Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:44 am Post subject:
waterfalls work. just try a map where the water isnt frozen :p
as for tunnels. they dont work at all. what you can do is put a bridge over the area you dont want the units to be seen ._. but its not a 100% fix QUICK_EDIT
Enough misinformation, the tunnel logic isn't broken and doesn't need a patch. It works fine, but you can't place the tunnel paths without altering the config file of FA2 by default. There are other problems though, the tunnel roof animations aren't placed properly and the tiles themselves have the wrong terrain type set in temperate and snow theatres so path finding might not work right and the cursor change to the enter cursor don't happen in these theatres. These problems are fixed in YR by the terrain expansion and I did have a mini expansion purely to fix this in RA2, but stopped supporting it.
Crevio... yes, you have badly misplaced those tunnel tiles, you need to use the entrance and exit tiles only once and the exit tile is hard to place unless you know what you are doing (and isn't obviously a tunnel because the room animation doesn't show in FA2). QUICK_EDIT
Well actually this is the only way to get them working in ra2, I've tried adding the [TunnelsTS] Debug and all that with FA2 but still no tunnel category. Im able to use train tracks and stuff and place the entrance and exit tunnel tiles but without the tunnel it is worthless QUICK_EDIT
Make them work? They aren't working there, you just have a load of passable tiles that don't go together properly and look s**t. Which version of FA2 are you running? You need FA2YR 1.02 IIRC. If need be, you could use information on how the [Tubes] section is constructed to manually set them using a text editor. You'll still need to dive in manually to do some fixing up anyhow as FA2 mangles it slightly.
I assume you mean you added [Debug] to FAData.ini and set AllowTunnels=yes? You did switch off beginner mode yes? QUICK_EDIT
Currently using FA2 1.0.0.1, also have original FA, got it today cause it has the tunnel menu in it, but boy i tell ya it must of been a pain in the arse using that version, wooooo doggy. And yea that stuff was added to FAData.ini, beginner modes been swsitched off since day 1. QUICK_EDIT
There is a fixup tile in the tunnels set that will make the front look better. I'll also build you a mix that fixes the tunnels enter/exit tiles to give the enter cursor for RA2 when I get round to it if you want, so long as you take charge of supporting it if you pass it around.
You need to get hold of FA2YR 1.002 or whatever version is was after the one you actually have, that is the one with tunnel support. Best of both worlds. QUICK_EDIT
I downloaded ver 102 last night, its the ver that helped me to make the tunnels, however Im not sure if they deleted the tunnels again cause i had to add a different FAData file to it. The only tunnel set i see is the front and rear tiles, no fix up tiles, and yes please make mix for me and yes ill take charge of supporting it. Thank you for your help, very appreciated
Im currently working on a tutorial that will be made easy for everyone QUICK_EDIT
The FAData supplied by default disables the tunnel feature because it only works right in urban by default. The set you are looking for might be tunnel sides or something. QUICK_EDIT
yea, i wasnt paying attention, i see i have all 3 tunnel files, Tunnel floors, dirt tunnel floors and the tunnel sides, all work just fine, although i have heard and tried to do curved and multi angle tunnels, they failed miserably, so im guessing those would have to be done manually in the map file, not sure. I'll keep working on that.
As for the water fall animation, i still cant figure it out, i tried urban and temperate. must be a script or something to make it work, i dont know QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject:
Well, guess what, I had a little chat with Icy, who mentioned this as 'one of the major failures of PPM'. He knows how to fix it, but he doesn't want to share because he doesn't like helping n00bs, nor isn't interested anymore into the RA2 engine because his mod moved on to RA3. Also, he said something like Blade was wrong or at least missed something.
Short said: the person who probably knows it, doesn't want to help. QUICK_EDIT
Blade was wrong about what? Nothing that i know of! what he told me was fine, all my tunnels work great. yes they dont have the cursor in temperate like it does in urban but so what , the units still go thu them just fine, as for the multi angle tunnels thats a whole different story.... those are just a headache waiting to happen so i wouldnt even mess with it. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Location: >THE< United States of America
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject:
Do you have terrain expansion v2.02a? Even though tunnels are fixed, there is still no way to edit them with FA2. You can only place them with FA. You just edit them with a text editor. It's pretty complicated.
As for bendy tubes, I've been doing some work with those... I've gotten two of the three tubes working. But, for some reason, even though the tubes show up correctly in FA2, whenever you save the map, tube 3-6-9-etc. gets deleted when the map is saved. If you force it to exist by editing with a txt edit, the game gets screwy and won't load. This only happens with curvy tubes though. And, I'm not even talking about super curvy, just one bend!
And, as for the waterfall... The waterfalls don't run on arctic. They are supposed to be frozen. QUICK_EDIT
Terrain expansion does resolve this (no enter cursor and I believe poor path finding through tunnels that are not straight), though I do believe there is (or was) something wrong with the tiles I produced that caused the terrain to be treated incorrectly somehow. It was discussed ages ago on c-gen which is sadly no longer with us, but I don't recall if DJBREIT fixed it or if MetalMario was going to fix it in an uncompleted addition to the TX. FA2 will make a best effort attempt to make bendy tunnels, but to get a really good finish you need to edit them by hand. One of many reasons FA2YR is not an ideal editor for expanded RA2 or even vanilla YR.
Dutchy, did you have a point beyond making Icy look like he's a cock? At least give me a clue as to what specifics I got wrong or incomplete if something needs fixing.
I'm sure warterfalls work fine in temperate even in RA2? QUICK_EDIT
Im just running plain old RA2 no terrain expansions, no ini file changes, except for FA2 of course...Like I said my tunnels are working fine, units dont get stuck or anything. I dont really care for a bendy tunnel because ive tried and are a b--ch to make, I'll just take what i got.Thanks guys,
As for the waterfalls i made it on all 3 terrains and no animation on either of them, So I'm guessing the animation has to be added to art.ini and be placed manually in map file or something, but yea if anyone knows how these waterfalls work in RA2 i am all eyes
Whats this TX, is that just short for text editor? QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Location: >THE< United States of America
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject:
No, it's the abbreviation for a neat little terrain expansion. It only works for YR, I think. But, hey, I figured out why my bendy tunnels weren't working. So, if you ever want bendy tunnels, you could send me your map(With the tunnels in place of course), and just tell me which ones you want connected, and I'll do it... I need the practice, as I want my mod to use TX!
If you like mapping and YR check out TX v2.02a. It has all kinds of crap. From trains and tracks, to new terrain, and even a fix to make tunnels look and work better(As Blade said. It fixes them so that they show the enter cursor). QUICK_EDIT
yea i will be moving to YR shortly, but i wanna finish my ra2 mod first, and also im trying to create a mission disk sorta like an expansion disk for ra2, im not to good with hex editors so its gonna be a while on that one. but i will get the TX for now just to have. See the problem i have is everyone keeps trying to get me to use this and use that, but my goal is to keep my maps online playable without everyone having to download and install certain things to play. Yea i no im limiting myself to certain things, but thats okay. My mission disk will be sweet though, cant wait till the day its done.
Now for the bendy tunnels, do i have to make like L shaped cliffs, i dont want to send you a map thats not for the making of bendy tunnels. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Location: >THE< United States of America
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:55 am Post subject:
You can. But, they don't necessarily have to be L shaped. You can have them hook and bend. They can connect offset tunnel exits. Don't worry, just make your maps, and if the tunnels don't connect with a straight line, that's when you would send it to me. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Location: >THE< United States of America
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:57 am Post subject:
I don't understand... Are you creating two sets of tunnel tubes and crossing them? Because, that's not how you do it. The units will just go straight out the other side of the cliff(Where the tunnel exit isn't placed.) You have to actually bend the tubes, so to speak. QUICK_EDIT
The blue path in your diagram is essentially what you are trying to achieve, yes. Actually doing it so it works correctly is the trick. Only mapper I know who did it was Cannis who wrote a tutorial on it. I believe that is now gone with all the rest of the info that was on C-gen. There are probably other mapper that have played around with it, but they either haven't made themselves known or don't feel like sharing. QUICK_EDIT
Shouldn't curved tunnels require nothing but a few edits in the [Tubes] section of the map (open it with a notepad)? Oh, and when you're at it, don't content yourself on making such sharp turns, and instead use at least two curves. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Apr 2009 Location: >THE< United States of America
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject:
Yeah, I can make them too. I don't think that they are that hard to make without a visual reference. You just have to know where you are going to and coming from. Once you get it, you can make a 19 or 20 cell tunnel, with like 4, 5, or 6 turns easy in a minute or two. I was going to post tutorials, but crevio beat me to the first one and already said he's making curved tunnels tut. So...
Oh, and one good thing I do. I took a screen shot of the map grid in FA2's grid mode, and I plan out my tunnels on that before I even place the tunnel entrance and exits! QUICK_EDIT
yea, Its actually quite easier than it looks, at first when i started looking at all the numbers i was like "what the F---", but then after I stared at it for a minute and figured out what number is for what direction it became common knowledge. all you really need to do is place your tunnel tiles and like you said Necro use the grid mode to count your squares... QUICK_EDIT
As promised, here is a plugin mix file that will fix tunnels in RA2 to have the enter cursor and such. I made this ages ago. Comes with two demo maps which I have permission from the authors to redistribute with the fix (one is a converted version of the TS map Sink Hole). This should fix the tunnel top artwork as well and is for RA2 ONLY!
Really? I didn't know the coordinate systems was reversed between RA2 and TS, never noticed that. As to where he got them I believe he made them, he did extensive work on the TX for YR. They were probably posted over at C-Gen ages ago. QUICK_EDIT
Very useful pics, but there's one thing I'd mention here. You don't need to have 100 numbers in the tube path number list, one "-1" in the end is enough, at least in TS. It's easier to read without that huge list. _________________
Twisted Insurrection's Lead Campaign Developer QUICK_EDIT
Really? I didn't know the coordinate systems was reversed between RA2 and TS, never noticed that. As to where he got them I believe he made them, he did extensive work on the TX for YR. They were probably posted over at C-Gen ages ago.
I am surprised you did not have a copy of this one.
Q45 wrote:
Very useful pics, but there's one thing I'd mention here. You don't need to have 100 numbers in the tube path number list, one "-1" in the end is enough, at least in TS. It's easier to read without that huge list.
I think you are correct. You don’t need all the -1. But test it out to make sure. This was made along time ago.
Also the Terrain Expansion for both RA2 and RA2/YR was made as an update for the game. So unless you were using a custom Terrain Mod you would use the Terrain Expansion to correct some problems in the game. It allowed you to play on-line with someone without the TX with maps made with the standard tiles.
For placing the tunnels “turn on” the marble mode in FA2 like you would do in TS. You do need the TX for that one. QUICK_EDIT
But this tunnel system requires you to make coords for both directions, IE you have two tunnel tiles, the game needs linkage so when unit enters Tunnel A he will emerge from B and vice versa?
So how about if you made Tunnel A link to Tunnel B if a unit enteres Tunnel A, but if a unit enters Tunnel B he emerges from Tunnel C?
I dunno, just a quick thought, perhaps i should research the Tube code... QUICK_EDIT
So how about if you made Tunnel A link to Tunnel B if a unit enters Tunnel A, but if a unit enters Tunnel B he emerges from Tunnel C?
I was wondering how long it would take someone to realize that.
You can also have a tunnel dump out on to its self and you can connect any tunnel to three other tunnels. You can drive players crazy. But the IA in the game will not be fooled. It will map out the shortest path throu the tunnels. Have fun QUICK_EDIT
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Waterfalls and Tunnels
