see the welding points even if the Voxel doesn't show anything. If anything, the details that they *wanted* to show with the ancient machining was too much for the voxels, not vice versa. The design of the Gatling tank you can see there has a clear low tech World War One style.
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For a meta-post, you make an awfully common error of reading way too much into the names of various sections in the INI files.
While I admit the "TELE" was the one that required more guessing, it is a unit that moves stuff at a distance... in a psychic faction.
Is it so hard to supposse it was to be a telekinetic unit?
There is no previous unit named "TELE", unlike Patriot site being NASAM.
However, it is true it was made into a magnetic-based unit, at least later. Though that doesn't discount the magnetism may be psychic ("bending spoons", for example)
***
Magnetron/TELE aside, the Yuri artwork clearly displays the cobbled together nature of their units. The Lasher tank art shows clearly it's old-style boxy turret, that doesn't fit a more modern design paradigm of the body. To it, there is a hapzardly attached grinder roller which is clearly not part of the original tank (look at it without the roller, for example in official concept art here https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Lasher_tank#Gallery). Probably the added roller is an extension of the Grinder structure tech/aesthetics. It also has exposed fuel piping visible in all concept arts and even the voxel, which the other tanks don't have.
2020-12-28 00_23_49-lasher tank - Búsqueda de Google.png
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:56 am Post subject:
NimoStar wrote:
I have seen or remember nothing to indicate the Lasher tank was a soviet tank. In fact its design is very un-soviet.
csofu47.wav in audiomd.mix
"We suspect Yuri stole the plans for the Lasher Tank from our research department, but don't worry commander, we abandoned that project because the tank was too weak."
And the design isn't that "un-Soviet." Soviet vehicles in RA2 have very angular, faceted hulls and turrets. Renders for the Rhino and Apocalypse support this.
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Also see the Gatling tank in the picture, that is based on a 3D model - you can see the welding points even if the Voxel doesn't show anything. If anything, the details that they *wanted* to show with the ancient machining was too much for the voxels, not vice versa. The design of the Gatling tank you can see there has a clear low tech World War One style.
You're wrong on the ancient machinery. The gatling guns depicted in the installer renders are patterned after modern rotary cannons.
But that doesn't even really matter, as the entire Gatling Tank concept is nonsense, even by CNC's pitifully low standards.
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However, it is true it was made into a magnetic-based unit, at least later. Though that doesn't discount the magnetism may be psychic ("bending spoons", for example)
Sofia explains that it uses electro-magnetic field to drag tanks toward it. (csofu48.wav)
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The Lasher tank art shows clearly it's old-style boxy turret, that doesn't fit a more modern design paradigm of the body.
All of the Soviet tanks have angular turrets like the Lasher's. And in no way is the hull a modern design paradigm. A stepped, almost unsloped glacis plate is evocative of 1930s era tank design. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Modders have "overestimated" his powers, now they make his faction have these "futuristic" thing, in Mental Omega alone, unlike other mods which heavily modify Yuri's army, it's clear that Yuri has these "futuristic" units, like the Irkalla, or even more "futuristic", there is a hand-shaped (some rare mods have it too) vehicle that mind control units, isn't that too "futuristic"?
Also, that's why he has no harvesters, instead, he uses slaves to harvest ore. _________________ If you are a MetalHead (Heavy Metal Fan) and don't want to be a metalhead, Just remove your metal ball from your head. �:p .
QUICK_EDIT
Modders have "overestimated" his powers, now they make his faction have these "futuristic" thing, in Mental Omega alone, unlike other mods which heavily modify Yuri's army, it's clear that Yuri has these "futuristic" units, like the Irkalla, or even more "futuristic", there is a hand-shaped (some rare mods have it too) vehicle that mind control units, isn't that too "futuristic"?
Also, that's why he has no harvesters, instead, he uses slaves to harvest ore.
I dont like mods that balance the mastermind. Way back when modding this game first began, everyone would remove the Masterminds unlimited mindcontrol ability, and rationalize it by putting 4 Psi Corps troops in its hull instead. Too much realism can kill it, but not enough realism makes it stupid.
After all of these years i have realized that giving yuri an anti-air infantry over powers him. Since gattling and gattling tanks are so effective.
Yuri has no trading partners so he has to use scrap and slaves in order to get resources. Soviet and Allied nations are large trading empires that have interior global support and trade networks.
Yuri is the only reason there is a war in the first place. So Ra3 soviets had to be stupid as hell to justify it. But in ra2 the only reason soviets waged war were because Romanov was under mind control.
I am not your pet Mr President.
You call them off Alex
You call them off.
tbh Mental Omega here has added some quite nice stuff for Yuri http://mentalomega.com/index.php?page=epsilon_techtree
they have made a much much darker version of yuri than we see in the official games. Seems alot less comedic than the Canon version of Yuri. Its clearly set quite abit into the future, as if Yuri had became alot more powerful than by canon he is. I like the raven alot, it looks like a Spy plane or something, who knows. Looks pretty good though. The devs here have made the factions alot larger. Whereas my preference is to keep yuri as is, or add minor improvements and generally create a secondary unique yuri faction to explore his backstory and expand on some of his techs a little bit.
Interestingly it appears they have removed the Boomer entirely and they gave him the squid, but made it a Recon unit. Which is interesting, because the squid by default doesnt have good line of sight, and so doesnt make effective map explorer or recon. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:40 pm Post subject:
I was gonna get carried away with a wall of text, but I will "break it down a bit".
His technology was actually pre-existing before he went rogue, so the sloppy craftmanship was likely existent because it's a low priority to him rather than an issue on his part. You will see that his tech was existent before he branched off the Soviet Union in the YR campaign, if he really wanted good craftmanship he would have just had it done while it was on the Soviet's tab. Finally, it is really implied he prioritizes technology over polish, but in spite that he has a lot of units with seems to have both, the Boomer being a huge example of both fine craftmanship and versatile technology in a small unit. Chances are, units like the floating disks are made sloppy because they don't need to be great, their technology makes up for it.
Yuri is absolutely the epitome of that technologically advanced image he is widely given. In vanilla game, he is so advanced that the soviets actually downgraded in technology from his leave (with one inconsistent overlook being the giant squid, which may have been a mistake or a placeholder that was never addressed). He has mastered genetics to the point he has super humans under his arsenal, created cloning as a technology, has mastered practical and rapid recycling measures, managed to make mankind such a feasible powersource that his powerplants actually outpowers his oppositions, and he even managed to create mind control. He has altered or created viruses, gasses that manipulates the mind, and genetically produced brains so much larger than humans and gave them the sole purpose to be a tank.
He clearly views himself as superior to the rest of the human race, even in spite not actually being super human. We can see that his ability to mind control comes from technology, his own body has wiring he gives his own troops. While they're called Yuri Clones, they're likely not clones based on their vocals. It seems he views humans as nothing more than pawns, his own troops even, and that is likely why he uses recycling, bio-reactors, and slavery rather than a reliance on it. As far as resources goes, his whole force was based on the Soviet Union's resources for some time and then later the whole world. The loading screen shows late game territory from the campaign, it's not a reliable demonstration of his power, that wasn't his forces territory initially for he was actually in control of the whole world and it was the player in the campaign that barely changed that; this means he likely didn't work hard producing bases to gather resources because he was not necessary at the time, not because he was desperate and couldn't get better.
There is the possibility Yuri has superpowers, but let's not mistake that as it being magic. The powers he has is entirely from technology, even the lightning we see him produce in his sprite. The magnetron uses magnetic technology, this is cannon, the thing nobody was supposed to see doesn't change that, and even if it did use telepathic powers that doesn't change the fact it was technology that allows it to use said magic. In the end, either you agree Yuri uses very advanced technology to produces his weapons or Yuri uses very advanced technology to produce magic which his weapons uses, regardless we know he didn't magically appear with any of this and that USSR funded wiring he has on his back and the back of his head implies that.
Also, his slave miners are probably more advanced and uses more expensive technology than a regular miner and refinery combined. QUICK_EDIT
, the Boomer being a huge example of both fine craftmanship and versatile technology in a small unit.
The boomer doesn't use "high technology" though, it's just a big sub with missiles.
And the "fine craftmanship" may not be what it seems. The Boomer sub has the Unnatural tag, meaning it is possibly not entirely mechanical. Its shape is quite suggestive of something biological. Squids punch it like a Dolphin instead of grabbing it like a ship. I say this may be partly organic.
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The powers he has is entirely from technology
Laughtable proposition since we see egyptian mummies walking around in his campaign. Yuri is explicitely supernatural.
The wiring in his body are merely amplifiers of his parapsychological powers.
Furthermore, it is pretty crude as well.
In the Red Alert 2 installation we see Yuri with Joseph Stalin in the early 20's. He already had his implants back then so this isn't a new super-sophisticated technology, they are rather old.
Furthermore, he doesn't seem to have aged, which is much like Kane. His ancient egyptian connection and the fact he has hebrew letters tatooed on his forehead are other clues to the possibility that Yuri is immortal. However this is derailed speculation.
The thing we know for sure is that Yuri uses manual slave labor, grinds people for resources, and his conventional weapons seem as a rule old and poorly constructed. The "he doesn't do commerce" is not a good explanation of slave labor, surely commerce would rather be a good point to do slave labor to compete having lower prices. If anything, the true explanation would be Yuri doesn't care for diplomacy since he can just mind control people to get what he wants.
And for a last point, the early "Yuri's army" in RA2:YR may be a consequence of messing with the timeline. This is much like RA1 and RA3 where going back in time changes technological development, ion the last case leading to the existence of the Empire of the Rising Sun. In fact, without the timeshift, the last mission of RA2 Soviet campaign (probably the hardest mission of the entire game, expansion included) has you facing Yuri and he only uses a curated Soviet tech.
But anyways your posts seems more based in that you like MO yuri than in reality...
As I said, I don't want to disqualify "alternate" interpretations, just stablish the original's facts. If Westwood had intended MO yuri they would have not given him old tanks, slave miners and gatling guns. In fact MO gives him a stealth miner (wut, yuri stealth? Stealth mining?), and a sophisticated Stealth tank, and several energy weapons, further cementing this is more Nod than Yuri. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I like RA3 as in i have played it to death. But i dont like the design of RA3 in terms of its poor storyline, how they made a complete joke out of the soviets, and ultimately the feminization of Yuri into Yuriko Omega.
But lets take a look at what exactly Yuri is wearing on his head.
There is no way he could have installed that head piece himself, Its connected to areas on the back of his skull. There is also no evidence superior soviet engineers installed that device into his skull either.
So who is controlling Yuri? and are they using this Head Technology? Is this what makes his psychic powers convincing? Or has somebody helped make some technology to amplify his powers?
The lack of Yuri campaign in the base game fails to explore this. And Mental Omega steers course into a complete other world yet -
Notice how the executrix from Emperor Battle for Dune, this is Westwoods own design, Ordos is mostly a westwood created house of dune; notice how they use a similar Yuri-like mind plug for their leader. This thing rules the empire, and the empire of Ordos is disloyal, consistent of mercenaries and slaves and gholas (clones) who fight without honour, but for profits. This reminds me of the Slave miner voicelines, he isnt a clone, or a mind controlled servant like Initiates and mind controlled civiliians sound like. He his here by choice, and he enjoy himself. The Ordos would also use Gas weaponry to effectively mind control enemy vehicles. They are also described as using Forbidden Technologies, exactly the same as Yuri.
Yuri's frontline infantry literally want to be like him, they want to be connected to his great psychic energy, and ultimately to whoever installed that device onto the back of his head, and of whom would occasionally speak directly through Yuri; this is the source of the ability to mind control.
The ability to mindcontrol is the ability to convince, Mastermind aside, the ability to mindcontrol on the basis that you are superior requires evidence that you are superior. Alien wires and technology installed on somebodies head; and using them as a vessel to communicate; this is convincing that you are superior and unearthly and have superior friends of whom are aiding you.
So who is controlling Yuri? and are they using this Head Technology? Is this what makes his psychic powers convincing? Or has somebody helped make some technology to amplify his powers?
I watched that video months ago, and it's almost accurate, to look at more theories, here's the same YouTube channel again: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUNGca8FdUxvEkAyMKveJuZGp6HOSwrUs _________________ If you are a MetalHead (Heavy Metal Fan) and don't want to be a metalhead, Just remove your metal ball from your head. �:p .
QUICK_EDIT
Ive seen his Boris ra3 vid before but i just watched this one full while eating dinner. And yeah its all a stretch of the mind.
It indicates that there is a mastermind behind the story of these games and that alot of effort goes into the story of these games and how they all connect. When truth is, aside vague interpretation there isnt any solid concrete evidence that Crazy Ivan here, aka Kane; is involved in ra2. Dont get me wrong, i believe that Tib Sun works Red Alert into it's storylines to make the games more interesting, but Red Alert never works Tib Sun into it's storylines. Ive always viewed Red Alert as the better game in the franchizes. Even in ra3, i don't play the tib sun franchise at all, and i own a bunch of their games that came with a multipack, but i only bought that multipack to obtain Ra3 and Uprising.
In my mind i just cant ever see an interaction between Yuri and Kane, where at least Yuri isn't the superior. I think if we wound up with a Ra4 game that had all of this cross-over content, it would be executed really badly and a huge disapointment, QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:56 am Post subject:
NimoStar wrote:
The boomer doesn't use "high technology" though, it's just a big sub with missiles.
This is spectacular from an engineer's perspective. It is superior to other rival nation's naval technology, perhaps being beaten by the Dolphin.
NimoStar wrote:
And the "fine craftmanship" may not be what it seems. The Boomer sub has the Unnatural tag, meaning it is possibly not entirely mechanical. Its shape is quite suggestive of something biological. Squids punch it like a Dolphin instead of grabbing it like a ship. I say this may be partly organic.
This is a weird argument. This is nothing more than speculation based on code, something of which is never relevant. To then further argue it's biological in nature, this would only further argue Yuri's Technology, not argue he uses less.
NimoStar wrote:
Laughtable proposition since we see egyptian mummies walking around in his campaign. Yuri is explicitely supernatural.
Mummies are not an argument for whether Yuri himself is supernatural or not. Yuri's campaign was never cannon, so it's not reasonable to use it as a source of argument. What Westwood did with his campaign only argues they had fun when they make it, not argue against him being supernatural or not. Even if I am wrong and he is supernatural, the fact he uses technology to amplify it only further implies he is technology driven.
NimoStar wrote:
In the Red Alert 2 installation we see Yuri with Joseph Stalin in the early 20's. He already had his implants back then so this isn't a new super-sophisticated technology, they are rather old.
I am not going to argue against something like this that's not absolute, it's up to perception. I think you're personally overreading this and is not 100% Westwood's hint he is anything except Yuri. I personally believe it was just an overlooked mistake, this happens sometimes even in Westwood's games. With that said, it's fair game for fan fiction but it's not an argument against him being low technology based.
NimoStar wrote:
Furthermore, he doesn't seem to have aged, which is much like Kane. His ancient egyptian connection and the fact he has hebrew letters tatooed on his forehead are other clues to the possibility that Yuri is immortal. However this is derailed speculation.
Speculation indeed. It is not impossible he hasn't aged merely because the actor didn't change. It is possible his tattoos mean something, but we will never know. However, because nothing was ever elaborated upon them, it's up to fans to decide. We do not know if he has an actual ancient connection to egypt based on cannon campaign, nor would it change anything if he did and were immortal since that doesn't change the fact Yuri uses advanced technology similar to how Nod has in their games.
NimoStar wrote:
The thing we know for sure is that Yuri uses manual slave labor, grinds people for resources, and his conventional weapons seem as a rule old and poorly constructed. The "he doesn't do commerce" is not a good explanation of slave labor, surely commerce would rather be a good point to do slave labor to compete having lower prices. If anything, the true explanation would be Yuri doesn't care for diplomacy since he can just mind control people to get what he wants.
Fair, then let's agree this does not argue against him being advanced either.
NimoStar wrote:
But anyways your posts seems more based in that you like MO yuri than in reality...
Kind of a lazy way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong". I am not a fan of MO, and I have not played it since its very early days which was over fifteen years ago, not that I would magically be "poisoned" if it were otherwise.
NimoStar wrote:
As I said, I don't want to disqualify "alternate" interpretations, just stablish the original's facts. If Westwood had intended MO yuri they would have not given him old tanks, slave miners and gatling guns.
I understand your intentions for it's the same as mine (we are having a discussion), but I do not feel you argued them well in mind of Yuri as a whole. Many of Yuri's creations were clean and polished, some were not. Yuri clearly capitalizes on guerilla tactics which includes causing his enemies to lose control and coordination, but he uses technology and science nobody else has, like flying saucers which is the epitome of sci-fi technology. If we had to have a dick-measuring contest among the factions, I do sincerely feel Yuri is top tiered as far as technology and science goes, he's a scientist after all and that actually was implied by Westwood as his style. He is not some low classed terrorist group, he incredibly industrial.
While I do believe his technology has the most scientific merit, I do sincerely believe the Allies are supposed to be the most advanced of them all by game design and concept. However, even in spite Yuri's lack of polish on many units, that isn't the case in my opinion. I do believe that the Allies *should* be the most advanced in mods, but to claim Yuri is supposed to be the GLA is a massive exaggeration to what he really is. If anything, the least advanced label belongs to the soviets, for they're all about firepower, heavy armor, and the occasional kamikaze unit. I feel the soviets better describes the low tech label. QUICK_EDIT
And the "fine craftmanship" may not be what it seems. The Boomer sub has the Unnatural tag, meaning it is possibly not entirely mechanical. Its shape is quite suggestive of something biological. Squids punch it like a Dolphin instead of grabbing it like a ship. I say this may be partly organic.
The real reason the boomer gets squid punch is that they hadnt designed a counter to squid grab for either yuri or the soviets. Since unlike terrordrone there is no way to move the unit when its been grabbed. So returning to the subpen for heals isnt viable. Which would make the giant squid a hard counter of the boomer. So i guess the oversight resulted in okay, well lets make the boomer immune to hard counter from squids. Instead of give yuri the squid, and give soviets a squid counter like the dolphin. (this is the basis of every mod i have ever made)
Which reminds me.
Yuri has the grinder in that he can scrap terror drone vehicles if he can make it home in time. But his sub pen performs repairs on his naval unit(s). I would go a step further, and would consider have his sub pen grind naval units and remove its repair functionality. Give him the squid, but nerf it into a wild spawn from an Angler sub, and then buff the boomer to full OP status at the battlelab. Giving an intermittent sub similar in affect to the scorpion but higher tech. Maybe even an aircraft jammer, with typhoon torpedos. Something out of the Bermuda Triangle.
Soviets would get the primary attack sub, followed by the fast yet weak scorpion.
Allies get the multipurpose destroyer, followed by the aegis advanced anti-air
Yuri get the Angler Sub, followed by the Multi-Sub that basically gives him some reliable submerged firepower, and delayed-fire anti-air capability; for a mid range cost, beneath 2000, above 1000. Probably around 1600. With his first tier sub costing around 800-1000 again dipping that low tech range since its fast tactical unit that could barely withstand a direct torpedo hit. QUICK_EDIT
So who is controlling Yuri? and are they using this Head Technology? Is this what makes his psychic powers convincing? Or has somebody helped make some technology to amplify his powers?
Beyond the accurate reflections on the abortive Incursions game, this video is hardcore bs, don't even get me started. Just a few things:
1) Just because there is a shared meta/development history between two games, and the unit designs for the Scrin faction get passed to the team working on the Yuri faction, there is no reason to think they share a development history in-universe. That is like saying TF2 and Quake share a universe because TFC is based on the Quake engine.
2) Shooting someone with Tiberium is lethal. There is absolutely no indication that shooting someone with Tiberium is lethal because it makes their bodies swell and burst into clouds of Tiberium gas (which, by the way, damages vehicles and buildings, which Virus gas doesn't). Shooting someone with Tiberium also somewhat frequently mutates them into Visceroids (see Renegade), which Virus' weapon doesn't do ever. Tiberium also does not reliably mutate anyone into anything predictable or determinable, like a Brute; most people die, some mutate into Visceroids, some become Initiates (of the Renegade type, not Yuri type), some become more human-like mutants and some, indeed, become Marauders. And in no case does mutating someone with Tiberium cause them to become loyal to the faction that mutated them (as seen in Renegade), as the Genetic Mutator does. Sure, we might say that it is, uh, Tiberium [Yurifica], a special strain of Tiberium created by Yuri to do all those things. But at that point, I'm sure we'll also find a plausible way of saying that Yuri is an Age of Empires Priest, or the Mouth of Sauron, escaped from their respective games/timelines.
3) The Flying Disc's unlimited energy, uh, yes. Where does the Kirov get its infinite supply of bombs from, then? I suppose we have to believe it has a miniature Chronosphere on board that teleports them in all the way from Mother Russia? And what about all of the ground units, for that matter? You need more vodka, comrade.
4) Afaik, the idea that those tubed bodies in CABAL's base are clones of Kane (thereby explaining how he could return each time after seemingly having been killed, à la Monsieur Ming) is outdated; those are the "great minds" of the Brotherhood, interred in the supercomputer to give it computational power and tactical expertise.
Finally, why go through all that convolution of saying that Kane owned a castle in Transylvania that he then gifted to Yuri and all that, when it's far more elegant to say that Yuri was born as a human being, into a family in Romania who lived in, or at some point owned, this castle, he then joined the Brotherhood in nearby Yugoslavia, Kane somehow gave him psychic powers, then all of the rest happened, rather than saying Kane created him in a retort and then bought him a house. It just doesn't make sense. There's no need to say that at all, not even accepting the storyline/lore of Incursions makes it necessary.
edit: Oh also, being a descendant of Adam, at least in any mythology which features Adam, doesn't make you a Hebrew. It makes you a human. All Jews are humans, but not all humans are Jews. But all of this is moot because Kane is not a human, but an alien. And if you want to say, well, then he's an alien who is descended from Adam but also a Hebrew, then you have to explain how he is the only alien Jew who is a Jew because he descended from Adam, or you have to say allJews are from space.
One thing I have never seen anyone point out; we only really see Yuri way before he is ready. Because in the very first mission, we travel back in time. So who knows how high-tech Yuri's actual arsenal is, who knows what wonders and secrets he has - we only see him when he is not at all ready to be seen, when he is still in hiding, scavenging resources by any means possible to somehow try to prevent these two massive hyperpowers from the future from hunting down his completely unprepared hodgepodge forces.
Hence the idea for my mod; what actually happens between the end of RA2 and the beginning of YR (i.e. before the Allies and/or Soviets travel back in time to the beginning of RA2, which they do in the first mission of YR)? QUICK_EDIT
If Yuri had the time and resources it would probably be more boring and space-like; mostly metal as that would be the most durable thing to build with obviously instead of brick and scrap. He wouldn't have a need for a Grinder or something akin to that.
See the rocket as what he invested most of his resources into:
_________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
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(Lore & Ambient) How not to misinterpret the Yuri faction
