Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:38 am Post subject:
And this is the DRM that will come with RA3.
Subject description: Some lovely videos about the latest SecuROMs. Major sarcasm included.
I've been checking the C&C community forums and all the repercussion of the Red Alert 3 DRM annnouncement. The level of satisfaction at the current version of SecuROM is very high and I've seen a lot of users happy with it. So, I've browsed youtube to take a look at how users from other games that use this same SecuROM thinks about it.
So, first of all, let's start with a nice introduction from the fans from The Sims 2 and its vast amount of expansions. Apparently, this fan also likes Star Wars:
Now, this fan from FEAR uses a lot of swear words to show his excitement about SecuROM on his game, specially for those who have 2 DVD drives.
Note: This movie is not recommended for kids.
And now, for those wondering what will happen when you have to install your 6th copy of Red Alert 3? This video shows this lovely moment with Mass Effects:
But, hey! We can talk to the uber EA support to sort our problems!!! Buddy, check out Spore's website. Select the United States as language (I tried Brazil originally, but it had no Help in the menu). Once you are there, click on Help, in the top right. Now, look for the technical questions and share with us how long do you take to figure out how do you ask help for EA's support to rescue your overused key? If you manage to find out how to do it, convincing them to help you is very simple mission, of course.
What a happy world, isn't it?
There are other videos that may talk about it, but they are even worse than the second video and it is not worth posting them here.
Anyway, are you ready to rent Red Alert 3 for $50 bucks? Or is there a way to change that? I wish EA could be more sensitive about this subject. Last edited by Banshee on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:08 am Post subject:
...-sigh-
Just like the media. Spin, spin, spin.
No, Banshee, I am not ready to rent Red Alert 3 for $50.
I am ready to BUY Red Alert 3 for $50.
Renting implies that I use it for a set amount of time and then return it.
Buying implies that I use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it.
Anywho, I have one thing left to say about this.
QUICK, SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAAMBULANCE! _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
...-sigh-
Buying implies that I use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it.
Of course you get to use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it. Right up until when they shut down the activation server and the game stops working the next time you install it. Ergo, it's more like a rental. _________________ WOL nick: migtybob
...-sigh-
Buying implies that I use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it.
Of course you get to use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it. Right up until when they shut down the activation server and the game stops working the next time you install it. Ergo, it's more like a rental.
It's not really a rental either. It's more a James Bond esque 'This product will explode in 4 installs... 3 installs...'. QUICK_EDIT
So don't buy it until they release at least an install revoke tool like Bioshock
I've never, ever pirated a PC game in my life but things like this are pushing me to seriously consider it.
I'd like to encourage everyone to post their displeasure in the EA RA3 forums in a new thread (so someone sees every single complaint instead of them hiding in the same thread) and hopefully they'll at least remove the restrictions if enough people complain. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:48 am Post subject:
[rant]STOP WHINING!!! As long as you don't change pc's 5 times with this game, everything is fine! Sorry for this, but I'm getting fed up with "EA this" and "EA that". Be f*cking happy they still continue or beloved series [/rant]
Dutchy out. QUICK_EDIT
Sorry, but everyone is right, there is such a thing as copy protection and so. But this is too far, its moving from copy protection into user limitations.
I could kill this limit in a year, im always reinstalling my OS, getting new hardware, making major updates and so.
EA needs to compensate this, or its really not gonna go down well... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:15 am Post subject:
Hyper wrote:
I could kill this limit in a year, im always reinstalling my OS, getting new hardware, making major updates and so.
Sorry to say Hyper, but do you have eyes? Read the other topic and it clearly says that re-installing your OS doesn't matter for DRM, as long you don't change your whole pc so it's completely new... I've had enough with this EA bashing (even though I don't like the lack of KW support )... QUICK_EDIT
Guess what Dutchy - I've had more than 5 PCs (whole PCs, aswell as several occasions where I've upgraded one or two pieces in an existing PC) since Red Alert came out, does that mean I should have to put myself before a committee just to install a game I paid for?
If it affected piracy at all, even the tiniest bit, I'd put up with some awkwardness (like CD keys, unlimited internet verified installs, even limited installs with a revoke tool) but the fact of the matter is it does absolutely nothing but make an illegal version of the game more attractive than the legal version aswell as make the hackers feel they've achieved something.
Don't be such a moron.
PS. It's not EA bashing like it normally is, it's SecuROM bashing and unhappiness at EA's decision to use the intrusive and ineffective SecuROM system. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject:
Mighty BOB! wrote:
EVA-251 wrote:
...-sigh-
Buying implies that I use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it.
Of course you get to use it for an unlimited amount of time and keep it. Right up until when they shut down the activation server and the game stops working the next time you install it. Ergo, it's more like a rental.
I'll never come to that scenario. By the time the activation server is down, I won't be playing RA3.
And if I want to reinstall after that happens, too ztyping bad for me. Hopefully I won't have to wipe my computer before then. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Some of us still like to play RA1 and TD. That's 13 years.
I would be irritated if TD didn't work. _________________
[quote="Lt A1br3cht"]Kill it with fire!!!!!!!!!!![/quote] QUICK_EDIT
I agree. This system is going to end in tears. If I pay good money for a game, I expect to be able to play it a decade or so from now. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject:
Daz wrote:
EVA-251 wrote:
And if I want to reinstall after that happens, too ztyping bad for me. Hopefully I won't have to wipe my computer before then.
And you're happy about that?
Some people's reluctance to object to this astounds me.
"too ztyping bad" implies happiness?
No, it means I am willing to accept the fact it is just a game, and it is not worth crying over not being able to play it. Its a small $50 investment, and if I get to enjoy myself over the course of 4-5 years, than it was a good investment.
Time reserved for RA3 then could be allocated to retro games, such as Doom or RA2/YR. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject:
Whatever... If I here you guys you will only play the game for a few months and then play the old games again, so why whine about DRM? Yes, this is meant sarcastic QUICK_EDIT
I'm not buying it, there's a chance I would have to see what it was like once the price had fallen to about £20-25 and all the "pr0 g4m3rz" had moved on, but this DRM kills it, whatever happened to the good old days when you bought a disk in a box, put the disk in your PC, installed it and then could play? Piracy is a symptom not a cause, this is like the olden days of surgery where they bled people to treat illnesses, ironically this made them weaker and caused the doctor to drain more blood, this is the same, piracy is alive so more DRM is introduced, this fails os even more is heaped on untl the normal user can't take it any more and joins the pirates. piracy is a sign this is happening. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Location: Mixing psilocybin in your drinks.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject:
How about this, if you're well aware of your hardware situation (changing the core system components often), fight yourself on deciding if you're going to take the risk asking support to re-activate you after x amount of times you upgrade the system or buy a new one, or just, I dunno, don't buy the game? If you're complaining that much about the DRM, it probably isn't worth buying unless you'd like to risk EA support. In other words, I support Dutchygamer's posts regarding this. _________________
[quote="DCoder"]There is no sanity left in this thread.[/quote] QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Location: laptop? ... otherwise the Czech Republic -> south Moravia Posts: long int Posts;
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject:
My hope to cracks on this stupid system. That's modern capitalism, without outer enemy let corporations to rule... Probably one of the best western regimes is in Switzerland or in Scandinavia, one of the worst in USA (arresting humanitary workers for plans of anti-republican demonstration as terrorists).
DRM is just way to bring more money from users... _________________
Don't blame the others if you haven't checked your own (in)ability in the first case. QUICK_EDIT
Complete control over how and where you use product.
PURCHASE:
Three to five installs depending on game. For any more you are required to contact EA who can give you more at their own discretion. Even with a proof of purchase they are not required to give you any more installs at any time, they can quite happily tell you to ride their shaft and go buy another copy if they so wish.
Internet connection required to play the game, even in single player modes.
You never have any control over your own product as changing your own hardware too much can invalidate your activation.
Now, which is better for the consumer? If you don't see the problem here you are probably retarded and I advise seeking aid from a medical establishment before you become incontinent. Last edited by Suiseiseki on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:07 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Do you realise how many times I've had to install RA2/YR due to modding issues or just for coming back to the game after a long time? What if said computer updates or something then you use up all 5?
"Ok sir I need to know if you're not using a pirated copy! You must tell me the CD-key in full!"
"A-B-C-D-E-F-G"
"Sorry sir it won't go through, we can't accept what you're asking from us, could you say that again?"
Having being convinced initially to buy Spore to see the game and online features I'm actually considering selling it/returning it unless they come out with a patch (to fix major bug issues and AI) and the removal of DRM. Have you seen the Amazon listings for Spore? A former Maxis employee said "this is degenerating into a PR nightmare, Spore should have been revolutionary for gamers, EA and Maxis to benefit all of us". Hopefully the anti DRM movement around Spore as well as the figures for their game will make EA think twice for implementing RA3's DRM.
In my opinion I won't be getting RA3 because to me it isn't a good game, the sides to me just feel generic and uninspired. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: Defiance Industries HQ, Antarctica
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:23 am Post subject:
Sigh, a world of capitalism leads to this... Anyways, if RA3 does not work when I get it, well First tell EA, (but not do what they say just tell them my system and that it has failed at x point) then if after one more try on my own, I will just have to get a crack... Yeah I am not all to happy about the DRM, and really... I just would like to see it all go to hell, really the security stuff is BS and well like the guy said in the second one, it is all just screwing over the guys and gals who bought it... Well our dollars are monartary votes we say no to something for a while (aka Boycott, which will never work with just a group of internet people) the industry will either go down in flames like it rightfully should if it continues on this track, or they will figure it out, they are royally screwing the consumer... I bet in a day or two after RA3 is released there will be a crack for it, if not within hours of its release.
-Kurorahk- _________________ Defiance Industries: We prefur to call it well prepaired not over kill.
Blaze, Demon of The Round Table, Mobuis One call me what you want I am one with the sky. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:47 am Post subject:
Well this is what I'm going to do, buy the game, down load the crack and if EA tells me to stuff it after 5 installs I'll use the crack. _________________ Last edited by Gun Ship on Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:42 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
At the official EA forum, there is already has a 29 page long rant about the DRM in Red Alert 3.
I'd say those community site where people are happy with DRM are mostly filled with uncritical youth / fanboys, that don't yet know what DRM actually means for them.
I haven't bought a game for some time now (not pirating, just playing open source /old games or not playing at all), mainly because I feel these days they don't give me enough value for the money, but I was considering buying RA3, until DRM that is. That's -1 customer from my side. QUICK_EDIT
Is sad but EA don't my money for playing my favorite C&C saga, I can't understand it... I'm a consumer, not a criminal :-/
Spore is an example of how can't be applied a copy-protection, check Spore in Amazon website and you will see the boycot on the rates ( Spore has only 1 start of 5 ). I like play games under Steam by how they protected them & the transparency for the gamers. Why not release a RA3 version under Steam? just joke, but could be good lol
Totally agreed with Suiseiseki. In Spore is a game that pirates can play fully without stupid restrictions and sure that will happen in RA3.
Probably I'll play when a crack disables the malware that RA3 will install only to follow the history, but buy a legal copy? sorry but I don't buy malware/ trojan horses, I never did that and RA3 isn't an exception. That kind of malware can't be run under linux with wine :-/
I'll buy it, as always, when they change the copy-protection system by another less intrusive, like they used in C&C3 / KW. _________________ C&C:Reloaded > GDI, Nod, Allies, Soviets & Yuri... & TS terrain!
[ Discord ] [ ModDB ] [ YouTube Channel ] [ Telegram Channel ] [ Official Forums@Revora ] QUICK_EDIT
BLA BLA BLA! so mutch text my brain is going to explode. Can someone tell me in short wtf is going on with RA3? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
You can install 5 times with a nazi-style security system stricter than a Division of Waffen SS troopers...
If you un-install it doesn't let you have that back so you can re-install on the same PC as long as you don't change the ?OS or too much of the hardware.
In short: Don't buy it. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject:
To all: have eyes? Use them FFS...
The other topic says that you can reinstall the game unlimited times on the same pc, as long as you don't change your pc's hardware too much.
Received and understood I hope? I'm sometimes thinking that the average IQ on PPM has severly dropped because of sheer stupidity... QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject:
Dutchygamer wrote:
To all: have eyes? Use them FFS...
The other topic says that you can reinstall the game unlimited times on the same pc, as long as you don't change your pc's hardware too much.
Received and understood I hope? I'm sometimes thinking that the average IQ on PPM has severly dropped because of sheer stupidity...
Hmm... yea, so we'll stay with our current computer when future games require cpus with 8 cores, GeForce 20 and 128gb of RAM, etc? Meh... in few years, you, as gamer, will certainly need to update your pc.
Also, SecuROM is not reliable at all. The Red Alert 2 one already changed for some modding changes. Also, several things that are beyond our knowledge may trigger a new install of the game and might make your key expire, specially when you reformat your pc (which many people does).
And, finally, as I said in my news post, however, the sarcasm may have tricked many people. It is very hard to get EA support to actually re-enable your key. EA's support site is confusing and complex by default and their support techs were trained to advice you to buy a new copy of the game once your key expires, even if Chris Corry says otherwise. EA support is made on many EA campus around the world, which are beyond EALA's control and they are mostly trained to optimize profits. QUICK_EDIT
I aint going near it, period. Everything that can be said has already been said all over the place, including the official forums, and I agree with it all.
Of course, nobody knows what the future holds, but to see what is likely to happen with RA3 you can look to the past and follow the pattern. So here's my prediction, based on the history of the C&C franchise under EA's direction;-
- sales of the game are at or slightly below expectations due to the issues raised, but it does not top the charts or become a best seller;
- the game will require a patch within the first week for some showstopper bug;
- the game will require a patch at some point to address other issues includuing some that were introduced by a patch;
- the game will at some point require a third patch which will include an extra map;
- there's a tech support nightmare because their customer care sucks and they get flooded with problems about the game/DRM etc etc;
- the net code is crap and there are frequent complaints of server issues and disconnects;
- the game is not balanced and there are numerous flame posts to this effect on the official forums;
- features are held back so they can milk more out of us through an x-pack.
Putting all that aside, if you suspend yourself from all the marketing crap surrounding the game and get over the initial buzz that you are playing a Red Alert game again, having played the BETA there was one overwhelming impression I got from RA3 - it's nothing much more than an elaborate mod (albeit professionally written) for C&C3.
We have Allies where GDI were, we have Soviets where NOD were and we have the (now obligatory) 'quirky' side where Scrin were. We have different maps and sounds, different images for the units, but we essentially have the same game. EA have turned the C&C franchise into the same, repetitive, churned out crap that Madden NFL and The Sims are. QUICK_EDIT
We have Allies where GDI were, we have Soviets where NOD were and we have the (now obligatory) 'quirky' side where Scrin were. We have different maps and sounds, different images for the units, but we essentially have the same game. EA have turned the C&C franchise into the same, repetitive, churned out crap that Madden NFL and The Sims are.
I'd like to point out that is the same with every Tiberium Universe-Red Alert pair
the Tiberium Universe game is basically the serious game, and is the first use of the engine
the Red Alert game then uses the same engine with some improvements and features and some stuff cut out, and is somewhat less serious/storyline driven. _________________ Micro TS
Portable, no campaign, movies or music, just the engine and needed resources for skirmish and lan. QUICK_EDIT
I'd like to point out that is the same with every Tiberium Universe-Red Alert pair
I partially agree, because the first time round this was true. Where we are now however is continual regurgitation of the same engine with different graphics and no real innovation or fundamental change, hence the analogy of The Sims. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:
Lt A1br3cht wrote:
You can install 5 times with a nazi-style security system stricter than a Division of Waffen SS troopers...
If you un-install it doesn't let you have that back so you can re-install on the same PC as long as you don't change the ?OS or too much of the hardware.
In short: Don't buy it.
Godwin's Law.
Drama level in this thread is dangerously high...
GOD DAMNIT, WHERE IS THE ztyping WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!!?!! _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) Last edited by EVA-251 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Banshee,
I had to be a pedant; it's pretty easy to contact EA Customer Support (see attachments).
However that doesn't mean I agree with having to contact EA to play a game you legally own a license for. Hopefully you won't have to give any more information that in my screenshot too.
support1.jpg
Description:
Visit http://support.ea.com and click Contact Us
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191.79 KB
Viewed:
17923 Time(s)
support2.jpg
Description:
Enter your email address and password
Filesize:
124.48 KB
Viewed:
17923 Time(s)
support3.jpg
Description:
Choose the game and enter the information
Filesize:
162.26 KB
Viewed:
17923 Time(s)
_________________
Webmaster of - [CnCWorld]
Webmaster of - [CNC Community] QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject:
Interesting, it is really easy to contact them.
But I'm still wondering about what kind of the reply you would get with this request. I guess they would at least request your key, or I'm wrong? QUICK_EDIT
I read this thread quickly so I may have missed any comments on this, but has anyone noticed the following quote from that 29+ page thread on the EA official forums:
Quote:
You will be able to install and play on up to five computers. If you uninstall the game while connected to the Internet, the entitlement will be preserved and that install can be transferred to a different computer.
So, am I to understand the following situation to be true? If I use my first install, leaving me with 4 remaining, on one PC. Then, I decide to upgrade, reformat, buy a whole new PC, etc. I remember to uninstall RA3 while connected to the internet before moving on to reinstall it after performing one of the above mentioned tasks, the end result is that I now have it reinstalled but still have 4 remaining installs because EA "credited" me.
If this is true, it seems to reduce those suffering from the DRM to those without any internet connection in the first place. Those who reformat or upgrade often may not have as much to complain about.
I admit I haven't read further than the first 2 pages of that thread on the EA forums, so I don't know if there's any complications. I'll take another glance when I have more time. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:02 am Post subject:
Ragnarok, you've missed a post from Chris Corry later on that topic:
Quote:
Quick update. As many conversations as I’ve had about this, it turns out I got an important detail wrong so I need to clarify something important.
An uninstall does not return the entitlement to the user. I’ll be updating my original post to reflect this.
Only five unique machines can be licensed with the same installation code. So you will be limited to a total of five machine activations.
However, we will ensure that nobody gets left in the lurch. Our customer service organization is committed to granting additional authorizations on a case- by-case basis for those folks who have good reason to need additional installs.
I am really sorry about the confusion, guys. I asked several people about this and thought I had it down, but obviously didn't. Totally my bad.
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Location: Flying into hostile territory
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:28 am Post subject:
can someone find my a rusty rod and tell me where the EA jerks who came up with the scheme are? I'll be gone until they change their minds. Just ignore the screaming. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I think the key gets linked to your EA account, or you link it when you make one...
Yes this is true, hopefully they will be able to see your serial and won't have to ask you to provide it. _________________
Webmaster of - [CnCWorld]
Webmaster of - [CNC Community] QUICK_EDIT
I can't see them just handing them out to whoever asks though, wouldn't it be a massive loophole in the whole idea of limited installs? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You cannot post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
And this is the DRM that will come with RA3.
)...
Probably one of the best 
