Do you believe that there is an entity that fits the description of God?
Yes definitely, and I believe in the Bible too and what it says (Christianity and or derivatives).
25%
[ 8 ]
Yes definitely, but not necessarily as portrayed by Christianity (another faith)
6%
[ 2 ]
Yes, but I don't believe in any religion (free faith)
3%
[ 1 ]
Hmm, I'm not sure.. There might be a God then there might not be one (agnostic)
18%
[ 6 ]
No, The concept of God is the result of things unexplained by humans (atheist)
46%
[ 15 ]
Total Votes : 32
Author
Message
IVI
Commander
Joined: 25 Jun 2006 Location: Feilubin
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:53 am Post subject:
Survey regarding faith
Subject description: you don't have to post if you don't want to..
hi, I'm doing a survey regarding belief/faith in the metaphysical concept of God. there are similar topics I know but most polls are just a matter of yes or no.
Note that I have no intention of trying to convince people who don't and I don't want anyone posting things that will start a flame war here. Everyone is entitled to his/her own belief and we should respect that . The purpose of this survey is for a subject I've taken in Philosophy, so thank you for participating and thank you in advance for being civil.
P.S.
>Please note that the questions were devised by me as my professor didn't provide us with any. I tried to make the questions as categorical as possible but you might point out (in a polite manner) if they may be too geared toward something and I'll take note of it when I submit this.
>The first question is geared towards Christianity as the sphere of influence I'm in and as I'm sure you are all familiar with is Christianity
>This survey runs for 3 months so that within this online community I might argue that the sample I did was somewhat randomized and with ample timeframe (as I'm sure most users might've gone over the site within such).
again thanks for participating
:EDIT:
hey, one of the options didn't show! oh well... QUICK_EDIT
I see, I appreciate your convictions, I am interested in what other people think regarding this, and I bet my professor thinks so too. hearing what other people think widens one's understanding of other principles and ways of thinking QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject:
I am a very strong atheist, primarily because there is a lot more evidence that backs a creation of the universe via a big bang and more evidence for evolution than religion has for its beliefs (i.e. their respective holy books).
Of course, everybody has the freedom to worship whatever religion they like, but that doesn't stop a lengthy debate over creationism/evolution by me, something I heartily enjoy. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Open minded Christian here (Ie: Why the heck should people die of aids when the sperm cells die anyhow (because our little swimming friends get old)). I also do not support the Catholic church as it's just a bunch of hypocrits, I only follow the bible. Take a look at the dark ages, the church was nothing but an instrument used to control people, it gives the religion a bad name.
Perhaps certain statements in the bible are symbolical, like 7 * 10 ^ whatever years instead of 7 days or something. I don't like entering a debate wether my religion is right or not, because one of the points of Christianity is the faith itself, believing in stuff you can't see, cannot prove and easily contradict. I must admit that I have been raised with this opinion, but I had the freedom to choose and I never chose anything else. Last edited by Titan on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Meh. Religions are for the faithless and weak of spirit. If you gain control of thy spirit and peace with it as well, God himself shall keep you from falling away from yourself. QUICK_EDIT
A few months ago i would of said athiest, but now i would say im agnostic. Just dramatic changes in my life caused this change of opinion. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Open minded Christian here (Ie: Why the heck should people die of aids when the sperm cells die anyhow (because our little swimming friends get old)). I also do not support the Catholic church as it's just a bunch of hypocrits, I only follow the bible. Take a look at the dark ages, the church was nothing but an instrument used to control people, it gives the religion a bad name.
same here... I was terribly disillusioned when I started to learn about the real motives of the crusades, the inquisition, religious hocus-pocus and what not. no offense to anyone, that's just me thinking.
I can't believe that 'followers of Jesus' would do such things IF His teachings was what really drove them, you know.
D wrote:
A few months ago i would of said athiest, but now i would say im agnostic. Just dramatic changes in my life caused this change of opinion.
I can relate
SomeGuy[YR:SF] wrote:
Meh. Religions are for the faithless and weak of spirit. If you gain control of thy spirit and peace with it as well, God himself shall keep you from falling away from yourself.
I've met many people who think the same
@Clazzy: Yeah, I've been reading your posts regarding this evolution/creation thing and I can say that you pose quite a formidable argument, best I've seen yet! (in terms of level-headed rationalism as well as logic) QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, I don't really give a wooden sh!t WHAT you do, unless you try to make me share your beliefs, or hurt me in any way.
:O
Agreed.
BTW I am atheist.
Why? Religion is something people created as a way to feel secure, safe...that they will be helped by some higher level being...I laugh at this, as we all know that it is incorrect. _________________ ... QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:10 am Post subject:
Religion was created to end with the chaos. It's the same reason that the laws exists. Except that they didn't had arguments to explain why certain rules needed to be followed... so God comes in. QUICK_EDIT
reilgion created rules a civistion and pretty much stop barbarins and other undesables into law binding civlains true many things in *the bible* can't be true but many laws and way's one should live are still vaild.
without laws and restirtions much of the world would be like the US , no offenice but it would be corrupt and evil without it ,reilgion back in the old day was there purely to retain peace nothing more.
in all aspects of all reglions there are rules at that time when it was created to keep the pease.
sometimes extreme it justifiles laws and bountries without them half the towns and cities whould of never exitited so count you self lucky there is somthing, weather you beleave or not is up to you.
in summorey im tring to let you have a open mind
after that's why you have one, and explain the purpose at is simpleness on why it is, what it is, how it is, people such as you all understand law in my veiw this is just a old fasioned version as i whould put it. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, I don't really give a wooden sh!t WHAT you do, unless you try to make me share your beliefs, or hurt me in any way.
:O
I don't see anyone forcing/convincing you to believe in anything as of the moment, just sharing points of view here...
@Dubzac and Banshee,
That's very interesting... and makes sense too; human civilizations wouldn't be where they are today without laws and rules to govern societies. Note also that for prehistoric men even up till the 1900's, the fear and reverence for the concept of an unseen omnipotent force has kept many humans obeying laws and rules thus contributing much to progress. However, I have to ask: who do you think (this may predate prehistoric times) might have suddenly came up with the concept of a God/gods to impose laws on his tribesmen? How did he come up with such a radical idea (e.g. he might've seen the sun as a divine being and formulated the concept of God/gods?)? This may involve some anthropology I'm not sure. QUICK_EDIT
Not only am I an atheist, I have a mission in life so to say - destroy all religion, beliefs, superstitions and other shit like that. Blow up churches, mosks etc.
I want people to think freely, without someone telling them: "Do what I say, because GOD says you must obey all power. The Church is Holy!"
(This may sound crazy, but I'll come back later and explain better. Not enough time now, but this will be a debate I'll write a lot) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere south of the north pole
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:57 am Post subject:
I belive that there is a god "behind" Teh Big Bang. He might also be teh universe, I mean, teh first known "gos" is the sun and the planets ("walking stars"). So, teh definission of god is not possible. it's like defining what life is! _________________ This is a signature QUICK_EDIT
Not only am I an atheist, I have a mission in life so to say - destroy all religion, beliefs, superstitions and other shit like that. Blow up churches, mosks etc.
I want people to think freely, without someone telling them: "Do what I say, because GOD says you must obey all power. The Church is Holy!"
(This may sound crazy, but I'll come back later and explain better. Not enough time now, but this will be a debate I'll write a lot)
Now, while I share the same feelings you have towards religion (I utterly despise religions who mangle people's freedom of thought and force them to do things), I don't think that blowing up places of worship is the right thing to do. What you'll end up with is the rancor and fury of the people offended rather than actually elevating their way of thinking. For me, proper EDUCATION is the best way to fight illogical/irrational beliefs. people living in the outskirts of civilization tend to come up with various superstitions but as one's educational attainment goes higher, so is his/her capacity to separate logically deduced conclusions from purely irrational guesswork. QUICK_EDIT
Yes, but so far, for the last 6 centuries (since the Renessans), every attempt to peacefully try and oppose the Church has in one way or another been destroyed and the people mocked and demonised by the Church (and other religions too).
Take Stalin and the Communist Party of Russia (which tried to take the place of the Russian Orthodox church, instead of changing things). That attempt failed.
So I think, the only way there is to be no religion at all is to destroy it all like the plague on society that it is. To me religion is like a tumour, which thinks - it makes people belive that it's actually good and needed, while all it does is control society... QUICK_EDIT
You are citing a specific category of a case study WHICH I will not mention here to avoid offending people.
You are correct Gosho and that's why I hate religion in that sense. But I must say that you are in danger of comitting a 'Hasty Generalization' type of fallacy.
The way I see it, the problem isn't with religion or faith itself but the so-called religious leaders coercing other people to do stuff by using the concept of God/gods to back their religious machinations. Even today you can see them everywhere; claiming that this is God's will and that is God's will when in fact they have no basis for knowing that (IF you take into consideration that God does exist) and for atheists, I'm sure you get red with annoyance (if not anger) with people like that don't you?
But I don't think that it is fair to brand all faiths as like that. It is because of certain beliefs that people united to do great things. It is because of a whollistic idealism that men and women were driven to achieve what we have today.
I agree that it cannot be argued that certain abominable religions and opportunistic people have used religion to fool countless masses. but I want you to understand that we should view this religion thing with neutrality and not with blind fervor nor blind fury.
that's just me talking though... so enough about my opinions as this will be in danger of gearing towards my beliefs already and in danger of unconsciously becoming biased QUICK_EDIT
"The entire belief of a great unseen dude controling your faith is hilarious. It gets even funnier, because this perfect being created imperfect creatures and let's them suffer for his rule. Is that even possible from a perfect creature?"
Quoted from a book I'm writing now.
The moral values of religion can not be doubted - laws against crime etc. are a must. But a law - Obey me and do not say my name unless needed? Or don't eat meat on Friday? Or don't eat pork? Or don't let your wife show her face in public? Or cut parts of the skin from from your penis?
Nah. I'd rather fight for a utopia without a god ruling it. QUICK_EDIT
I'm sorry, but that's a very simplistic point of view, books like the bible clearly state why we are 'suffering', so they have an 'explanation'. I'm almost 100% sure you have not even taken the time reading the Bible, Koran or whatever for that matter, before writing a book and making rather 'false' assumptions.
According to your point of view, life is either unfair and cruel, or full of wealth and happyness, but if you would take a look at it while having a religious book in front of you, everything 'makes sense', apart from the things you are supposed to believe in, where they cannot be seen.
So you are looking at the world from the eyes of an atheist and then judge religions. That doesn't work, what about me saying you're dumb and doomed because you do not believe in god and will burn in hell for eternity in immortal agony Doesn't make sense and isn't fair either.
Science is in fact a religion, a religion without a god. Because it does not feature a god does not mean the ones following it cannot have opinions about religious things, for if you do have an opinion, you're being included in the debate, meaning you believe in something: a universe without a god. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject:
Science is based on logic and experiences, unlike religion... even if religions have a logic behind it, they don't try to do 'experiences' to proove their claims. QUICK_EDIT
Ah, a man who takes things by the word. I like that Just a few notes - believe me, I've read a lot about religion - the Bible, the Kourhan, all sorts of mythologies and a lot of studies in philosophy and theology (I go to a school, in which I learn 6 different languages, 3 of them dead.)
So, let me answer you one by one:
Quote:
I'm sorry, but that's a very simplistic point of view, books like the bible clearly state why we are 'suffering', so they have an 'explanation'. I'm almost 100% sure you have not even taken the time reading the Bible, Koran or whatever for that matter, before writing a book and making rather 'false' assumptions.
Why should I believe a book, which has an unknown author (the old Testamony), in which the Hebrew people gathered their myths about the world. I might as well take the ancient Scithian version of how people were created - from the vomit of the drinking gods :p
Now seriously, Humans were NOT created by a god, there was no Snake, apple of sins etc. It's just a clever alegory.
Quote:
According to your point of view, life is either unfair and cruel, or full of wealth and happyness, but if you would take a look at it while having a religious book in front of you, everything 'makes sense', apart from the things you are supposed to believe in, where they cannot be seen.
I'm not supposed to believe in anything.
And no, my point of view is a very twisted one. I am a communist, utopist, anarchist, idealist - call it whatever you want. I believe life is unfair - a small group of people exploits the rest of the world. And I want that to stop and all people to live in happyness. Religeous books give you false hope - "Wen you die, you'll go to a better place. Now go back to work!"
Quote:
So you are looking at the world from the eyes of an atheist and then judge religions. That doesn't work, what about me saying you're dumb and doomed because you do not believe in god and will burn in hell for eternity in immortal agony Doesn't make sense and isn't fair either.
Hmm, I've already been excluded from my church for "hooliganism and swearing of God" :p
And I can judge everything from my eyes. And just for the sake of the argument - for milenias, atheists were looked down as the worst breed of people. Even the so called "witches" were higher than us. :/
Quote:
Science is in fact a religion, a religion without a god. Because it does not feature a god does not mean the ones following it cannot have opinions about religious things, for if you do have an opinion, you're being included in the debate, meaning you believe in something: a universe without a god.
Nope. Give me one fact, that indicates that science is religion. And while you're at it, give me one fact that god exists.
Have a nice day! And I expect a pretty nice debate.
BTW, please don't mind if some of the words are "twisted" or wrong. I have not studied them all in English and take them out from Bulgarian, Latin, Greek or German words. QUICK_EDIT
having another debate can be pretty tiring.... sigh, I've heard it all before, and explaining time and time again why I believe that God exists and my corresponding philosophical/logical derivations (as I'm expecting TitanMarkII's ideas might be similar to my own since we share similar views) is pretty pointless because that's how I live my life and I have no right to impose myself to you (and vice versa), you are a free and thinking man (or woman for any female reading this) raised differently in a different culture with different experiences and for me that's reason enough to understand why we have different views on the metaphysical. And believe me, there's not one semester in the best university in the Philippines that this topic goes by undebated at least once in various classes however unrelated.
'To each his own..' (I forgot who said that) .
If I start posting God-related premises and hypotheses here we'd end up arguing pointlessly with each trying to prove the other wrong. And I promised that this thread's supposed to be kept neutral. let's just leave the status quo as is so that everybody's in their current 'enlightened' state.
but if you still want to debate, well I sure will learn a lot from seeing how people with different views interact! Last edited by IVI on Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
I'm saying that people that follow a certain religion believe it is the right one and true followers will never give up that vision.
I can also tell from personal experiences that for me there is indeed a god, but I won't open up my entire social life to you all, so I'll just leave you without an argument on this one
Wether they were halucinations or not doesn't matter, for me they are important and strengthen my belief, which sometimes gives me hope and all that stuff. Now, looking at things from the eyes of an atheïst now, if all this stuff is fake and I did it for nothing, then where did the hope and support come from? Nowhere? Fine, but I did get hope and strength and the whole riddle again. That's a fact. Now, apart from the well-known bad side of religions, the merciless unity and strict rules and punnishments (read: burning and drowning witches, dismembering gays, stoning womans that comitted adultery etc.), there is this positive side that emerges more and more these days. People focus less on the rules and more on the positive side, which can be seen as the religion either fading away, or the religion turning modern. I'm not preachy, I don't read the bible 5 times a day, I hate going to church and I say get lost to not working in the weekend.
Perhaps the word religion does not cover everything, a better word might have been 'vision on the universe' or something similar. If you have studied the bible, then (new testament, the old one is a bit vague and I doubt certain things in it) you know that it has been written down by the followers of Jesus and that several historical documents confirm this, even the Romans, who literally hated them and sometimes had a biased and deformed view. So it has been written down by multiple people, so what? Well, it is certainly more accurate than something written down by a single person.
Now, the bible has several profecies that came true and we can see them today, things like credit cards and iris scans, the bible described all of that in a rather accurate way.
And of course, we are supposed to believe things we can not actually see, that's one of the main points, you shouldn't be looking for proof all the time. Now, scientists, why does the universe exist? Why is there something at all instead of nothingness? How can something be created out of nothing? How can the universe have been created out of nothingness? I mean before the big bang. An unending cycle of big bangs is rather unbelievable. Where did it start? It must have started somewhere, otherwise science fails. Now, again, explain to me, why is there something at all?
You can't answer that, heh, you can't Our minds are barely capable of explaining this universe and it took us a long time to get to this point . Wether you explain this whole everythingyness as something created by a god or something created by a big bang does not matter, It's just as weird and hard to understand.
By the way, I kinda like these debates It's rather funny. QUICK_EDIT
hmm, no harm in asking a rhetorical question then
You see, I have this intricately crafted designer watch that might probably sell for a fat amount. I have to say that it's really beautiful with all the gold plates fitting perfectly and its system is flawless. It functions perfectly and all parts are synchronized so precisely. but when someone wants to buy the watch they often ask where I got it from, I reply "NOBODY made this watch, it just suddenly appeared here clasped to my wrist" then the buyer retorts "Oh come on, don't tell me NOBODY made this, it must've come from somewhere". I reply "NOBODY made this, it just happened here on my wrist one day "
If I were to sell you the watch and insist that the damn thing just ::POOFED:: on my hand, would you believe my story?
think about it.... and what I just said might mean. Last edited by IVI on Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
well I sure will learn a lot from seeing how people with different views interact!
People with different views interacting...you've already seen it many times, it's called war.
TitanMarkII wrote:
Wether you explain this whole everythingyness as something created by a god or something created by a big bang does not matter
If you're going to take it in that direction, then you can just as easily ask, what created the god that created all of this? What created the 'thing' that created the god that created all......and it just keeps going on like that.
There is no way to find out, so there's no point in talking about it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject:
Meh, agnostic, approaching atheist...
I cannot say full athiest, death of a grandparent made me challenge that idea. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Now, scientists, why does the universe exist? Why is there something at all instead of nothingness? How can something be created out of nothing? How can the universe have been created out of nothingness? I mean before the big bang. An unending cycle of big bangs is rather unbelievable. Where did it start? It must have started somewhere, otherwise science fails. Now, again, explain to me, why is there something at all?
Responses to all of your questions in order:
1. Why does a God exist (to you, that is)?
2/3. See below.
4. Well, this may be unbelievable to you, just like the concept of an omnipotent God is unbelievable to me. You have to remember a few key points: firstly, physics breaks down altogether at the point of the big bang, purely because the big bang is effectively the inverse of a black hole (and inside a black hole physics as we know it does not work, even the formation of a black hole is still slightly odd to us). Secondly, when physics breaks down, as does our understanding. The universe is governed by physics and if we can't explain it, we don't really know much about it. There have been many theories (continuous creation/destruction, an antiuniverse, etc.) but there's no way we can actually prove what was before the big bang, just like how we can't practically have a one-dimensional universe, since our physics relies on four (or, if you're a person who believes in supersymmetry, about 12).
Personally, I like the concept of a universe that is constantly being created and destroyed, since that would happily explain parallel universes and makes me feel at ease that everything will be reset in the end. Of course, that will make people feel uneasy because it then shows that the universe is predetermined and there is no chance whatsoever.
5. Well, why not? A scientist doesn't have those answers, we can't give a good, proper reason for the creation of the universe without some sort of experimental evidence to back it. If you want to know this, ask a philosopher. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
The concept of God IS actually the result of things unexplained by humans. It's just being kept a secret or basically controlled to allow Christianity and other religions to still thrive. But in the end, what's the point anyways? <_<
I mean, it's basically trying to stop science from evolving! What's the point again? Profit? Excuse me for being an ass, but discoveries make more profits than lies, and THAT alone is the truth.
It's like when they discovered the Earth was round. Not only should you know how often industries keep science discoveries secrets and bury them by paying the researchers who discovered it so they remove every trace of their work, but you also should know this is the reason we still depend on oil. Don't you get it? We could have fully functional stuff with ZERO oil on the damn planet. It's only that the industries and government keep these in secret. But in the end, that's the only way to remove countries who are all poor. By going a step further. Going generation-jumping on technology! Cheaper and ecological stuff is always better for us, but the people in charge think differently; they THRIVE on money, and they hunger for even more.
I think it's sick to do sensibilasation on the governments to incite them to stop technology from evolving. Racism, no free will or decision to take (basically, no real freedom), stopping scientific evolution, hard sex (I'm talking about the really sick things, not normal sex), purity by cleansing the others who don't agree with your own goals. This is the world we live in RIGHT NOW. I don't know what it sounds like to you, but I'd say it pretty much sounds alot to me like NAZISM.
True, this is just Nazism in it's purest form, yet we all declare that is dead and it was decades ago. You're wrong. DEEP wrong. People should be allowed to believe what they want to, no need to sensiblize them or force them into "god's will", because simply something that is not a solid form and has no brain (or at least, not one that allows for freedom of thought) has no will. God has no brain, isn't solid. Therefore, does he really exist? You can believe what you want to, alright. But don't you tell me that God lets us be free and wants us to really obey him. That's just stupid, because something that is free does not obey anyone else's will, it will agree on it and cooperate, plus the fact that if God controlled us, it wouldn't be moral and telling us to obey him goes against free will of the mind. Therefore, I do not need a god to live. It's also the fact that I make up with it. When someone's dead, they're dead. They're gone. It can hurt, but you'll get over it, life goes on. I'm not that patethic, scared (of being evil, of getting a bad life, of getting punished, etc.), or anything else to need to believe in religion or God. And if I'm about to die, I'm not gonna pray to god, I'm going to stay calm and carefully dodge/cheat my death (Cheating death is awesome, I already did it once, no lies there )
I agree with the concept of Jesus. But if that man really existed, he did not want to use God, but he had to use it to unite people. He might've hated it, but he would've done anything to help people realize what they were. Who knows, Jesus might've been just a lie, like a little novel wrote way back in time. (You never know, the apostles who wrote the bible's texs could've been in real life just great friends.) When I think about people telling me to believe before it's too late. And let's face it, the apocalypse/rapture ain't happening. And seriously, 3 knights coming from hell? We got nukes, tanks, airplanes, etc. We'd just beat them till their atoms divide 80 billion times. But wait, this isn't an RTS, just a silly belief (At least, the way I see it... XD).
Anyways, here's something that might make you change your opinion on telling me I'm wrong at 100%:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme-complex
Hey, maybe the people who are atheist had a problem with the development of this gene and it has had some sort of malformation, making us not believe in god? (I like this theory to be honest, it could unlock alot of amazing stuff we don't know about our own selves)
Don't even think of making me turn over to Christianism, that ain't never happening. I'm immune to religious beliefs and brainwashing. And oddly enough, I still manage to be happy without believing in god or praying or anything religious, unlike many others. Even though I have documents that prove I was BAPTISED. I wanted to believe Religion when I was little, but I got over it eventually. (I'm not that much anymore into fantasy stories) I think it all just helps prove that memethic theory. QUICK_EDIT
I am a Christian because I was raised as one and I did not abandon it because of personal experiences. I'm not shoving it up anybody's throath, Jezus! (lame pun)
And Alex, half of your story isn't even about religion the bible does not at all say the earth is flat, I have no idea where they came up with the earth being the center of the universe. Religion does not at all stop science. If there happen to be giant skeletons of huge animals like dinosaurs, then they were there. We are already capable of having out cars drive on hydrogen instead of petrol, this has nothing to do with religion. Did the president of America stop nukes from being created and dropped on Japan? Nope, he did not. And America is filled with (self proclaimed) Christians that go hide in a corner and cower when they see a breast on tv that happened to flap through the clothing of some pop star. However, America has stealth fighters, nucleair reactors, laser rifles/satelites and contains enough explosives to turn the earth into a glowing orb of radiation, devoid of any kind of intelligent life.
By the way, the bible clearly states that all humans have a choice and that you are free to follow your heart. Following god just happens to grant you eternal happyness in heaven and all that stuff.
Alright people, I'm outta here before things get rough QUICK_EDIT
"The entire belief of a great unseen dude controling your faith is hilarious. It gets even funnier, because this perfect being created imperfect creatures and let's them suffer for his rule. Is that even possible from a perfect creature?"
Quoted from a book I'm writing now.
The moral values of religion can not be doubted - laws against crime etc. are a must. But a law - Obey me and do not say my name unless needed? Or don't eat meat on Friday? Or don't eat pork? Or don't let your wife show her face in public? Or cut parts of the skin from from your penis?
Nah. I'd rather fight for a utopia without a god ruling it.
LOL ironically, Meat day is friday for me. XD
The thing is, the fact that in some religions women are supposed to completely hide their bodies, it has nothing to with the religion, it's to control sexuality, and the other thing about cutting the skin off your penis is in my opinion;
1. Stops men from having orgasms or stops them from having erections.
2. Allows for a stronger pleasure
3. It's painful when you have sex; and also allows to control religion
That's my personal theories, I don't know what else.
As for not doing something on a specific day, it's just stupid. No point to it than forcing you to lose your time. (or to take a day off) QUICK_EDIT
Lol, in biology class I learned that removing the skin does not severely affect it Quit talking out of yer arse, laddy That'd mean the entire Muslim society would have problems getting pregnant... Have you seen how big those families are?!? Hell, they don't have trouble at all...
And like I said, in this modern society it's impossible to rest at one specific day. By the way, my entire week is meat-day, to hell with vegetarians
You should stop seeing religion as a tool, perhaps the muslim extremists and the Amish people are being used by their religion, I certainly am not.
Err... Yeah, now I'm really out of here. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:50 am Post subject:
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you also should know this is the reason we still depend on oil. Don't you get it? We could have fully functional stuff with ZERO oil on the damn planet.
We depend on oil for making plastics. We can make them artificially, but it is an inefficient process. You're over-exaggerating the authoritarian society bit, though. Governments, unsurprisingly to real people, aren't out to get normal people. Without an actual method to control people a la 1984's thought police/telescreens/memory holes, the government MUST rely on its people to help run the country and keep it stable. Let's save the "oh no, my government is in on some conspiracy!!!111" to another topic?
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I agree with the concept of Jesus. But if that man really existed, he did not want to use God, but he had to use it to unite people. He might've hated it, but he would've done anything to help people realize what they were. Who knows, Jesus might've been just a lie, like a little novel wrote way back in time.
Jesus existed, he has been referenced in ancient texts that weren't the Bible. I think he was a very charismatic and influential man, as well as a great leader and kind soul, but not the Messiah.
Anyway Alex, something tells me that you're fairly weak-minded to accept all kinds of random gibberish like that as pure fact. I know that most religions aren't perfect, but they're not as evil as you make out. A lot genuinely believe in a God and want to pursue and help others pursue what they believe to be a life of peace and eternal happiness in Heaven. Fair enough, that's up to them. You do get the odd bad apple and the Catholic Church was indeed repressive in the past regarding advances in science (but do remember that society in general has always been resistant to scientific change) but they're not all evil. _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:54 am Post subject:
Clazzy wrote:
Jesus existed, he has been referenced in ancient texts that weren't the Bible. I think he was a very charismatic and influential man, as well as a great leader and kind soul, but not the Messiah.
True. And I add more: the only messiah is Kane. Peace through power! One vision, one purpose! Kane lives in death!
To all who voted, thanks!! the poll is beginning to exhibit some statistical inclinations and I might project a hypothetical result in my paper concerning the beliefs of middle class to higher middle class categories (are there elite class A people here? come on don't be shy ) believe it or not, those who belong to the class E and D believe in some concept that fits the description of an omnipotent being much much more than those who are doing better in life.... just something to think about
TitanMarkII wrote:
the bible does not at all say the earth is flat,
actually it says that the earth is a sphere and that it, along with other heavenly bodies revolve around the sun... it says so in the book of Job when he explains what he believe is God's will to his friends.. just sharing a fact
Alex06 wrote:
1. Stops men from having orgasms or stops them from having erections.
2. Allows for a stronger pleasure
3. It's painful when you have sex; and also allows to control religion
what the hell are you talking about? I don't have any problems when I DO it, this is very unnecessary but I just have to point it out. I strongly advise that you make sure of what you write. QUICK_EDIT
I have been raised as a Christian (Lutheran, to be exact), and I must say, religion does bring a safe feeling. A child is told about what God is, and why we have Christmas and so on, what a tooth fairy does for your teeths when you leave them under your pillow, to keep their minds away from the truth, the truth, how horrible the outside world can be. Wars with foolish reasons in the backround, thousands of killing diseases, and some insane nation leaders. When we grow up, we come to learn about the horrors of history, the present world, but eventualy we learn how to live with it. Oh, and what about death? some believers may feel a lot more safe, as they may believe getting into heaven, and that the life just doesn't end in a particurlar point.
On the other hand, throughout history, religion has been used as a reason for many wars. Not just Christianity, but all other religions! Islam, some ancient Egyptian religions, etc. And what have they brought? peace like written in the holy books? *rolls eyes* I just watched the movie Da Vinci Code, and I must say, (like IVI wrote) in history, Catholic church has always used the name of Jesus in their crusades, and the indulgences...they just made the whole purgatory up! I'm not against them or anything, I just feel it wrong...religions was not created for power, glory, or possession.
ATM of my life I'm seeking for the right path...and when I find one, I hope it will be the right one...sounds poetic, huh? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject:
Quote:
To all who voted, thanks!! the poll is beginning to exhibit some statistical inclinations and I might project a hypothetical result in my paper concerning the beliefs of middle class to higher middle class categories (are there elite class A people here? come on don't be shy Very Happy ) believe it or not, those who belong to the class E and D believe in some concept that fits the description of an omnipotent being much much more than those who are doing better in life.... just something to think about
So the richer, more educated people are more likely to be atheists? If that's what you're trying to show, that doesn't really say much positive about religion in general. Of course, I wouldn't say that you've shown that from this poll. Doing a poll like this on this forum is probably quite biased because we're mostly technologically minded and are more likely to be atheists than anything else.
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actually it says that the earth is a sphere and that it, along with other heavenly bodies revolve around the sun... it says so in the book of Job when he explains what he believe is God's will to his friends.. just sharing a fact
Well, I had a look and Christians tend to refer to Job 26:7 as proof that the Earth is spherical in the Bible. I can't see how it or the surrounding verses explain it, I would actually think that 26:9 would be showing the Earth is flat.
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1 But Job answered and said,
2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?
4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
14 Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?
If the Bible mentioned that the Earth went around the sun, then why did (during the Dark Ages) virtually everybody except most Eastern countries believe that the Earth was flat?
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I have been raised as a Christian (Lutheran, to be exact), and I must say, religion does bring a safe feeling. A child is told about what God is, and why we have Christmas and so on, what a tooth fairy does for your teeths when you leave them under your pillow, to keep their minds away from the truth, the truth, how horrible the outside world can be. Wars with foolish reasons in the backround, thousands of killing diseases, and some insane nation leaders. When we grow up, we come to learn about the horrors of history, the present world, but eventualy we learn how to live with it. Oh, and what about death? some believers may feel a lot more safe, as they may believe getting into heaven, and that the life just doesn't end in a particurlar point.
Ignorance may be bliss, but you can't hide from the truth forever. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria, Yellow Zone
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:
I belive that there is a superior mind that controls us. And just a question: Do you know how the cells have been created? All the mollecular structures that work more or less like a modern day factory? Ever wonderd how DNA was created? And jus another puzzle thee are no preoteins without DNA and no Dna without proteins _________________ The only true freedom is the one you have won. QUICK_EDIT
Аре, ойде конйо в ряката :p Иванчо, що се обаждаш след 5 бири? :p
Don't mind Nighpish. He was drunk when he wrote that :p
@ Alex - no, cutting the skin on your penis will not hurt you, you'll sperm simply won't gather in it and you'll be a bit cleaner. Yet I will never let someone deface my pride :p QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria, Yellow Zone
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:
Gosho wrote:
Аре, ойде конйо в ряката :p Иванчо, що се обаждаш след 5 бири? :p
Don't mind Nighpish. He was drunk when he wrote that :p
@ Alex - no, cutting the skin on your penis will not hurt you, you'll sperm simply won't gather in it and you'll be a bit cleaner. Yet I will never let someone deface my pride :p
I wasn't drunk But drinking indeed is my religion _________________ The only true freedom is the one you have won. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I belive that there is a superior mind that controls us. And just a question: Do you know how the cells have been created? All the mollecular structures that work more or less like a modern day factory? Ever wonderd how DNA was created? And jus another puzzle thee are no preoteins without DNA and no Dna without proteins
Amino acids and proteins can be made under the natural conditions of the Earth hundreds of millions of years ago, experiments have been done to show this. You have to remember that life evolved very slowly over a very long time. Evolution is just a set of small adaptations that give certain life forms superiority over others (e.g. giraffe necks slowly got longer so they could eat the leaves higher up acacia trees). The eyeball would have started with a simple light-sensitive chemical and would have changed to something more complicated. Not being a biologist I can't really give you that much detailed information, but regardless it is perfectly possible and highly plausible, hence why so many people believe it. _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
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Survey regarding faith
. The purpose of this survey is for a subject I've taken in Philosophy, so thank you for participating and thank you in advance for being civil.
Doesn't make sense and isn't fair either.
. Wether you explain this whole everythingyness as something created by a god or something created by a big bang does not matter, It's just as weird and hard to understand.
)
' way, that's plain stupid. 
