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Medium Tank from GDI?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject:  Medium Tank from GDI?
Subject description: If Mammoth wasn't enough...
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This screenie revealed in E³ shows a new infantry and a kind of medium tank from GDI. At least, it is from the same side than the Mammoth. Did they forgot about mechs or something? Why GDI has so much low tech stuff?

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red_rebel
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Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, keep in mind that nod stuff wasnt shown in the trailer either, does that mean that there wont be a Bortherhood any more? i think not! so IMO, i think that EA is either not done w/ some, or just making us wait even more like we have for the past 6 years.

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CCHyper
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

they might have to revert back to old tech because of the terrain (not fully showen yet) or maybe there are mechs..... but only used the in blue GDI zones

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Allied General
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

maybe mechs r limited in production or just too costly or whatever or just gone into advanced units

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raminator
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmmm...
first time i saw any screens or info about this game i thoughed i could be a connection between ra2 and td
-lowtech units only shown that don´t really fit for post ts period
-the medium/light tank looks like the ren2grizzly (specially the turret)

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Anderwin
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is nice grafic #Tongue.

btw mabye GDI dont have got so much money from the last war.

And them see the mech was not so good them think them was just what i think^^.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Didn't someone say this Tiberium Wars replaces TS? If it does...then ztype!

If not, maybe GDI has just lost their position as the Biggest Global Group, maybe Brotherhood is now at the Top O' The World...

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Red Dragon
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yuri 05 wrote:
Didn't someone say this Tiberium Wars replaces TS? If it does...then ztype!

If not, maybe GDI has just lost their position as the Biggest Global Group, maybe Brotherhood is now at the Top O' The World...


Possible. But GDI isn't that lowtech. Maybe EA realised that mecha's were stupid or something Confused

Anyway, the screenshot looks very god. Now keep praying that EA won't screw it up... Confused

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XxpeddyxX
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.

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Zodiac
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The medium tank looks like the TFD poster tank and Renegade light tank mix #Tongue

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THE Protagonist
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the medium tank might be replacing the titan Sad NOOOO I LOVE THE TITAN!!!!!

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Zodiac wrote:
The medium tank looks like the TFD poster tank and Renegade light tank mix #Tongue


Hmmm....




Considering the size of the turret, they definitelly scrapped the TFD medium tank concept, people.

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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so people, start modelling it for renegade

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Clarkson
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cant use it in renegade anyway. Zero bug. or everybody'd have beta light tanks, meds, harvies, ect running around.

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tanks low tech? Nope... I firmly believe the tank is instrumental to any war machine. Mechs will be revealed hopefully, in due time.

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Von Kriplespac
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I love that Medium tank..it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside -- From a HEAT round...

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ChielScape
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HEAT doesnt have anything to do with heat as in warmth. High Explosive Anti Tank.

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And I dont that in this distant future any army would have the idiocy of deploying tanks that can only fire HEAT.

This tank probably fires a HVDU round, with a HEAT round as a secondary round. I doubt this sort of customizability will be available, and in true CNC fashion, it will just say X mm cannon.

Quite possibly it could be an electromagnetic railgun. Such a weapon could allow a tank shell could be propelled at speeds up 3000MPH. One problem, the shells integrity.

If this new GDI tank mounts some 120mm cannon with an AP round, I will gouge myself with a spoon.
Not the convential cannon.

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DedmanWalkin
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This tank seems to have a missile pod to the left of the turret. Perhaps this tank is a Demi-Mammoth support vehicle with a higher firing rate but lower firepower meant to support Mammoths in battle.

They might also include some low-level Generals system in which different commanders have access to different technology. This tank may be the 'Tank' Commander's replacement for the Titan.

In reality though, Tanks >>>> Mechs. Mechs are too tall, too fragile, and overall a big waste of resources and technology. The Titan is an unneeded piece of crap. If the GDI had put its resources into building tanks with the same technology and knowhow used to make the Titan, they could have fielded far superior tanks than Nod's pitiful Tick Tank. Likewise, the Juggernaut could have been replaced by a far superior tracked artillery piece, possibly without the requirement to deploy. The MMKII is the only relevant usage of mech technology because it has four legs and requires its height to keeps its Rail Cannons from obliterating its allies. However, given the need for balance and gameplay, the GDI got 'nerfed' in the power it actually has. I actually like that the C&C3 team is taking into account real world physics and knowledge to create a more realistic view of what the future of warfare will look like. So while we all like big huge walking machines of death, they make very little, if any, sense to deploy in reality.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Totally agrees with above poster.

Brilliant! Absolutely correct.

The mech has no future in the real world or even in conception. The hi-profile of a mech makes it a nice target for a team of AT soldiers. You know, hit a mech with some advanced Javelin missile type rocket on the leg, and watch it come tumbling down.

I agree fully with the Titan. A tank similiar to the Abrams would
1: Provide better protection
2: make for better fire power
3: make for a lower profile
4: Easier production costs
5: Easier upgradability.

The mech will never see service on the Planet Earth. Gravity and Terrain do not agree on the mech concept.

The Mammoth Mark II, you are correct.
Besides, with its rail guns, a tank would have difficulty mounting weapons such size.

I feel that an armored vehicle of some type, preferably tracked, could mount smaller cannons, like the Ghost Stalkers unrealistic mirco-rail gun and mix that with an advanced composite armor chassis, to make a better unit.

Summary:
Tank > Mech in:
Reliability
Protection
Firepower
Mobility
Cost
Firing speed
Overall survivability

Tank < Mech in:
Vulnerability
Weakness
Unreliability
Profile
Fear factor

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DedmanWalkin
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually, guns the size of the MMKII's Rail Cannons could be supported by a tank of lesser size than the MMKII it is just that in firing it would hit all allied units thus killing them. A higher profile would be the preferred medium for Rail-Cannons given that it will be firing over the heads of its allies allowing for them to sit in the back and pound enemy units into dust while its support units mop up any units that escape or pose a threat. However, this special situation is the only one in which I could see the use of a mech to be plausible.

You forgot Speed in your list of Tank advantages.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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Elerium-155
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You forget that mechs can travel through all terrain. Tanks can get bogged down in it. In a Tiberium coated landscape, I believe this is needed. Mechs also don't need 4 crewman to pilot it as shown in TS cutscenes Titans are crewed by one person. Mechs also are more free to move around, unlike Tanks that are more clunky and mechs also have a height advantage. Judging by GDI's low numbers, Titans are probably needed for this, while the Brotherhood can easily just draft 4 people and stick them in a Tick Tank.

Letsee..

Reliability: Arguable. Mechs can be just as reliable as tanks if the reactor stops working.
Protection: Arguable. Look at the Mammoth MK2 and say that NOD doesn't have a counterpart to that.
Firepower: Arguable for various reasons (Railgun?)
Mobility: See bogged down in terrain.
Cost: Depends on the mech, a Titan can be roughly the same as a TT.
Firing speed: Arguable.
Survivability is arguable.

From what you are saying seems like blatent anti-mech propaganda:

Vulnerability: Depends if the pilot is dumb enough to bring himself into the open. Mechs can crouch you know, or technically they should.
Weakness: See protection.
Unreliability: See Reliability.
Fear factor: Indeed it is horrifying to see a mech coming out at you but same thing with a tank coming right at you.

Eventually speed will be overcome by mechs. Mechs would be able to run.

Thing is with mechs is that the GDI versions are probably in the first phase of evoloution, however this evoloution is needed because of GDI's low manpower. Eventually as mechs get refined, this will supersede the tank, although it may be some time before it does as it is still in it's first generation.

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
You forget that mechs can travel through all terrain. Tanks can get bogged down in it. In a Tiberium coated landscape, I believe this is needed. Mechs also don't need 4 crewman to pilot it as shown in TS cutscenes Titans are crewed by one person. Mechs also are more free to move around, unlike Tanks that are more clunky and mechs also have a height advantage. Judging by GDI's low numbers, Titans are probably needed for this, while the Brotherhood can easily just draft 4 people and stick them in a Tick Tank.


-Height is not an advantage. It is a downside. Mechs have difficulty with terrain, as combined your concept of high speed, they can trip.
Tanks dont have to worry about balance, and they dont neccessarily bog down always.

Letsee..

Quote:
Reliability: Arguable. Mechs can be just as reliable as tanks if the reactor stops working.

Mechs cannot be reliable, as they always have vulnerable points that cannot be fixed.

Quote:
Protection: Arguable. Look at the Mammoth MK2 and say that NOD doesn't have a counterpart to that.

I stated this, as mechs have movement joints, obviously a larger cockpit for a wider view of the battlefield, and could be hit here.

Quote:
Firepower: Arguable for various reasons (Railgun?)

Arguable, but no ,much.

Quote:
Mobility: See bogged down in terrain.

See tripping and obstacles.

Quote:
Cost: Depends on the mech, a Titan can be roughly the same as a TT.

Arguable? No. Realistically, to build a Titan, sheath it in armor, constructs its legs, arms, turret parts, cannon and the such, it would cost much more than the simple yet sturdy tick-tank. In terms of modern tanks, about 2 M1A2 SEPs could be made for 1 Titan.

Quote:
Firing speed: Arguable.

Tell me where a Titan could stow its ammo? Where could a auto-loader that is reliable be placed. BTW: Reliable and autoloader are not supposed to go in the same sentence. If the 1 man in the Titan had to load, aim, shoot and move, he would be overburdened.
Tanks have 4 crew mostly, to handle each role it. The M1A2 with a good crew can fire nearly as fast if not faster than T-72 with autoloader.
The design of a mech would make it even harder to fire fast.

Quote:
Survivability is arguable.

Combine the size of the mech with its speed and abundance of weak spots, and it is most prominent target on a battle field. That GDI Med Tank up above. Not a target at all when compared to a mech. Sleek, low profile.

From what you are saying seems like blatent anti-mech propaganda:

Quote:
Vulnerability: Depends if the pilot is dumb enough to bring himself into the open. Mechs can crouch you know, or technically they should.

That wont provide much cover. It would be decades before a mech would be able to rapidly crouch and reemerge as quickly as you say it would.

Weakness: See protection.
Unreliability: See Reliability.
Fear factor: Indeed it is horrifying to see a mech coming out at you but same thing with a tank coming right at you.

Eventually speed will be overcome by mechs. Mechs would be able to run.
Ok, running with a mech is bone-headed. Who agrees?
1: Increased risk of tripping on terrain
2: Increased risk of flattening friendlies
3: Wearing out the joints of the mech quicker
You killed your argument by saying that. Mechs are slow, and will stay slow.

Thing is with mechs is that the GDI versions are probably in the first phase of evoloution, however this evoloution is needed because of GDI's low manpower. Eventually as mechs get refined, this will supersede the tank, although it may be some time before it does as it is still in it's first generation.

You are looking at things from a Gundam like point of view... The fast, uber armored mech with the big gun.

The tank will never see replacement in a army in the forseeable future, and GDI I am sure knows this.
Mechs cannot supercede tanks because mechs are just not a viable option on this planet. Physics and tactics would beat them every time.

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Elerium-155
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

eva-251 wrote:

-Height is not an advantage. It is a downside. Mechs have difficulty with terrain, as combined your concept of high speed, they can trip.
Tanks dont have to worry about balance, and they dont neccessarily bog down always.


Tanks would bog down in a Tiberian environment. And having a mech that trips is very doubtful, unless it was a raven style mech. Tanks also run duds into obstacles too. If you say "they can clamber over it" then the mech can do the same. It's just that the mech is more suited to getting over the terrain. Lets see a M1A1 Abrams tank and a Titan both having to go through a lot of broken trees, and a lake. The tank would have problems going through the trees while the mech, although having some difficulty will be able to go through much more faster. In the lake, the tank will just not move through, or find it VERY difficult, while the mech will splash itself forward to it's destination.

Letsee..

Quote:

Mechs cannot be reliable, as they always have vulnerable points that cannot be fixed.

The vulnerable points are armoured? GDI designers would have thought of this before putting the Titan into mass production y'know.
Also, same thing with the tank, just aim for the front and boom. Rear armour also may be less than the front, but I'm not sure on this.

Quote:

Arguable, but not, much.

I would say that it is much. The firepower weilded by a mech can be easily swung around unlike the tank which has to wait a while to turn it's turret around.

Quote:

See tripping and obstacles.

Also the mech can reverse more easily than the tank.
Quote:

Arguable? No. Realistically, to build a Titan, sheath it in armor, constructs its legs, arms, turret parts, cannon and the such, it would cost much more than the simple yet sturdy tick-tank. In terms of modern tanks, about 2 M1A2 SEPs could be made for 1 Titan.

How do you know? GDI may have perfected the construction methods so that 2 Titans could be made from 1 M1A2 SEPs, due to the low manpower and costs.

Quote:

Tell me where a Titan could stow its ammo? Where could a auto-loader that is reliable be placed. BTW: Reliable and autoloader are not supposed to go in the same sentence. If the 1 man in the Titan had to load, aim, shoot and move, he would be overburdened.

The ammo would be stored in the lower torso, going up towards the cannons, of course these would be very shielded areas. The Titan doesn't need to have extra crew to load.. the autoloader does it anyhow. The man in the Titan just aims, points and shoots his cannon. About autoloaders being suceptable to jamming, we don't know, although I think that with 2030 technology this would be doubtful.
Quote:

Tanks have 4 crew mostly, to handle each role it. The M1A2 with a good crew can fire nearly as fast if not faster than T-72 with autoloader.
The design of a mech would make it even harder to fire fast.

Doubtful, autoloaders in the mech would negate this. Also 4 crew in a tank in this dark time would be comparable to the Titan's 1 crew, as the Brotherhood has more manpower resources. The design of the Titan would make it so that it would probably fire faster than an M1A2, in keeping with 2030 technology.
Quote:

The tank will never see replacement in a army in the forseeable future, and GDI I am sure knows this.

True, the tank will never see replacement, but I see the mech as a complimentary unit designed to help out the Tanks. Tanks will always rein supreme in the fields of mass battle/crushing assaults.. until we get to Gundam stages of course #Tongue But Gundams completely ignore the laws of physics and all (also a fusion plant on legs) so the chances of these coming to fruition is highly unlikely.
Quote:

Mechs cannot supercede tanks because mechs are just not a viable option on this planet. Physics and tactics would beat them every time.

But with time, mechs can become a fearsome predator, perhaps even moreso than the tank. If you look at Battletech, and things related on this, the hight advantage and such of the mech, as well as it's superior payload has meant that the Tank has been relegated to second class. However, at this current time Mechs may be more suitable for powered armour duties. GDI hasn't scrapped the mech, look at the Zone Trooper Wink A perfect example of a small, yet very deadly enhancement for infantry, while Tanks could be more use for mass assaults.

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DedmanWalkin
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why does a tank need more than one person? I mean honestly, if your built an autoloader for the Mech why can't you put it on a tank? In Renegade, you see one player piloting a tank, why can't that same idea be applied to this? Autoloader + Advanced Radar + Battlefield Imaging System + Multiple Camera Ports = One Man. All of these things are already present in your Titan so why doesn't the Medium Tank pictured get to benefit?

Let's say that Nod has just got itself a semi. They send some Minigunners to distract your Titans and bam a Semi knocks your Titan on its ass. So for the cost of a semi and a 4 Minigunners, a huge military asset costing millions of dollars can be brought down. Another situation, some minigunners have lured your Hapless Titan into a city. Your Titan is chasing them down a city street. Just as your Titan is about to take a step forward, a motor starts up and a piece of steel cable comes up from the ground. Before your Titan Pilot can react, because he is bogged down in tracking the Minigunners, the Titan trips on the steel cable and falls to the ground with a big thud. Try any of these on a tank and you get foiled. If 2-5 lightly trained Nod conscripts can bring down a 1 highly trained Titan Pilot with little more than a rope, a motor, and a couple guns. All of this material would make great film for Nod Training Videos. See GDI. See GDI Run. See GDI Trip on a Rope and Destroy Its Multi-Million Dollar Vehicle. Imagine the giggles at GDI's foolish mech usage. Kane must have laughed his ass off when he saw the first Titan deployed in Battle saying something like, "They make it too easy."

How often does the HMLRS get bogged down? Only during Ion Storms. For all intents and purposes though, they are Tanks. Hover Technology is another evolution in Tank Technology. Hover Tanks would be faster, carry more weapons, more ammo, and heavy weapons, be all terrain, capable of entering a city and not getting tripped. Mechs are by no means all-terrain. Have you ever walked in sand? What happens? Now imagine that you are a 10 ton mech every step you take will contain half of your weight all applied to one small surface area. Don't even try going up a sand dune because your ass is gonna fall down. Ever walked in mud? Do your feet ever feel heavier after do so? Mud cakes itself onto the bottom, the sides and sometimes depending on how deep it is to the inside of your feet. Now multiple this by about a thousand on a vehicle that requires specific weight requirements. Doesn't Sand and Mud get everywhere though? Sand especially gets into every crevice. Now imagine that a foot is so bogged down in sand that it can't move. Try walking without moving your ankle or your foot in sand. So many ways to utterly screw over a mech terrain wise. I mean cityscapes would be death traps for mechs, sand would slow them down, mud would slow them down, and hell any unstable terrain would. All of these situations a good tank could just roll though, especially if it were a
hover tank.

Gundam Wing, Mech Warrior, and C&C's depiction of mechs is complete an utter fiction. in reality, mechs will never see anything more than industrial usage, if that. Only Power Suits and Multi-Legged Mechs would be feasible and those are by no means what most define as mechs.

You can't deny physics, Elerium.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Elerium, get out of your fantasy world.

"How do you know? GDI may have perfected the construction methods so that 2 Titans could be made from 1 M1A2 SEPs, due to the low manpower and costs. "

Ok, the M1A2 SEP is 67 tons. Reconstruct 67 tons of metal to a 30ft tall combat mech. Impossible.
Or 2. It is impossible, no matter what the circumstances. Or there would have to be trade of in armor, of massive proportions. Maybe the armor of the Titan then could withstand 20mm shots.

The Height of the mech is no advantage. Read our posts, and study a little physics.

I have a book with me, called future of war. Funny thing, it makes brief references to Power suit like combat uniforms. However...The word mech is not mentioned once. Why? They know it is unfeasible, and impossble to happen.

Maybe GDI would not be in the position they place it in if they did not be so heavily reliant on mechs.

And your autoloader point is clearly from fiction.
How would the shells travel the distance? It would require a lot of energy to move the shell, as it is working against gravity. The firing rate would be around probably 8 or 9 seconds.

Fact:
Good US Sherman Crew: Below 4 seconds
Good US M1A2 Crew: Below 8 seconds, no less than 5.

And the thing about autoloaders is that they cannot be perfect, no matter what.

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Elerium-155
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DedmanWalkin wrote:
Why does a tank need more than one person? I mean honestly, if your built an autoloader for the Mech why can't you put it on a tank? In Renegade, you see one player piloting a tank, why can't that same idea be applied to this? Autoloader + Advanced Radar + Battlefield Imaging System + Multiple Camera Ports = One Man. All of these things are already present in your Titan so why doesn't the Medium Tank pictured get to benefit?

Well it is possible for Tanks to do this, but knowing the Brotherhood they probably couldn't be arsed.
Quote:

Let's say that Nod has just got itself a semi. They send some Minigunners to distract your Titans and bam a Semi knocks your Titan on its ass. So for the cost of a semi and a 4 Minigunners, a huge military asset costing millions of dollars can be brought down. Another situation, some minigunners have lured your Hapless Titan into a city. Your Titan is chasing them down a city street. Just as your Titan is about to take a step forward, a motor starts up and a piece of steel cable comes up from the ground. Before your Titan Pilot can react, because he is bogged down in tracking the Minigunners, the Titan trips on the steel cable and falls to the ground with a big thud. Try any of these on a tank and you get foiled. If 2-5 lightly trained Nod conscripts can bring down a 1 highly trained Titan Pilot with little more than a rope, a motor, and a couple guns. All of this material would make great film for Nod Training Videos. See GDI. See GDI Run. See GDI Trip on a Rope and Destroy Its Multi-Million Dollar Vehicle. Imagine the giggles at GDI's foolish mech usage. Kane must have laughed his ass off when he saw the first Titan deployed in Battle saying something like, "They make it too easy."

Imagine your 4 Machinegunners and a Semi, after taking down the Titan move on, they run into 2 Wolverines and a Titan. The Wolverines will use their anti-infantry weapons (a direct benefit as infantry could never carry these weapons) and skewer the Infantry into death, with the light guns bouncing off the armour. The Titans would be used as backup for anti-tank roles. Loyalist Nod soldiers have just died for a lost cause.

Imagine the city scenario again, the Wolverines come into action this time. The Wolverine this time replaces the Titan in urban warfare. The Wolverine doesn't trip over, note the size difference this time, heck why are we talking about ropes for? the force made by the Mech would be big enough to pull it off it's guards, or the pilot would see it and crush it. Anyhow the Wolverine goes through the rope easily and the pilot laughs as the conscripts get shot multiple times. The Nod cameraman easily curses and trys to turn off the camera, he'll probably edit that out.
Quote:

How often does the HMLRS get bogged down? Only during Ion Storms. For all intents and purposes though, they are Tanks. Hover Technology is another evolution in Tank Technology. Hover Tanks would be faster, carry more weapons, more ammo, and heavy weapons, be all terrain, capable of entering a city and not getting tripped.

Mechs are by no means all-terrain. Have you ever walked in sand? What happens? Now imagine that you are a 10 ton mech every step you take will contain half of your weight all applied to one small surface area. Don't even try going up a sand dune because your ass is gonna fall down. Ever walked in mud? Do your feet ever feel heavier after do so? Mud cakes itself onto the bottom, the sides and sometimes depending on how deep it is to the inside of your feet. Now multiple this by about a thousand on a vehicle that requires specific weight requirements. Doesn't Sand and Mud get everywhere though? Sand especially gets into every crevice. Now imagine that a foot is so bogged down in sand that it can't move. Try walking without moving your ankle or your foot in sand. So many ways to utterly screw over a mech terrain wise. I mean cityscapes would be death traps for mechs, sand would slow them down, mud would slow them down, and hell any unstable terrain would. All of these situations a good tank could just roll though, especially if it were a hover tank.

Ok, so Hover Technology really puts tanks forward, but thing is if it's damaged really bad it can crash and blow up. Not something you really want. Also in theory, mechs could travel over sand. If you've seen the Atredies Minotaurus or Mongoose, they can easily travel over the sand of Dune.



Ooo look an AT-ST #Tongue
Quote:

Gundam Wing, Mech Warrior, and C&C's depiction of mechs is complete an utter fiction. in reality, mechs will never see anything more than industrial usage, if that. Only Power Suits and Multi-Legged Mechs would be feasible and those are by no means what most define as mechs.


Right lets get a good example:


This is the Space Marine Dreadnought, a mech with a half-dead pilot inside (which means he has experience) with a machine spirit (comparable to advanced AI). It is able to withstand a lot of punishment, from laser beams to missiles. It fights along side some of the most advanced infantry known to mankind as well as carving a name for itself. Things like this strive in Urban Combat, where tanks can't go jack and get pinned down in the rubble, unable to maneuvre through the ruins of buildings.



Now this is our good pal, the Wolverine, roughly similar to the Dreadnought it fares much better in Urban conditions, weilding two gattling? cannons. The Wolverine because of this is essentially a moving weapons platform, able to offer more support and flexibility to a squad of infantry than a tank that can also get bogged down through the ruins of buildings. Now what would you rather bring into a city firefight?

Now Power Armour...



This is the new GDI Zone Trooper. As you can see by the feet it has Wolverine influences, possibly an evoloution of the Wolverine itself. But still, Power Armour is superior to Mechs as they convey all of the benefits while cutting down weaknesses, while also offering a big boost to infantry. The Wolverine may have been needed to eventually be thinned down to this Power Armoured version.

Now, back to the Titan.



All I will say is:
If the Titan comes out of the same War Factory, eats the same materials as that of a Tick Tank, then it has to be more superior to that of an M1A2 tank. Also note the Time differential, 2030 technology would probably absorb puny M1A2 shots. It does a fine job of absorbing some Tick Tank shots too I must admit. In short, THE TITAN IS PROBABLY MORE BETTER THAN THE M1A2 TANK, so the resources ARE BETTER SPENT on a TITAN than on a M1A2 TANK.



Now tell me how is this bad? Sure it has some minor flaws, but it fits the job perfectly as a super transport/super siege unit. All it needs now is just backup.

Quote:

You can't deny physics, Elerium.


I'm not denying physics, Deadman I am simply proving that mechs are a useful strategic unit.

eva-251 wrote:
Elerium, get out of your fantasy world.


Oh please, cut the condiments. You would also be screwing your pants if you saw a mech coming at you and your weapon glancing off it so helplessly.

Look, you two can't convince me that mechs are a useless unit, so stop trying to persuade me, it's not working.

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: o kawaii koto

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, I would not. I would be in that nice little Medium Tank, blowing the mechs away.

I did not deny the Power Suit, just the mech.

You keep changing the scenarios, and you can't keep your argument straight. Referencing a WH:40K(right?) is completely irrelevant... Especially since that is 40000 years into the future.

We are talking about mechs on this planet, Earth.
Just because a Wolverine is around does not mean it is suddenly safe. The Wolverine is classed as a power-armor anyways, is it not? Besides, it is very lightly armored.

You also notice the wolverine is small, and would not provide much cover to infantry?
You also understand a single AT rocket would put it out of commission?

If I was a GDI soldier moving through the ruins of some city, I would rather have a 20 year old M1A2 escorting me than a Wolverine for 2 reasons
1: It will take more than 1 AT rocket to kill the tank.
2: The tank and the sheer firepower it provides would strike fear into the heart of an enemy soldier, especially saying a cannon is far more effective on infantry than a machine gun is.

If there is 10 Noddies in a building shooting at me, then I would rather have a M1A2 pump a single 120mm HEAT round into the building, silencing it, rather than having a Wolverine hurl machine gun bullets into it, doing nothing but silencing it temporarily.

Again, you are dwelling in a fictional world, where mechs can walk without falling, where mechs are useful. CNC3 may be fictional, but things are looking up. I hope no mechs ever appear in-game.

Oh, and Elerium, read up on tanks. They are not as immobile as you say, or as bad at urban combat.

Quote:
"Things like this strive in Urban Combat, where tanks can't go jack and get pinned down in the rubble, unable to maneuvre through the ruins of buildings. "

Check out Stalingrad, Battle of Berlin, WWII footage of German panzers. Tanks dont navigate the ruins of buildings, they go through them. A tank does not need to worry about a home impeding it. The tank drives through the building.

I have recently seen footage of a Tiger tank going right through what appears to be a thick wall of a building, and coming out the other end, with no issues at all.

Tanks dont need to worry about the ruins of buildings. The tank will crush the debris under its treads, go over it.

Look at Iraq. The protection the M1A2 has provided to the Army and Marines is immeasurable.

The tanks of the past did not fair well in Urban combat, but the tank has always provided comfort to the infantry in those city environments.

Did you edit your post? I did not notice Star Wars crap in it.

"All I will say is:
If the Titan comes out of the same War Factory, eats the same materials as that of a Tick Tank, then it has to be more superior to that of an M1A2 tank. Also note the Time differential, 2030 technology would probably absorb puny M1A2 shots. It does a fine job of absorbing some Tick Tank shots too I must admit. In short, THE TITAN IS PROBABLY MORE BETTER THAN THE M1A2 TANK, so the resources ARE BETTER SPENT on a TITAN than on a M1A2 TANK. "
STOP with the fiction.
Look at the size of the freakin Titan. Look at the surface area, and volume of materials for it.
Look at the M1A2, now tell me, what would cost more to produce! FFS

BTW: You must know nothing about tank guns. The M1A2 is armed with a 120mm cannon, the same as the Titan, except the M1A2 fires DPU instead of AP.
Actually, the M1A2 tank gun may be superior to the Titan's gun, so what is the Titans gun then?
Do you know the caliber of the Tick-tank gun? Less than the M1A2 or Titan I will tell you.

Now you are frustrating me...I want to go into explanation about tank shells, armor piercing qualities and the sort..But..I am too frustrated.
The Tick-Tanks cannon is significantly weaker than the M1A2s is all I know..

Finally: This may need to be split from this topic, and moved to a new one.
Elerium- Stop referencing 2030's technology. Gosh, it is getting very annoying. Be specific, and logical. Dont reference Alien inventions, or super-far future inventions from games

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Elerium-155
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not even going to waste my time arguing with you anymore. As for some concerns I believe someone introduced Hover Technology. So why can't I introduce a W:40k? This is the future in the Tiberium universe, not the Iraqi War. You can't argue that a possible Tiberium armoured Wolverine is lower than a M1A2. Your merging two different timelines with an opinion that the M1A2 is better. An M1A2 is probably a GDI Medium Tank in the TD timeline, if so go there. A Titan would probably clobber it's ass 40 years later.

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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you people are forgetting what makes a mech important

a mech is useful because it is more agile then a tank*asuming technology has advanced slightly*

i don't see tanks stepping sideways.
i don't see tanks stepping over obstacles.

a mech would be better suited for terrain with many obstacles, due to it's agility

i don't see tanks hiding behind a building, sticking their barrel*with camera mounted* out

to put it simple : mechs are flexible, tanks are not

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: o kawaii koto

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm not even going to waste my time arguing with you anymore. As for some concerns I believe someone introduced Hover Technology. So why can't I introduce a W:40k? This is the future in the Tiberium universe, not the Iraqi War. You can't argue that a possible Tiberium armoured Wolverine is lower than a M1A2. Your merging two different timelines with an opinion that the M1A2 is better. An M1A2 is probably a GDI Medium Tank in the TD timeline, if so go there. A Titan would probably clobber it's ass 40 years later


I am done. This is my last post on this argument. I am done resisting the outburst. You are an idiot, Elerium.

--40000 years and 50 years are two big things, bright one.

--The GDI Medium Tank ingame was the M60A3, a later CW American tank. Cameo claims M1, but ingame is shows a M60 with a 105mm.

--I was referencing the Iraq War. Slow down and read my recently edited post.

--There is still an America in the TD/TS universe. Where do you think GDI got its M113 APCs, HMVEEs, M-270 MRLSs, M60A3s, A-10s, M1A1s, and most of their vehicle arsenal?
So logically, the M1A2 did exist in the TS world. WW got some dumb mech idea, which wiped out the idea for them of GDI having a convential battle tank.

I know it is not the UK, France, Germany or Russia. XD.

Judeau, you got that right. Pretty much those are the only natural advantages the mech has over the tank. The tank however is a workhorse unit of an army. The mech will never be one. Only in a game where the timeline is 40000 years later!

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THE Protagonist
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hay i just noticed how much WW took the basic looks of the mechs off starwars Sad

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DedmanWalkin
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Joined: 20 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You haven't countered any of our arguments you have just referenced more fiction to support your defense of fiction. That is circular and illogical.

Don't bring up the AT-ST it can be brought down by a volkswagen van. The AT-AT can be taken down by a single howitzer round to the side. The AT-ST and the AT-AT are the worst representations of mech technology, bringing them up hurts your case, badly.

If Nod saw your Wolverines, they'd lure them away with another bait and then topple the Titan. Nod is an ambusher and a Hit and Runner they aren't going to try their trap with 2 Powersuits (Which are Advanced Infantry not Mechs, by the way) protecting them.

Mech's aren't any more agile than a Human in a full suit of armor. Heav you ever worn one of those and tried to get through an obstacle course? Tanks don't need to go around obstacles, they plow through them, simple as that. Before you bring up trenches, a Mech won't be able to go any higher than its knee joint so Trenches will still stop Mechs.

Now if I created a universe where Monkeys could talk, monkeys for all intents and purposes would be able to talk. The only reason why the mechs in any universe are powerful is because the writers give them power. Take away the writers and those mechs become monkeys who can't talk.

If you damage anything badly it can crash and blow up, not just hover technology. Go take a hammer to a mortar round for a couple minutes and see how many hits it takes to blow yourself up.

Of all of your examples you only had 1 that wasn't a powersuit, and that was the Titan. To be a mech, certain specifications must be met. I thought we were comparing things in the C&C universe? Everything I mentioned is within C&C continuity. I only referenced Gundam Wing and Mechwarrior as they are two largest repositories of Mechs and are required to understand the requirements to be a mech.

WH:40K, have you seen the size of WH40k Tanks? They could roll over small businesses without a problem.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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Elerium-155
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

eva-251 wrote:

I am done. This is my last post on this argument. I am done resisting the outburst. You are an idiot, Elerium.

Kid, take the time to read back my last posts, I even actually say mechs are more flexible than tanks. -_- Also I'm an idiot now? Thanks! Do I care? No.

And Wolverines/AT-ST's/AT-AT's/Dreadnoughts are all mechs. Power armour is worn, not piloted. Do you really think that a man can shrug those giant legs of a Wolverine with his own weight? I know Wolverine is called a "Power Armour" but "Power Armour" can mean many things, even mechs could be classified as a "Power Armour" and "Armour" can also be classed as Tanks, but thing is the pilot is more seen sitting in the Wolverine than that of actually walking with it on him, so to speak.

And the reason why I'm using fictional stuff is because mechs are fictional (we haven't reached the level of making a mech yet), I'm simply proving that they are a useful unit, taking into accounts of the material and things they would use. Eva, you are trying to compare the fictional Titan to an M1A2, these points are obviously incorrect due to the armour and weapons that the Titan would use.

DedmanWalkin wrote:

Don't bring up the AT-ST it can be brought down by a volkswagen van. The AT-AT can be taken down by a single howitzer round to the side. The AT-ST and the AT-AT are the worst representations of mech technology, bringing them up hurts your case, badly.

Thing is, we don't know the armour they are using, or the specifications, if it can survive Laser blasts or whatever, then theoretically we don't know what it could deflect. AT-ST's probably are made for some mass production to provide infantry with at least some protection. Think of watered down power armour for two people I guess.
Quote:

If Nod saw your Wolverines, they'd lure them away with another bait and then topple the Titan. Nod is an ambusher and a Hit and Runner they aren't going to try their trap with 2 Powersuits (Which are Advanced Infantry not Mechs, by the way) protecting them.

This is more of a tactical situation.. you can't really say that mechs are bad because of this.. I could say that I would lure a Tank around a corner only to face a wall of Titans who would pound it. If the Titan simply fell over thanks to a rope, I would blame it on my Troops' incompetance.
Quote:

Mech's aren't any more agile than a Human in a full suit of armor. Heav you ever worn one of those and tried to get through an obstacle course? Tanks don't need to go around obstacles, they plow through them, simple as that. Before you bring up trenches, a Mech won't be able to go any higher than its knee joint so Trenches will still stop Mechs.

You have a valid point there.
Quote:

If you damage anything badly it can crash and blow up, not just hover technology. Go take a hammer to a mortar round for a couple minutes and see how many hits it takes to blow yourself up.

O_o Thing is Hover Technology is more prone to crash and blow up, imagine, your racing at high speeds until you see a forest, you'd probably crash into a tree, or if your over water, you could get shot and sink.
Quote:

Of all of your examples you only had 1 that wasn't a powersuit, and that was the Titan. To be a mech, certain specifications must be met. I thought we were comparing things in the C&C universe?

I thought so too Neutral
Quote:

WH:40K, have you seen the size of WH40k Tanks? They could roll over small businesses without a problem.

Of course #Tongue

Also I'd like to point out:

A trait of the mech's height advantage is that it could shoot the top of tanks, probably the most weakest part of a tank.

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ChielScape
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DedmanWalkin wrote:
Gundam Wing, Mech Warrior, and C&C's depiction of mechs is complete an utter fiction. in reality, mechs will never see anything more than industrial usage, if that. Only Power Suits and Multi-Legged Mechs would be feasible and those are by no means what most define as mechs.

\\//,DedmanWalkin


thats where you go wrong, my friend.Gundam Wing doesnt contain 1 single mech. mechas are a completely different type of combat unit. most use beam cannons, which are far superior to any C&C weapon. they are agile and fast, while still heavily armored. gundams can carry a fusion reactor because 1. they are pretty f*ckin big, and 2. they arent from 2030, not 2047 but "after colony somethingorother" (which is pretty smart so noone can find out when it exactly plays, so you dont get the effect TS will have in 2030)

my point?
1. mechas and mechs arent to be compared. actually, nod even mechs from different games should be compared, because they all play at different times.
--------------------------

going back to the use of mechs:

bad points:
1: walking costs more energy than driving, as there is much more friction. the spinning movement from the engine has to be converted to a walking movement. this makes the mech need a bigger engine than a tank, so it has to strip off its armor, weapons or ammunition supply.
2. mechs are slow. correction: mechs are f*cking slow.
3. mechs provide easy target practise in open fields (IN OPEN FIELDS!)
4. 2-legged mechs cant carry heavy-recoil weapons, as they will fall on their fat asses.

good points:
1. mechs are tall, giving them a larger range and a better view of the battlefield. also, friendly fire is greatly decreased. especially from machineguns.
2. they're pretty f*cking scary.
3. they can go where tanks cant.

tactics:
-mechs are best used in urban combat, where tanks are pretty much useless because of the debris, the shape and the limit of space. best mech types: titans and wolverines.
-in open fields mechs can provide long range support to tanks, preferrably disruptors or mammoth 27's, about a mile in front of them dealing with the immediate threat. best mech types: juggernouts and the MMKII.

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Zodiac
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Location: Svaynaq *Uses ROT13* The answer is: Finland!

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would be scared if a 30ft tall mech would come hunting me. But you can't say that M1A2 is better than a Titan , because Titan is a fictional mech. We can't even make robots that walk correctly.(or fast)
But a mech isn't very slow , at least not on harder terrain.Mechs are better in urban combats , because
they can shoot from behind the buildings , if the buildings aren't too tall.Tanks are pretty useless in small streets , because they can't turn in the corners.

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Morpher
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry if I havn't listned to anything above ( briefly flicked through )

Tanks are more mobile ( depending on terrain ), probably easier and cheaper to produce and maintain, easier to camoflauge to terrain, especially to things such as aerial units, the tank is a good design imo thier is no reason why it should not be used in the future

When it comes to mechs they have the advantage of being able to fire further ranges, becuase their firing weapons are higher up, I guess mechs can also cause fear to your enemies, they could probably handle on some terrain well, but perhaps some slopes may be hard for some mechs, due to top heavyness, whilst tanks may have advantages, if a tank loses its grip on a hill it will slip down, mechs would probably have a different story.

I am not saying that tanks are better than mechs or mechs are better than tanks, they both have potential roles, and I think that both ideas would work well in combat, mechs do not have to replace tanks in the future imo.

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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with Chielscape and Morpher signicantly more.. I can give a few of those points to them for being exceptionally logically in their posts.

I still dont see a mech doing well in urban warfare. Honestly, a Titan or mech walking through a banged up city would be a nice thing to disable. You know, a Titan strolls by a building, and peering out of the windows on the top floor are guys with RPGs and machine guns. The Titan walks by, and the Noddies open up, and disable the titans rather large head.

Or if this scenario were to played a bit lower, the noddies could hit a leg joint, or the gun even, saying it is large.

But tanks, they instill fear into you in urban areas. The silence of the dead city, and suddenly, your fellow NOD idiot shoots at the tank with a sniper rifle in the hopes of killing the commander of the tank. No dice.

Suddenly, the sound of the tank's turret can be heard, and you peer out the window to see the angular turret of the tank pointing its 120mm main gun at you. Immediate reaction: "oh shit".
HEAT round in the face is step 2.

That is not saying the Titan could not do the same, but it presents a bigger target to the soldiers.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dont even think the Mammoh mk2 is a plausable concept..mounting a railgun on a tank is a pretty far fetched idea for the U.S. Army, even at THIS day in age.(im just talking an average home-made railgun) Strapping TWO to the sides of a quadrupedal mechanized unit? its just going to fall back on its ass when it fires them at its target.

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DedmanWalkin
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mechs are far worse in urban combat than any of your are understanding. If the debris is arrayed in such a way that there isn't much footing a mech pilot will have to be very careful where he puts his foot down unless it is heavy enough to crush through debris which isn't likely because you'd need some powerfully advanced joint, stabilization, and leg construction to hold the weight. A mech may also easily be tripped by traps that a tank would plow though. A large vehicle impacting the leg will bring one down. A large vehicle launched from a building into the head would bring one down. Undermined Terrain can cause mechs further trouble because all of their weight is resting on a small surface area whereas tanks would fare much better due to large surface area. Industrial Machinery can be used to bring them down easily. These are all non-military options that urban warfare specialists would take advantage of when facing mechs. When using military weapons the cost of taking down a mech in a city is far less than taking down a tank. Mines don't have to have too much destructive power to bring down a mech only enough to cause the mechs leg to be knocked out of sync for a couple moments. Like EVA-251 has enumerated multiple times, modern day RPGs and other low yield explosives aimed at joints and key areas will bring one down with ease. All of these options are very cheap to even terrorists so an organized militia or Nod would have ready access to these materials.

Let me put this in perspective for you, to make a human 50 feet tall you would have to replace their bones with a material many times, I believe 10, stronger than titanium to keep the body from collapsing into a puddle of biomatter. That material does not exist right now and if it did exist, you could easily put it on a tank allowing it to field more powerful engines, weapons, and equipment. Even a 30 feet tall Human would need something on the order of a material 4-6 times stronger than titanium to sustain it. Now humans are relatively lightweight when it comes to biomechanical organisms, throw on some armor, a gun, ammo, and equipment and the material needs to be even stronger,. Now you have this material, are you going to put it on the slow vehicle that you can only mount a low calibre weapon on or are you going to mount it on a quicker vehicle that can carry multiple weapons of higher capacity and calibre? No General in his right mind would ever choose to use this new material on a Mech when they have a cheaper more powerful option.

Mechs have very limited use, if any, and are in no way cost effective. No military in the world will employ a mech while a much cheaper, more cost effective, stronger, and faster option exists.

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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Clarkson
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its the same as the Maxim Gorky or, for that matter, an attack zeppelin...only ideal for shocking the shit out of people, Maxim Gorky was built only for show, dispite being a bomber, it cant be used at all for(if it still exists.) battle, and I assume a blimp doesnt have to be explained.

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Allied General
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Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rofl cakes, its a game deal wiv it.

seriously people EA mess up the storylines of the cnc games all the time.

mechs and tanks its all the same to me.

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Arikado
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 17 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I, personally, don't give a shit about the benefits of either. This tank vs. mech argument is actually quite pathetic when you add things like 'scare tactics' and 'reliabilty'. This is up to the coders and programmers, not a 3d object. If they want a mech to break dance or a tank to travel 340.29 m/s, they can.

What I'm more concerned about is what's EA's excuse for GDI going back to vehicles with treads. If they were mass-producing Titans and Wolverines before, why would they de-evolve now? The 'Zone Trooper' was a step in the right direction even if the suit does look like a bastard child of StarCraft's Marine and Metroid's Samus.
I would think story continuity is more important than the sidebar or whether Nod is scared of a mech. Maybe that's just me. Confused

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: o kawaii koto

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, but one point.
Going from mechs to tanks is not devolving.

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Last edited by EVA-251 on Fri May 26, 2006 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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Arikado
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

eva-251 wrote:
Going from tanks to mechs is not devolving.

I think you meant "Going from mechs to tanks is not devolving" otherwise you've misread my post. Razz

Regardless of the (im)practical uses of bipedal war machines in the real world, I think it is devolving. You don't spend billions of dollars for mech research in the 30 odd years between the wars, use them in the battlefield, suddenly go "Nevermind, screw the whole thing. Tanks are better!" and design completely new tanks in less than 10 years. There has to be some logical progression. Unless, of course, this game is a sequel to TD and not TS.

Still.. this is just mindless speculation from the minimal information EA released. Maybe in the next pre-rendered preview we'll be seeing mechs or at least Nod units.

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EVA-251
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Also Known As: evanb90
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: o kawaii koto

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I might just become religious and pray to God that mechs dont appear. I would say God, dont give us more of this shitty and over used mech concepts.

Another thing I would like to say:
I dont like mechs even more is because they are the most overused future war concept in any game. ANY GAME. Hell, tanks are beginning to look like good and original concepts...


And it is not devolving. GDI probably realized it f'ed up with its worst move ever, moving to mechs, and went hey...Tanks got too much over mechs, and mechs are such hi maitenance. Lets scrap this crappy titan and make two shiny MBTs out of it, with the exact same performance.

But..It is still amusing how this topic got so debated. I think this needs to be split off and made a new topic.

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IcySon55
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Location: Overworld

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: FAKE In-game pic. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That 'screenie' isn't a screenie at all. It's a render made to deceive fans.

First of all, why isn't there any light coming through the hole on the roof? (red)
Secondly, all the tank's tracks are at the exact same position. (blue) An obvious copy and paste for the tanks...
Thirdly, the infantry standing in shadows don't have even darker shadows, which they should.

And finaly, there are NO remaps anywhere. This can't possibly be in-game.

As Arikado said: "Maybe in the next pre-rendered preview we'll be seeing mechs or at least Nod units."



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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The yellow stuff is definitelly a flaw. The red one I still couldn't get. The blue one can also mean that the engine doesn't deal well with tracks..

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ChielScape
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

of course all tanks have the same tracks. how many tracks do you want em to have? JFC

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Destiny
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I noticed that, but I guess it's a render. But hey, if it was a TS/RA2 style game, then we shouldn't be seeing this type of 'screenshot'! You're a very good Admin, Banshee! But I think Banshee means when the Mammoth Tanks turns. The tracks should be manuverable right? I see it now. The track's are seperate right? So a small part should be 'stuck' (But can 'rotate' 360 degrees) to the body of the tank, so if the front part of the tanks moves up a slope, the other 2 tracks at the back would still be straight. Ahh I can't explain it.

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