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A few suggestions regarding the factions
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Daeas
Civilian


Joined: 20 May 2006

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject:  A few suggestions regarding the factions
Subject description: Also a few unit ideas for CABAL
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Brilliant work on the mod, it looks better than C&C3 so far and I would happily choose it over C&C3 actually.

However, I do have a concern. It seems by trying to create 5 factions, you're really setting yourself up for a lot of work and of course balance disaster.

My suggestion is quite simple, eliminate the Federation faction. This allows you more time and effort to perfect the other factions (Cabal, Nod, GDI and Punk/Mutant/Forgotten). I really don't understand their inclusion to begin with.

I do suggest you find a plot or a theme and stick it to it. I also hope there will be Tiberium in this game. Should be a sinch to design the crystals for you.

I also have a list of possible structures and units for CABAL faction, feel free to use or modify them as you like. Good luck with your project and I mean that sincerely.

---- Units ----

[b]---Infantry---[/b]


Cyborg: Basic Cabal soldier, carries twin gattling guns that can shred through land and air units with vivid accuracy.

Shrieks: Heavily armored robots, Shrieks are unarmed when undeployed but as soon as they deploy they transform into something like a miniature Pulse Turret that can rapidly fire at both land and air units (Think Galvatron from Transformers). The reason Shrieks are so effective is that they aren't as expensive as their structure equivalent and are very effective in groups.

Monitor: The Monitor is a specialized line of cyborgs designed to do just that, monitor the battlefield. Equipped with a personal stealth generator and a large line of sight, they can give vital info on anything just by being next to it. For example, bring a Monitor next to an enemy harvester and you will find out how much Tiberium it is carrying. Bring a Monitor next to an enemy refinary or powerplant and you will know how much money/power they have, you can also find out what the enemy is building and when the enemy's superweapon will be ready. Monitors can also fire unlimited trackers on any enemy units, allowing you to permanently be able to see what that unit sees.

Siren: A very versatile and specialized cyborg, extremely fast and very acrobatic. A siren is able to pounce at enemy infantry (killing them almost instantly) and land vehicles, using her plasma charged hands to literally stab and melt through the tank armor (imagine 2 lightsabres for hands that are stabbed over and over into the tank hull), SHE makes quick work of vehicles and once she is on top of a vehicle, every attack she receives damages the vehicle as well. However Sirens are vulnerable to attack while on top of an enemy unit. Sirens are so acrobatic that they can flip down cliffs unharmed. The Siren cyborg's main weakness is that it is ineffective against all structures. (Yes, Siren is inspired by one the early C&C concept art)

Oblivion: The latest version of the Cyborg Commando from the previous war. Code-named 'Oblivion', This powerful prototype cyborg is the heaviest infantry in the game, heavily armored yet slow moving, it is capable of levelling entire bases with it's QUADRUPLE plasma casters, one for each of its four arms. Oblivion however truly shines when it is deployed, it becomes a stationary cannon (much like deployed Shrieks) that can hurdle vollies of plasma at more than twice its normal range. Oblivion's four plasma cannons are SHREDDING, 2 plasma casters fire while the other 2 are recharging, making for an endless stream of plasma. When undeployed Oblivion is actually capable of engaging TWO targets at the same time, one target for each pair of plasma casters. They can take down infantry and vehicles rather quickly, and when deployed it will make even quicker work of structures.

---Vehicles---

Omnidroid: An all-round light and fast moving unit. The Omnidroid is a scout and repair unit all in one, armed with a light chain gun only it won't fair well in battle. However the Omnidroid makes it up by being able to repair both Cabal's infantry and vehicle units, it also makes a very good scout early in the game.

Harvester Drones: Cabal's equivalent of the Harvester. Harvester Drones are twice as fast as the traditional harvester with medium armor, their job is to simply collect Tiberium and unload it in the Processor/Refinary. Even though each individual Harvester Drone carries almost half as much Tiberium load as other factions' harvesters, the HD makes up for it in the fact that 3 HD's can unload their tiberium at the same time and that they are generally faster at collecting.

The Collector: The sinister Collector unit is a massive bio-prison that hovers over the battlefield with an array of appendages or tentacles that it utilizes to instantly capture any organic infantry unit (enemy or neutral). Heavily armored but unarmed, the Collector's only true defense is against infantry units that it can capture instantly, making it a good anti-infantry unit. The Collector has a max. capacity of 10 infantry units at a time, it can however make room by unloading them either in the Bio Plant or the Assimilator for usage. The Collector can also be used as a transport for your own infantry (capacity 10 as well). If the Collector is destroyed, SOME of the infantry units inside are released.

Exterminator: Cabal's basic assault unit, based off early sketches of the Cabal Trooper. The Exterminator is the latest addition to Cabal's line of heavy cyborgs. The Exterminator is more machine than human and is much larger than the average infantry unit, as big as a tank in fact, with 4 legs that allow for added agility, the Exterminator will utilize it's single highly accurate laser cannon mounted on its shoulder to make quick work of infantry and vehicles. The Exterminator is an all-round unit, it isn't heavily armored however and the laser cannon doesn't have a fast RoF and the damage it deals is medium, however coupled with its peer the Reaper, they will make a deadly team.

Screech: Based on the "Flying Wasp" early C&C3 concept art, the Screech is a specialized drone unit that doesn't have an actual weapon, it resembles some sort of tank-sized insect such as a centipede. The Screech's true purpose is to be a smart mine of sorts. Once deployed, the Screech will curl up and bury itself inside the ground, becoming completely invisible to the naked eye. Once a vehicle passes near it, the Screech will explode from the ground and hug the vehicle into submission, killing the occupants inside with a deadly tiberium-based poison that it injects, it also damages the vehicle somewhat. Essentially it leaves the vehicle helpless and immobile, it ceases to belong to the enemy and turns gray, making it vulnerable to hijacking and reprogramming. The Screech will also pounce at any enemy air unit that passes over it, however the results are different. The aircraft along with the Screech will crash immediately, destroying both the Screech and the aircraft. Screeches ignore infantry units in general but they can be commanded to attack enemy infantry, killing them instantly.

Leech: The Leech drone goes hand in hand with the Screech drone, while the Screech disables enemy vehicles, the Leech hijacks them and reprograms the disabled vehicle to serve Cabal. Leeches are also able to reprogram enemy structures, by entering them a Leech can take over an enemy non-defensive structure in only a few seconds. Leeches are fast but completely unarmed and very lightly armored, they are also about half the size of a Screech and just like the Screech, it can bury itself to become undetectable. [Prerequisite = Machine Factory, Transmitter]

Reaper: The cyborg Reaper unit from the previous war is back in all its glory, now serving Cabal and only Cabal. The Cyborg Reaper resembles the Exterminator a lot and even though the Reaper is larger it is equally agile due to its 4 legs. The Cyborg Reaper's weapon of choice is twin double missile launchers, capable of shooting 4 missiles at a time (no more Cluster missiles Sad), excellent for enemy vehicles and aircrafts but ineffective against infantry. However the Reaper has an answer for that, on its shoulder there is a snare cannon, that fires a net that traps infantry units temporarily, giving it the opportunity to either kill them or summon The Collector to abduct them.

Judicator: Prepare to be JUDGED! The Judicator Tank (one of the few tanks that are actually on treadmills in the CABAL army) is essentially a miniature and mobile Executor tower. Slow moving and heavily armored, once the Judicator Tank arrives at its destination it will start electrocuting enemy units left and right, and just like its immobile equivalent, Judicator can only strike at one unit at a time, firing a continuous volley of lightning until the unit is destroyed or another target is selected. Judicator's best asset is its range, it has the longest range in all of Cabal's arsenal (excluding a deployed Oblivion), it makes an excellent support unit in assaults.

[b]Pulsar Bomber[/b]: Cabal's other air unit, the Pulsar Bomber like its name suggests bombards a target area with several shots from its massive twin Pulse cannons (similar to the ones utilized by Shrieks but stronger). Pulsars are slower than Screamers but they make up for it with their thick armor and fire power that can level battalions of enemy tanks and structures. Pulsar Bombers are housed inside the Spire as well and they too require to recharge their batteries. There is an upgrade available which can increase their battery supply though.


---- Structures ----

Construction Core: The center of a CABAL colony. it is Cabal's equivalent of the Con Yard.

Processor: Cabal's version of the Refinary. The difference between the Processor and a Refinary is the method of harvesting Tiberium. While GDI and Nod rely on slow moving harvesters, the Processor deploys a fast moving, medium armored Drones. Like workers in an ant colony, they quickly hover to the nearest Tiberium patch and harvest it. The Processor also allows up to THREE drones at a time to unload their Tiberium. Drones also have a secondary purpose which is to maintain the Processor (only) and repair it when damaged.

Bio Power Plant: Cabal's sinister source of power, 2 to 3 of these should supply an entire colony with power. The Bio Plant utilizes living organic human beings as a source of electricity using them as a battery. The Bio Plant (resembling something from the Matrix) can house up to 10 civilians or enemy soldiers which increases its total power output.

Cyborg Productions: This structure produces Cabal's bread and butter cyborg army which come in a variety of sizes and flavors.

Transmitter: Cabal's version of the Radar.

Machine Factory: This production facility supplies Cabal with a nightmarish array of vehicles.

Pulse Turret: The Pulse Turret is Cabal's basic defensive structure. What it lacks in accuracy however it makes up for in firepower. The Pulse Turret literally causes a targeted area to pulsate in energy, triggering a small blast that damages enemy units in a small area. The Pulse Turret is excellent against groups of units, especially air units but it doesn't cope well with fast moving targets and it's RoF is not very fast. The Pulse Turret has its own bio-batteries, it also allows up to two more civilian and enemy infantry to be uploaded inside, this increases the Pulse Turret's range and Rate of Fire.

Tech Datebase: Cabal's technology center, it gives the colony access to advanced technologies and a variety of unit and structure upgrades.

Executor: Cabal's advanced defensive structure and much like the name suggests, it is a vicious piece of technology. The Executor is a towering structure that eats up the power supply of the colony, in return it delivers POWERFUL bolts of lightning and with its long range, no offender is safe. Before you think the Executor is a copy of the Tesla Coil, it has one major difference. The bolt of lightning does damage over time and is not one single blow. The Executor strikes at a unit and the bolt keeps electrocuting the unit, slowing destroying it. This however leaves the Executor open to attack from other units. The Executor can kill infantry in one hit but may take up to a few seconds to destroy a tank. Bolted units move slower.

Shield Generator: Once this structure becomes part of a colony, every structure in the area gets an energy shield that reduces all damage received by 50%.

Assimilator: Inhumane technology at its best. Cabal's Assimilator does what its name suggests. It assimilates enemy infantry that has been captured by The Collector unit (an imprisoning unit that can capture upto 10 soldiers or civilians at a time for use either in the Assimilator or the Bio Plant). Human Beings that enter the Assimilator leave as newly created Cyborgs at NO COST whatsoever.

Thanks for taking the time to read through these. Looking forward to see the outcome.

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christophski the great
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm i think instead of eliminating the federation completely, maybe miss them out of the first version and add them later on

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Zodiac
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WTF Oblivion has QUADRUPLE cannons?

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mice16
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quad PLASMA cannons? *runs* (from the distance) Great big balance issues!

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Daeas
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Zodiac wrote:
WTF Oblivion has QUADRUPLE cannons?


You read me!!! QUAD!!! GOROOOOOOO!!! ^_~

The balance issues can be fixed easily by tampering with the damage, rof and general speed of the unit. Also by adding counters, Oblivion is a hero unit after all.

The Federation could be added later on, however as a concept I really don't get them. All the other factions have a very distinct character, the Federation don't sound all too appealing relative to the others.

You could instead change them into The CORPORATION, a merciless and mercenary human corporation that produces that most advanced weapons on the planet and sells them to the other faction for profit. Their goal is to profit as much as possible from this way and they recently discover that the only way to guarantee continued profit is to add fuel to the fire, thus they have become a faction themselves! DRAMA! Or something like that.

5 factions is too much work, 3 or 4 to begin with, perfect those factions at least that will get the mod released, then can add stuff later while fine tuning game balance.

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Clarkson
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why the ztype should EA be in this game as the corporation? #Tongue

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Daeas
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Carnotaurus wrote:
Why the ztype should EA be in this game as the corporation? #Tongue


shshshshsh!!! We don't want EA to sue us. Embarassed

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ShadowLord
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quick! Hid the thread, EA is coming (Joke)

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DedmanWalkin
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some of your ideas are completely unfeasible within Red Alert 2.

The Monitor, insofar as its information gathering skills, is an impossibility.

The Screech is completely impossible.

Collectors are doable but they couldn't really hold enemy units, only unist that have been mutated into allied units.

Leech and Siren are doable but some of their functionality would be lost.

The Executor and Judicator are doable but damage over time would require some sort of lasting anim with damage or radiation.

The Net Launcher is currently undoable but with the Rock Patch it may become possible.

The Shield Generator is undoable.

The Assimilator could Grind units but it could not be made ot turn infantry into cyborgs.

The concepts are good just you have to remember this is still within the confines of Red Alert 2 which has limitations. Do some modding of your own and with the experience gained you can create a more feasible list of unit suggestions. Good work so far!

\\//,DedmanWalkin

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Holy_Master
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm..make sure your idea will follow my concept i'll tell you about all concept on ROS side.feel free for unit design because ROS not stand on Tiberium univers.

- GDI
Heavy Armor,powerful fire power but slow,they have Mech and some Tank [yes they have some tank but they still use mech as backbone].GDI have the ultimate unit in ROS that is "Mammoth"and they can get it free! Wink

- Nod
nod in ROS have a bit different from TS,this side is fastest in the game,and they have advance stealth technology,and some of subteranean unit.and they have the best longrange unit in game

- Cybernatic
i have change all concept of this side,i dont know the word to expain all..
mainly cybernatic will use many kind of "Trap" like minelayer [yes manykind of mine #Tongue ] ,mobile drone controller ect,they dont have much powerful unit but this side is the best on defese structure and strongest infantry.

- Federation
some thing make faderation different other side.they have less gound vehice than other side because they using air unit as main unit. i saperate air unit in ROS for 3 types.
>> VTOL / SVTOL / Chopper Types> you can build and control byself,this unit will not landing anymore.
>> Fighter Jet / Bomber> you can use it as super weapon but the enemy can shot it down same old. #Tongue
>> Air Transport>you can build and control it by self but it need to landing for passage your unit

- Punk
this side dont have much power weapon,truely they'r weakest side on ROS they have poor base defense and combat unit [well..except Behemoth #Tongue ] but their unit is cheapest,and build fastest,this side is the best it you want to rush your friend with overwheel number tactic. [hmm..tactic?]

and...
- ????
info is ??? Rolling Eyes

in the plan,i want to release it with 3 side before [yes if i plan to release it with all side that in first version that's too hard and it the project will not finish ],and will add the last 2 faction on next version [if i dont lazy],the ROS have 5 faction and i'll try to add it much possible,because i'll the RTS that give much choice possible for player.

Last edited by Holy_Master on Sun May 21, 2006 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Joergen
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Holy_Master wrote:

- Punk
this side dont have much power weapon,truely they'r weakest side on ROS they have poor base defense and combat unit [well..except Behemoth #Tongue ] but their unit is cheapest,and build fastest,this side is the best it you want to rush your friend with overwheel number tactic. [hmm..tactic?]

"Kekeke zerg rush ^_^"

#Tongue

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ShadowLord
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Joined: 07 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I think its best to just do the 3 sides in the first version then do the other 2 in the next, just to see if it balances nicely first. And it'll keep us waiting Wink

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Daeas
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DedmanWalkin wrote:
Some of your ideas are completely unfeasible within Red Alert 2.

The Monitor, insofar as its information gathering skills, is an impossibility.

The Screech is completely impossible.

Collectors are doable but they couldn't really hold enemy units, only unist that have been mutated into allied units.

Leech and Siren are doable but some of their functionality would be lost.

The Executor and Judicator are doable but damage over time would require some sort of lasting anim with damage or radiation.

The Net Launcher is currently undoable but with the Rock Patch it may become possible.

The Shield Generator is undoable.

The Assimilator could Grind units but it could not be made ot turn infantry into cyborgs.

The concepts are good just you have to remember this is still within the confines of Red Alert 2 which has limitations. Do some modding of your own and with the experience gained you can create a more feasible list of unit suggestions. Good work so far!

\\//,DedmanWalkin


Originally, I didn't create these concepts for an RA2 mod and completely comprehend that many of the abilities are impossible to add. However, the basic idea of each unit can be implemented and adapted to fit the extent of RA2 abilities.

@Holy Master

I see what you're trying to do, however I firmly believe one (or even two) of your factions need to be dropped to perfect the mod. Then you can add any other faction you want.

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Rmag37
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I really like these ideas, I think you should make CABALs army way different, like his ideas. The army he has described seems to fit the maniacle CABAL from Firestorm.

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Holy_Master
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I see what you're trying to do, however I firmly believe one (or even two) of your factions need to be dropped to perfect the mod. Then you can add any other faction you want.


i make ROS follow the game i want,that make me dont care about i'll be perfect mod or not.yes ROS have alot of side but all side dont have much unit when compare with ra2 that make me can spend idea to make all side different,and i'll try dont put any crap unit into it.

about balance
i'm sure ROS will not balance at first.but you forgot some thing? this's not completely new game that make it easier and fast to fix or adding newthing.and you can post here to tell me any bug or unbalance you found.

and who thing my mod dont have plot. you can go here.[sorry my english spel not good much and the story not stand on Tiberian univers it'll make you confuse a bit]

http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10613

the story possible to change again.

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Tritavius
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Personally I think then Federation should show up in earlier versions of ROS, because they are the major ally of GDI. Think then as an assault and support faction since they have good artillery, powerfull airforce and powerful ground units. And the GDI have good artillery, good airforce and extremely powerful ground units.

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Holy_Master
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GDI in ROS is the best on close combat,like MBM [Battle Mech] and strongest Uber but they'r slowest

Fed have the best aircraft [hey!,they have a big one!] and balance land force. Wink

*and i change back some concept,all aircraft you can build still using airpad and cant AA combat...

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ShDwBoRn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think the Feds should stay in the game and have major airpower. i think fighter jets would be more vicious looking then a vtol aircraft like the orca. Maybe a joint strike fighter with VTOL capability and precision guided bombs. So you'll be playing the game you'll hear a whoosh a couple of bangs and then your conyards been replaced with a massive crater!

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Darkest Legacy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well if your gonne want to keep the game balanced i think that four is the max.
Ive also been thinking about specialties for each faction, do you have any??
e.g. even though RA2 doesnt perfect it much, Allies have Chrono and Prism Technology, Soviets have Tesla and dnt knw, and Yuri have gravity and mind
I was thinking:
GDI have Particle Technology (ion canon) and maybe instead of stayin original they can have prism or chrono tecnhology.
Cybernetics are cybernetic lol
Nod have Fire and dnt knw

Just ideas.
By the way, see the factions are they gonna have little countries to them, or factions within them, e.g. Allies have america etc.

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gufu
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bupage time!
#Newbie

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Clarkson
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lol. You're no better, Gufu.

He's actually asking a question I think...so...its not illegal. You just spam for no reason.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm...can I see the concept the Siren was based on? Can't remember any female trooper...

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Elerium-155
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Darkest Legacy wrote:

GDI have Particle Technology (ion canon) and maybe instead of stayin original they can have prism or chrono tecnhology.
Cybernetics are cybernetic lol
Nod have Fire and dnt knw


Sorry but really, of course CABAL is cybernetic and assimilates as his speciality, temporal weapons are way beyond GDI, and this coupled with solar weapons should remain with the Allies in RA2 (plus it would look majorly stupid knowing that the two universes aren't supposed to be tied together, it would drag this mod to the pit of mods).

GDI would just use normal weaponry and mecha mixed with railguns, disruption, 'firestorm' defenses and particle technology. GDI uses a hammer to break open an egg.

Nod uses chemical and nuclear warfare, subterra networks combined with overwhelming manpower, laz0rs and hit and run tactics.

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