Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:43 am Post subject:
Bugs, Issues, and Requests
Subject description: This is going to be big
hey, fellas. I'm White Wolf, dedicated Command & Conquer: Reborn forum member and Reborn Wiki lead moderator.
first off, let me say i love the mod. I've been waiting for a team to work on a full conversion of C&C3 to Tiberian Sun. while this isn't a full conversion (yet), it's a start.
however, there are some things that are biting at me, and I've taken the time to list some issues I've found in the mod
Bugs:
-correct me if I’m wrong, but GDI defenses do not seem to be able to detect enemy stealth units when scanning beyond Walls
-Ghostalker has trouble hitting moving targets, as in, he does not lead them and compensate for their movement before firing
-computer A.I. cannot negotiate walls and does not attack them most of the time
-aborting a hookup between an Ox Transport bought from the Airfield and a vehicle causes the Ox Transport to lose its ability to transport any future units
-infantry garrisoned in civilian structures close to Walls cannot fire over said Walls
-Avatars cannot fire over walls
-hell, nothing can fire over walls except defensive structures
-we must reevaluate our walls. 1. Enemy units are able to pass through walls, probably those constructed by hubs near already existing wall sections, and can pass through walls in general for some odd reason, and I have videos to prove these! 2. I liked the TS walls in their look. They appeared more solid.
-can we also fix the GDI sniper team? Spotters should never fire their rifles at a sniper's target. Spotters are supposed to spot, not shoot, unless they are under direct attack. Can we also fix the after-effect shot?
-though this is an EA bug, we should fix it: Nod rocket soldiers can fire rockets up through a bridge to a target above them, but in turn, targets cannot fire down through the bridge at targets below them
-though it is listed in the programming document I have been provided, the Scrin Warp Strike is not available
-a notation for the Warp Sphere providing the Reconstruction Drones Support Power must be added (I do not have access to this)
-As the Drone Platform no longer enables radar, the "Enables Radar" notation should be removed (I do not have access to this)
-when Advanced Avionics are enabled, the Banshee does not damage friendly Vertigos on force-firing or enemy Vertigos
-the Temple of Nod Computer Countermeasures power does not appear in the power sidebar when the Temple of Nod is constructed
-the Avatar can be passed through by Harvesters automatically on course to collect Tiberium
-newly-constructed Avatars are not cloaked by Disrupter Towers
-when the Stealth Tank is commandeered by the Avatar, the Avatar seems to phase in an out in split-seconds rather than remaining constantly cloaked, and the cloak is disarmed when the Avatar moves
-how many times can you upgrade the Avatar this time? It appears as though I can upgrade the Avatar with every available upgrade…or can you already do that?
-I have tested the Scorpion Tank's capabilities and found that the Dig-In ability does not improve the Scorpion Tank's armor (i.e. its resistance to rocket attacks when dug-in as when compared to its normal dug-out state)
-some Reborn Community members have reported that the Mammoth MK II is unstable (graphically) on rough terrain, and also cannot fire its SAMs at enemy aircraft attacking it from behind (whereas the SAMs should rotate to fire, the entire weapon rotates...slowly). Both of these I have confirmed
-Alt-tabbing the game to forcibly minimize it sometimes causes crashing after 3 or more alt-tab commands
-TITANS CANNOT FIRE OVER WALLS!
-troops cannot enter airborne Ox Transports purchased from the GDI Airfield
-Nod Emissaries can call in Transports even without the presence of the Air Tower...or was this deliberate? If it is deliberate, then the “Requires Air Tower” should be removed
-now that the Nod Operations Center can build the Venom Signature Generator, even when researching this ability, it is still not applied to the Venom until the actual Tech Center is constructed
-Nod Carryall purchased from the Air Tower cannot transport units
-in some cases, the Nod wall seems to be able to cut into the terrain (specifically on the first skirmish map)
-Even with the Air Tower present, the Scarab APC cannot call in an Air Transport
-ordering a Scorpion Tank to attack while it is in the process of digging in will abort the dig-in and reset the unit
-the Scorpion Tank fires twice in quick succession with its capacitor laser, but only does damage on the first shot
-has the AI been adjusted? I have a video of a particular battle on normal, but it felt like brutal. Constant spamming of avatars and Stealth Tanks by Nod forces, and Nod forces expanded to all four corners of the map
-occasionally, enemy A.I. Harvesters will jam themselves around one Tiberium Refinery, especially if there is a large number of Harvesters, and be unable to continue the refinement process
-Okay, it looks like the Ox Transport can carry vehicles (but only if you click the vehicle and then click the transport, not in Orca Carryall fashion. This creates the problem, however, that the Ox Transport will touch down on whatever it is flying over, regardless of whether or not it is a structure). However, the Ox Transport still cannot carry troops.
-When out of missiles and with the minigun upgrade installed, Orcas and Orca Bombers return to base rather than firing on the target, even if the target is an infantryman
-friendly vehicles, or Harvesters at least, can pass through the legs of the Mammoth MK II
-for some reason GDI Missile Squads, when prone and under fire, do not fire on enemy troops firing on them, and I have a replay to prove it. What happened?
-a Surveyor with a pathway already placed which intersects with a wall that has been recently constructed will pass through the wall as if it were not even there
-the GDI Rig is not transportable aboard Ox Transports purchased from the Airfield
-Nod infantry, rocket soldiers, and saboteurs can call in Air Transports even if the Air Tower is not available
-Commandos and Ghost Stalkers, when attacking the Mammoth MK II, do not use their C4, and rather use their assault rifles or rail guns -since the Construction Yards no longer provide radar, the "Enables radar" note from Construction Yard needs to be removed. -all Nod units can call in a Carryall without the presence of an Air Tower -it looks like the Subterranean Strike support power requires both the Nod Secret Shrine and Operations Center to be deployed, but the Scarab APC can be constructed right off the bat from the War Factory. If either the Secret Shrine or Ops Center is un-powered, the support power is cut off. Though this makes sense since the Ops Center is required for Black Hand and the Secret Shrine is required for Cyborgs, the support power should appear only after the Ops Center and Secret Shrine are constructed, otherwise, the Secret Shrine should grant this power. -since Cyborgs are mechanical, they should be affected by EMPs and Shock Artillery -the Beam Tank and Venom's Beam Reflector ability is not working. -some units, like the Nod Saboteur, Harvester, and Surveyor, can pass through newly-constructed walls. -the Scrin Devourer Tank deploys with a Conversion Beam already installed and does not require the Technology Assembler for the upgrade to be applied
Issues:
-GDI Rocket Soldiers positioned close to a Scrin Lightning Rod have their health bar turn orange, according to every player’s view -the Predator's rail gun cannon does not recoil when firing, but the Titan's rail gun does. As a rail gun does not need to recoil back to fire, can we stop having the Titan's rail gun recoil? It also looks odd when it recoils, sliding along its infrared sights -Ion Cannon discharge and destruction of targets should be instantaneous. Otherwise, it looks weird to have structures blow up a second after the Ion Cannon disappears. Refer to Tiberian Sun instant zapping and penetration effect -wall sections are being counted as units, and selling them increases your loss count. can we fix this? -walls reveal the shroud. I feel they should not.
-as the Nod Militant soldier has been redesigned to look like the Nod soldier from Tiberian Sun, so, too, must the Nod Raider Buggy and Attack Bike drivers be redrawn to look more like a Nod Tiberian Sun soldier
-Stealth Tanks are overpowered. It takes 4 Stealth Tank missiles to bring down...anything! Their original states were more well-balanced.
-is there a way to make the Barracks sentry fire on incoming enemy forces?
-Wolverine Gatling Gun barrels don't spin when firing (The Mutant Marauder cannons can spin.)
-images in toolbar of essence-added items appear blurry
-Titan fires its cannon before its cannon actually faces the target (so the round comes out the side of the barrel before it traverses all the way to face its target)
-can you make the Armory install a permanent waypoint? It always disappears after it is planted
-Cyborg minigun cannons don’t spin when firing
-Scorpion Tank description of “dig in” needs to be corrected for grammar
-Scorpion Tank needs to be corrected to have other units pass around it after its deployment from the War Factory (other units bought pass into it)
-the Scarab APC description needs to be corrected for grammar, and a notice of “Comes with Missile Squad” or rocket soldiers should be added
-Advanced Avionics description must be corrected for grammar
-why does the Banshee require the Tiberium Chemical Plant to be created? It never required the Waste Facility in Tiberian Sun
-Scorpion Tank driller roller should spin when digging the tank in and out of the ground
-Scarab APC subterranean attack description is spelled wrong
-the Scarab APC’s subterranean attack is instantaneous. Is there a way to add a time delay based on the distance traveled?
-Can we replace the dozer blades add-on for the Nod Tech Center with drills to signify the drill upgrade?
-Can we make the Scarab APC’s drillers spin when it digs in and out of the ground?
-for the Subterrain Strike ability, it must is spelled wrong (must be spelled Subterranean), and “Subterrain APC” should be replaced by Scarab APC in the description
-Scarab APC drilling mechanism description and attack need to be corrected for grammar and reworded in such a way that the drilling mechanism applies only to the Scarab APC (as in, “Enables Subterranean Strike –The Scarab APC can crush infantry and clear mines”)
-the beauty behind the Hover MLRS in Tiberian Sun was that they could pass over restrictive terrain such as water. However, they cannot pass over destroyed bridges which cross rivers here, or even large bodies of water
-the Juggernaut bombardment fires one shot. The Juggernaut has 3 gun barrels. Can we make use of them all?
-Orca Bombers lift fans do not spin
-the Orca needs an icon for a minigun upgrade being possible
-the Orca Bomber minigun icon must be corrected to state that the Orca Bomber minigun upgrade applies only to the Orca Bomber (i.e. “Equips the Orca Bomber with a minigun”) [It currently reads “Equipes the Orca and Orca Bomber with a Minigun”]
-unless Orcas are armed with smart bombs or JDAMs, I remember from Tiberian Sun that Orcas released their bombs in carpet bomb-like fashion to cover a wide area
-Orca Bomber miniguns do not traverse to fire on targets. Can we make them aim at their targets, then fire? Currently, they look straight ahead, and can fire on targets behind the aircraft
-Orca miniguns also do not traverse to aim at targets, but they do fire on targets only in front of the aircraft, which is how it should be
-there seems to be an invisible wall of sorts preventing the Mammoth Mark II from moving straight off the Dropship Command landing pad. Instead, it moves off to the side. Can we fix this so it moves straight off, and maybe even give it a waypoint?
-recommend that repairing walls and simpler reconstruction of walls be enabled instead of having to sell the entire wall section
-conjoined Ox Transport and Hover MLRS needs to be corrected so they don't appear to be directly on top of each other
-isn’t it provoking the idea of rushing with an elite unit so early to have Ghost Stalker ready immediately upon capturing a hovel? Why not wait until the Tech Center is built?
-In its toolbar display, the Hover MLRS “Call for Transport” ability needs “(Airfield)” added to the end of it
-“Equips” in the Orca Bomber minigun upgrade icon is spelled wrong
-the Cyborg Reaper was only available in Tiberian Sun when the Nod Tech Center was constructed. Let’s apply the same prerequisites here as well
-I’d like to ask for both sides that the MCV be available for construction only after the Tech Center is built, and that this be indicated in each MCV’s toolbar display
-Cobra Artillery toolbar display needs a space between “Call for Transport” and “(Air Tower)”
-I need an explanation of the Cyborg. The toolbar display reads “Strong vs. Infantry, light vehicle” and “die hard.” Explain the purposes behind light vehicle (perhaps it should be light vehicles) and die hard (by making Die Hard a researching upgrade provided by either the Tech Center or Secret Shrine)
-the time it takes between ordering the units inside the Scarab APC to fire and them actually firing is not instantaneous. It actually takes about 4-5 seconds for the weapons to engage
-the Nod Tech Center’s drilling mechanism description needs to correct “Subterrain” for spelling
-like the Juggernaut, the Mammoth Mark II husk should emit black smoke until recovered or destroyed -it appears the rounds for the Mammoth Mark II’s ball turret are coming out of only the right barrel -when halted to fire, at times, the Nod Cobra Artillery battery’s treads continue to spin. This may be due to adverse terrain, such as inclines or bridges -as the Nod Militant Rocket Soldiers’ rocket launcher is black in their icon picture, it should be black on the battlefield, not white -I feel as though the Cyborgs sway way too much when firing on enemy targets. They should be more focused on their targets rather than spraying wildly
Requests:
-can bridge repair structures be modified to look more like the bunker huts of Tiberian Sun?
-in the cutscene of the Stealth Tanks being destroyed by GDI defense towers in an arctic base, the RPG Tower fired twice in quick succession before reloading. It has two barrels. Can we make this happen?
-Ghost Stalker in Tiberian Sun was spelled “Ghostalker”
-can we modify the Orca to make it look more like Tiberian Sun?
-is there an intention to add an Orca Carryall?
-can we create the upgrade attachment for the Orca and Orca Bomber miniguns on the tech center? As in, the rail gun has a "building add-on," so let’s make one for the minigun (perhaps a giant Minigun)
-can we add a mini picture of the minigun on the Orca upgrade box?
-Ghostalker’s left hand needs to be slightly adjusted to appear that he is holding the rifle, not empty space below it
-it looks as though Ghostalker’s rifle discharge is not occurring at the muzzle, but just below it and in the center of the figure
-can we remove Ghostalker’s “Kill them.” And “Leave no enemy standing”? That was spoken by Slavik. Additionally, Ghostalker’s audio should be configured properly (as in, “Anytime” should be spoken only after he is given a move command)
-could we adjust the Mutant Marauder’s rifle sound? They sound too much like regular rifles. They ARE miniguns, you know...
-Ghostalker's veterancy rank is not displayed over the unit when selected
-in your Youtube video, there were two Mammoth MK IIs deployed. In game (1.1), there is only one, which is how it probably should be, but can we put up a notice on the Mammoth MK II saying “Only one Mammoth MK II may be built at a time”?
-is it possible we could add the Cyborg Commando?
-Cyborgs had an antitank cannon in Tiberian Sun cutscenes. Can we add this?
-Can we add gates as a buildable add-on to walls?
-Can we make the Nod Laser Turret sound more like the laser turret from Tiberian Sun?
-Can we enable the Cyborg Reaper to fire its infantry net?
-can we make Cyborgs’ legs blow off when they take critical damage, and then have that individual Cyborg lose his upgrade ability?
-can we add in other Cyborg death sounds, like when they say “System failure” or
“Malfunction?”
-Is there any chance of adjusting the Stealth Tank damage level, so it takes less than 4 missiles to bring down an Orca? It seems like they are overpowered.
-perhaps there is too much blood being shot out of the Cyborgs? The only human parts are the torso and the head. Check Eric Gooch's Cyborg render for more detail (http://www.cybergooch.com/pages/tibsunarchive/nodcyborg.htm)
-according to Eric Gooch’s renders, the cockpit on the Hover MLRS was mounted to the right side of the hull, not dead-center (however, this is the future, so I can let this slide. Center-mount also helps to balance the vehicle) (http://www.cybergooch.com/pages/tibsunarchive/mlrs.htm)
-the designation on the Dropship that shuttles in Titan and Wolverines is "EA6" ...Can we change this please, to divert away from Electronic Arts? Remember, these are the people who refused to give us the Titans and Wolverines Essence so graciously granted us
-Love the new Ion Cannon, but is there a way to make it actually descend from the sky, and to get the excess energy to ripple up and down its beam?
-Is there also a way to get targets of the Ion Cannon to explode the moment the beam impacts upon them, and not have that few-second delay between impact and explosion?
-Wolverines are small units. Can we make them transportable via Ox Transport?
-for ideas, perhaps one can make an upgrade to the Wolverine cannons, such as 25mm airburst rounds that do more damage, perhaps to targets inside buildings and do more damage to infantry in general
-Hey! Why was the original Command & Conquer commando’s audio files removed from the GDI Commando? Put them back in!
-I know people bleed when shot, but the GDI commando constantly spurts blood when in the red. Once or twice is good, but not all the time.
-this same issue happens when troops pass through Tiberium. Is there a way to avoid having them bleed in Tiberium, and perhaps spurt green to indicate Tiberium poisoning?
-are there plans to add Umagon as a sniper and commando, and the Mutant Hijacker?
-Fear Factory's "Terminate" is an appropriate song for the Mammoth MK II video on Youtube...perhaps we can have this song play when the Mammoth MK II is deployed?
-Can we make the GDI riflemen look more like the riflemen from Tiberian Sun? In Tiberian Sun, they were equipped with much more protective body armor (this includes the sentry walking on the Barracks catwalk)
-are there plans to add Tiberium Veins?
-is there a way to make Tiberium grow beyond its growth perimeter, as in, until it takes over the entire map? I mean, Tiberium is supposed to be overrunning the planet
-could we replace the GDI APC’s cannon sound (old RA1 APC sound) with that of the original C&C’s APC machine gun? Sounds more powerful that way
-I could work some serious magic with Photoshop with screenshots of this game, but I wish I could manipulate the camera easier to make it view horizontally across the ground. Is there a way to modify the camera?
-is there a way to stop Orcas on the landing pads from taking off when an Airfield is placed in close proximity to their own Airfield?
-perhaps “Heal In Tiberium” can be listed as an ability of the Mutant Marauder?
-in Tiberian Sun, GDI Power Plant Advanced Turbines could be built the moment the structure was built: there was no prerequisite. Can we make this the same here?
-could we add the Disruptor for GDI’s armored vehicles?
-can we add an animation to the Hover MLRS to have its missiles leave their launch tubes when fired? Same goes for the Orcas and their externally-mounted missiles
-Perhaps Ghostalker's rail gun can be modified to look smaller, more like how it looked in Tiberian Sun? _________________ EA Apologizes
Last edited by White Wolf on Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:39 am; edited 51 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:55 am Post subject:
Re: Bugs, Issues, and Requests
White Wolf wrote:
why does the Banshee require the Tiberium Chemical Plant to be created?
It's probably because the power of the unit requires that it be Tier-4. That being said it does sound weird that it needs, of all things, a Tiberium Chemical Plant.
White Wolf wrote:
is there an intention to add an Orca Carryall?
With the OX and Call for transport, I seriously doubt he'd do this, unless it's a cosmetic change to replace the model of the OX with a Carryall.
White Wolf wrote:
are there plans to add Tiberium Veins?
Wouldn't serve any purpose in a game where Nod no longer uses chemical missiles.
White Wolf wrote:
in Tiberian Sun, GDI Power Plant Advanced Turbines could be built the moment the structure was built: there was no prerequisite. Can we make this the same here?
In that case the Fusion Core and Liquid Tiberium Core will have to be available from start as well. Gameplay balance takes precedence over detail to accuracy from TS QUICK_EDIT
Call for Transport costs money, if you have free vehicle transports that are reusuable it's more cost-efficient... _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
if you have free vehicle transports that are reusuable it's more cost-efficient...
...and guess what does Tiberium Essence feature? That's right! V-35 Ox and Carryalls buildable from Airfield and Air Tower!
Granted they aren't free but they sure as hell are reusable. Honestly I'm surprised Carnius didn't already cut out the Call for Transport abilities... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:09 am Post subject:
yeah, except the ox transports and carryalls bought from the airfields can't transport troops, only vehicles, and even then, some vehicles that can be transported normally can't be picked up by the purchased transport (GDI Rig, Nod Scarab APC)
nod doesnt use chemical weapons? the hell they dont. the tiberium missile is a raw chemical weapon right there. thats what the chemical missile was of Tiberian Sun: straight tiberium (except they got it from weeds and extracted the poisons) _________________ EA Apologizes
yeah, except the ox transports and carryalls bought from the airfields can't transport troops, only vehicles
It should be codeable to allow them to transport troops. TWA also has a purchaseable Ox which can alternate between troop transport and vehicle airlift modes.
If Carnius doesn't intend to remove Call for Transport I'd suggest let the purchaseable transports be used for vehicles, while infantry will use Call For Transport, albeit at a cheaper price ($500 is daylight robbery IMO)
White Wolf wrote:
yeah, except the ox transports and carryalls bought nod doesnt use chemical weapons? the hell they dont. the tiberium missile is a raw chemical weapon right there. thats what the chemical missile was of Tiberian Sun: straight tiberium (except they got it from weeds and extracted the poisons)
The catalyst missile doesn't look like a chemical weapon to me, based on what I think it is, I suspect it's a high-yield explosive used to detonate Tiberium, sort of like a small-scale version of the Ion Cannon blast on Temple Prime. The Catalyst Missile does not release any harmful agents or toxins.
Closest thing to a Nod Tiberium Chemical weapon currently is probably the MoK Tiberium Trooper. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:35 am Post subject:
Well, that is a serious report White Wolf
From what I've read quickly I saw one thing that can't be fixed: the Titan firing before being turned. All units with a slow-turning turret have this: the Mammoth as a major example. This mostly happens when force-firing at a position. QUICK_EDIT
And Nod doesn't have chemical weapons?
Then why do they have a chemical plant?
To conduct their evil Tiberium experiments, like vapourising it to make an fuel-air explosive!
I miss the Chemical Missile too though. It'd be neat if the Chemical Plant had a Harvester dock for Harvesters to unload Tiberium, which fills up a little blue meter below the structure's health bar and when it's full, you get to launch a Chemical Missile from a silo in the structure... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:59 am Post subject:
Ah, I see what you all meant by "Chemical Missile," the missile which impacted into the ground, and left a Tiberium gas which lingered in the area before dissipating! perhaps the Tiberium catalyst missile can be replaced by this "Chemical Missile!"
our Commander Carnius has entrusted me with making corrections to grammar and spelling.
i will correct for spelling and grammar while upholding the framework set by the original programmers, and the mod team of course, to make the corrections professional.
i will get on that once i get done with this virus scan.
thank you for your trust in me.
hey! after reading the document, it looks like that the Disruptor was supposed to be added, but it seems to be missing from the mod! something to include in the next patch, hopefully! something along with, say, the Devil's Tongue? _________________ EA Apologizes
perhaps the Tiberium catalyst missile can be replaced by this "Chemical Missile!"
I don't think the idea of this mod is to become a TS clone :p
Besides the Catalyst Missile is a pretty interesting unconventional weapon. I want it stay.
White Wolf wrote:
Devil's Tongue
Right now the burrowing mechanic is akin to teleportation. I think the Flame Tanks might be OP if given the ability to burrow. Especially if cloaked (I'm already having tons of evil fun with cloaked burrowing Scarabs dropping Engineers in places. Love making the AI sell structures here and there) QUICK_EDIT
our Commander Carnius has entrusted me with making corrections to grammar and spelling.
This is the only thing i can´t handle by my own, your help is very appreciated
Quote:
the Disruptor was supposed to be added, but it seems to be missing from the mod! something to include in the next patch, hopefully! something along with, say, the Devil's Tongue?
Yes it will be added in next version along with Cyborg Commando. That is sure right now
No Devil's Tongue any time soon but if you put squad of black hands in to scarab apc you got one
Quote:
I don't think the idea of this mod is to become a TS clone :p
Valdes is right, I hope you do not misunderstand goal of this mod White wolf. I just want to add few thing from TS and make CnC3 real successor to TS. But considering all stuff I manage to put together there can be done something like "tib sun" edition of my mod which can be even more closer to TS. QUICK_EDIT
but the more TS-related material we can put in this, i think the more people which will play it
That depends on how it's implemented. Look at the Cyborgs. With them around the Militant Rifle Squad is almost obsolete now. Same for the Titan overshadowing the Predator Tank and the hover MLRS overshadowing the Pitbull. Unlike KW, there's no subfactions to allocate these units to so everything gets lumped into the main arsenal which leads to a problem with existing units being near-useless now that superior replacements have been added.
...and the amount of new units really shows. GDI has only one icon space left in the vehicles tab, and Nod is totally maxed out.
Plus now every faction gets an APC which kinda takes away faction diversity even more from a game where such diversity is already lacking.
(not to mention I don't like the Scrin APC, which is essentially a PAC tail with an Invader Fighter stuck to its back, though I do understand how hard it is to create a model from scratch)
If I were to suggest a new unit for Scrin (and this can be really hard since Scrin arsenal looks pretty complete right now) I'd probably suggest the Archon from the Tiberium FPS as a small-size squad using a smaller version of Devourer's laser, serving as anti-infantry and anti-tank role as opposed to Shock Troopers which are anti-tank, anti-structure and AA (with the upgrade)... though modelling and texturing such a unit might be a challenge...
Hmm... I just realised the smaller radar dish on the Dropship Command could serve as a good template for a Disruptor sonic turret. Size-wise it even already fits the Predator more or less (my earlier idea of Preds upgrading a sonic weapon instead of Railguns which go to Titan)
btw Carnius did you fix the Confessor garrsion bug? I notice the infantry model no longer shows up on the sides of the building when garrisoned (if EA fixed it I wouldn't know since I never really touched normal TW for a long time).
Also another note, since your Rifle Militants use the KW militant model, they'd look better with the KW militant portrait. The art style of the TS soldier used for the Militant doesn't suit the general art style for the rest of the units (and this applies to things like the cyborgs too) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:36 am Post subject:
i could challenge you on the Titan overshadowing the Predator, and likewise, the Cyborgs overshadowing the militants. In the beginning, both are needed, especially when considering the early computer rush. 4 Predators can hold off an early attack, same as militants protecting spikes and tech structures can pose an early deterrent to those who mindlessly send out unescorted engineers to capture the spikes.
and the hover MLRS is damn good as a tactical artillery piece (whereas the Juggernaut is strategic) and works great for taking down aircraft
can't we make more "icon" slots? I mean, if people can do full conversions and outright reprogram aspects of the game, i'm sure adding a few more slots is within the realm of the obtainable _________________ EA Apologizes
Yeah but what happens when you go past "the beginning"? Early game is a phase that won't last long once the tech tree starts to be climbed. Part of the reason why KW's Steel Talons never retained the Predator was precisely due to their Titan already assuming that role.
White Wolf wrote:
and the hover MLRS is damn good as a tactical artillery piece (whereas the Juggernaut is strategic) and works great for taking down aircraft
I see the Hover MLRS as a hybrid of AA and precision artillery (it's much more precise than Juggernaut). Compared to the Pitbull its only downside is no stealth detection (speed-wise the Pitbull is only slightly faster and both have AA). Maybe I'd feel the Hover MLRS is more distinct from the Pitbull if it doesn't have AA (think something like the MLRS becoming like GLA Rocket Buggy) that way Pitbulls can still serve a crucial role as AA support. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:25 am Post subject:
well, this is what happens when EA makes your strategy games. but at least its not a rock-paper-scissors strategy game like Endwar is (one unit per unit type = one tank for "tank class") _________________ EA Apologizes
Well if there's going to be more than one "tank" I'd like to see some diversity, preferably on the level of the differneces between say the Scorpion Tank and Stealth Tank. If you think about it, Westwood never gave GDI another tank to go along with the Titan in TS either.
I don't mind if TE's Pred and Titan start out similar in the early game (eg. both fulfilling the MBT role) but when their range and ROF are practically identical, and they even start getting the same late-game upgrades (both get Railguns) it starts to feel like you're having 2 things that do pretty much the same job which is why I was pushing for that idea to replace Predator railguns with a sonic turret. Otherwise I'd rather the (ugly) Predator get cut out entirely to free up icon space.
Regarding icon slots I don't know if the game can be modded to do that. Based on what Stygs has told me the engine isn't as customizable as you might think.
btw Carnius did you tweak the Juggernaut's attack? Its shells now seem to fly in a low arc even though the cannons still point parallel to the ground which causes the shells to emerge flying in a direction not parallel to the guns QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject:
oh, they always did that, and it annoyed the hell out of me. you know what else about the juggernaut pissed me off? a "barrage" is one shot! You've got 3 damn 16-inch naval rifles for cannons! use 'em all! that's taxpayer dollars worth of ordnance you're not firing! (thank you EA!)
well, titans in TS were long-range siege units. if you remember, they could hit laser turrets from outside the turret's range. id love to see that here
you know, is there a way to add a machine gun to the predator, an antiinfantry coax-mounted machine gun, like with today's modern tanks? _________________ EA Apologizes
you know, is there a way to add a machine gun to the predator, an antiinfantry coax-mounted machine gun, like with today's modern tanks?
The MG found on the APC/harvester could be attached to the Predator...
As for the Juggernaut's firing, I may have to do some comparisons with normal TW but I'm pretty sure in normal TW the shells did not arc, but instead flew in a straight line towards the target. In TE I can confirm that they do arc a little since I checked the firing animation from a side perspective. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Location: Sarajevo, Bosnia & Herzegovina
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject:
Carnius wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the idea of this mod is to become a TS clone :p
Valdes is right, I hope you do not misunderstand goal of this mod White wolf. I just want to add few thing from TS and make CnC3 real successor to TS. But considering all stuff I manage to put together there can be done something like "tib sun" edition of my mod which can be even more closer to TS.
I like that idea about "tib sun" edition of your mod, but also I like tiberium essence as great mix of TS, C&C3 and custom made units. I have to say that tiberium essence gives great replay value to C&C3 singleplayer campaign. Too bad that there is no mod sdk tools for KW, it would be very interesting to play kw sp campaign with TE mod. QUICK_EDIT
btw Carnius did you tweak the Juggernaut's attack? Its shells now seem to fly in a low arc even though the cannons still point parallel to the ground which causes the shells to emerge flying in a direction not parallel to the guns
Yes I did. Its not perfect but still better than before. It can at least fly over small cliffs and walls. I never understand why EA left juggy´s shells fly straightforward, it looks so stupid.
Quote:
I don't mind if TE's Pred and Titan start out similar in the early game (eg. both fulfilling the MBT role) but when their range and ROF are practically identical, and they even start getting the same late-game upgrades (both get Railguns) it starts to feel like you're having 2 things that do pretty much the same job which is why I was pushing for that idea to replace Predator railguns with a sonic turret. Otherwise I'd rather the (ugly) Predator get cut out entirely to free up icon space.
Well this is really not easy decision for me. I agree that there should be more diversity between predator and titan but I must refused your idea upgrade predator with sonic turret (despite i like it) because i have working sonic tank already.
But considering your and White wolfs suggestion I see this two options.
1)Increase Titans weapon range by 33% which makes him a sort of assault/siege unit
Upgrade predator with additional machinegun similar to APC´s machinegun
2)Cut of predator from game and move Titan on his place as gdi main combat tank(mech). QUICK_EDIT
I never understand why EA left juggy´s shells fly straightforward, it looks so stupid.
The shells fly straight because the guns point directly forward. It's not like the TS Juggernaut where the shells fly in a high arc (like standard artillery).
If the shells were to arc, the guns need to tilt as well instead of remaining horizontal. The Juggernaut should be able to pitch its entire upper body to do so, seeing as how it has that anim when executing a bombard attack
Hmmm you already have a working sonic tank? Care to post pics of the models? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:05 am Post subject:
^ Now that would be a good solution. Downside of it is that it must turn the whole body instead of just the turret, and deploying takes longer. Also, it seems very hard to code it (I have failed at it), but then again, I'd guess you guys will find the solution QUICK_EDIT
The Juggernaut's turret can turn. You see it when it does its normal attack.
if it is possible to code the Juggernaut to pitch upwards and then turn to face the target (which is essentially what the Spectre artillery does now) it'll be alright. of course it has to pitch at the exact angle where the shells are coming out from (which is a very small angle) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject:
Valdez wrote:
The Juggernaut's turret can turn. You see it when it does its normal attack.
if it is possible to code the Juggernaut to pitch upwards and then turn to face the target (which is essentially what the Spectre artillery does now) it'll be alright. of course it has to pitch at the exact angle where the shells are coming out from (which is a very small angle)
I meant, if you use that anim/position, it can't turn it's turret, but must position the whole body to the target QUICK_EDIT
I meant, if you use that anim/position, it can't turn it's turret, but must position the whole body to the target
Yeah I understand the bombard ability will make the Juggernaut face its whole body in the direction of the target...
There'll probably be a need to rig some new anims to get it to be able to attack like this
That btw is a Juggernaut force firing somewhere and then given a bombard order while it is still force-firing. But the idea is there... to have the unit orientate itself to face a target and pitch its guns upward... Last edited by Valdez on Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
There shouldn´t be a problem implementing this, both re-using the bombardement animation and giving it a minimum pitch for attacking should work fine. _________________ Off Duty. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:03 am Post subject:
i dont know, id rather have it turn and face its entire body in the direction of the target
considering the 3 barrels are at least 16-inch Naval Rifles (the same cannons on Battleships, which are the biggest cannons in any military arsenal) with at least a 50-mile range, the bracing power you're going to need to stabilize your platform will be intense.
having the turret oriented other than where the braces are applied could collapse the entire unit from the muzzle concussion alone, much less the barrel recoil.
having the juggernaut turn its "turret" to face something other than what its body is facing is not realistic in terms of artillery, nor the C&C canon
refer to my Reborn Wiki post on the Juggernaut for further information (i wrote the whole damn thing)
oh, btw, the reason a titan costs more is because it can step on other units, like tanks...and apparently other titans! _________________ EA Apologizes
having the juggernaut turn its "turret" to face something other than what its body is facing is not realistic in terms of artillery, nor the C&C canon
Refer to my Reborn Wiki post on the Juggernaut for further information (i wrote the whole damn thing)
I understand the realism thing, but about C&C canon it's rather ambiguous since they do indeed face their entire body at the target in the unused mech attack FMV but in-game their turrets still did turn.
To make the Juggernaut more "realistic" would probably have to involve restricting the arc of fire to somewhere around 90 degrees, and that could severely compromise its in-game effectiveness (you can see how ineffective the mammoth is with Railguns that can only shoot forward). I don't knwo if such a restriction can be balanced by increased range or damage. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Location: Front line between GDI and Nod...and EA
Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject:
you know what? youre right. i do remember in-game they did turn their turrets 360 degrees.
after analysing the unused mechattack video (in which juggernauts destroy a Nod obelisk of light) I have been able to identify a turret ring housing in which the turret connects to the main body. therefore, based on the idea that each of the "three" legs can act as a brace no matter which direction the turret faces, it is plausible to have the Juggernaut traverse its gun barrels in turret-like fashion. this is permissible since the legs will trade responsibilities between acting as the rear brace and 2 frontal mounts depending on which direction the turret faces, so either way the unit will not collapse when firing.
in english, have it spin all it wants!
however, remember that this was the Tiberian Sun Juggernaut, which installed a third leg application. the tiberium Wars Juggernaut does not have this brace, and rather has 2 bracing suppport panels installed to the backside of its legs. _________________ EA Apologizes
But considering your and White wolfs suggestion I see this two options.
1)Increase Titans weapon range by 33% which makes him a sort of assault/siege unit
Upgrade predator with additional machinegun similar to APC´s machinegun
2)Cut of predator from game and move Titan on his place as gdi main combat tank(mech).
I have been enjoying playing your mod in Camapign mode, and only use Predators when the Titan is locked in early missions so if you replaced the Pred with Titan it would free up icon space for the Disruptor and make campaign mode more fun.
Of course it would be great if you than also replaced the PitBull thing (the APC and MLRS both have AA capability) with the other TS unit (Wolverine) as first unit.
This weakens GDI AA at the start of a game (have to spam APC+Rocketmen) and speed of scouting, but will be evened up with strength of Titan (including crush ability) and then multi-rocket power of MLRS. Late game the Mammoth and Disruptor may be a little OP unless the Cyborg Commando is going to be something like an Avatar in strength level...
If you wanted then to reduce scouting strength of NOD, replace the Militia with Cyborgs... QUICK_EDIT
Late game the Mammoth and Disruptor may be a little OP unless the Cyborg Commando is going to be something like an Avatar in strength level...
If you're talking Nod, Banshees can deal with a Mammoth (bout 4-5 will do nicely). Disruptors probably have even less armour than a Mammoth.
Regarding the lack of icon space, yeah it's unfortunate TE is getting saturated with units, especially on the GDI side. I agree with replacing Pitbull with Wolverine (can always buff the APC's anti air capbility to compensate). could always give Wolverines stealth detection to compensate for scouting weakness from Pitbull removal. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
I have seen where Nod harvesters will just sit there and do nothing unless you force them to move. I have seen Scrin and GDI with this problem as well but not nearly as bad as Nod.
Nod AI definitely is not nearly as good as Scrin or GDI in skirmish games. I am not sure what Nod is missing. Each time Nod is an AI player the Scrin and GDI AI always beat Nod out on number of kills,units made and resources gathered. QUICK_EDIT
considering the 3 barrels are at least 16-inch Naval Rifles (the same cannons on Battleships, which are the biggest cannons in any military arsenal) with at least a 50-mile range, the bracing power you're going to need to stabilize your platform will be intense.
having the turret oriented other than where the braces are applied could collapse the entire unit from the muzzle concussion alone, much less the barrel recoil.
having the juggernaut turn its "turret" to face something other than what its body is facing is not realistic in terms of artillery, nor the C&C canon
refer to my Reborn Wiki post on the Juggernaut for further information (i wrote the whole damn thing)
Seemed worth saying as you write this kind of stuff, that chances are a future weapons platform of this scale would house a recoil dissipation system similar to the Kriss SV (designed to send the recoil forces down, in this case into the ground and would also help keep the muzzle down during firing. QUICK_EDIT
I noticed one thing. When I played with nod and build scarab apc it wont execute subterranian power on certain places. The places are normaly flat, buildable and visible. QUICK_EDIT
is this a bug or a error?
a friend and i had this "bug" against KI GDI.
He shoots with his Juggernauts at our planes... and he hit them.
AA Juggernaut lol
When I played in single player,the NOD AI spammed artillery.
That would not be a problem if he didn't abuse a bug exploit: when an unit that can deploy do it at the rally point of the war factory,the next units can go under it.
The computer use it to make stack of 20~30 artillery,and it's REALLY effective: One Hit KO on mammoth mkII,or anything that would stop to fire (and since there are usually others things around to make your offensive slow down or stop to fire,boom!)
Would there be a way to make him build something else,or do something that would prevent the artillery to be used that way?
Another thing that was spammed were cyborgs.
The computer seems really happy to have a new units production structure,so happy that he keep it working 24 hours a day even when the others structures would stop.
If you add to that the fact that cyborgs are resistant to almost everything (at least all cheap base defense of GDI),the continuous flow of cyborgs can make a mission much more difficult.
Those are mainly problems of single player campaign,so maybe it's not a priority,but I wanted to write down about them.
I hope you will understand what I wrote (I feel like I had some trouble with finding the right words sometimes,english isn't my main language) QUICK_EDIT
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