Tiberium Wars "Going Back to the Roots"

Muldrake

Didn't really know where else to put this (no real existing topics, and I didn't want any old bumps), so I made a new topic, as I'd like to put across my feelings for TW so far.

Mike Verdu has continually said about how, the group is "Going back to the roots" of the Command and Conquer franchise, working on the Tiberian series. 9 times out of 10, he'll mention "Tiberian Dawn" or "the first Command and Conquer", but what about Tiberian Sun?

The "Predator" tank is a homage to the medium tank in Tiberian Dawn.
The new Mammoth Tank, is a homage to the Mammoth Tank in Tiberian Dawn.
Nod has the Nuclear Missile, just like in Tiberian Dawn.

But whats happened to the versions of those features as found in Tiberian Sun?
In Tiberian Sun, the "homage to the medium tank in Tiberian Dawn" was the Titan Battle Mech.
The "homage to the Mammoth Tank in Tiberian Dawn" was the Mammoth Mk.II Mech.
And Nod no longer used the Nuclear Missiles, but advanced Multi-Missiles and Tiberium Chemical Missiles.

If you look.. Tiberium Wars could be the perfect addition to the Tiberian series of games, if you did one simple thing.

Completely ignore Tiberian Sun.

Ignore everything which was established in Tiberian Sun.

Ignore that GDI had well established mechs as their main battle units.

Ignore that Tiberium can be found in different states and colours, such as blue (and popularly believed Red) variant.

Ignore that Tiberium was not only terraforming the ground and atmosphere, but creating an entire Tiberium based ECOSYSTEM.
There was existance of Tiberium fauna and fona, as well as Tiberium lifeforms.

Ignore the predictions stated in Tiberian Sun and Firestorm, that within a year, the Earth would be incapable of supporting life as we know it.

And probably, ignore a whole bunch of stuff which EA will later reveal to be corrupted in Tiberium Wars.

Sure, they can bring in the Philadelphia, and the Juggernaut, and say its based on Tiberian Sun. They can pick out the odd things from Tiberian Sun, which they liked, and put them in to Tiberium Wars, to please the community, and create a false sense of relation between the two games.
But if the majority of what is established in Tiberium Wars, cannot really be seen to be a continuation of what has been established in Tiberian Sun, it can't be a sequel to it.

I will not go against the claims, that a lot of work has gone into this game. I have to say, looking at some of the screenshots, it does look to be shaping up nicely. For an RTS game. Possibly even a Command and Conquer, now EA has expanded the definition of what a Command and Conquer game is now, thanks to Generals. But I won't call it a sequal to Tiberian Sun. Maybe a sequal to Tiberian Dawn, but not Tiberian Sun.

They are making the same mistake they made with Generals. Generals wasn't anything related to the previously established Command and Conquer titles. Now this, won't have anything related to the previously established Tiberian titles, or at least to Tiberain Sun.

Tiberian Sun, is the game of my life. I have not played any other game as much as I have Tiberian Sun. I haven't modded as much, worked with, or become as involved in the community for any other game, than Tiberian Sun.
I got hooked on Tiberian Dawn, its what started me off for RTS. I loved it as much as any other fan. But when Tiberian Sun came out, I didn't really look back that much. Tiberian Sun was my new home.

I won't let a game I love so much, be simply skipped, and given an "honourable mention".

I know it didn't make the profit as everyone hoped, nor was as popular as Tiberian Dawn.
If Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back wasn't as popular as A New Hope, George Lucas wouldn't have just skipped it, ignoring 90% of what was established in that film, when doing Return of the Jedi.

I want a sequel to Tiberian Sun, and Firestorm. And I just don't see it. I see a potentially good game. But I don't see a sequel to Tiberian Sun.

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blubb · General **Joined**: 31 Jul 2005

that is right..i don't see very much tiberian sun in TW...
even when it looks good and some things look good and the storyline is going well..it is not tiberian sun and it is a big mistake of EA and i have fully to agree with muldrake that a game like TW wouldn't make the way in our hearts.

and i highly suggest to pack a topic like this with a few statements about exactly this not other things exactly these points into a mail, sending this right to mr verdu and trying to have a nice and logical communication with the TW team to simply make clear what is half way pissing off fans when they see the screens.

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DonutArnold · General **Joined**: 18 Jan 2005 **Location**: Finland

I had same feeling about that EA makes TW as a sequel to Tiberian Dawn. EA just throws all stuff like a trash what are created in Tiberian Sun as a new to keep up the Tiberian story. And then totally crashes the whole story by continuing Tiberian Dawn. That makes me feel bad and I feel I'm really disappointed to EA by screwing up whole C&C series!

Arikado · Jumpjet Infantry **Joined**: 17 Dec 2005

I share the same feeling (ill or not) when I look upon the new renders of Tiberium Wars. The tanks always throw me off. As does the overall brightness of the planet. Neutral

Now that EALA no longer has any ex-Westwood developers, I wondering why didn't they just start fresh-- completely restart the series from scratch. They released all of the old material in one nice package, so why not?
Then they wouldn't be under fire for trivial things like the new look and nature of Tiberium and lack of mechs. And they wouldn't need to chase down Mr. Kucan to reprise his role as Kane since they would have a new actor for the role. Hell, they could've added Generals to the storyline as a prequel to EALA's 'Tiberium' series.

Not many people would like it. Many people would claim that the new series is riding on the success of the old one. But isn't that what TW is doing now?

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Morpher · General **Joined**: 28 Jan 2005

I agree with Muldrake, Tiberium Wars seems to ignore Tiberian Sun, and the Tiberium, as nicely as they have explained it to us, seems to work differently, as many people in the community have discussed with me. I mean the absence of blue tiberium, may not seem a massive deal but it was in Tiberian Sun for a reason, and there dosn't seem to be an explanation why it isn't included, Tiberium is one of the most important factors in this game.

I get the feeling they are making a good game, but just using the success of the previous Tiberian series, thrown in with some things that fans not really as " dedicated " to the game will recognise straight away such as the mammoth tank and stealth tank, but maybe not really notice some of the other things ie blue tiberium and how this Tiberium apparently works differently and points such as Nod now having a Nuke over the Cluster and Chemical missile etc.

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Clarkson · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:06 am Post subject:

'Advanced' Cluster and Chemical missiles.- These missiles were a joke, especially the Cluster missile. An explosive is nothing compaired to a thermonuclear blast, even if it is a burst explosion, it lacks a radiactive aftermath,and sure as hell isnt as cool as a good old Nuclear Missile. Nevermind Nod's SCUD launchers that had enough power to blast Philadelphia out of the skies, Why are they using these pathetic cluster missiles instead of nukes? Nevermind the Nuke stockpiles left scattered around the world that'd be free for the taking, especially in the Fmr. Soviet Union.

"They are making the same mistake they made with Generals. Generals wasn't anything related to the previously established Command and Conquer titles." Generals, like Red Alert(Which is considered TD's precursor), is a different universe, Before anybody goes on with 'Generals isnt related to Tiberian or Red Alert', I want to mention that RA is a DIFFERENT STORYLING only held together by a few pathetic links:

Creepy bald guy(Kane).
Same harvesting system. Vehicle harvests growing crystals/gold/whatever, returns them to base, rinse and repeat.
Evil guys using Red as their colour.Cant have blue Communists.

Now, DISPITE these links, Red Alert can NOT be associated with THE TD we know, its associated to AN ALTERNATE tiberian universe at the very most. Why?

United Nations, founded in 1945 as a repsonce to the end of WWII to replace the easy-to-get-around Leauge of Nations, which Hitler abused to rebuild his army and begin WWII. If you do not have THE World War II(The Pacific Theatre is still present, YET it is NOT a world war. The Pacific Theatre may be different to ours, ending maybe one, two years before 1945 as U.S.,UK/Commonwealths are able to put 100% effort forth on the Japanese, Perhaps Nukes were not used and a peace treaty was negotiated with Japan, we'll never know.), The Leauge of Nations would NOT be disbanded, Verasalles would NOT be violated. Though something happened to lift Versallies off of Germany between 1919-RAI for them to have an army. Thus, NO NEED FOR THE U.N., which GDI is the brainchild of.

Nod is supposidly the lovechild of the ex-Soviets, right? Not possible. Two reasons for this.
I:A map shown in a VQA showing GDI/Nod/Neutral alliances on a post 1991 map, the Russian Federation, Ukraine, and most ex-'SSRs are under GDI's wing, to the point that RUSSIA has a big GDI logo on it.

II:Political ideals between the CPSU/Bolshiveks and Kane are totally different things. On one hand we have the far left, the Communists. Communism writes off religion as a thing of the ages, a hand of capitalism to keep the proletairit enslaved out of fear from divine wraith. Now, Nod, on the other hand is a quasi-terrorist religious organization that PREACHES that Kane is Divine and will lead us to our 'Tiberium Future'(This is all true, of course. He will.), the exact opposite of Bolshivism. Both preach hatred of capitalism, However Nod, instead of a dictatorship of the proletairit, ushers people under a fundamentalist terror organization. (Also note Nod's allies, the IRA, Al Quaeda, and Islamic Fundamentalists being big ones.) Yet, LIKE communism, to further tie us up, Both have their cult of personality. Communism 's cults centre around 4-6 men, Karl Marx,Frederich Engles,Vladimir Lenin, Mao Zedong(Tes Tung), Joseph Stalin, and Leon Trotsky.(The latter two are hotly debated among Communists, Stalinists, and Trotskists, who dismiss oneanother as fools, of course.) The cult of personality around Kane can be compaired to that of Stalin, who, during the 40's, had such a grand cult around him, that statues of Stalin were not uncommon sights, portraits of the great Comrade Stalin with children, the slayer of Adolf Hitler and the fascist dragon, the guiding hand who would lead the people to a true 'Proletarit Dictatorship' as Lenin invisioned, going so far as to have the Lyrics of the Hymn of the USSR preaching his greatness! ("Stalin our leader, with faith in the people inspired us to build upon the land we love", Referring to the Soviet industrial revolution.)Of course this personality cult was smashed by his successor, one of the reasons of the Sino-Soviet split being Post-Stalinist Russia renouncing Stalin. Now, what does this have to do with Nod? Nod has a even bigger cult of personality around our man Kane, People preaching of his greatness, Temples built in his name, men dying for him in battle against the GDI dogs, People proclaiming him as a immortal deity who will guide the world into its Tiberian glory era. Of course this is all true...too.

Anyways, As we can see, Red Alert's small ties are too pathetic to hold it to TD...the two are a different universe(further proved by RA2 but im not getting into that shitpile which has one link, being a photo of Yuri and Stalin having tea at the Kremlin.), RA was originally intended to be the Cold War gone 'teh wrongz0rz', and the Allied forces the NATO alliance, Soviets the Warsaw Pact. However WW changed this and gave us the RA we know today.

Now, Like RA, Gen had no conenction to Tiberian, It was merely meant to be another alternate universe, and, a testbed for SAGE, see what could be done during that era with SAGE. BFME/BFME 2 also holding thee purposes, all to build a better SAGE for C&C3:TW.

"Ignore everything which was established in Tiberian Sun.

Ignore that GDI had well established mechs as their main battle units.

Ignore that Tiberium can be found in different states and colours, such as blue (and popularly believed Red) variant.

Ignore that Tiberium was not only terraforming the ground and atmosphere, but creating an entire Tiberium based ECOSYSTEM.
There was existance of Tiberium fauna and fona, as well as Tiberium lifeforms.

Ignore the predictions stated in Tiberian Sun and Firestorm, that within a year, the Earth would be incapable of supporting life as we know it. " Ignore the FireStorm ending when the Tacitus WAS decoded, and WAS opened up. The code had been cracked, the day won. CABAL cracked the tacitus before its "utter destruction". The reversal for Tiberium is KNOWN(we presume, according to Beaudro's gushing excitment.), What it is, everything, at the end of Firestorm, we discover from the final GDI mission. From the Final Nod mission we uncover CABAL and Kane's apparent link, and the 'grand siege' did little to kill the bastard, who, according to MANY CC3 and Continuum concept arts was going to come back with avengence and kick some Ass. Its really upsetting that THIS got totally ignored by EA, and they brought in the stupid Scrin, when Vega claimed the UFO was crafted by Kane in the TS missions, deepening the plot further. Asto wether Vega was pulling GDI's chain, or if Kane had indeed craftedd the UFO to lure GDI.(with the assisstance of CABAL, of course.), we may never know...Brothers.

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