Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:11 am Post subject:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere south of the north pole
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:56 am Post subject:
Isn't there a way to convert vxl to 3ds? (does the 3ds2vxl to both ways?) If not, If i remember correctly, Banshee was woring on something like that? _________________ This is a signature QUICK_EDIT
wow, dude this is ztyping insane. I love it. so what exacly will the terrain be ingame. Will we be able to move the camra around like this or will it be a fixed isometric one. Also are you using realtime voxels or 3d models? QUICK_EDIT
fantastic !! although, the way I see it, all the SHP buildings and SHP graphics we've done through the times will be useless and unuseable in this new 3d engine for TS . but that doesn't affect my hopes that this new engine will be finished and be applied effectively.
perhaps we can convert the 2d SHPs into sprites? kinda what half life does with flame effects?? or if this ever gets implemented we'd have to create everything in 3d (IOW, modernize)? _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
fantastic !! although, the way I see it, all the SHP buildings and SHP graphics we've done through the times will be useless and unuseable in this new 3d engine for TS . but that doesn't affect my hopes that this new engine will be finished and be applied effectively.
perhaps we can convert the 2d SHPs into sprites? kinda what half life does with flame effects?? or if this ever gets implemented we'd have to create everything in 3d (IOW, modernize)?
yes, we do have to convert everything to 3d. gangster and holy master already have joined _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
well if you followed my advice all the SHPs and VXLs that you guys made will have been converted from 3d models so you should already have nice source artwork to use for a 3d engine.
i would like to also add that even though judeau has decided not to make this a next-gen 3d engine. this does not mean that you have to make your 3d artwork old-gen. there is converter software to generate old-gen art assets from next-gen art-assets. that way you will also have nice ready-made source art assets to use for the next engine after this current Judeau engine. that engine is already being developed by someone else since Judeau doesn't want to develop it yet. QUICK_EDIT
Bottom bar- I think stuff like positions of GUI should be customizable.
Frustum culling? How do you do this? Do you split the terrain into sections?
Cull against frustum (6 planes) or against frustum sphere, cone? Are culled things defined by boxes, spheres?
I can't test it yet, I'll give you my FPS later.
I recommend spheres for culling. Much faster for me, altough not so much stuff culled.
Also, if you're gonna have RTS camera, culling with just 3 planes could be effective (didn't try it)-upper,left,right- left and right meet just a bit behind you, upper one meets ground. _________________ Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell... QUICK_EDIT
why is the colormap flat grey? and why is my FPS better than everyone's by far even though i have like the oldest equipment? and why did you give out your source code for this? QUICK_EDIT
Bottom bar- I think stuff like positions of GUI should be customizable.
Frustum culling? How do you do this? Do you split the terrain into sections?
Cull against frustum (6 planes) or against frustum sphere, cone? Are culled things defined by boxes, spheres?
I can't test it yet, I'll give you my FPS later.
I recommend spheres for culling. Much faster for me, altough not so much stuff culled.
Also, if you're gonna have RTS camera, culling with just 3 planes could be effective (didn't try it)-upper,left,right- left and right meet just a bit behind you, upper one meets ground.
culling spheres against the six planes, terrain is subdivided into 32x32 pieces
ViPr wrote:
why is the colormap flat grey? and why is my FPS better than everyone's by far even though i have like the oldest equipment? and why did you give out your source code for this?
because the colormap is a placeholder , if you looked at the sky or w/e , or were close to an edge, your FPS would speed u significantly due to the culling, and i post the source because it IS TS : OPEN _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject:
Banshee wrote:
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.
err, wasnt this software rendered BTW,
if my 8800 GTX would increase performance, i wouldve gotten more than 60FPS, which seems more like it fits with my P4 3.0Ghz.
if i get mah new system in a few weeks (hopefully earlier)
ill test it on an E6420 maybe at stock first, but probably only at about 3.5ghz (my goal). _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Amd64 X2 3800+, 2gb RAM and GeForce 7800 GTX gets an avarage of 55 fps. I'm sure that frame rate from 8800 graphics card should be excelent.
err, wasnt this software rendered BTW,
if my 8800 GTX would increase performance, i wouldve gotten more than 60FPS, which seems more like it fits with my P4 3.0Ghz.
if i get mah new system in a few weeks (hopefully earlier)
ill test it on an E6420 maybe at stock first, but probably only at about 3.5ghz (my goal).
3d rendered, banshee's graphics card is bound to his refresh rate, so he doesn't go faster than what's needed. _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
driver config util ? _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
Catalyst/ForceWare. Sometimes even "application controlled" forces OpenGL vsync, so set it to "always off". Also, you can find many other settings there to improve your general 3D performance. If ForceWare/Catalyst is not enough, download Omega on top of it (no guarantees, though, Omega sometimes messes up and you need to reinstall drivers then), and/or ATI Tray Tools (ATI only of course).
I have AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice, 2.0 Ghz), 512 MB DRR I and Radeon X1600 Pro with 512 MB GDDR II. Vsync disabled.
06/04/07, 18:41:50 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.318
06/04/07, 18:42:36 : done 12466 frames , seconds taken : 46.005, average / second : 270.971
BTW, Judeau, your frustum culling code is copypasted from the same source as mine. If you find any way to get bounding sphere (or just center) or cone of the frustum, tell me, I'm sure this code can be replaced by something much more effective. _________________ Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell... QUICK_EDIT
Catalyst/ForceWare. Sometimes even "application controlled" forces OpenGL vsync, so set it to "always off". Also, you can find many other settings there to improve your general 3D performance. If ForceWare/Catalyst is not enough, download Omega on top of it (no guarantees, though, Omega sometimes messes up and you need to reinstall drivers then), and/or ATI Tray Tools (ATI only of course).
I have AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (Venice, 2.0 Ghz), 512 MB DRR I and Radeon X1600 Pro with 512 MB GDDR II. Vsync disabled.
06/04/07, 18:41:50 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.318
06/04/07, 18:42:36 : done 12466 frames , seconds taken : 46.005, average / second : 270.971
BTW, Judeau, your frustum culling code is copypasted from the same source as mine. If you find any way to get bounding sphere (or just center) or cone of the frustum, tell me, I'm sure this code can be replaced by something much more effective.
care to explain yourself ?
bounding sphere of a frustum ?, cone of the frustum ?
aren't those LESS effective ? _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
It's faster to compare to a sphere than to 6 planes. I've also read some about cone, altough I'm not sure. Sphere doesn't miss so many objects the frustum culls, and can be more effective especially if you have huge maps with tons of objects. Another possibility is to sphere-check, and ones in sphere frustum-check (sometimes can get further speedup).
Also, if you use sphere, you should not need to extract all those planes every frame/camera posrotsize change. _________________ Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell... QUICK_EDIT
It's faster to compare to a sphere than to 6 planes. I've also read some about cone, altough I'm not sure. Sphere doesn't miss so many objects the frustum culls, and can be more effective especially if you have huge maps with tons of objects. Another possibility is to sphere-check, and ones in sphere frustum-check (sometimes can get further speedup).
Also, if you use sphere, you should not need to extract all those planes every frame/camera posrotsize change.
but wouldn't you get all kinds of stuff behind you ?
if this was pure RTS view, i suppose sphere would be faster, but as i said, i intend to make units controllable by players, and extracting all the planes is a pretty cheap operation ( if done once per frame ) _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
ah.
average / second : 314.477
(8800GTX, Pentium 4 630 HT, 1GB DDR-400)
that isn't much faster than my old graphic card. i guess we won't notice much difference unless the program is using lots of shader processing. QUICK_EDIT
He can't change it because his machine can't handle it.
On my machine here at work I got 708 fps on the first test, and 739 fps on the second test. Second test had more lights, both moving the camera. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject:
ViPr wrote:
ChielScape wrote:
ah.
average / second : 314.477
(8800GTX, Pentium 4 630 HT, 1GB DDR-400)
that isn't much faster than my old graphic card. i guess we won't notice much difference unless the program is using lots of shader processing.
larger differences will probably bee seen when the cards are stressed more.
larger polycount, larger textures, and as you mentioned heavier use of shaders.
like i said though, a P4 really bottlenecks an 8k8, and the E6420, will probably increase performance significantly. not to mention the motherboard chipset upgrade from intel 915 (ASUS P5GDC Pro) to 965 (ASUS Commando)
Icy, what CPU do you have? dual core by any chance? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Location: In ur BIOS, Steeln ur Megahurtz!
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject:
Kiith-Sa wrote:
Looks great. Is light count on-screen still gonna be limited by 8?
BTW, The LOD switching is way too aggressive imo. Switch a little further.
Runs:
03/27/07, 18:49:45 : done initializing, seconds taken : 0.277
03/27/07, 18:50:50 : done 5458 frames , seconds taken : 64.874, average / second : 84.132
on netcafe Athlon XP 2000+, GF 4 MX 420 (no idea what RAM is)
i guess that would be 256MB, since i have the same thing, except the 420 is a 440. i only use it to watch anime and play music now though _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Most 3d cards have limitation to 8 lights being processed at the same time.
You can overcome this by sw/shader lights.
I think Judeau turns on/off the visible/invisible lights to allow a lot of lights on the map. So I want to know if he is still limited by this. (too lazy to read source now )
BTW, Judeau, are you planning texturing? I think it might be pain in the ass for terrain with LODs. _________________ Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere south of the north pole
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:00 am Post subject:
This is awsome I have tested it, and the controls are good to go! but ragen drawed needs to be longer Very good! _________________ This is a signature QUICK_EDIT
Most 3d cards have limitation to 8 lights being processed at the same time.
You can overcome this by sw/shader lights.
I think Judeau turns on/off the visible/invisible lights to allow a lot of lights on the map. So I want to know if he is still limited by this. (too lazy to read source now )
BTW, Judeau, are you planning texturing? I think it might be pain in the ass for terrain with LODs.
texturing isn't a problem, and, it seems, my wonderful little method of switching lights on and off fails, still limited to 8 lights, so, i'll be using lightmaps for terrain.
i'm also thinking about just using geomorphing on the visible sectors of terrain, perhaps it'll cost a wee little CPU power, but i think it'll pave the way nicely for dynamic terrain. _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere south of the north pole
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:
Sorry to kill the happy feel right now, but I tested with some color on the colormap.png, ang the texture didin't look good at all! It got blury and awfull I nkow this is a beta, but I think you should know Oh, and after some testing, I think this rocks even more! The hightmap works as I want it to! Really good work! _________________ This is a signature QUICK_EDIT
Sorry to kill the happy feel right now, but I tested with some color on the colormap.png, ang the texture didin't look good at all! It got blury and awfull I nkow this is a beta, but I think you should know Oh, and after some testing, I think this rocks even more! The hightmap works as I want it to! Really good work!
the colormap is pretty much a placeholder _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
something is screwy in this version; the terrain seems to get lighter and darker depending on what direction i'm looking. plus the fog lets me see further when i look diagonally at things coz the distance is the perpendicular distance to the camera plane instead of the distance to the camera point. i've seen that mistake in many games. plus i still want to see the entire terrain. can you make the view distance configurable? QUICK_EDIT
something is screwy in this version; the terrain seems to get lighter and darker depending on what direction i'm looking. plus the fog lets me see further when i look diagonally at things coz the distance is the perpendicular distance to the camera plane instead of the distance to the camera point. i've seen that mistake in many games. plus i still want to see the entire terrain. can you make the view distance configurable?
that's how opengl fog works
and, yes, the lighting is screwy, blasted thing refuses to remain static _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
also, banshee has created a TSO subforum, look under pre-alpha _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
Seems to be much better (and it seems to be fast as the LOD version)
On the same netcafe computer:
03/29/07, 18:19:05 : done initializing, seconds taken : 1.014
03/29/07, 18:19:57 : done 4223 frames , seconds taken : 52.593, average / second : 80.296
Are you scrapping terrain LOD forever or only until you get it right?
What about making your own shader fog for GPUs that support it?
It should be faster+look better that way.
Anyway, it's not that important. Most RTS's do exactly the same and can blend fog colour with enviroment nicely. _________________ Time will tell...
Sooner or later...
Time will tell... QUICK_EDIT
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!! although, the way I see it, all the SHP buildings and SHP graphics we've done through the times will be useless and unuseable in this new 3d engine for TS 
. but that doesn't affect my hopes that this new engine will be finished and be applied effectively. 
perhaps we can convert the 2d SHPs into sprites? kinda what half life does with flame effects?? or if this ever gets implemented we'd have to create everything in 3d (IOW, modernize)? 
I have tested it, and the controls are good to go! but ragen drawed needs to be longer 
Very good!
I nkow this is a beta, but I think you should know 
