Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:
first 3D model [WIP]
Well It's supposed to become a titan. I'm sure I made lots of mistakes since I just started working with 3Dsmax. I don't know for instance how to weld things together and add new vector points. I also make every single part seperate and put them in place afterwards. So it's a model made of loose parts basicly I don't know if this is the right way to make a model from scratch but so far I have this result. If some good modelers here could give me some feedback and take a look at the model I would be really greatfull.
Looks good for your first 3D! I am the first to download and will see what it looks like after I see it in voxel format. _________________ My name is Shadow... I am Lord of the Shadows! NOD rules!!!!
not that bad for a first try, actually. as for adding new "vector points", i assume you mean vertices, and that's under the edit tab when you have vertices selected. go way down and you will see "insert" as well as "weld". all of this is done while it's a spline btw, it's easier that way you can also weld once you have extruded or surfaced a spline by making sure it's a mesh (if it's extruded) just look through the edit tab and you should see it, just select the vertices you want to weld, make sure they are on top of each other, and click "weld". if it's a surfaced object, convert it to editable poly and then just run the weld method after selecting all of the vertices. it's not very far down at all so it shouldn't be too hard to find if you need any more help, just feel to send me a PM and i'll be more than glad to help _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Wow, how can you be so good if that is your first?! When I tried 3D, I could hardly make a cube... I did hear that 3DS max is easier to handle than most. I hope that's true, because I'm getting it soon enough... =) QUICK_EDIT
looks really nice...
the models i did in 3dsmax where basicly some primitives that i modified and merged...
like some really awesome stuff that you´ll see once jeeves posts it _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject:
you should make everything from 1 piece. using the extrude option (this is how rika-chan taught me, though that was with a char model. now im stuck on the bones <_<) _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
you should make everything from 1 piece. using the extrude option (this is how rika-chan taught me, though that was with a char model. now im stuck on the bones <_<)
I use multiple pieces for pretty much anything. In fact everything from TM has been made that way. QUICK_EDIT
you should make everything from 1 piece. using the extrude option (this is how rika-chan taught me, though that was with a char model. now im stuck on the bones <_<)
Carnivean wrote:
I use multiple pieces for pretty much anything. In fact everything from TM has been made that way.
It really depends on what you will want to do with the model later on. If you are going to be rigging the model with bones, such as infantry, you will want to have the entire model be one object (usually, there are exceptions).
If you are going to be creating an animated voxel (using 3ds2vxl), you will have to create each voxel section as a seperate object in max. Taktics makes full use of both methods. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
you can always attach and detach meshes from each other later.
anyway to save you from some trouble in case you are going to be using 3ds2vxl later, because of a bug or because we don't understand exactly how 3ds files work. you can't move, rotate, or scale pivots independantly. if you want the pivot situated a certain way, you'll have to do it to the entire mesh and then do the opposite to all the mesh vertices. if you've already done something to the pivots you can just hit the reset pivot button.
about the loose parts. yeah it's probably good for non morphing models to have the parts be seperate but for animation purposes you will probably want the meshes animation linked. it's just for animation so when you move one mesh then other meshes will move also. all the parts will still be seperate meshes. you can unlink meshes anytime and to link you just press the link button and draw lines between meshes. you've got to draw them in the right direction but if you do it wrong just do it again the opposite way and it should be overwritten if i recall correctly.
btw welding, according to 3dsmax, is when you convert multiple vertices to 1. to physically connect meshes into 1 you can use boolean to do it quickly but there's many different ways to do it. anyway during modelling sometimes by accident you'll end up with many duplicate vertices in the same place. if you are worried you might have some of these you can just highlight all the vertices in a mesh and make it weld according to distance and any nearby vertices will automatically unify with one another. when you convert from max to 3ds format the software will automatically create these duplicate vertices because of the fact that 3ds vertexes can only have one UV coordinate so that means this will happen at every texture seam. to convert these back nicely into max format you'd want to do the weld thing i mentioned and in 3ds2vxl there's an option to treat these vertexes as joined so that the smoothing looks nice otherwise texture seams cause smoothing seams in the 3ds versions of models.
btw to all 3dsmax users. don't stress if materials are hard to understand because personally i hate 3dsmax's shaders. i think they are counter-intuitive and basically not realistic. Last edited by ViPr on Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:27 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
@roani52:
Blender is a free, open-source modelling/animation/rendering program. I recently downloaded it to test it on linux, as max doesnt have a native version for linux (and i bet max and wine would be a bad combo... ) and was quite impressed. It needs some getting used to, but its becoming better and better.
@stingerr:
Looks good from the pic, but can't open it here at school (got max 7 running). If you want to animate it, keep it as seperate objects. For mechanical stuff, you usually dont want any deformations. I'll take a closer look at it when i get home and come up with some suggestions. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Location: Flying into hostile territory
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject:
DJFreestyler wrote:
Blender is a free, open-source modelling/animation/rendering program. I recently downloaded it to test it on linux, as max doesnt have a native version for linux (and i bet max and wine would be a bad combo... ) and was quite impressed. It needs some getting used to, but its becoming better and better.
can this program read gmax and w3d and export them to 3ds with little to none loss in quality? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
NO! Not a single program in the world (except Gmax itself) can read .gmax files. On top of that, Blender is such a confusing program, I have no idea how anyone can use it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
NO! Not a single program in the world (except Gmax itself) can read .gmax files. On top of that, Blender is such a confusing program, I have no idea how anyone can use it.
You're right about the gmax part. Blenders interface takes a bit of getting used to, however there are good documents available about it. Then again, i have a few years of 3ds max experience now, so i guess im just used to 3d stuff and take a lot for granted.
@ORCACommander: It can export to .3ds, however i dont know about the quality as i myself never use it. Its an old format that has many disadvantages. For a gmax or w3d importer i suppose you could write it yourself, as blender uses python for scripting, and from what i heard python is an easy scripting language. QUICK_EDIT
Judging from the preview pic, this looked like a reasonable first try. Then I downloaded it and opened it in max...
Uh.. I'm actually speechless. Why didn't anyone comment on this...
Stingerr, I can't believe you have wasted your time with using Splines and then mirroring the result onto itself. If you are going to use Splines, fine, but please use the Symmetry modifier after you converted it into Editable Poly. The alternative to Splines is box modelling, though it's entirely up to you to see which is easier.
The number of separate pieces is exaggerate only because you are colouring the objects and not texturing them. Since this is your first foray into 3d, I'll let it slide.
A nice first try, but you are making more work for yourself. I await the next version. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Well here is my second version .. been busy with it all evening and I'm still not finished with it . Still needs more detail. Everything is now modelled from boxes/cilinders and symmetrized splines like you said afrikado. Thanks a damn lot for telling me this. Now I can actually mkae stuff that works and I will need that for my CnC3-mod
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Now I can actually mkae stuff that works and I will need that for my CnC3-mod
You are getting way ahead of yourself.
You should concentrate on improving your modelling skills before you tackle a 3d engine that requires a low polygon (no 32 sided cylinders), skinned and rigged model.
Making assets for older games, like TS/RA2, helps as great practice...
Quote:
afrikado
Damn you people! *shakes fist*
If you can't spell it, use "Ari".
Edit:
Oops, I guess I should comment on the model itself.
You're still colouring the objects as you make them, which is a big waste since you are (or are you?) going to texture it afterward.
Lots of pieces that should have been extruded, like the toes, gun barrel, etc.
You can smooth out the surface normals with (wait for it...) the Smooth modifier! Select an object (like that cylindrical one behind the gun) and apply it. Just don't go overboard with the threshold. >_>
Really, though, I can't think of anything else to tell you except to try and optimize what you make. Especially if you are planning on creating assets for a 3d engine.
Do you plan on animating this beast or is this merely the first of many 'test' models? And no max file this time? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Here it is. By the way I'm coloring it so I can have a look what its about to become when I am going to texture it. It doesnt have any purpose at all, bu t I dont care . I guess thats the way I like to work right now. About the polygons I am aware of that, but i think this is easy to fix by removing obsolete vertices from these parts and creating a relatively low poly-count. The thing you shouldnt forget anyway is the fact CnC3 is a rather advanced game with high-standard graphics.. so I'm planning to make my models a tad more detailed then I would do them if they were intended for use in Generals.
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:42 am Post subject:
Im in ur thread, likin ur titan, and wantin ur RA2 voxels.
The titan's nice, but you're missing some things on the turret, the smoke grenade launchers, for one, but the rest of the problems'll be solved by a skin, so, its good. How big is it compaired to say, a Generals soldier? _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
I don't have a clue.. But it doesnt matter anyways since i can resize it whenver I want to without losing detail. _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
I'll just say this though, if you are aiming for a RTS model in a 3d engine, the detail is in the texture and not the model itself.
6k polys per unit is staggering. Most of which is in the cylindrical pieces, including the antennae for some strange reason. It can easily be brought down to half.
I see some pieces have their pivot points elsewhere. The black diagonal piece behind the gun has its pivot somewhere lost behind the model. Very bad if you want to rotate it.
Easily fixable by going into the Hierarchy tab (beside Modify). After hitting "Affect Pivot Only", hit the "Center to Object" button underneath. Or you can set where you want the pivot to be. Whatever works.
Nice work. You'll be making your voxels in 3ds Max in no time.
Oh my god that is awesome . Altough it's not for making voxels actually Im just glad this is the right way to build something . Im actually still awed by the simplicity of 3d-moddeling. I thought it would be much harder to learn.
About the polys, theres an easy explanation for that. The antenna's are tiny cilinders, so is the barrel, the two bars ounder the feet and in the legs as well.. *I think most of the 6K comes from that. Its pretty much but i still think my videocard is able to handel them quitte well.. As for some of the lower budget cards I'm not so sure. I will look into it and make sure the polycount gets down.
Just 1 question, how do you show the polycount in 3dsmax? I'm still a newb _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
Well, you are still modelling, in my opinion, inappropriately. You should discourage yourself from slapping multiple primitives together and try to make as much as you can from 1 box.
And you haven't touched upon texture unwrap/wrapping and, ChielScape's favourite, rigging with a bone structure.
Polygon count, in 3ds Max 8 (not 9, as they changed it) is in the Utilities tab (the Hammer). If you don't see it there, click on the 'More' button.
Be advised that most (if not all) game engines look at the Tri count and not the Poly count from Max. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
yes RTS models generally have to be extremely low poly but thanks to new tools, artists can create high and low poly versions of models and the software can automatically generate texture detail for the low poly model from the high poly geometry and textures. this is not limited to only game engines that support normal maps. you can even use it for old games that only use one texture. it's called baking. QUICK_EDIT
Well arikado I took notice of the things you said and I brought the triangle-count down to 1944(1804 polygon) without losing much of the detail. I used a plugin called Polygon cruncher and its working out pretty well for me. very easy to use and really handy if you ask me . I fixed the barrelholder problem excisting from 2 pieces and I made it into 1 piece now.
About the moddeling-from-one-box thing, I'd like to know what exactly is bad about making seperate pieces and putting them together afterwards? They show up in game just fine? Or dont they..?
EDIT: I have it ingame (on the model of the paladin but it works well) Just for testing purposes and to see how big it would be. Now I get to resizing and replacing the whole tank.
Polygon Cruncher sounds awfully like the Optimise modifier. As long as the job gets done, I suppose.
Box modelling removes redundant polygons that you will never see. You can remove them manually, but it'll take time.
Removing these polygons is very helpful when you start unwrapping them for texturing and painting polys or editing the weight table (fun!) when you start rigging. Less stress and work.
I guess it comes down to personal preference.
Now that you see how over-proportioned the model is in the game, do you really think +1900 tris is fine? You'll barely be able to make out the ridges along the barrel or the antennae or any of the 'details' you didn't want to be lost.
Also, is the model supposed to be facing backwards in the max file? Or is that a w3d thing? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Your 3d models really kick ass. Yet I think titan have there knee a bit more bent in stationary state (if you consider those of the cut scenes) QUICK_EDIT
W3D. I can fix that in a minute by rotating the model 90 degrees.. Anyway I dont get any slowdowns from the model itself.. I made like 50 titan-paladins and still get a solid 30 FPS... _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
Thats probably due to your GFX handling the tri count with ease :p
Anyway, box modeling is a great technique, simply because you don't have to plan everything ahead. You can just create a basic shape and add more detail as you go along. Also, it removes the entire need for a plug in like that one you are using. Even though i usually use different object also, i combine them together because it also makes animating a hell of a lot easier. I suggest you take a look at the video tutorials at www.3d-palace.com , they're really good and can learn you a lot about poly modeling.
I took the liberty of editing the model you provided before the low poly one, i hope you dont mind. I was able to reduce the triangle count from ~6000 to ~4000 with only removing redundant vertices and faces. I also adjusted the hierarchy, now it can be easily animated with fk, even easier were you to add IK solvers. I made a render version, just for fun. If you want i can explain everything i did, however that would be quite a long post...
holy christ Thanks a lot man. I had to blink my eyes several times first before i actually saw it was made by me and not just another one you made Thanks a lot! _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
wow- that is very nice stingerr. i like the detail that was put in it. if you want,you can PM me the model and i can make up a nice render scene and everything for it. the only thing that i might change on the model is that low-poly circle thing above the gun and make the entire model smoother and increasing the poly count. other than thati would have to say that's a very nice job for a first 3-d model. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
well its meant to go ingame so i rendered the gameversion which has 3500 triangles to be exact. personally I think that isn't a lot since the deezire tutorial states a low polygon model has about 900 polygons. The tutorial on that site is allready there for atleast 3 years, and when I look at GFX development today I think it's safe to state the standard of a model being low-poly has gone upward. I allready tested this thing in generals without a single bump of lag, I made nearly 100 of them (then I ran out of resources). My graphicscard is heavy, yes, but I think a lot of cheaper graphic cards are just as capable of reproducing this model smoothly as the one i have. _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
I dont like the background it interferes with the image. _________________ "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." QUICK_EDIT
Well I made a crapload of cute pinky titans a few minutes ago. I got a solid 30 FPS when I made like 70 of them.. then I gave them all drones. thats where I lost the 30 FPS and was cut back to 24-25. If there is anyone on this forum who can give me a good reason to build 70+ freaking titans for offensive use and still be expecting to get a good framerate please comment :p ?
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you guys need to round your edges meaning your sharp edges are supposed to be tiny curves. so far i don't know if there's a plug-in yet to do it. and btw when i say round your edges i don't mean literally. you could do some tricks to give the impression that they are rounded. it could be done merely by texture tricks. look at the visual difference here, this is a non texture way of doing it just to show the look you must try to achieve somehow:
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first 3D model [WIP]
I don't know if this is the right way to make a model from scratch but so far I have this result. If some good modelers here could give me some feedback and take a look at the model I would be really greatfull.
you can also weld once you have extruded or surfaced a spline by making sure it's a mesh (if it's extruded) just look through the edit tab and you should see it, just select the vertices you want to weld, make sure they are on top of each other, and click "weld". if it's a surfaced object, convert it to editable poly and then just run the weld method after selecting all of the vertices. it's not very far down at all so it shouldn't be too hard to find 
if you need any more help, just feel to send me a PM and i'll be more than glad to help 
I'm still a newb 
