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OS HVA Builder 2.2 WIP 1
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G-E
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:09 am    Post subject:

Sorry maybe...
XxpeddyxX
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:09 am    Post subject:

Just tried opening the turret's voxel alone, if I add a new frame it shows 2/0, not 1/2 or 2/2. You try and move the voxel around in the second frame and it forces itself straight back to its original position. Fun times.
E1 Elite
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:15 am    Post subject:

If the turret has its own HVA file, you open the turret's voxel (not the main unit's voxel) and then change it.
For animation, you make main unit with sections.

@G-E: Not authorized to download from your link, is it private?
G-E
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:18 am    Post subject:

BTW Guys, I had stucuk fix the turret offset to match the game, I don't know if the bug you're describing exists peddy, but figure someone here will find it handy...

http://www.ppmforums.com/download.php?id=59431
XxpeddyxX
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for the useful response as usual. I've tried different resolutions, as soon as I put the slider into frame 2 or beyond I am no longer able to use HVA position/rotation. The part won't go at all.

Could it be the voxel itself? It was fine at first, now it won't let me do it to any voxel's turrets, I can do it to "body" type voxels but not turrets.
E1 Elite
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject:

If you are running the tool in default windowed mode of 800x600 size or less, you may not see the animation
slider fully. Keep the slider on frame 2 or whatever you want and then make changes. It works and saves with
WIP6 properly.

Tips: If you make the grid.png of 2000x2000 pixel size, you can draw radial lines for say 30/45/60 degrees. It
can help in finding angles for rotation.
XxpeddyxX
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject:

Having a really annoying issue with HVA frames. the application won't let me change anything on frames 2 and up on any voxel, new or not.

The only way I can make frame 2+ different from frame 1 is by editting frame 1, copying it, then edditing frame 1 back to normal. If I do it this way the normals of the animation in game come out weird and doens't match the actual voxel.
Lin Kuei Ominae
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject:

Graion Dilach wrote:
I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

I have no experience with Wine, but maybe it's just a simple mistake like forgotten quotation marks around the parameter file. And when you try to load the voxel from a path with space characters, the program thinks it gets 2 parameters.
e.g.
In windows you also have to write in the registry
\PathToProgram\HVABuilder.exe "%1"
note the "%1"
Otherwise a file from D:\My Voxel\test.vxl would be seen as 2 parameter from the program
D:\My being the first
Voxel\test.vxl the second parameter
stucuk
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:44 am    Post subject:

Graion Dilach wrote:
I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

Could be Wine being an issue - running a Linux here - but both SHPBuilder both VXLSE works fine.


It traces to the bit that inserts a HVA frame, which is never called when you open a HVA. Its only called when you manually add a frame or copy one.

Either its a Wine issue or Wine doesn't use the same memory mapping as windows (Thus the location wouldn't match).

I tried opening a hva by supplying the app the full path to it and it loaded it without issue.
Graion Dilach
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject:

I'm having a bug with WIP6 - associating it to voxels cause an error on startup. Clicking OK loads the program without any voxels opened. Actual voxels look fine when opened manually though.

Could be Wine being an issue - running a Linux here - but both SHPBuilder both VXLSE works fine.
Mig Eater
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:43 am    Post subject:

I made multiple vxls of various sizes & placed them ingame on a special terrain tile grid, 43x43x18 was the closest match.
G-E
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject:

BTW the silly bug with the title changing to model.vxl.vxl when you save is still there Smile
G-E
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject:

Graion Dilach wrote:
FA2 isn't accurate.

FA2 doesn't scale voxels with their bounds, just a literal dot representation... there's no reason to think WW didn't tell Matze the correct formula?

Although if like I said 45 dots is the edge to edge distance, if voxel dots are handled 1:1 with tile pixels, and FA2 merely applied isometry to the voxel, you should in theory get the same result.

Mig Eater wrote:
LKO & I discussing the size of a cell sized vxl, which is 43x43x18.

All I see there is some assertion that it's 43...

Also a height level is 15 pixels when working on TMPs; so I even if the cell size was 43 voxels per 45 pixels, then how do you get 18 voxels per 15(+1 ground) pixels? There's something wrong in the assertion...
stucuk
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject:

Attached is WIP6. TurretOffset is now multiplied by 43/256 .

Banshee wrote:
Ok, I guess it is better to use textures in this case.


Forgot to reply to your comment.

Shaders should never be used instead of a single texture. They should only be used for either dynamic stuff (As in where either you have something thats animated in real time or where you have something like Bumpmapping where its calculated based on the current light directions/etc) or where you have multiple textures where you need to add them in a way you can't do by default.

They are just for giving more control, not for replacing a single static texture.
Mig Eater
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:55 am    Post subject:

LKO & I discussing the size of a cell sized vxl, which is 43x43x18.
Graion Dilach
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject:

FA2 isn't accurate.
Lin Kuei Ominae
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:46 am    Post subject:

45 voxel, I guess my guess was right Smile
G-E
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject:

If FA2 is reasonably accurate for unscaled voxels... 47x47 squares to show that 45 is indeed the correct amount of pixel per tile N-S and E-W.

The grid would be handy if you used tile edge boundaries for it instead of some arbitrary 2 dot distance. You would have a better idea of how the unit overlaps it's tile then.
G-E
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:05 pm    Post subject:

At a guess I'd say 90...

The voxel scale of 1/12th corresponds to leptons, leptons appear to be half the distance of the RA2 offset distances, and being as the isometric tiles are 60x30, therefore the intermediate X,Y should be 45...

So 45 tile distance, doubled to account for leptons is 90.

Draw a 45x45 voxel as just an outline and place it on a map on a single tile surrounded by other types of tile to clearly see the edge...
stucuk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject:

G-E wrote:
Put another way, TurretOffset is a 256-per-tile distance between the unit's origin and turret's origin.

A Cell/Tile is 256x256. But the question is how many voxels fit in that area.
G-E
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject:

LKO The turret offset is an absolute from the underlying vehicle's origin (0,0,0) along what we call Z but the voxel calls X axis.

The base unit's scale and voxel offset have nothing to do with it, only those belonging to the turret voxel itself matter (for rendering).

Put another way, TurretOffset is a 256-per-tile distance between the unit's origin and turret's origin.
Lin Kuei Ominae
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject:

stucuk wrote:
I have implemented TurretOffset but it is unlikely to match the games (Since i have no clue how many voxel's there are per map cell, i only know that there are 256 leptons per map cell).

I think you render voxels 1:1 without any scaling. Ingame however the voxel Bounds from the voxel header are used to raise/lower the distance of the voxel to each other, thus making them overlap or place further apart (often causing holes, e.g. the famous black hole syndrome)

So for a correct working TurretOffset you would have to find a way to render the voxel in the exact same size as the game.
Only then the specified TurretOffset in Leptons would visually match.

Btw, welcome back and really nice to see progress on this tool again. Approved!


\Edit
oh wait, I think I've misunderstood you.
The problem is not the scaling and leptons, but the actual size of a single rendered voxel compared to a cell (or leptons which are 256 per cell)
I guess the best way would be to create a line of voxel with 1:1 bounds and then count ingame, how many voxel fit in a cell.
Since cells are 60x30 pixel, i would guess 45 voxel in 1:1 size (no Bounds rescaling) would fit diagonally inside one cell (the unit standing diagonal, thus straight according to the diagonal cell grid).
In other words, a 45x45 voxel flat plane would cover exactly one cell.

The voxel pros here surely know this more exact.
HG_SCIPCION
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject:

oh, sorry... well, my PC is old (500mb ram free)

and thank you, the custom palette is perfect n.n
stucuk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject:

I have implemented TurretOffset but it is unlikely to match the games (Since i have no clue how many voxel's there are per map cell, i only know that there are 256 leptons per map cell).

I also made it so the buttons for View/Voxel Offset/HVA Position and HVA Rotation are down when that mode is the current one.

Attached is WIP 5.

HG_SCIPCION wrote:
the grapics card is from the windows installer :/ (windows 7) and yes... the file are in the folder...

:c


Graphics card is a part of your Computers hardware not software.
HG_SCIPCION
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject:

the grapics card is from the windows installer :/ (windows 7) and yes... the file are in the folder...

:c
stucuk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:13 pm    Post subject:

Graion Dilach wrote:
It works totally not like anything else. I think TurretOffset uses TS/RA2 leptons.

I know about the dividing by 256, just don't know if there is anything else that needs to be applied to it.

HG_SCIPCION wrote:
and this problem? ._.'

Its the Grid. What Graphics Card do you have? Did you extract the Grid.png to the same directory as the EXE? Does it always happen or only with certain voxels/etc.
HG_SCIPCION
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject:

stucuk!!!! *-*

yes, now HVA buildder is better... thank you!

and this problem? ._.'
Graion Dilach
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject:

It works totally not like anything else. I think TurretOffset uses TS/RA2 leptons.
stucuk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Found a bug with WIP 4. The hiding sections are toggled every time you click on a section (It just doesn't update the icon). Will be fixed in WIP 5 when its released.

G-E wrote:
Leave space for a TurretOffset input box Smile

Speaking of the turret offset, is it effected by hva/voxel scaling or is it just a value thats added on top.
G-E
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject:

Leave space for a TurretOffset input box Smile
stucuk
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject:

Next Build (See last attachment).

Interface is now cleaner and should be easier to use (No more drop downs!.. well technically they are still there but hidden...). You can now hide sections by clicking on their icons in the section list (It will always display the currently selected section irrespective of if you have set it to be hidden). This build also has the ability to set palettes for voxels (Only when loaded in HVA Builder).
Banshee
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Ok, I guess it is better to use textures in this case.
stucuk
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Banshee wrote:
Why don't you use a shader for the Grid? I think that the result would be more reliable than using a texture.


1. Minimum OpenGL 2.0 requirement (OS HVA is made using OpenGL 1.5 headers)
2. Texture with mipmapping looks perfectly acceptable
3. Waste of time coding for something which won't have any real noticeable difference.
4. People can modify a simple PNG (Which was simple to implement since it just uses the Ground system that OS VV uses and which is built into the VH Engine) in a paint application to change how their grid looks. They are less likely to be able to modify a shader (Well understand how to program it).
5. I am not actually sure if it would be better. Mipmaps smooth it out at further distances, but i would imagine a shader would suffer from the same problem as not using mipmaps where it would struggle to pick the right colour at distance.

EDIT: Looks overly complicated to even try and get past the problems and it doesn't look like you can't get a method thats cheap and which looks noticeably better.

- http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30842755/how-can-i-render-an-infinite-2d-grid-in-glsl
Banshee
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject:

stucuk wrote:
P.S If you want to change the Grid you just need to modify the grid.png file (You can change the colours, distance between lines and make it semi transparent). Technically you can have it at any size but it should be a power of two number to be safe (Older cards don't like sizes that are not power of two).


Why don't you use a shader for the Grid? I think that the result would be more reliable than using a texture.
stucuk
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject:

Been playing with the Interface. Still got stuff to do but it is cleaner (Making room for the Section List rather than a horrible drop down box).

Note that i know that the new icons on the new buttons look crap. But i am a programmer not an artist and its not important to me. If you want them to look nice you would need to send me nicer images (Ones you made yourself and didn't rip from other sources). In order they are Show Highlight, Draw Center, Draw Grid and Draw Section Center (The other settings were moved to the settings menu).

Custom palette system is technically implemented but you can't actually set the palette in the HVA Builder yet. What i have currently implemented is a system which will remember which palette you last used for a voxel (It uses the entire path to the file not just the filename so two files with the same name but different path are treated as seperate voxels). So once you have set the palette for a voxel you should never have to do so again (Unless you move it to a different folder or rename it #Tongue ). Note that it will only support 1 palette per unit (As in the barrel and turret will use the same palette as the base).

No new build yet, just a teaster.
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