Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:13 am Post subject:
Global Warming
Subject description: Its been talked about before, but its an issue which isn't going away.
The video has a point. And one, to which I can see the simple logic of.
And I'd like to hope others can see it to. If you just stop and think about it.
I like his comment about;
If we act and we're wrong, we get an economic crisis.
But if we don't act, and we're wrong. We'll get an economic crisis, but we'll also get everything else bad to go with it.
If you want a better worst outcome, then surely its better to act, whether we're right or wrong.
There has been many topics before about Global Warming, and people always get ratty, and defensive, for both sides. As to whether we're causing Global Warming or not.
I'm a scientist, I've gone through the facts, and I try and understand them. And my conclusions are, it is happening.
Heck, I don't think you need to be a scientist to understand it. Our climate, is indeed changes. I will allow the arguement as to whether we are the cause or not, as that can still be debated, but quite frankly, you'd have to be pretty blind not to notice some changes in the climate at the moment.
It could be completely natural, we may have nothing to do with it, but its still happening.
I can't say I know of exactly whats happening in America, but I know Florida and the East coast is getting more storms, and stronger ones than usual. At least, stronger than have been previously recorded.
However, for England, we're getting a heck of a lot of rain, and there is more to come. A lot more. We're June/July for goodness sake, we should be getting non-stop sun.
The mistake a lot of people make, is the assumption that global warming = everything getting hotter.
That isn't true. Our climate is far too complex, and a simple change in temperature, can have completely different effects than more sun.
With more temperature, more water is evapourated into the air, causing more rain. More clouds, which can also mean cooler local temperatures, but warmer nights.
I've heard people exclaiming that, if anything, their local town has gotten colder than before, so Global Warming has to be wrong!
No, they're wrong. If its a change in previous patterns, than it shows something is happening.
There are the extra affects of Global Cooling, as well, something which is helping to mask the effects of Global Warming.
There is a lot to think about. But even so, everyone should look at this situation, and understand it for themselves, because this is an issue which will not go away.
Don't argue about what you think is or isn't happening. Go out there, browse the web, and look for yourself.
Watch the video, and just do what the guy asks. Find out the facts for yourself. You will find extremists for both sides of the arguement. So listen to both sides of the arguement, and decide for yourself. QUICK_EDIT
The debate isn't whether it's happening, the debate is whether humans caused it.
I've read alot of both sides and I'm of the argument that we were told we were going to die of SARS, bird flu and many other things and this is just the latest in the line of things for the media to jump on.
Scares sell.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I'll deal with that when the time comes. I'd imagine it's far too late to change anything anyway. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I know it's happening because of some facts; here in Finland, our last summer was amazing hot and only few rains were here. Then there was a short winter and the last New Year wasn't so cold after all because it's usually minus 30-40*C. I've also seen lots of videos about Global Warming, so I won't bother myself to watch that link...
I've heard that some people (sceptics also) aren't going to do anything to help the situation because all they think is money. Even it's logical to to do something before thinking about "how much money $$$ I'll lost if I do something...", and then they end up to do nothing.
At least they did the G8 meeting to help the situation, but the very wrong thing about the whole G8 meeting was that there wasn't all the big countries, like Russian and China. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Location: Svaynaq *Uses ROT13* The answer is: Finland!
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:
Global warming will be cancelled by nuclear winter , why of course.
But has anyone thought about gloabal warming may not be caused by the mankind? There have been warm ages before . and this could be one of those again. But i think man has something to do with it still. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I agree with Daz in saying what happens, happens. I also agree with Zodiac on the cause of global warming not being directly linked to mankind, but to another cycle of the planet we're not 100% sure operates. Sure, we know about plate shifting, the Earth shifting, etc. But, we can't know about the climate 100% sure, we haven't been here long enough to do such.
All stated above is IMO. Plz don't argue about it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
There have been ice ages, and its been shown that we actually left a mini-ice age around the early/mid-1900's.
Which related to a lack of sunspot activity known as the "Maunder Minimum".
There are natural cycles, and we can tell that through various methods, and yes Daz, you're right, its no longer the question (for most people) of whether its happening, but more the cause. I thought I'd mentioned it in my post, but didn't.
I've seen a lot of data, showing the actual levels of CO2 and other Greenhouse gases produced by human development over the years, and the difference is staggering. I don't have the data at hand, because it was in a lecture I attended, but you see that, and you think, I tell you.
But even if that isn't the cause, it really wouldn't hurt in the long run, to try and sort that out.
If we can prevent it, we should. Because as its been shown countless times, the consequences would be bad.
And if we can't prevent it, due to it being a naturally occuring system.. well. We better adapt hard, because there will be some big changes.
Although, one extra thing I'd like to add. Global Warming, although, potentially natural, isn't such a "cycle", If it reaches a point, to which many people do believe we have already passed, the affect will cause a runaway system, and that is what needs to be avoided.
As previously mentioned, the Earth's climate system is very diverse and complex, however, if you tip the bottle enough, it'll fall over without you having to add anything more.
If the Earth's climate reaches a certain temperature, with enough of the Greenhouse effect established, it will be able to self-sustain, and increase this affect all on its own. _________________ If there is a problem on the forums, PM me. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:29 am Post subject:
Global warming is a thing that I am afraid is real, yet, I'd like to think its just happening...a change, that will hopefully not end up with us looking like Venus. The climate has changed throughout the history of earth. the Mesozoic climate was quite different in the Triassic period compaired to the Cretaceous(Most of the middle of the United States was flooded out, temperatures hotter, and a variety of different plants, nevermind the fauna), for example, then we have global ice ages after the Mesozoic. Hopefully this is salvagable...
I hope. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:01 am Post subject:
It's a cycle. We'll go through some 130 degree summers and snowless winters. Then we'll be fine. It's happened many times, and as you can see by the fact we're even discussing it, we've always survived before. We'll probably survive now.
And it is, in my opinion, somewhat caused by us (humanity), though not in whole, as the media (or the USA's media, at least) would have you believe, though we did speed up the process and worsen the outcome. We certainly didn't stop it, even IF we could have, and we probably can't reverse it on our own; we'll have to let nature run its course. I believe we'll survive, and then we'll learn from our experiences this warm period and hopefully be ready next time, so that we can continue to survive. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Agreed, AOWR. And, as your sig says, many that deserve to live will die, and those who deserve to die will live. It will be a survival for the fittest situation if the world falls into a major climate shift.
Until then, guys, I'm going to ride it out, and see where it decides to go. Our fate is set, there's little we could do that would save ourselves. Instead, we must act selflessly to save those ahead of us, the youths of these upcoming ages.
Also; Evan Almighty FTW in this situation. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Location: Mixing psilocybin in your drinks.
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:53 am Post subject:
Daz wrote:
the debate is whether humans caused it.
We're ACCELLERATING the effects, and we know this because, during this same period in the last global climate cycle, we had around 250 parts per million of CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the atmosphere. In THIS cycle, in this point of the cycle, we have 350. Its had its effects on the cycle, they can't be ignored. But the fact is that we aren't the only ones doing this. Cows and termites (yes, termites) are putting out HUGE amounts of methane in our atmosphere, far more than us humans if I recall correctly. There are other organisms doing this as well, but memory doesn't serve me well enough at this point, so I can't really elaborate on what other creatures are doing the polluting (though I probably don't need to mention them anyway ).
So the answer to the great question, probably not a definitive one but one you could safely go by, is that humans are accellerating the effects of global warming/global cooling as we know it, but we don't directly cause it. _________________
[quote="DCoder"]There is no sanity left in this thread.[/quote] QUICK_EDIT
I've seen a strange type of weather the past few years here in Norway, in November and December the last two years, the temperature has been as high as 10 C, which is 5-10 C over average temprature, in February and March 2006, we got a huge amount of snow, and it kept coming until March, we had about one metre, when it stopped snowing the weather turned ice cold with -25 C, which is very unusal in March, atleast here. This winter had the first snowfall on haloween, then no snow until January if I remember correctly. In january, February, and March we had a pretty normal winter, it even snowed at the end of the easter holidays.
Now back to CO2 pollution; The CO2 level in the atmosphere went higher and higher after the indistrual revolution, I think it was about what Sir Modsalot said, the temprature has also risen about 1 C in average. I really don't see another truth than that the humans have been increasing the greenhouse effect, however I think there are natural changes. If the mexico gulf stop up, the temperature will fall about six degrees celsius in northern europe, which will be a disaster.
I'm not sure whetever will happen, it may turn out to be a colder extreme weather, or get warmer with a lot of extreme things, and if we decrease CO2 level enough, we may stabilize the world's climate or it may be too late. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject:
My signature was not for global warming...
The cow thing is awesome Sir Modsalot; can you post a link, please? I want to use that in a paper, and I need a source. I'll try and find one, but links from you or anyone else would help, beings as I suck at finding anything on the internet.
Kill cows! Eat beef! Support pest control! It slows global warming!
Hahaha. Vegetarians can no longer be all mean to me about eating beef. It saves the world!
Edit: The first one is my new MySpace signature _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Location: Mixing psilocybin in your drinks.
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:17 am Post subject:
AOWR wrote:
The cow thing is awesome Sir Modsalot; can you post a link, please? I want to use that in a paper, and I need a source. I'll try and find one, but links from you or anyone else would help, beings as I suck at finding anything on the internet.
The only numbers I've got on me ATM are for North America, and they date back to 2002, couldn't really find anything newer, my guess is it's slightly higher than it is on this page; http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2002/03/032502t_cowpower.jhtml (scroll down about a third of the way down the page, or just CTRL+F for methane until you find it on that page, easier IMO).
Worldwide numbers, you'd have to dig deeper for them. _________________
[quote="DCoder"]There is no sanity left in this thread.[/quote] QUICK_EDIT
I agree with what Sir Modsalot said, but he has missed a crucial point, in that we are not just ACCELARATING the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, but INCREASING the amount that it rises by.
The Earth has natural spikes in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere, but with the amount of fossil fuels that we are extracting and burning from the ground, combined with destruction of some of the worlds best CO2 consumers, trees, we are dramatically increasing the amount that the CO2 levels are rising by.
And if you think about it, there is one massive CO2 emitter on this planet that is more dangerous than all the other CO2 emitters combined, it's HUMAN BEINGS.
The planet can't handle the ever-rising amount of people, and if the birth-death rate keeps up as it is presently, then we will cook ourselves to death.
Anyone who believes that the global warming that we are presently experiencing is not caused by Human Beings (and that includes cows, humans are breeding cows, remember that) is either ignorant, or a complete idiot _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject:
People wont kill people however, you must admit that. Humans have no natural predator, so they will not kill oneanother and keep order. We need to follow China's birth control example, worldwide. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject:
"We need to follow China's birth control example, worldwide."
Or not. Within a couple decades China will probably cut its population to an almost insignificant number, because most people there will probably wait to have a child until they are having a boy, because a boy would supposedly have a better chance to support them in their old age; how true that boys will have the better chance supporting them, I have no idea; but it's a natural assumption. If the country has 90% boys and 10% girls, it probably won't work so well.
What we need to do is plant more trees, and reduce the amount of greenhouse gas we put into the atmosphere. Research in the area of nuclear fusion will help a lot, because its by-products are far less harmful to the atmosphere and other areas of the environment. Various hormones we give can give cows will reduce their methane levels. Or instead, we can just kill and eat more cows, which would also reduce their methane levels; but we have enough radical vegetarians that this one probably won't work. Planting trees and other plants will help a lot.
But we will have a rather hot time, no matter what. It is a natural cycle that happens no matter what, we just make it occur faster and cause the outcome to become more damaging. We can't stop hot-ages, but we can reduce the severity of them.
And I'm really not to worried about CO2, honestly. Plankton is our largest anti-CO2 agent, not trees, and that is what we need to protect. Reducing the number of idiots with engine-boats will help considerably. What I'm really worried about are the other greenhouse gases not so easily removed as Carbon-dioxide. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject:
It might be natural but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and limit our effect on the planet. I don't see any argument against it other than the cost, it encourages the development of new technology and possibly increase efficiency of technology already available.
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What we need to do is plant more trees, and reduce the amount of greenhouse gas we put into the atmosphere.
We're not just producing carbon dioxide, we also produce carbon monoxide which can't be removed with photosynthesis. This is quite a silly way to solve the problem since it's more effective in the long run to cut emissions than try and mask them. If there's a bad smell in the house, rather than spending all your time covering it up with an air freshener would it not be better to find the source of the smell and get rid of it?
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Research in the area of nuclear fusion will help a lot, because its by-products are far less harmful to the atmosphere and other areas of the environment.
Nuclear fusion is lovely and will (I'm almost positive) become far more important in the coming years, despite scare-mongering from the ignorant population and press because of the word nuclear. Research in this area is going fine, once test reactors prove stable and successful we can move to more widespread usage of nuclear fusion. We can't accelerate this process any more, we have to sit and wait.
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We need to follow China's birth control example, worldwide.
That solves nothing. The populations of first world countries are relatively stable, the Chinese one is rapidly growing and considering the government in power there it's to be expected. Nature already has its ways of culling the population as it is although they're mostly prevalent in Africa. If the population does truly become unsustainable, we'll simply starve and die until we reach a healthy level or fight until enough of us are dead for food to go around. It happens in nature, it'll happen to us. _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
The way things are today in many countries, will not hold for long I think. The useage of public transport should be increased, and the public transport should be on electricity or Hydrogen. We're digging our own graveyard.
If you drive around all the time, you get more lazy, you get in a worse shape, and you pollute.
Now, if you walk to most nearby places, or use a bikecycle, you get in a better shape, and you're climate friendly.
If EVERYONE does this, the CO2 level should decrease a lot. QUICK_EDIT
I ask... what's the use?
Let us say that humans are responsible for global warming, and that we well eventually cause a cataclysmic event on earth. Even if by sheer luck and against all impossible odds humans do 'unite' and cease their influence on the planet's ecology, it won't last long.
Humans fail to learn from history, and we are bound to repeat the same mistakes. So in the end, we will just delay the inevitable by a few centuries (so to speak). QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject:
Well we're running out of oil anyway, civilisation as we know it currently relies on oil for fuel and for plastics. It won't be pretty when countries start fighting for what's left. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
you know,is quite interesting that i heard this.a while ago,i saw o the news like 2 years ago that the astronomers where doing some reaserch and discovered that CO2 is actually help blocking the sun's rays,thus slowing down global warming.its really weird if you think about it but its true.this also means we use way to much fuel,because the CO2 lvl is so high,the sun's rays are weakened but the CO2 levels in the area,making it as a sheild around the earth.so if you think about it,its quite good to have a balanced lvl of CO2,and the scientists are hypothesising weither or not global warming is increasing do to people reducing CO2.people dont need to worry bout CO2,its not as large as chmeical waste and compounds being thrown out into the rivers and streams,or nuclear power plants having radioactive waste spill. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:06 am Post subject:
Clazzy wrote
Quote:
It might be natural but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and limit our effect on the planet. I don't see any argument against it other than the cost, it encourages the development of new technology and possibly increase efficiency of technology already available.
I didn't say we should limit our effect on the planet, beings as we are the single largest force of influence among living creatures. I just said that is was largely natural not artificial, and that Liberal Media should stop blaming us for causing the whole thing, when we didn't. I'll state this once again, as no-one seems to see it in every post; I do believe we accelerated and worsened the problem, and we should do all we can to reverse the damage. I agree that we are partially responsible, just not wholly responsible, as the Liberal Media states.
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What we need to do is plant more trees, and reduce the amount of greenhouse gas we put into the atmosphere.
We're not just producing carbon dioxide, we also produce carbon monoxide which can't be removed with photosynthesis. This is quite a silly way to solve the problem since it's more effective in the long run to cut emissions than try and mask them. If there's a bad smell in the house, rather than spending all your time covering it up with an air freshener would it not be better to find the source of the smell and get rid of it?
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and reduce the amount of greenhouse gas we put into the atmosphere.
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And I'm really not too worried about CO2, honestly. Plankton is our largest anti-CO2 agent, not trees, and that is what we need to protect. Reducing the number of idiots with engine-boats will help considerably. What I'm really worried about are the other greenhouse gases not so easily removed as Carbon-dioxide.
Please read all my posts in this topic all the way through, as I already answered that statement before you made it. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
you know,is quite interesting that i heard this.a while ago,i saw o the news like 2 years ago that the astronomers where doing some reaserch and discovered that CO2 is actually help blocking the sun's rays,thus slowing down global warming.its really weird if you think about it but its true.this also means we use way to much fuel,because the CO2 lvl is so high,the sun's rays are weakened but the CO2 levels in the area,making it as a sheild around the earth.so if you think about it,its quite good to have a balanced lvl of CO2,and the scientists are hypothesising weither or not global warming is increasing do to people reducing CO2.people dont need to worry bout CO2,its not as large as chmeical waste and compounds being thrown out into the rivers and streams,or nuclear power plants having radioactive waste spill.
WTF?? That is a complete load of garbage! People DO need to worry about the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, it does NOT shield against the suns rays, it KEEPS THEM IN, like a greenhouse! You are obviously mistaking CO2 with the ozone layer (O3) Anyway, that was 2 years ago, we know better now
(And you have enough grammar mistakes in that paragraph to make my 6 year old sister cry!) _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:23 am Post subject:
I think the "sun's rays" referred to are UV and such rays. CO2 could concievably keep those out, though I've personally never heard of it, helping prevent skin cancer and such, but that wouldn't help stop global warming. Excess CO2 speeds up global warming, as we all know. But really, CO2 doesn't matter that much as it'd be easily removable if everyone acted responsibly about the environment, it's stuff like Methane and Carbon Monoxide that really harm us, since they are harder to remove and harder to cut back on in emissions, especially since humans aren't a major contributor of Methane. I don't know where you heard about CO2 slowing global warming, but it is entirely false information. I believe you are remembering it in a slightly altered way from it's original form, and that (as previously stated) it refered to 'UV and such rays'. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Please read all my posts in this topic all the way through, as I already answered that statement before you made it.
I did, I simply couldn't be bothered answering your bit about plankton. Plankton are across the whole planet, people in boats aren't killing them off at a genocidal rate and it isn't an issue. The most densely populated areas wouldn't be on the coast since there would be limited room for the plankton to expand. Most other greenhouse gases aren't too great an issue because they're not terribly widespread and are lighter than air. Carbon monoxide is extremely rare but can present problems if it accumulates because it can't escape the atmosphere like the other gases. Besides, even if it doesn't I believe there's a reaction it can undergo with water if it receives energy from cosmic rays. I say again, not a major issue.
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I think the "sun's rays" referred to are UV and such rays.
The Sun's rays are the electromagnetic spectrum. As for the carbon dioxide blocking out some parts of the spectrum, that could be feasible. Like with a greenhouse, not all light goes through the atmosphere, some gets reflected back. I'm assuming that the carbon dioxide absorbs the energy from the photons, becomes excited then releases photons back out, which may possibly head towards Earth and may also go back into space. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
you know,is quite interesting that i heard this.a while ago,i saw o the news like 2 years ago that the astronomers where doing some reaserch and discovered that CO2 is actually help blocking the sun's rays,thus slowing down global warming.its really weird if you think about it but its true.this also means we use way to much fuel,because the CO2 lvl is so high,the sun's rays are weakened but the CO2 levels in the area,making it as a sheild around the earth.so if you think about it,its quite good to have a balanced lvl of CO2,and the scientists are hypothesising weither or not global warming is increasing do to people reducing CO2.people dont need to worry bout CO2,its not as large as chmeical waste and compounds being thrown out into the rivers and streams,or nuclear power plants having radioactive waste spill.
WTF?? That is a complete load of garbage! People DO need to worry about the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, it does NOT shield against the suns rays, it KEEPS THEM IN, like a greenhouse! You are obviously mistaking CO2 with the ozone layer (O3) Anyway, that was 2 years ago, we know better now
(And you have enough grammar mistakes in that paragraph to make my 6 year old sister cry!)
may be 2 years ago,but still being debated right now.its not garbage.if you were smart and think for a few moments on the subject,you can probably find a possibility,not just going by your own thoughts right aay and saying so.the world does'nt work in absolutes.and you fail to see that it was a hypothesis.
and that being said,CO2 isnt a huge major problem even with out saying that done.
and sorry about my grammar,did'nt spell check,and just say it,dont hide it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I really don't know. Norwegian have a lot more rain then i remember. Oslo got more water on street and people need move from there homes.. Maybe we got weather changing.(<- Right?)
Anyways, the pole are and are going to be gone, and the golf stream is getting weaker and weaker any days.
I just I hope i dead before is get to a really critic level. We leave in a hell planet.
War, hunger, and now 1 more big problem. What is going to happened. If it get a new ice age? A bigger problem.
Insect take and drag disease around the world, and is getting worst.
Think on all problems in the World u can write a really big book:!:
Global Warming, Global dimming, hunger, AIDS ( And all that kind disease, Mafia, War, women/guys get rapes, we getting dumber^^.(<- we need fight for a little thing, not smart enjoy to talk about it.)
Anyways, global warming. Is a big topic in the world. And the FN panel try to do something, and countries not join and do something. _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:58 am Post subject:
Quote:
I did, I simply couldn't be bothered answering your bit about plankton. Plankton are across the whole planet, people in boats aren't killing them off at a genocidal rate and it isn't an issue. The most densely populated areas wouldn't be on the coast since there would be limited room for the plankton to expand. Most other greenhouse gases aren't too great an issue because they're not terribly widespread and are lighter than air. Carbon monoxide is extremely rare but can present problems if it accumulates because it can't escape the atmosphere like the other gases. Besides, even if it doesn't I believe there's a reaction it can undergo with water if it receives energy from cosmic rays. I say again, not a major issue.
You have an excellent point. I concede the matter.
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I think the "sun's rays" referred to are UV and such rays.
The Sun's rays are the electromagnetic spectrum. As for the carbon dioxide blocking out some parts of the spectrum, that could be feasible. Like with a greenhouse, not all light goes through the atmosphere, some gets reflected back. I'm assuming that the carbon dioxide absorbs the energy from the photons, becomes excited then releases photons back out, which may possibly head towards Earth and may also go back into space.
[/quote]
I didn't mean I thought all rays were UV, just the ones being filtered. I know the Sun's rays are accross the whole spectrum. I'm not quite that stupid; stupid maybe, but not that stupid. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Global warming is caused by cosmic rays and the sun. True story.
No, but joking aside, I just read an interesting interview in the July issue of Discover magazine that posed an interesting hypothesis. What if CO2 isn't the leading cause of global warming? There is a correlation between solar activity and the temperature on Earth. What if humans aren't to blame?
I still say we need to overhaul our fossil fuel system though and be better to the environment. Because even if it isn't our fault, another century of gas output like this and it will be our fault because any solar cause will be amplified.
Is a lot of gass some are even worst but is more CO2 then any others gass some can change the clima in the air(atmosphere) _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:01 am Post subject:
bah
The earth is way overated. Its time we made outposts in space simply because the earth environment is violent and unstable. The only real advantage is the fact that it can desolve smaller asteroids, but then it amplifies the effect of larger ones.
<>
I really disagree fusion will ever be viable. fusion energy violates a simple understanding of the universe. It takes effort to create, which is essentially what fusion is, the bonding of atoms. So far I'd say failed experiments like the laser quartz experiment and the fact that all thermonuclear devices require fision prove me right. Humans should be happy and stick with fission. We only inhabit a small portion of the planet anyways. _________________ the doctor is in QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:35 am Post subject:
Quote:
It takes effort to create, which is essentially what fusion is, the bonding of atoms.
How do you start a coal, gas or oil power plant? You'll have to light the fuel first, putting in effort. Once the reaction starts, it should be self-sustainable as the energy released will provide enough heat to keep it going. _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:30 am Post subject:
Unstable and other such terms are another word/set of words for: "If idiots run and observe this machine instead of the people who are supposed to and have the knowledge to, then it will blow up and take a couple miles of landscape with it." This problem is largely, though not entirely eliminated if we keep intelligent people in the positions of watch and management.
Space colonization would be great... if we currently had that ability. It's hard enough to get astronauts off the ground with enough air to survive a couple of days or weeks, much less a colony of workers with an atmosphere containment unit of some kind plus the plants and animals required to sustain said atmosphere, and the nutrients to support said plants and animals, plus people who are willing to leave their homeworld and go to some new, unexplored territory. Then you need some working form of order and government in this place, and it would likely need to be quite different from our governments, which have never quite been in this situation. You would also need to maintain the atmospheric containment unit, making sure to aviod punctures, cracks, leaks and such, plus keep it heated/cooled to the survival temperature of the humans/animals/plants.
It is an possible solution, eventually. But probably not within the next few centuries. Fusion, on the other hand, will be around and manageable within the next few decades. And personally, I'd like a solution I'll live to see. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Global warming is caused by cosmic rays and the sun. True story.
No, but joking aside, I just read an interesting interview in the July issue of Discover magazine that posed an interesting hypothesis. What if CO2 isn't the leading cause of global warming? There is a correlation between solar activity and the temperature on Earth. What if humans aren't to blame?
I still say we need to overhaul our fossil fuel system though and be better to the environment. Because even if it isn't our fault, another century of gas output like this and it will be our fault because any solar cause will be amplified.
yah you see,this is one of the things ive been trying to say,C02 is not the big pivture here..
and to the people saying plankton is good and help stop global warming and thatsort...and saying we should have mroe allgie..
wrong,we should not becayse now,the allgie in north america have collected some toxins and other deadly stuff,for example the CO2.the plankton are now deadly and what eat plankton?fish.now that the fish have eaten the plankton,the fish is contaminated and infected,and who eats fish...us(well most of us).so algie really isnt gonig to save thaty much. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject:
That is a good point. But I hate seafood, so I'm not going to be affected. Bummer for the rest of the world, though.
And I didn't say we needed more algae, beings as much of it is harmful. I said we need to be careful that some mass polution doesn't destroy our hydro-ecology. What this would be, I don't know. _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject:
Well a big solution, is to get us less dam dependant on the things that cause pollution in the first place-
when you think about it, it could solve a great chunk of the problem if we disposed of some comforts, that are makin us lazy & even more dependant on them..
for example, riding a bike instead of driving, if it's a reasonable distance away.
Who knows, it might even help solve our obesity issue as well _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject:
PA
I'll admit that I use my car to drive a quarter mile every day to work!!! at least its only 1600 pounds/4 cylinder and it passed emissions so it has low output _________________ the doctor is in QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:55 am Post subject:
Well Europeans got a better handle on gas conservation, but I really wish more of us Americans would get on the ball _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
you kinding me,italy sell there gas for 3 cents per litre,europe also to balme on the major CO2 levels in the atmosphere... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:59 am Post subject:
solution
The thing that bothers me most about this issue is that some people are trying to say lower or no emissions could solve it. This isn't true because there are other sources of CO. Our planet is changing and if we don't begin changing it to our needs then our future may be bleak. What we really need to do is put a reflective shield around the out edges of the south pole to advert a possible catastrophe due to higher sea temperatures by lowering the temperature of the surrounding sea half of the year. If necessary we may have to erect a great span of reflective artificial landmass in order to lower global sea temperature... _________________ the doctor is in QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Location: A ship going to the Ark so I can blow the crap out of the Covenant, WA
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:23 am Post subject:
Where do you plan to get the funds to do that? _________________ When you've convinced yourself that killing an animal is 'murder', but killing an unborn human being is 'choice', you sir have become as dangerous as a person can be.
Joined: 10 May 2007 Location: NERV headquarters in EVA-01
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:
anyaway i think globalwarming is kind of a sham. 2 things on it
1) i personally think it is a natural cycle that we have thrown off balance
2) its the destruction of the friggin rain forests,stop that, regrow them, cut carbon emissions abit and we will be fine _________________ U flame me the evangelion series will kill u QUICK_EDIT
sarpedon are you screwed up inyour idiotic head?or are you just stupid....
global warming is not just the destruction of rain forests,its also the destruction the polar bears in the north and the water levels rising in the oceans and lakes due to the north pole's huge mountain glaciers melting and soon,to the point where every one gets migraines... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Where do you plan to get the funds to do that?
Why is money an issue when the planet itself is at risk? If a large meteorite was hurtling towards Earth and it had a high likelyhood of hitting, would governments not pour money into solving the problem regardless? _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
What bothers me is the fact we need to hear from a guy like Al Gore, who uses 20 times more energy in a month then a normal American familly, saying we need to think about our envorinment. Somebody with 6 huge flatscreens in his office telling ME that I should turn my central heating system a little lower . Really, what is this guy thinking? Something just isnt right here. I think it has to do with governments needing more money, and everybody just keeps paying more and more tax. Some time ago everyone was whining about acid rain. Money was needed to wipe this problem out. Do we hear anything about it today? No today it's all about CO2.. Hypocrite politicians and celebrities pointing the finger at normalpeople saying we need to slow down. It really pisses me off. And don't say acid rain doesn't excist anymore, because it is still there!
Our envorinment is constantly changing. Doesn't say the word "Mammoth" say you guys anything? It died out because the ice age was over :O!!. Suprise! It is getting warmer! Strange?? NO! And to keep the balance, other parts of tour planet are getting colder. Nothing really strange about it actually, only today everybody is screaming DOOM and APOCALYPSE just because nowadays we have the technology to monitor temperatures acurately and compare them to the years before. Now let me see.. How long do we have these ACURATE monitoring devices? Hmm.. Less then 100 years! Wow that aint much really. I don't think we have any data from the past 65 million years do we? So what are we comparing really? I mean.. come on..
There is NO evidence whatsoever that human culture is the cause of global warming. I don't say our climate isn't changing, but it is not because of us. Those envorinmental people all claim CO2 from my hummer is the main cause of global warming. But look around you! Every living thing is producing CO2! The ocean alone is harboring billions of organisms all using oxygen. Suprise! They produce CO2! All plants at night produce CO2! All these cocky envorinmental people claim to be so "green" to the world, and all buy a Toyota Prius to be an "example for the people who drive normal cars".
Funny fact: people claiming a Toyota Prius is more healthy for the envorinment. I read an article about this, and guess what? A prius is 3 times more destructive for the envorinment then a hummer .
Read this: http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/images/evilprius.html if you don't believe me. What do you mean better for the envorinment? Better for your fuel expenses maybe! Building Hybrid cars is even worse for our planet! Doesnt mind me, i wont be buying one. I drive around in my Alfa Romeo 159 DIESEL, pwning people in so called "envorinmental cars" just to piss them off. "Haha! You wanted to be "envorinmental", but you destroyed more nature I wasted in my entire life driving around this car, and you end up with 40 horsepower less than me, and a plain ugly car." Serves you right
We, as humans, are nothing on this earth. Maybe we think we are something, but we aint. And thinking we could influence a whole planet with our activities is just plain stupid in my opinion. Who the hell do you think we are?
This is just a natural phenomenon, but from all sides people are scaring other people with this crap, or making profit out of it. It's a shame really.
That's what I have to say about this. _________________ Criticizing n00bs is like booing at the special olympics. QUICK_EDIT
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Global Warming
).
Kill cows! Eat beef! Support pest control! It slows global warming! 
That is a complete load of garbage! People DO need to worry about the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, it does NOT shield against the suns rays, it KEEPS THEM IN, like a greenhouse! 
You are obviously mistaking CO2 with the ozone layer (O3) 
Anyway, that was 2 years ago, we know better now 
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