Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject:
Odd Barrel Glitch
I've never had this before...
As my cruiser turns the barrel raises and then lowers again.
Not sure if it's clear in the screenshot, but in one facing the barrel is below the turret and in the other it is above the turret.
I've done nothing with this unit that I haven't with any others, yet this is the only one affected.
Process:
Modelled in Max
Export to 3ds
Run through 3ds2vxl
Use HVA Builder (newest version) to set HVA position to 0,0,0
Use HVA Builder to align the turret/barrel vertically
I've done this with all turreted units and only the cruiser is displaying this behaviour.
Art.ini is like so:
;Allies, Cruiser, Iowa Class
[IOWA]
Voxel=yes
Cameo=CAICON
AltCameo=CAICON
Remapable=yes
TurretOffset=320 ;43
PrimaryFireFLH=40,0,60
I made a completely new blank hva and it's made no difference.
It also appears to be happening with my Gunboat, I just hadn't noticed because of the tiny barrel.
I tried it without the TurretOffset and it looked as though it had fixed it, except there's one point where the barrels flick down and back up again. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
why are you using HVA builder? OMG don't tell me i screwed up turrets in 3ds2vxl again. you're supposed to tell me these things. i don't have the game to test these things. remember? QUICK_EDIT
Looks like a horizontal placement issue that only became an 'on-top/under' issue with the game's draw order for turrets with barrels.
The fireangle though can cause issues especiallyt since there is no clipping. Underground units are notorious for turret/barrel issues. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I don't see you didn't just combine the two, seeing as barrel logic in RA2 appears to have been.. nixed..
Because then my turret rotates around the point where the barrel joins the turret and looks stupid
3ds2vxl aligns stuff in the hva which I've been told a few times isn't the proper way to do it, so I've been using hva builder to align the voxel offsets. And 3ds2vxl doesn't align turrets far enough up, they're still inside the body.
Also, 3ds2vxl's art.ini turret offset is a long way off. It told me my cruiser should be 43 when in reality it's 320. This might be related to the fact that it offsets turrets in the HVA aswell, you want the turret in the centre of the HVA in all axis. If it's off to the side or a bit forward then the turret won't turn around the right point.
I think there's something weird going on with voxel graphics tools. If I convert something with 3ds2xvl the hva isn't far enough up. If I align something in HVA builder it's fine in game but if I open voxel viewer it's too low down and double barrel units have the barrel off to one side. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
i can't believe i wasn't told about this sooner. whatever you are all doing to your turrets manually, my program can do much better. i'm going to go work on this. QUICK_EDIT
Because then my turret rotates around the point where the barrel joins the turret and looks stupid
This is your fault Daz, you are not setting the pivot in Max properly.
Quote:
3ds2vxl aligns stuff in the hva which I've been told a few times isn't the proper way to do it,
Wrong, 3ds2vxl aligns your turrets dead center of the pivot.
Quote:
And 3ds2vxl doesn't align turrets far enough up, they're still inside the body.
Your fault again, your pivot in Max is not correctly placed.
Quote:
This might be related to the fact that it offsets turrets in the HVA aswell, you want the turret in the centre of the HVA in all axis. If it's off to the side or a bit forward then the turret won't turn around the right point.
Wrong, 3ds2vxl does not "align" the turret at all. The position of the turret depends 100% on where the object's pivot is.
Quote:
If I convert something with 3ds2xvl the hva isn't far enough up.
So far, almost every alignment problem you've faced can be attributed to the fact your pivot is in the wrong place.
I suggest you search for information on moving the pivot in Max. Daz, PM me the max model and I'll check out how you set it up. _________________ Last edited by IcySon55 on Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:32 am; edited 4 times in total QUICK_EDIT
btw in the last release i made it so you should be able to move your pivots independantly now with no problems. before that, you had to move the whole mesh and then move all the vertices the opposite way.
anyway let me know how things go if this is just a case of you not being aware of where your pivots are. QUICK_EDIT
i didn't want to encourage people actually moving the pivots directly because there are still bugs even in 3dsmax when you mess around with pivots too much.
are you sure the turret offsets are wrong? i was told they use the same units as the voxel min and max bounds. in other words if you change the bounds and then you change the turret offset by an equal but opposite amount then they cancel each other out and you won't notice anything different. the rotation might be screwed but without turret rotation the voxel will look the same as before. is that correct guys? also the hva positions use the same units except multiplied by 12 or something like that. is that right? QUICK_EDIT
I reconverted the cruiser with the right pivots and then didn't change anything in any other editor, the value generated was still around 50 and the working value is around 300. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
wow this damn problem never ends. well it seems the 12 has nothing to do with this. ok when you put the turret offset value that you like instead of the one that 3ds2vxl recommends then does everything work correctly. does the turret rotate correctly at least?
btw what version of 3ds2vxl are you using? QUICK_EDIT
ok i noticed a few unrelated errors with your model.
you are not using the symmetry modifier and the front of your hull and your turrets are not the same on both sides. actually your modelling seems symmetrical but you have polygons that 3dsmax is tesselating differently on each side.
you don't seem to have moved any pivots except for the barrel mesh and you have put it in a bizarre place. you've put it under the middle of the barrels. it should be where you want the barrels to rotate up and down from.
there is a 3ds2vxl bug i've just noticed thanks to your model. i don't yet know what is causing it. there seems to be one voxel dot cube at the first possible voxel location. it's at the corner of the extremities of the vxl. it's all the way on the right side at the back bottom of the vxl. i've never seen this bug before but i had seen something similar which i thought i fixed recently. anyway has anyone else seen this strange 1 voxel cube or dot bug on their voxels? i will be getting to work on it next.
my program seems to be putting the turret and barrel so that the turret is located so that it's rotation point is going through the up axis line in hva builder. that is what it is supposed to do. right?
i have a feeling that actually the turret offset value that my program is putting into the ini is supposed to be multiplied by 12 exactly. can someone confirm this with an extreme unmistakeable example. QUICK_EDIT
The barrel pivot was set inside the end of the middle barrel (ie, where they would rotate from).
And I moved the turret pivot down to its base, as it was in the middle of the mesh before.
Yeh I saw that one random dot, this is the first time i've ever encountered it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
the barrel pivot is most certainly not where you say it is.
i think moving the turret pivot up or down is totally irrelevant since the turret only yaws and does not pitch or roll.
about the dot. yeah i still don't know what is causing it but i've narrowed it down a little bit. i also see that one random dot in the corner of a picture when i run my other algorithm which just displays the model in a flat axis aligned view. from there i also noticed that the front facing radar dish's stand does not appear and when i rename those dish stands then they both appear and that random dot does not appear. it's a really bizarre bug. i'm going to go work on it some more. QUICK_EDIT
ViPr please fix these problems because I really dont like bugs in software that will prevent me from converting my models properly _________________ "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." QUICK_EDIT
btw i just noticed instances and references don't work in 3ds2vxl. i thought maybe they would be related to Daz's bug but it seems they're not unfortunately so now i got yet another bug to fix. damn i hate the 3ds format. QUICK_EDIT
I dont think anyone here uses instances/references but i may be wrong. _________________ "Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." QUICK_EDIT
i think instances and references are very useful, so this is a big problem. however, hopefully there's a workaround for the artists. i think maybe they can use references and instances in their models but right before exporting if they highlight the entire model and click on convert to mesh or poly then hopefully the problem will be avoided. they will just have to remember not to save when they close the max file. this should not be too much of a pain. it might be what has to be done because i don't think i can fix this bug.
btw i was able to bypass Daz's dot problem by doing this. QUICK_EDIT
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Odd Barrel Glitch
