Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject:
Help With Starting Programming (Programmers Only Please)
(This is to programmers only please)
Hey all,
Now I have some time to work on my goal of starting programming, I wanted to ask the programmers out there what sites are the best to help people who are starting out or books / e-books for that matter. I think I might go for C++… though my college tutor told me that Delphi is good to start out with too. So any help is good. Cheers
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject:
People I know always recommend Python as a good starting language. Delphi could be a good choice, since you could get involved in helping with OS SHP Builder/Voxel Editor when you've learnt a fair bit. I think C++ and C are considered quite high-level programming languages (C most of all, I think most OS kernels are built off this).
C# may even be a good choice, from what I've heard. Anyway, I'll be quiet now since my actual knowledge of languages is rather limited and just picked up from what other people have told me. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
lol i trust your knowledge , hmm someone has told me about python... but im not sure, i wanted to start on something and keep at it other than going back or forth... unless its easyer once you have one dialed? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:
As far as I know, most languages are fairly similar. I say that loosely because they all have their own quirks and differences. Just to give a few examples:
C wrote:
int main()
{
printf("Hello, world!");
return 0;
}
C++ wrote:
int main()
{
std::cout << "Hello, world!" << std::endl;
}
Pascal wrote:
program hello;
begin
writeln('Hello, world!');
end.
PHP wrote:
<?php
echo 'Hello, world!';
?>
Python wrote:
print "Hello, world!"
Of course, the echo/print command is a simple one, but it gives you a vague idea. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
I think C++ and C are considered quite high-level programming languages (C most of all, I think most OS kernels are built off this).
Actually C is a rather low-level language. The closer to hardware a language operates, the lower-level it is. Java, C# and other .NET stuff is considered high-level because they produce Intermediate Language (IL) code, which is run by a virtual machine (VM). As such, the VM, and not the language itself, caters for hardware/OS differences, and the language doesn't have to give a damn about processor bit count, endianism, architecture, OS's memory management or Programming Interfaces. That's why .NET (with Mono, for example) works on Win, nix, Mac, and other shit, although the underlying processors and other hardware differ greatly, not to mention the OS - the VMs transparently translate the program's calls to allocate memory blocks, for example, into ones appropriate for that OS.
From lowest level to highest:
Machine code, assembly, C, C++/Delphi, C#.
TShyper wrote:
Hey all,
Now I have some time to work on my goal of starting programming, I wanted to ask the programmers out there what sites are the best to help people who are starting out or books / e-books for that matter. I think I might go for C++… though my college tutor told me that Delphi is good to start out with too. So any help is good. Cheers
I think C/C++ are not the best choice for starters, mainly because C is low-level, where you have to cater for every little thing yourself, and learning C++ without C is rather ... silly. I would suggest Turbo Pascal (GUI-less, for DOS mostly) or Delphi (Windows) first, cause they make your life easy by hiding some stuff, then, as you learn more, you can move to C family. TP might be easier than Delphi to start with, because you have no Object Oriented Programming stuff. OOP is truly useful, but it is quite difficult to grasp. Once you learn Delphi, learning at least some C is still recommended, in order to comprehend the machine-level workings of the system.
If you're wondering about their purposes:
Raw C is used for real low-level hardcore stuff like hardware drivers/OS kernels, and rarely for small and simple programs.
C++/Delphi are used for most of the desktop applications, although C++ dominates the professional world. Also, Delphi is far less often used for game programming (the only game I recall made with Delphi is Age Of Wonders).
C#/Java are used for stuff that has to work on multiple OSes and is not time-critical(VM does add a certain amount of complexity by itself). Also, it seems to be growing in the desktop app market, threatening to overtake Delphi/C++ in some time. There have been rumours of Micro$oft using C# to create a completely new and Windows-unrelated OS, but that is just rumours.
Python/PHP are not really programming languages, but rather scripting ones, and they are used for web dynamification (woo, new word). And there's their ugly cousin Perl, often called a write-only language, which is loved by network administrators but causes horror to mere mortals. :p
(If you are still reading, you may have noticed I'm a geek. So, what else is new? ) QUICK_EDIT
lol geek? You should meet some of my friends anyways thanks very much for your input Dcoder... I will take it to note, I have been thinking a bit and I think Delphi is my best bet. I want to stay Windows orientated and still take it easy until I get used to the basics of what programming is. If I was to start out with Delphi now, what things would I need? (E.g. books, websites and the so).
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Actually C is a rather low-level language. The closer to hardware a language operates, the lower-level it is. Java, C# and other .NET stuff is considered high-level because they produce Intermediate Language (IL) code, which is run by a virtual machine (VM). As such, the VM, and not the language itself, caters for hardware/OS differences, and the language doesn't have to give a damn about processor bit count, endianism, architecture, OS's memory management or Programming Interfaces. That's why .NET (with Mono, for example) works on Win, nix, Mac, and other shit, although the underlying processors and other hardware differ greatly, not to mention the OS - the VMs transparently translate the program's calls to allocate memory blocks, for example, into ones appropriate for that OS.
Well I did admit to not knowing much . To be honest, I actually meant that it requires a higher level of skill, but I suppose I used the wrong wording.
One thing I forgot to mention yesterday, Borland doesn't give Delphi away for free... But if you manage to find the install package somewhere, they'll give you a valid serial number for it It is also possible to find Delphi on a CD of some pc magazine. Or you might be eligible to get a copy of it from your school for educational purposes, who knows.
As for documentation... well, I learned the most about Delphi by simply clicking around in it, but I already knew the basic programming concepts then. I have a couple of Delphi e-books but they will not be of much use without knowing the basics. QUICK_EDIT
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Help With Starting Programming (Programmers Only Please)
, hmm someone has told me about python... but im not sure, i wanted to start on something and keep at it other than going back or forth... unless its easyer once you have one dialed?
)
It is also possible to find Delphi on a CD of some pc magazine. Or you might be eligible to get a copy of it from your school for educational purposes, who knows.
