How far game reviews can be trusted?

Banshee · Last edited by Banshee on Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

The most recent blog from Mike Verdu was quite successfull, however, it brought a lot of argument and fuel for the TD vs TS discussion, specially with the following words, easily twisted (or not) by many community fans:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This team has a tremendous passion for C&C and a sensibility that runs more towards the classic tank warfare in the very first Command & Conquer game than the mech-based weaponry in Tiberian Sun. So, we are building the game that we want to play, that we believe in and have great passion for, and that we think is the best expression of C&C."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can find several replies from Predator about it, however, one thing trully makes many people get worried:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no rule or law that says our game must look like an evolution of TS in technology just because its a sequel, theres just not, i'm sorry. We're taking inspiration from TS, but we happen to feel TD is more of where we envision the evolution of technology coming from for TW. The critics, fans, reviews liked TD a lot more than TS, look at the facts and reviews and the fan commuinty back then."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know a lot of people who really want C&C3 as a sequel of Tiberian Sun, however, EA guys prefer a TD sequel, including Predator. It is interesting the way he blindly trust the reviews so much, forgetting the way they are done, to justify their decisions.

While I must admit that I do not write reviews for game, I have seen and read a lot of them. Let's bring some important facts about reviews:

1) Reviews are based in the gaming context of the moment, on the quality of the current competition and even in the evolution of the game compared to previous games of the same industry.

Command & Conquer Tiberian Dawn brought a lot of new features compared to the competition games. The full motion videos, the 3D animations, Frank Klepacki's 8-bit audio music instead of ugly midi songs, the attractive storyline and the fast and fluid gameplay were a big step for the RTS genre, which was very new genre at that moment.

These things were available with a better quality (except for the fast fluid gameplay) in Tiberian Sun, but they weren't a news anymore, because the competition also had 3D animation, non-midi musics, full motion movies.. Of course it reduces that 'wow factor'. TS also had its inovations in terms of new gameplay tactics, deformable terrain, 3D units with voxels, an amazing environment and rich storyline. But these are not as remarkable as these major improvements on visual and audio technologies.

2) Bad coding may affect gameplay, but it does not mean that an environment and storyline is worse or less liked.

When you play Tiberian Sun, buy a lot of vehicles and aircrafts and you look at them in the screen, do you feel that laaaaaaaaaaaag? Specially in the machines that were common back in 1999, like Pentium 2 and even Pentium MMX. The lag didn't happen on Red Alert 2. Do you know why? Because they've made a voxel caching system, which used a bit more RAM, but wiped the lag by reducing the processor use when rendering each voxel. Of course lags are annoying and affects reviews negativelly.

So, my conclusion is that we need to watch these reviews carefully before restricting elements from a specific game in a new one, because the older one was better rated in reviews.

Renegade · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject:

You forgot an important aspect regarding Tiberian Sun and reviews:

The initial promotional screenshots were all heavily photoshopped. When the review-versions arrived at the gaming magazines, the game looked nothing like the screenshots had promised, which obviously resulted in a very negative attitude towards the game.

At least one German magazine changed their rules afterwards to not rely on and use promotional screenshots anymore, Wikipedia talks of "several".

_________________
#renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link

Muldrake · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject:

I can't agree with you more on this post, Banshee.

This is one of the reasons I've stopped hoping for the sequel to TS, because they are so stubborn that they're right that everyone wants a TD sequel than a TS sequel that nothing is convincing them otherwise. I think they've developed the game too much around this ideal that its too much to go back on it.

As a result, the only way I see a TS sequel is through a mod.

TS was shadowed by Starcraft, but that doesn't make it a bad game. Tiberian Sun has a very large community, and most of them truely love it for what it is, which tells me that they did something right.

My only complaint with TS was that they got rushed, and didn't have everything in which was originally planned. But what was in it, I loved wholey.

It was a brilliant game. It is balanced, but only to those who are actually willing to use strategy. Who are willing to play a game which is beyond the usual equal units per side concept.

CNC was the original, and for most people, the original is always best. But for me, and for a lot of others, TS is brilliant in its own way, and deserves to be included.

If "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" was not as liked by everyone as much as "Star Wars: A New Hope", would George Lucas have excluded 90% of what happened in the second film, for the "Star Wars: Return of the Jedi"?
I'd say no.

Would "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" have been completely ignored if it didn't quite get the box office hits at "Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring"?
Again, I'd say no.

And before anyone says, "But yeah, Star Wars is a story.."
So is the Tiberian Universe. Its the story of how Tiberium affects the world, changes it, and the battle between GDI and Nod.
It is a story, and a game. And that is what the CNC we know and love, is.

Just like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings were already written before it was made into films, the story of the Tiberium world of CNC has already been written, and concepted.. somewhere.

And before Carno comes along and says "Yeah, but this is based on WW's concept of CNC3!!!!111!!!"
1) Stop claiming to know what WW's plans were. You've seen the concepts to which everyone else has, and nothing more. You don't know more than us.
2) The original concept and storyline was done before the finalisation of Tiberian Sun. As a result, it wouldn't have included the mass removal of every trace of Tiberian Sun, due to its apparent "failure".

So.. for EA..
Redundant number one:
You don't change a story due to popularity. (Unless you really are a lame-ass suck up.)
Redundant number two:
Get your facts straight on the actual popularity of the game..

_________________
If there is a problem on the forums, PM me.

Clarkson · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject:

How far can game preveiws be trusted, too? Look at Tiberian Sun. The preveiw screenshots were SOO nice. A clean and crisp look to the atmosphere, smooth animations and voxels. Hellagood amount of explosions, debris littering the ground, Nice cameos, Dynamic lighting and the NEED for light posts.

What did we get? a dull enviorment(honestly, how many Tiberian Sun maps are actually well detailed and very good for the eyes? Some have broken triggers(Cliffs of Insanity's ion storm should loop but it doesnt, Cityscape has a whole trainset that doesnt even move.). Some have BROKEN AI that doesnt even WORK!(Theme Park.) Dynamic lighting was scrapped, the voxels are pixelated and hard to make out(Disruptor, for example.) Its no wonder why Tiberian Sun was a flop from the excutive's point of veiw. The story's good, very good, but it took untill Firestorm to get near all the features planned. Westwood should've played more with their voxel and SHP tools instead of Adobe Photoshop.

But the reveiws being ass doesnt mean canon should be ignored by EA. No no no, EA should be mending these faults and improving upon it. Luckally they are avoiding the Adobe Photoshop for C&C3 preveiws.

_________________
PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade.

mice16 · Pyro Sniper **Joined**: 26 Jul 2005

Personally, I liked TD more then TS... More because it placed you in the commanders seat, rather then MacNeil.

But really, even I see that a sequel = AFTER TS.

_________________

[quote="Lt A1br3cht"]Kill it with fire!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Oshog · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:16 am Post subject:

Tiberian Wars will only become a TS sequel through a mod. No other way. Sad

But, if the games gets enough popularity, a succesful mod might actually be used by EA as a sequel/offical expansion and in the end, something like CS could be born.

NiGhtPiSH · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:

EA will shit up the Game Sad

I mean it just the ugly tiberium.... And then everuthing else

Dreadlord · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

I do not trust any reviews. For exmaple, one game magazine praises the game, another one tells that is sucks, the third will have its own opinion.

imo, with enough money you can make those critic guys write whatever you want. It's better to watch yourself than to read other opinions.

_________________

Xenon · Civilian **Joined**: 04 Oct 2006

I agree with every point made in this debate.

Westwood Studios initially created C&C 95 (Tiberian Dawn) after their hit with the Dune Series. Though some of the technology used in the gameplay, graphics and such are not of todays standard, the essence of command & conquer 95 was a game to enjoy.

That essence of C&C gameplay is with all of those fans whom have played all the original series and the expansion packs. It was not a game in reality and not the best looking game around however, The story, The Villians, The good guys and the campaigns were impeccable and to me have not been beaten as of yet.

C&C is now a fully induced EA game, The essence is no longer there. The quote "we are leaning more towards TD and its tank based warfare as it was enjoyed by everyone" is absolute total Bull***t, excuse my language. The true meaning of Command & Conquer is just that a game based in alternate dimensions to our own earth and its own history, The games were designed to do just what the title says and that is Command & Conquer.

Unrealistic these games set a standard in the RTS genre that still cannot be beat, EA induced C&C titles such as RA2 & YR,Generals & Zero Hour and Renegade lost the true meaning of C&C, The graphics may have been to some degree better than its predecessors but in terms of gameplay and units the games totally sucked.. These are not what C&C intended to be. There is NO original plot, There is nothing Original and There is no Command & Conquer.

All C&C games are westwood brands and cannot be changed to this date, the true meaning of the game died when EA shut them down. The best form of Command & Conquer game we can expect and play today are those 3 original titles and fan based built modifications & nothing more.

C&C was never entirely tank based in all 3 original titles you got a taste of Tank & Mech Warfare, Infantry Warfare, Naval Warfare and strategic Aircraft Assualts.

The only thing the new C&C 3 engine is good for now is to build newer versions of the original C&C titles.

C&C = Build, Defend, Assualt & Destroy and the most important factor was the Fun.

Banshee · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:52 pm Post subject:

I've took my time to re-read what I wrote and I rewrote most of the things. It's amazing how you can write so badly when you are late for the university...

Dubzac · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:27 am Post subject:

well guys thats your answer ...this is what ive been tring to say for months thanks banshee.

_________________
Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click

Raptor · Grenadier **Joined**: 04 Jan 2004 **Location**: .hr

just to comment on carno...
i wouldnt spit on WS regarding graphic and unfinished work, since im sure you well know that game was delayed due Virgin -> EA deal and then rushed by EA which made TS not so well accepted.

tho i myself very much liked TS no matters it was unfinished.

i just regret we havent seen those all new plant life forms that was included in reaperrr mod (think it was his...) and knowing you wont see it in C&C3...

well i wont comment what i think of EA Smile

altho those thugs on CNCDEN started to flame how EA is continuing story what Westwood wrote...
uhh ohh its clearly they are not...

Dubzac · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:36 am Post subject:

well said Raptor i couldn't put it better my self .

_________________
Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click

Remus · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject:

I agree with you entirely, Banshee. This certainly wouldn't be the first time I've seen people take reviews of games out of the context of the time at which the game was first released and used those reviews to twist a game's story of perceived success or failure.

IVI · Commander **Joined**: 25 Jun 2006 **Location**: Feilubin

well, trusting reviews is at a person's discretion. To be honest, I trust PCgamer more than any other reviewing group (although very closely followed by Gamespot). I owe my PC-gaming to PCgamer. I used to be more of a socialite rather than a gamer but the more I learned about PC-games, the more I got hooked up. Most of the Game Universes that I got introduced to, took to heart and became involved with (e.g. Fallout, Heroes of Might and Magic, C&C, Kyrandia series, Half Life) are because of the encouragement of PCgamer. So I guess it's up to you whether you see the reviewers as pricks or as fair critics.

Orca004ky · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:06 am Post subject:

If they were going to be squads, I wish you could assemble your own squads, so that you can have varying tactical control.

No gates? Stupid.

_________________
DRIZZT DO'URDEN AKA ORCA004ky
SCORPION'S REVENGE MOD LEADER
http://www.cnc-source.com/forums/index.php?showforum=27