hmm yes well since it seems the judges didnt judge too carefully, I wonder why i even joined this competition in the first place.. I spent 2 full days to model this chopper, looked over it for like a 1000 times to see if i forget anything important wich might affect the scores, still I end up fifth, and below voxels clearly build much simpler. It's dumb.. and i see no reason to compete in future contests if the outcome is going to be like this. I dont want to be an asshole, but yes, I am pissed over this _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
hey...that´s exactly what happened atleast once to me...
that´s why i entered a bananbomber... _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Actually, rami, the voxel was not supposed to be released publicly for download. There were no rules against posting pictures.
And yeah, I was pretty surprized Stingerr didn't get in the top 3. I absolutelly love his Mi35. Perfect job. Don't know why Xeno and Daeda gave it lower marks.
And sorry for no screenshots, but I'm dead tired and can't find the will to take them today. Sorry guys. If someone else wants to take them, I'd be more than happy.
And, if more than three people are not satisfied with the results (no matter if they joined or not), I'm pretty sure we can make a recount, with five judges this time. What do you all say? (it is a FREEDOM Studis contest aftert all )
And raminator, I was so dissapointed at your entry. It was such a good model, but such poor colouring and normals I so wish you could remake it. QUICK_EDIT
the normals that what 3ds2vxl gave me...
so blame it for the normals as it seems that it has problems with bigger models... (or maybe it´s just the shape of the model...)
but i don´t want to say something wrong...so please correct me if i am...
and the bananabomber was just my try to submit the most useless unit to the contest... _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
ok there... i just reviewed all voxels except mine and came up with following results
all based on vxlviewer
MadHQ - Bull Dog Mech [95pts]
A) Originality: 22/25
B) Normals: 20/20
C) Coloring: 18/20
D) Technical Competence : 35/35
Stingerr - Mi35[ [93pts]
A) Originality: 20/25
B) Normals: 20/20
C) Coloring: 18/20
D) Technical Competence : 35/35
Mig Eater - Yukikaze [92pts]
A) Originality: 20/25
B) Normals: 19/20
C) Coloring: 18/20
D) Technical Competence : 35/35
Rattuskid - Soviet Heavy Bomber [86pts]
A) Originality: 20/25
B) Normals: 18/20
C) Coloring: 15/20
D) Technical Competence : 33/35
Rawlo - Orca [81pts]
A) Originality: 23/25
B) Normals: 15/20
C) Coloring: 13/20
D) Technical Competence : 30/35
•Tony• - Reaper Tank [77pts]
A) Originality: 22/25
B) Normals: 15/20
C) Coloring: 15/20
D) Technical Competence : 25/35
Sleepwalker - Rhino Mk. ll [71pts]
A) Originality: 20/25
B) Normals: 13/20
C) Coloring: 13/20
D) Technical Competence : 25/35
Sherman_buster - T-35 Heavy Tank [70pts]
A) Originality: 20/25
B) Normals: 13/20
C) Coloring: 12/20
D) Technical Competence : 25/35
Team Black - Cement Truck [68pts]
A) Originality: 18/25
B) Normals: 15/20
C) Coloring: 10/20
D) Technical Competence : 25/35
ihateharriers - FS Tomcat [61pts]
A) Originality: 15/25
B) Normals: 13/20
C) Coloring: 18/20
D) Technical Competence : 15/35
Tyler Adams - Intruder [50pts]
A) Originality: 10/25
B) Normals: 10/20
C) Coloring: 10/20
D) Technical Competence : 20/35
4StarGeneral - Super Terror Drone [40pts]
A) Originality: 18/25
B) Normals: 2/20
C) Coloring: 5/20
D) Technical Competence : 15/35 _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Well, Mig Eater, I wasn't really satisfied with what you entered. Perfect model, almoast no creativity. It was just a plane.
raminator, like I said - this could be reworked to create something a lot better. I'm really sorry that you left it somewhat unfinished.
With Mig Eater's complain and Sleepwalkers, I belive we have three complaints. I'll wait untill tommorow for everyone to say what they have to, then I'll organise something. It's really a shame this didn't work out as planned
EDIT: Just saw your post rami - I can't agree with a lot of points in it. But let's see what everyone else thinks. Last edited by Oshog on Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Stop the presses! There has been a slight mix up with Daeda's results and this changes the overall results of the competition. Please wait a bit while I sort things out.
This is really serious. Please wait just a few moments.
@ Mig - actually, ihateharriers scored 24/25 points from me for Accuracy, not Originality. And even though your plane, although fictionus, just isn't original in my opinion. It just looks...too normal. QUICK_EDIT
Yep.. and the judging seems to be pretty weird in my honest opinion. I'm not a fast complainer but some things are just plain silly. For example Daeda:
My entry (MI-35):
A) Accuracy: 20/25 - Accurate, but added too much weapons, forgot some important details and seems too thin
Ihateharriers Entry (FS Tomcat):
A) Accuracy: 23/25 - Cockpit should have been a bit bigger. Overall really accurate
Yeh well accurate.. Forgot some important details? Like what? Oh I see, this tomcat has waaay more details then my helicopter . Aint the "too much weapons" suppose to add accuracy or is it me? "Seems too thin".. yeah well dude.. maybe you should try google and see if I made it too thin.
@ Xeno, dont take my critisism as an offense, it isnt meant that way but I have some things to point out:
My entry:
Technical Competence – 30
Summary: Colouring need a bit of work, however the cameo effect looks nice, as is the modelling of the body. The Rotor animation adds to the technical competence since it is nicely thought of. However like aircraft I feel a slight unoriginality with Chopper vxls.
ihateharriers entry:
Technical Competence : 31/35
Summary: A very nicely designed vxl. With good accuracy to the real plane, although the colouring could be perfected just slightly. Otherwise very nice indeed, for an aircraft.
So this plane still gets one point more then me, still it has no animation whatsoever, and I don't see why a fighter is more original then a helicopter? With other words, I would have gotten less points if I hadn't bothered to animate my rotorblades
For the record, I don't care if I lose. But I don't exactly see voxels that were miles better then the one I did and therefore deserve more points (except the one MadHQ did). I'm just being honest here.
Stingerr wrote:
@ raminator
And that is so true too. I expected everybody to make original voxels the public hadnt seen before, and what happens? Voxels I already know and saw end up 2 and 3 in this competition??? Well how stupid is that? Mad
Edit: LoL the entry of ihateharriers was made public untill he edited his post on December 10th. I wonder why he did that? Rolling Eyes Im not stupid.. he just deleted the zip included in the post. Same goes for the topic he made here.
i'm not quite sure why i end up the scapegoat here, but that is something i would like explained.
as for your voxel, i am very surprised that i beat yours - i thought you did a great job and am not quite sure as to why yours wasn't placed a bit higher in the competition. as for the download thing, those two very different voxels, so don't start your shit about "meh i've already seen these" cause they are both different. i spent a lot of time on that voxel, especially on normals and colors and getting it to look as close to the blueprint as i could get it and i don't appreciate someone trying to make it sound like i submitted garbage and came out on top cause they want to feel better about placing lower.
i apologize for dealing with this situation like this but i was ecstatic when i found out i came in third, and now to have people use me as a scapegoat or denounce my voxel really pisses me off because i know how hard i worked on that thing and how much time and frustration it cost me. before this competition had begun i knew nothing about normals and simply could not do them. i put in many hours of effort so i that could get those normals correct so i that i could have a chance of winning this competition and when the results are released one comment on my normals was "spot on" - that right there made me rather proud of how much i had improved.
when i entered this competition i did it so that i could submit my best work, have it judged against the best in the community, and see whether or not i could compete with best. i thought that i had proved that i could by beating Mig, Stingerr, and rami, who i do consider to be the best in the community, but all i catch is shit from each and every one of them about my voxel. guess what - if you got a problem, you know where to stick it. This voxel was judged by three competent people who made their decision based upon criteria that they had laid out, so as far as i am concerned, i beat you fair and square - and that is something i will not apologize for. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Actually, rami, the voxel was not supposed to be released publicly for download. There were no rules against posting pictures.
Hate as much to be doin this as I am.. Uni shouldn't have been disqualified, and ihateharriers should be, his was not only released but previewed.. _________________ "Banned" RP here QUICK_EDIT
No he shouldn't have been banned and he won't be. Universal is an idiot and will get banned even if he satrt breathing near me.
And I have one thing to ask you all people - just wait for tommorow - I need a little sleep right now, so I can think things up clearly in the morning. Don't fight or flame, as it's certain that there will be a second round.
And I have one thing to ask you all people - just wait for tommorow - I need a little sleep right now, so I can think things up clearly in the morning. Don't fight or flame, as it's certain that there will be a second round.
Good night and pleasant dreams.
listen to him
@ihh
imho there where only 2 totally competent judge in all vxl competitions and that was Major Gilbear and arg (i´m not counting me in coz i officially only judged once)
so i think it´s like in most comps before that not the entries are the problem but more the judges or the judgingsystem... _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
I never said your voxel sucked.. Let that be one clear thing. I never said you werent good at voxeling either. I think your entry looks decent enough. Points on wich i disagree tough is the fact you tell me you did all you can to make it look totally different then the one you released before. Maybe the texture looks different, maybe you updated the normals, but that's it. You didn't make it from scratch but you based it on your F-15 model. That's fine, but don't come here and tell everybody you were sooo busy making this, because I say that's straight bull (no offence). I made my whole heli from scratch and didn't had to base it on a previous model either.
If you feel sending in an allready released, updated model, that's your choice. If the judges still think it totally rocks and is incredibly original, it says something about the value of this competition. maybe you should have thought about actually creating something prior to this competition, so people have new material to look at (making this competition actually interesting). I bet you think it would be pretty stupid to see the same models (slightly updated every time) all over again at every single competition in the future. That's the main reason why I made something new too.
That's all I have to say _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:39 am Post subject:
wow..
just wow..
ZOMG! methinks we need a repeat of the Florida Recount...
some shit's seriously fvcked up here... First off. .Rami should have been first, because the day you get bombed to hell by a gaint fvcking banana is a day to be celebrated...
I should have submitted a naval voxel. _________________ "Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there." -Adam Young QUICK_EDIT
No offence, Harriers, but.. Stingerr's is just.. better. It may be a hair too thin, but that's just my opinion. HOWEVER.. Harrier's entry was basic, huge, and.. well.. did _NOT_ blend in with any side's colors.
Yes, my A6 was imperfect, and I did expect a low spot, and it was undetailed, but I was at least expecting to get some points on the fact it.. sorta.. fit in with the Allied color scheme, or even the cheesy RA2 style.
Sorry if I seem harsh, Harriers, just, the only way to improve is listening to constructive criticism, even if you don't post what you did it. _________________ "Banned" RP here QUICK_EDIT
first of all, that voxel was made from scratch some time this summer.i did not make any sort of 3d model and just convert it. as for your voxel stingerr, i personally think that it's better than mine and probably should have gotten third instead of me. i just don't appreciate the comments that make it sound like i didn't do anyhting - between the first building over the summer and the massive improvements made for the comp, i most likely spent as much time on that voxel as you did yours.i know that you guys will probably have the whole thing rejudged and i will probably place much lower but at least i can say the original decision had me in third, and i did not second guess the judges decision because i felt that i should've done much better. if you didn't like the way the comp turned out, don't enter the next time it happens and you won't have to deal with this so-called incompetency on the judges behalf. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: Oz, but near Melbourne, so its ok
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:54 am Post subject:
Quote:
Sorry if I seem harsh, Harriers, just, the only way to improve is listening to constructive criticism
I've been the source of harriers constructive crit, and as such have half a dozens versions of his voxel I would be willing to send the judges to demonstrate its a very different voxel. Something completely original may have been better, but if you judged his original two-color unnormalled one he'd be last, and I think that fact makes it quite clear that its different. As for stingerrs being better, its technically far inferior, having poor normals, the hva looked off and bounds that make me cringe. (Don't get me wrong Stingerr, its definately one hell of a sexy voxel that I'd be willing to use had I a use).
And if you did disqualify half the field and rejudged you'd only be doing it based on what people want rather than the original judging criteria, so any result would be completely rigged and meaningless, especially as you could just bitch about it again and again until you end up on top.
I think if anything, a new competition would be better, the failure here was with the rules themselves, rather than the adminstration or contestants. _________________
MSN Status: (if says mobile, talk anyway) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:13 am Post subject:
well.. the next time there's a competition, i'm entering something TOTALLY out there..
Usability=10 out of 15 but the originality 30 out of 15...
and size and detail...
thing was a bitch to make..
sorry i'm rambling because i'm pissed that OS voxel view fucked up my entire windows... _________________ "Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there." -Adam Young QUICK_EDIT
Well if there is another one i will be a judge... Might i recommend the judges... Me, raminater,and maybe Migy... _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
(Permissions) - (F.A.Q.) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: Oz, but near Melbourne, so its ok
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:12 am Post subject:
Thats a silly idea Mad, one of you three should be availible to win, I should judge _________________
MSN Status: (if says mobile, talk anyway) QUICK_EDIT
i agree with jeeves about the new competition. in that case i would enter something new, so that way i wouldn't end up a scapegoat. i would also advise a new set of judges and rules, simply for the fact that they are apparently incompetent and the rules not up to par. i say we run it so that the voxel must be submitted on christmas eve, and also that the results of this competition are nullified so that the prizes will remain the same as this one, they will just sort of roll over to this one. i don't necessarily support a new competition, but if that's what it takes to for me to be considered "one the best" then so be it, because apparently one competition isn't enough for the old standards of change. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
Wow, did anyone besides me do a TS voxel??
I was going for the "originality" mostly, I knew everyone would be making tanks, mechs, and war vehicles, I thought I'd do something a little oddball
and then animated the cement mixer mostly for the "technical competence". (Which wasn't mentioned at all, I'm surprised)
but hey I made the top ten (for the first time through, anyways..)
We've GOT to have a voxel competition vxl download pack, with screens of each. Mostly because I want to see what I was competing against, also because these are like thebest of the best (well, for the most part...), and they deserve the recognition of being entered in a competition. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
I was going for the "originality" mostly, I knew everyone would be making tanks, mechs, and war vehicles, I thought I'd do something a little oddball and then animated the cement mixer mostly for the "technical competence". (Which wasn't mentioned at all, I'm surprised)
Wow, an animated cement mixer? Very creative.
I woulda given that a good score, not quite the highest, but.. you know.. top 8 or something.
Better than a bloody F14 that was huge, badly colored, and resembled a F15 a great deal more, anyways.. _________________ "Banned" RP here QUICK_EDIT
Just wondering, but would you people like a second stage of the FSVC - five judges (the three old plus two other) rejudging the same voxels or give the entrants one more week and let new people enter (with updgraded rules this time).
Me, ramniator, and possibly Gamemate are gonna start one... mostlikly... Hosted by raminators resource site.
Hopefully people enter a vxl and wernt scared off by what happened from this one. _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
(Permissions) - (F.A.Q.) QUICK_EDIT
Me, ramniator, and possibly Gamemate are gonna start one... mostlikly... Hosted by raminators resource site.
Hopefully people enter a vxl and wernt scared off by what happened from this one.
i´m ok with it...
but most important now is that we don´t argue too much about the results but work together on better rules! _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Just wondering, do you think the voxels should be kept anonymous to save any bias?
Ya you know thats a pretty good idea! But how would we do that? in order to get them they have to be pmed, e-mail, or giveing through an IM...
I guess it could be uploaded to a site such as megaupload or what ever it is called the post as guest... but that might be more work. _________________ MadHQ's Graveyard - Click here!
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Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:49 am Post subject:
It could be like how Banshee organises the OMC. He receives the files, removes trace of names, sends them to the judges who then rate the voxels, and the organiser then collects the results and readds the names. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
I'm actually shocked not at the scores but at how much of an immature reaction everyone gave to them. We had people listing the outcomes mentally based upon who entered, and now they are upset just as much over that as over the voxels and their own rankings?
Wow.
Scaling, rating and categorizing art is quite literally the most subjective thing you can do unless you want to debate existentialism. We had three judges who did to the best of there abilities rate these voxels, and surprisingly enough for most of them they did agree and were fairly accurate. To bemoan the tedious nature of the final tally though is so childish. Perfection is unattainable, and any of you who entered from the freshest newb to the leatherfaced veteran should know this.
It's not like people will only download the winner, and the much more important part is we all got fairly good feedback on what needs to be improved with the voxels. None of use 'failed' by creating (Well, save the one disqualification) to enter the compettion, be it a rush job or a painstakingly crafted work. It's there, it's in the community.
We contributed. Some of use got meaningless numbers that were higher than others, but we got a dozen fresh voxels pumped out of what mainly thought to be a dry vein in the community.
The only thing that this contest is dissapointing towards is that no images were shown (ingame, because many differ, such as mine looks far more seemless in vxl viewer than it does ingame as I well know).
So don't go at each other like dogs. Please. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: Oz, but near Melbourne, so its ok
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:40 am Post subject:
Easy, accept what you got. If you did poorly, take it in your stride and work on improving where you can. If you did well, work on improving where you can.
Either way you're allowed to be a little smug about having just released a sweet new voxel to the public domain. Well done to all of you, however as above, I find the biggest disapointment here to be the Australian-style sportsmanship...
As for the idea of anyominising entries, I like it. However I think I could have guessed Mad, Mig, rami and Stingerrs, had seen Rawlo's, and early pics of IHH and Tony's _________________
MSN Status: (if says mobile, talk anyway) QUICK_EDIT
I guess I'll have to register to defend our cases.
In my opinion, as a judge, all voxels in the top 5 are just great voxels. Yes i gave stingerr a lower score than IHH, but its still a great voxel. In some way, the scoring system we used just wasnt satisfying. If I look at it, my top 3 would have probably been Mad, MIG and Stinger, yet IHH and Tony got more scores. This is because not everything was fair to be compared. Its just hard judging this people, and sometimes i gave something a 19/20 while the other time it would be an 20/20, while they might have been equal to some point. In my opinion, everything i have an 8/10 or higher is just a top quality voxel, and should all be seen as great achievements. Please just accept the scores as they are. My nr 1 was and stays Mad, and since only the nr 1 gets a price I really see no reason to rejudge this. We will however review the complaints in order to make sure the scoring system works better for the next competition, should there be one.
Also, I refuse to let Tony withdraw, as he only posted a picture of his voxel which is completely legal. The only voxel we baned was from universal because it had a download link. There is a huge difference between showing what you work on and making it public. QUICK_EDIT
That is exactly what i said to rami on MSN. As for ihateharriers entry... i really don't care anymore. All i can say is thanks for Rattus Kids support, its nice to know that someone feels the same as us...
As for the rules, they are exactly the same as what was used with the Vxl competitions at Revora... you know... the ones that ARG created. So what the heck is the problem people, its hard enough to judge all these entrances, but also to have people moan and complain at our final judgements makes the whole concept of us being judges pointless...
To be honest i would never (and never did) give a vxl full marks like Gosho did, since its impossible for something to be perfect. But in the end that's Goshos choice, and i respect that... but it seems that no matter what order we would of put everyone it still would of not been good enough _________________ QUICK_EDIT
No flaw thats impossible. To one person there may not be a flaw but to another person there is a "flaw". _________________ "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." QUICK_EDIT
Also, I refuse to let Tony withdraw, as he only posted a picture of his voxel which is completely legal. The only voxel we baned was from universal because it had a download link. There is a huge difference between showing what you work on and making it public.
just one more question to tony
is the voxel you submitted part of what is up for download here
(i couldn´t test the mod as the launcher simply did not work!)
and i say no rejudging anymore!
let this be final
next comp will be hosted by my site...
with new/updated rules, 3 judges and 1 referee, so the rules will be exactly followed _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
Im planning on entering that Rami and by abiding to the rules. When do you think the competition will start ? _________________ "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." QUICK_EDIT
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I so wish you could remake it.
(if says mobile, talk anyway)
Im speechless.....
