Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:51 am Post subject:
The Golden Compass
Subject description: Have you seen it yet?
I went to the movie premiere tonite, and I must say I was very impressed.
The decision to choose British actors was a brilliant move, as well as Nicole Kidman. The movie was not butchered like Hollywood likes to do, so it was pretty enjoyable. The screenwriters managed to include the most important plot events without changing things around too much.
Battle scenes were amazing, of course, and the only reason the movie got such a low rating(in my opinion it deserved much more) is because many dialogs and events that were in the book were cut off, while this may keep your average movie goer from falling asleep, it also leaves them confused as hell.
I think I was the only one in the theater that actually understood the terms used in the movie and the plot because I read the book.
If you're looking for a good movie to watch and don't care for details, it's a must see.
If you like to concentrate on the story.... well, I suggest you read the book first. QUICK_EDIT
if you're a believer you might find it quite offensive. (Let's not start the whole freedom-of-speech endless crap again).
so with this premise, I say that apart from the content; effects are good, CGI is good, would've been quite a classic. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
So I am not sure on the hype, but I think all media boycotts are silly.
they attempt to pressure productions to only accept their opinions.
Often using fallacies to support their stance.
People should make their own decisions and exercise critical thinking....
but I can see why some groups are oppose to such logic.
While depends on their interpretation of theme though.
Kidman is a person of Catholic faith and stars in the movie.
Remaining clear that the theme isn't really a religious attack.
After watching "Happy Feet." I noticed it can offend people
who are more staunch social conservatives. but I digress. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
I Certainly hope that wasn't a piss-take.
Anyway, I found it really boring, the story-line was crap too. You'd of believed it was written by a 10 year old (all in my opinion, of course). QUICK_EDIT
Well,I ahve read the book,and I must say,It was much more entertaining,because when you read the book,it adds snse of fantasy in it,and you can depict the own images in your head,rather then seeing it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I Certainly hope that wasn't a piss-take.
Anyway, I found it really boring, the story-line was crap too. You'd of believed it was written by a 10 year old (all in my opinion, of course).
It was wrote for children to "young adults".
I've yet to see it but it annoys me that they rename it 'The Golden Compass' for no apparent reason. QUICK_EDIT
I Certainly hope that wasn't a piss-take.
Anyway, I found it really boring, the story-line was crap too. You'd of believed it was written by a 10 year old (all in my opinion, of course).
It was wrote for children to "young adults".
I've yet to see it but it annoys me that they rename it 'The Golden Compass' for no apparent reason.
Its called the golden compass because the book (northern lights) was released in the US as 'Golden Compass', so they went with that instead of having 2 different names for two different regions.
IVI wrote:
well, it's a good film if you're an atheist.
if you're a believer you might find it quite offensive. (Let's not start the whole freedom-of-speech endless crap again).
so with this premise, I say that apart from the content; effects are good, CGI is good, would've been quite a classic.
Imo, anyone who is offended by the anti-religious-ness (english skills ftw) is an idiot, anyone who takes it as a personal affront to themselves should be kicked out the Cinema. Im looking forward to seeing who they turn the 'God' character and the angals into seeing's as they've turned away from the anti-christianity of the book and gone for a more anti-organized religion stance. Last edited by Tratos on Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Is Nicole Kidman a roman catholic? I thought she had another religion; the same one Tom Cruise has. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Its called the golden compass because the book (northern lights) was released in the US as 'Golden Compass', so they went with that instead of having 2 different names for two different regions.
Which is my point, they took the US name not the original one. They did the same crap with Harry Potter and the 'Sorcerors Stone' with the only justification being that they consider the US too stupid to know what the 'Philosopher's stone' was. But really, 'Northern Lights' is not at all similar to 'The Golden Compass' and was totally unnecessary for both the book and the movie. QUICK_EDIT
Its called the golden compass because the book (northern lights) was released in the US as 'Golden Compass', so they went with that instead of having 2 different names for two different regions.
Which is my point, they took the US name not the original one. They did the same crap with Harry Potter and the 'Sorcerors Stone' with the only justification being that they consider the US too stupid to know what the 'Philosopher's stone' was. But really, 'Northern Lights' is not at all similar to 'The Golden Compass' and was totally unnecessary for both the book and the movie.
I bought my book in Israel, it was named: Amatzpen Azahuv - which literally translates to the Golden Compass. QUICK_EDIT
Imo, anyone who is offended by the anti-religious-ness (english skills ftw) is an idiot,anyone who takes it as a personal affront to themselves should be kicked out the Cinema.
believe it or not, many people don't like the book series nor the movie.I think it's the book series that is found to be offensive, and some think that the movie is a way to get parents to buy their kids the books.
Tratos wrote:
Im looking forward to seeing who they turn the 'God' character and the angals into seeing's as they've turned away from the anti-christianity of the book and gone for a more anti-organized religion stance.
what?
Tratos wrote:
Tom 'the aliens will save us' Cruise
lol _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Man, another witchhunt in the making...
I can already see the headlines: "The Vatican labels 'The Golden Compass' as a work of heresy and a sin against god."
Like someone once said: "Adults with imaginary friends are stupid." QUICK_EDIT
I found the book pretty entertaining. I had read it earlier during the first quarter of the school year in my British Literature class. Which even reading through that one I didn't see how Religious going people could find that book or parts of it offensive. Provided I haven't read the 2nd or 3rd book in the series yet. I am hoping to see the movie soon as it looks pretty good. My Brit. Lit. class keep trying to convince our teacher that we need to take a field trip to go watch it. XD
I just find it incredibly stupid for people to get mad over a fictional piece of writing even if it is against religious ideas. Doesn't change it from being fictional and for entertainment purposes. But meh whatever some people are just weird.
I haven't heard but have any movie theaters not allowed the movie at their theaters?
If so then thats a bunch of shit unless its a private theater because Religion should be left aside and shouldn't matter in public places like theaters. :S (in other words: public places should show anything they want to and disregard religious views) _________________ Kalistia Crestland (2)
In Soviet Russia, grass grows on tiberium! QUICK_EDIT
The ironic thing is it proves their point. that some people obviously doesn't like the idea of "freewill" and attempts to rile against it. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Its called the golden compass because the book (northern lights) was released in the US as 'Golden Compass', so they went with that instead of having 2 different names for two different regions.
Which is my point, they took the US name not the original one. They did the same crap with Harry Potter and the 'Sorcerors Stone' with the only justification being that they consider the US too stupid to know what the 'Philosopher's stone' was. But really, 'Northern Lights' is not at all similar to 'The Golden Compass' and was totally unnecessary for both the book and the movie.
It wasnt that American's were too stupid, but that the word 'Philosopher' means a different thing in american culture. Presumably your average american would not know what the 'Northern lights' are as they probably know them by another name, i would imagine they call the phenomemon by its actual name - aurora borealis, which is frankly a stupid name for a film unless its a documentary.
The fact is the american market is vastly larger than the european market, i would imagine something like 90% of Americans have a cinema/theater within 5 miles of their home, whilst in Europe the figure would probably be much lower (only England is that crowded). QUICK_EDIT
I just find it incredibly stupid for people to get mad over a fictional piece of writing even if it is against religious ideas. Doesn't change it from being fictional and for entertainment purposes. But meh whatever some people are just weird.
I laughed
than I laughed again
than I fell off the chair
People who believe in a fictional piece of writing get mad over another fictional piece of writing. QUICK_EDIT
I just find it incredibly stupid for people to get mad over a fictional piece of writing even if it is against religious ideas. Doesn't change it from being fictional and for entertainment purposes. But meh whatever some people are just weird.
I laughed
than I laughed again
than I fell off the chair
People who believe in a fictional piece of writing get mad over another fictional piece of writing.
With all due respect, It's easy to see why people get offended when something they sincerely and devotedly believe in gets attacked.
for example, many muslims believe in their faith so strongly. a mere criticism of their faith or their ways can turn them against you. like, forever.
You can have such faith and fervor for your country that the mere ridicule of your motherland can fuel your anger.
many people die because of such things, and wars have been made because of that too. that's going a bit too far with regards to this Golden Compas vs. Christianity (not just roman catholicsm mind you) but what I'm getting at is people who believe and love their faith/beliefs do exist you know. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
hell its just a kiddie movie (or I guess young adults) but take it as you will be it an act of heresy or whatever your heart can desire. this isn't directed at anyone in particular.
"I haven't heard but have any movie theaters not allowed the movie at their theaters?
If so then thats a bunch of shit unless its a private theater because Religion should be left aside and shouldn't matter in public places like theaters. :S (in other words: public places should show anything they want to and disregard religious views)"
yes it happens in a sort, they choose for how long they wish to air the film, and that can be shorter than a week in my town _________________ QUICK_EDIT
If you want to know what it's all about then read the three books.
I haven't heard of religious orgs shutting down theaters, what are you talking about?
atm, all I heard of is that the roman catholics are calling for a boycott of the movie. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Also its sad that faiths such as Westboro exists. The shame of the body of Christ, twisting a good set of moral concepts into hate and discord.Spreading fear for-profit.
Also the fiasco with the teddy bear teacher. and I recalled vaguely and some businesses in Canada or elsewhere had to remove images of pigs. such as Piglet or any other character to accommodate religion.
While I don't agree with trying to go that far. I mean the teacher was in a bad situation in a predominately muslin nation, and it ended in a pardon. The war on piglet? I found a bit extreme. its a western country, immigrants have to lighten up to established culture not the other way around?
Its like if I went to the Olive Garden and asked people not to eat pasta and meat balls because it offended my religion.
but getting so offtopic. Those polar bears were sweet I wish I could ride one. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Also its sad that faiths such as Westboro exists. The shame of the body of Christ, twisting a good set of moral concepts into hate and discord.Spreading fear for-profit.
I hate it when people do that too. If you read the Bible you'll see that there's much in it that can help one live his life properly.
Ickus wrote:
Also the fiasco with the teddy bear teacher. and I recalled vaguely and some businesses in Canada or elsewhere had to remove images of pigs. such as Piglet or any other character to accommodate religion.
While I don't agree with trying to go that far. I mean the teacher was in a bad situation in a predominately muslin nation, and it ended in a pardon. The war on piglet? I found a bit extreme. its a western country, immigrants have to lighten up to established culture not the other way around?
Its like if I went to the Olive Garden and asked people not to eat pasta and meat balls because it offended my religion.
well, the Americas are the vanguards of democracy so that's inevitably something that must come with it. I guess.... _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject:
Well I haven't yet seen the movie, but the controversy of it sounds familiar..
It's not so much the freedom of speech against religion that would be the big issue, but the misrepresentation of it that gets people so pissed.
It would be a misrepresentation FOR EXAMPLE, if someone wrote a story were it told about Jesus flipping money changer's tables in the temple.. Then having the author write out all the "Christian" characters in this story to go around terrorizing capitalist buildings and such.
Then at the end of the story, it would have some kind of message that "religion leads to hate" or something.
This would be a gross misrepresentation of the Christian faith, and would no doubt piss off the Christians who have practiced their faith to live in peace and honor.
Again, I haven't seen the movie yet, but misrepresentation of religion is something I see very often.
I agree %110 that people should be allowed to speak freely, but if it's a gross misrepresentation or a lie that's being spread around, it's no less evil than if a message of truth were to be restrained _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
it would have some kind of message that "religion leads to hate" or something.
This would be a gross misrepresentation of the Christian faith, and would no doubt piss off the Christians who have practiced their faith to live in peace and honor.
religion does lead to hate and violence, you don't even need to open a history book, just open your daily newspaper.
And besides, if those Christians are so devoted to living in peace and honor they would not react so drastically when they encounter criticism.
Hypocritical bastards, that's what I tell you: They call for democracy and freedom of speech so they can spend their religious propaganda and convert people; but when someone goes against them, they demand to revoke that person's freedom of speech. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject:
Generalize a little bit more will ya. Maybe I should rest my case
All Christians are narrow-minded, prejudicial hypocrites, all they want to do is disrespect people who don't believe the same things they do. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
lol, TB; like that guy in that book that you guys believe in, what's he called? The good S.....itan or summat? I think its samaritan; anyways, good on you. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Generalize a little bit more will ya. Maybe I should rest my case
All Christians are narrow-minded, prejudicial hypocrites, all they want to do is disrespect people who don't believe the same things they do.
Oh, not just Christians, most religions are that way.
...and yes, religious people are usually narrow-minded and prejudicial. They don't have to disrespect people who don't believe the same thing they do, they can just get very aggressive when someone even tries to hint of something that goes against their beliefs.
You can rest your case if you want, but that still won't change the fact that religion causes many violent conflicts; and if you say that they don't, you are either ignorant or a liar QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Location: Village of Creston, British Columbia.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:04 am Post subject:
*Is in utter agree-ance with Styledatol*
I've seen and read many a thing similiar to this sort of thing, what really bothers me is that it's just literature. Like a scary movie, if it scares people that much they dont watch it, where as those who are interested in it do watch the film. If one's so offended, why'd they watch it? As for the whole movie theatre thing, thus far I've managed to find at least one movie theatre per moderately sized town and up. In fact the religion-centered movies usually dont stay around town for too long, where as the other movies here are for a week minimum, sometimes 2 weeks if it was good enough. Actually I left religion because of they hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness of it all, missionaries of who knows how many different churchs have pestered me ever since... _________________
Oh, fuggerbuggerrit! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:38 am Post subject:
What if I were to say,
All atheists are narrow-minded, prejudicial hypocrites, all they want to do is disrespect people who don't believe the same things they do.
All religions aren't the same, good things and bad things can come from it, depending on how it is practiced.
Saying a hideous blanket statement like "religion is bad" is the most prejudice thing I've ever heard _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
Generalize a little bit more will ya. Maybe I should rest my case
All Christians are narrow-minded, prejudicial hypocrites, all they want to do is disrespect people who don't believe the same things they do.
Oh, not just Christians, most religions are that way.
...and yes, religious people are usually narrow-minded and prejudicial. They don't have to disrespect people who don't believe the same thing they do, they can just get very aggressive when someone even tries to hint of something that goes against their beliefs.
You can rest your case if you want, but that still won't change the fact that religion causes many violent conflicts; and if you say that they don't, you are either ignorant or a liar
Actually true Christianity should make people more peaceful. It's just that so many opportunistic persons use Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to twist their follower's mindsets for their own purposes.
Please find where in the New Testament Jesus Christ ever commanded to reclaim the Holy Land by crusading, purge the unfaithful by inquisition, discriminate people of other races etc. etc. If you do find some, then please post it here.
While there are religions that advocate violence and genocide, don't be so quick to generalize. It's people who twist their religions to make war or kill others who are the problem.
Team Black wrote:
Saying a hideous blanket statement like "religion is bad" is the most prejudice thing I've ever heard
indeed. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
religion does have its good points, since the reformation, and now evolution of faith in modern day growing along side technology and accepting scientific advancements. Not trying to take credit over them or disproving it because it conflicts with faith.
It is political power that corrupts religion. It is the twisting of the "Great Commission" and the ability to interpret scripture to suit these corrupt ideas. as IVI mention. I see that the Far-Right Conservative mentality it's fear of modernization and progressive theories cause such extremist interpretations. For example white-supremacist "Christian Identity" churches interpret themselves to be god's chosen people or the ten lost tribes of Israel. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Please find where in the New Testament Jesus Christ ever commanded to reclaim the Holy Land by crusading, purge the unfaithful by inquisition, discriminate people of other races etc. etc. If you do find some, then please post it here.
I think we can both agree that Christianity as long since departed from the original meaning Jesus gave it. A religion whose leaders can make up rules on the run is a hive of corruption (Sadly, the same is true for Judaism; where Rabbis have authority over the word of the bible).
Ickus said it well: while religion in essence is meant to give man a purpose in life, human nature as corrupted religion - and now it can be used for personal gain through unpure means.
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:09 am Post subject:
Well any good thing can really contorted and used for evil, religion is no exception.
Anyone can pull a Pope Urban and say "God wills it", but not actually be following the real will of God.
What God wills as Jesus preached is pretty straightforward -
love God, love your fellow mankind _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
I think we can both agree that Christianity as long since departed from the original meaning Jesus gave it. A religion whose leaders can make up rules on the run is a hive of corruption (Sadly, the same is true for Judaism; where Rabbis have authority over the word of the bible).
Ickus said it well: while religion in essence is meant to give man a purpose in life, human nature as corrupted religion - and now it can be used for personal gain through unpure means.
Absolutely right. But that doesn't mean we should trash Jesus, make fun of him (like some people I've seen) and the words that he left us. I have the same anger against those corrupt leaders you are referring to. They twisted and gnarled and polluted good teachings. (also, know that this goes for many other religions too)
I've found that my life often runs well when I follow what the Bible says. And I can say with certainty that the Bible has been extremely helpful in showing me how to live properly.
Team Black wrote:
Well any good thing can really contorted and used for evil, religion is no exception.
that's true; although as I stand today, I've lost faith in institutions. Too many frauds have claimed "Oooo, ooo this is the way! the truth! the truth!!" when they're all just after the money (and the women). _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Well as a personal belief, of course not. Debating a subject matter should not resort to straw man tactics to prove a point. While as a separate idea I can attack it. as much as I want. I can research it, and ultimately say it is "useless" to my existence. The issue then is then the person finding <i>my</i> choice offensive.
One can get riled up over people wearing "Jesus is a *insert profanity*)." shirt. I am pretty sure many bystanders have.. when in essence its only a string of words. It is the reader who chooses to become offended by them. (which is their intent) but it is a choice made by that person, albeit a very difficult one. Either "Turn the other Cheek." or fall into temptation. Which choosing the latter each time, would make one very very stressed out person.
At least one can smirk when that time of yours comes..you know at least one person that won't be there in heaven. _________________ Delirium.. Last edited by Ickus on Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:03 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
1.)it's not entirely a strawman fallacy on the basis that I was trying to set up the point below (albeit a bit biased point, yes, because I spoke out of my own experience)
I did not deny that christianity has departed from what it should've been (as Jesus would've wanted it) but not just because people concoct a religion twisted and corrupt from the original teachings means that the original teachings themselves are twisted and corrupt. see the point?
moreover:
many people find that the teachings of Jesus to be helpful (I included).
many of our laws today were based on teachings of the Bible; because they made sense.
It's common sense that if you know something will do you good, then more often than not, you'll practice it. it's simple practical living.
2.)But all things considered, I accept your argument Ickus. however does that mean that you can print up all sorts of offensive and provocative themes concerning Christianity because of the "hey, if you get offended then it's your fault!" premise? You can't always bring up the philosophical "it's just a string of words afterall" argument and feel that the people offended are overreacting....
3.) It'll be begging the question that Heaven and Hell does exist; when the offender himself doesn't believe in that thing.
I can offer something that's always true (with scenario 1 begging the question) though:
As an atheist who keeps on saying things against God,
IF the atheist dies and There is a God, then heh, I'd hate to know what will happen to him next as he stands there before Him! IDK if there's anything he can say for his defense.
however,
If the atheist dies and nothing happens (i.e. the atheist decomposes and his disintegrated parts are used by producers for another cycle of life), well theres your argument's proof in its "True" form.
so any of the two can happen:
1.)damnation
or
2.)oblivion _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Oh no, I was not stating your post was based on the Strawman, I just was stating an ethical principle when discussing or debating a topic. I also apologize for that assumption on profanity.
In essence my point is that while religion suits your views and ethics it does not always answer everyone else's. In many cases some teachings are based on universal ethics shared by many cultures and traditions. Not that religion is bad, in fact a culture profits by allowing diversity. I mean many faiths tried to become isolated and found themselves becoming extinct. "The Shaker Colony".
In essence it is said "Jesus is just an archetype character that uses traits by previous religious figures that predate Christianity".
So trying to solely use Jesus to communicate a solid moral philosophy might not always be best approach. Sometimes one has to create a character that a modern audience can relate to.
I myself I can't relate to Jesus at all, but maybe something more complementary. I know its pretty silly but it happens. How characters capture similar topics just as well or even better. While I don't think there will be ever "First Church of Master Chief or Kane" but people can relate to the concept of "good and evil." of course without the arsenal of sci-weaponry or legions of Black hand commandos.
Begging the Question.
IVI wrote:
3.) It'll be begging the question that Heaven and Hell does exist; when the offender himself doesn't believe in that thing.
I can offer something that's always true (with scenario 1 begging the question) though:
As an atheist who keeps on saying things against God,
IF the atheist dies and There is a God, then heh, I'd hate to know what will happen to him next as he stands there before Him! IDK if there's anything he can say for his defense.
however,
If the atheist dies and nothing happens (i.e. the atheist decomposes and his disintegrated parts are used by producers for another cycle of life), well theres your argument's proof in its "True" form.
so any of the two can happen:
1.)damnation
or
2.)oblivion
Heaven and Hell as metaphysical concepts, there is no proof thus it will be debated upon ad nauseum. You can say we really do not exist. or something close to home, that we are all very advance bots made by EA to continue to mod an old game and hype up any new C&C game.
Hell can exist as a city in Michigan, as mental state ie metaphor. Same goes with heaven. Nirvana, Shangri-la. Paradise. etc.
The concept of Hell isn't a Christian either, it started out as Tartarous and Sheol. Also that trash pit people use to sacrifice to Moloch. Even the concept of Satan which is Hebrew for "Enemy" is distorted to be demonized version of Pan or other old deities.
Another?:Is it possible to believe the world is flat and still live full life? Many did before Galileo. and some to this day even!
So its possible for an atheist to live not troubled by whether he goes to Hell or Heaven or some Afterlife. Does that mean he should go and commit acts of murder and rape, just because he does not have faith. by all means no. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Ickus, my last argument was a philosophical Tautology. It is always valid:
the argument is
G = There is a God
N = There is no God
(G or N),
~G
therefore N
or
(G or N)
~N
therefore G
see? so either of two things is true: There is a God or there is No God.
(I for one believe that there is a God though)
for the sake of the argument above:
let's explore the possibility that there IS a God. well if such is the case, then I hope that He's capable of mercy to such an insignificant and miniscule individual such as myself. If God is the God described in the Bible, then happy day ! I don't think being a God-basher wouldn't help convince Him for mercy though. What do you think?
let's explore the other possibility, there is No God. then life goes on, live as you want it, you become a wrinkled, fragile and unattractive old person then you die, you decompose, your coffin decomposes as well, your components seep into the ground or sublimizes into the air, then plants use it. In short, in the end it's like you never existed.
when your sons/daughters die maybe your grandchildren will remember you and when the latter die, maybe your great grandchildren will remember you.... and so on and so forth, with each new generation having less and less probability of knowing who you were...
in short: oblivion.
see? that's the argument expanded. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." Last edited by IVI on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:02 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 am Post subject:
well like I said in the other thread, everything can be doubted, and in all rights should be.
Someone can sit in a corner doubting everything, the air they breathe, the food they eat, the ground they walk on, but they are forced to have the faith that these things won't bring them to failure - or else they'll starve looking through every microbe of every cell to find a potential flaw.
That's no way to live..but on the other hand it would be ridiculous to trust everything in blind faith, expecting it to all be perfect.
The Bible creates a solid moral goal, and a guide to practice self-improvement, and many (including myself) have gotten a ton of benefit from it.
There are doubts on it, and many questions unanswered, but what matters most is how it improves the life of the one practicing it _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
and to further answer some of your other arguments Ickus,
1.) yes, Jesus has many good teachings but I did not deny that confucius or siddharta or mohammed also had good teachings.
example (as a personal POV): our family tries to incorporate some of confucius' proverbs too. as many of his sayings are basically just practical living tips.
it can work well for atheists too; they don't have to chow down the whole thing. but they will find that there is much that can be useful in the sayings of wise men.
2.) true; but again, for the sake of the argument, let's take for a moment that God does exist. then do you think that all the insults and offense an audacious insignificant individual makes will be let off easy by the [lightningflash][drumroll] Creator of the Universe [/drumroll][/lightningflash]? I'll bet He won't. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Ok. gotta split this topic way off the course of the movie topic.
1. IVI, man your arguing over What ifs? For all we know "God is a spoon!" and we all know there is no spoon. ..and the cake is a lie!
-If there was a creator, I definately would believe it not to be the one mentioned in the Bible. Probably not even an entity at all but forces that act beyond human understanding which is why religion was created and science has cleared up...the chagrin of many religious folk due the loss of power.
People interpreted the natural world to gain better understand of our existence. It is our nature to dwell upon the being and the meaning of very complex notions and ideas.
Hell, maybe "God" has an awesome prize waiting for each Atheist in the end. citing good job in not believing all that hokey. You never know, maybe the bible was made to test our lack of faith. and we get to be reborn as a unicorn fairy in another dimension. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
it's not a simple "What If" question Ickus,
it's a philosophical tautology; valid in its essence. . and the purpose of my existence is something I consider worth knowing. which is why I take it seriously. but you're right, we've strayed too far from the original topic anyway, but w/e.
and "maybe" may be another way of saying "what if" mind you. _________________ "War.... war never changes....." QUICK_EDIT
Probably not even an entity at all but forces that act beyond human understanding
The 2nd and 3rd books cover that, whilst there is a God, he is merely ruler of the kingdom of heaven, dictator of the afterlife as you will, neither is he immortal. The 'creator' is matter itself, that is what helps Lyra understand the alethiometer, and what/who Doctor Malone communicates with on her machine, they are the 'beings' that can be seen through the amber spyglass. (if you havent read the book there is no point even trying to understand). QUICK_EDIT
they can't transform into cars and robots, there are no explosions and energon cubes, boooring *spam* _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
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The Golden Compass
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Which choosing the latter each time, would make one very very stressed out person.
! I don't think being a God-basher wouldn't help convince Him for mercy though. What do you think?
. and the purpose of my existence is something I consider worth knowing. which is why I take it seriously. but you're right, we've strayed too far from the original topic anyway, but w/e.
*spam*
