That whole half-assed story Westwood cooked up for C&C3 and beyond was disgusting to say the least. Kane a figure from the bible? Scrin Rebels and Scrin? Yuri just suddenly pulling a time machine out of his ass and going back in time and making RA2 as some attempt to fill in the plothole RA2 made? And the whole thing with the Forgotten as superheroes who could beat back the Scrin better than GDI or Nod, all while CABAL is in his South American Tiberian jungle making cyborg dinosaurs and reapers in a second bid for world conquest?
Its more zainy, ridiculous, and half assed then some of the newer episodes of Doctor Who. Whats next, a TARDIS, some daleks and Jack Harkness? C&C was doomed the moment those morons started penning those ideas. All of those insane Petroglyph ideas are what they sound like, shit. Its just an EA logo rather then a Westwood logo. Lets face it, C&C was screwed when this crap came around. QUICK_EDIT
C&C is still screwed with the policities how EA handles that game....god i really want to forget buying RA 3 uprising i really felt fucked by them...no one in this world ever has sold a game like that in that way before. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
yar, you know whats hard to believe? When EA said they wouldn't sell it in Stores, I saw a chinese version of Uprising at the local store... and guess what, no english version, BULL ztyping HORSE SHIT _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
That whole half-assed story Westwood cooked up for C&C3 and beyond was disgusting to say the least. Kane a figure from the bible? Scrin Rebels and Scrin? Yuri just suddenly pulling a time machine out of his ass and going back in time and making RA2 as some attempt to fill in the plothole RA2 made? And the whole thing with the Forgotten as superheroes who could beat back the Scrin better than GDI or Nod, all while CABAL is in his South American Tiberian jungle making cyborg dinosaurs and reapers in a second bid for world conquest?
I dunno about the dinosaurs and I can live with the stuff about the Forgotten but Westwood's idea of trying to link RA2 to the Tiberian Continuity = instant wreck as i mentioned on PF when I first heard of it there. Even EA hasn't wrecked the storyline to that extent yet. Sure they have plot holes but at least it's not shitting on the continuity by trying to have soviet Squids and the Ion Cannon in the came universe (I forbid anyone here to even think that could be awesome)
This is why in all my prior criticisms so far to EA's story approach, I never once uttered a single mention of "Westwood would've done better"... because they wouldn't have done any better in my eyes, assuming the idea for the whole RA2 link had gone official into their end product. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Volgin: Did you know? In teh Bible, at Genesis, Kane was the first guy who killed someone, and therefore was banished to the Land of Nod, I found this quite strange, and made me think that Brett Sperry was gonna make a connection with Kane and the Bible, but then, EA came along. _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
actually they sell it in stores....but only the DVD case with a download code in it, so i felt pretty fucked -.- _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
WTF? THATS ztyping HORSESHIT, ITS LIKE...LIKE....LIKE.....ztyping HORSESHIT!
EA: Buy our game! now in stores!
You: Woot! just got the game...*opens case*
EA: Please follow this instructions to downl....
You: WTF IS THIS BULLSHIT, DONT THEY KNOW I GOT SHIT INTERNET!? _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Volgin: Did you know? In teh Bible, at Genesis, Kane was the first guy who killed someone, and therefore was banished to the Land of Nod, I found this quite strange, and made me think that Brett Sperry was gonna make a connection with Kane and the Bible, but then, EA came along.
There already was a connection IMO. At least the speach Nadia gave in RA1 was pretty biblish. And obviously "from God, to Kane, to Seth".
Just remember the bible Kane was spelled Cain. QUICK_EDIT
And Brotherhood of Nod, Land of Nod (even if Nod means "to wander" in hebrew)...
If you look the story is so fileld with biblical references there are very few options as to where he came from.
Admittedly Seth is named after an Egyptian God, but the religious overtones are there. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
What makes me confused is...How long has Kane been alive? I mean, on RA1, he has been there, and up to C&C3 he has been there, I mean, even the cloning stuff wont change my mind that Kane has died and been cloned, there has got to be something to that.... _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
That whole half-assed story Westwood cooked up for C&C3 and beyond was disgusting to say the least. Kane a figure from the bible? Scrin Rebels and Scrin? Yuri just suddenly pulling a time machine out of his ass and going back in time and making RA2 as some attempt to fill in the plothole RA2 made? And the whole thing with the Forgotten as superheroes who could beat back the Scrin better than GDI or Nod, all while CABAL is in his South American Tiberian jungle making cyborg dinosaurs and reapers in a second bid for world conquest?
If you read my last post you'll notice I not once mentioned RA2... I personally chose to ignore RA2 and any of the plot that doesn't fit in with the original story (Westwood's story)... Westwood never intended to make RA2, so tome that's reason enough to simply ignore RA2's existance and if a C&C show would be made, I'm also pretty sure RA2 (and any upcomming RA's) would be ignored, rather than that some late episode would make up an excuse for RAX's existence.
In my opinion any biblical references in C&C aren't to be taken literally... C&C is fiction and even the references to things that exist in real life (like events and people from the bible) can be fictionalized in the C&C universe.
For example, in the C&C story, when it describes how the Philadelphia experiment was a failure in real life, it says some of the crew were partially merged with the ship's hull, while in real-real life they actually only experienced headaches and nausea. It also implies Tesla really did aliens through his technology in real life, just like he claimed (which likely really isn't true)...
So in C&C I think that the God mentioned in the bible really isn't a God but actually an alien. I'd like to say he's the Martian leader (I believe this because Adam Isgreen did mention the Martian leader once, he just didn't elaborate about him, aside from that he knew how to defeat the Scrin, but was just too late), who (after sending a meteorite to Earth to kill the dinosaurs and fill the Earth's atmosphere with dust so the Scrin wouldn't be able to see there's life on Earth) sent all non-military people from Mars to Earth so they'd survive, making all humans originally Martians. This would means the paradise described in C&C's bible is actually Mars and Mars became the barren lifeless planet we know it as because the Scrin harvested all of its resources.
So maybe the Martian leader was one of the few Martians who didn't age and could essentially live forever, although he could still be killed. His son (Adam) would also have the same gift and again Adam's sons (Kane and Abel) as well. So that would explain why Kane doesn't age and it also takes religion out of any biblical references, if that's what bothered you. This potentially answers inzane krazy's post as well. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
The abrahamic god being a Martian leader would so dethrone Morgan Freeman as the most epic lulz depiction of god ever. It might actually make the game story a masterpiece in comedy history.
As for ignoring RA2, Isgreen mentioned Westwood were going to link it to the Tiberian continuity in their C&C 3. That doesn't sound like ignoring to me... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
They said RA2 was a fuckup caused by accidentally activating a chronosphere found in the sealed vaults in Area 51 and unintentionally zapping Yuri and his followers back creating another timeline that is all horseshit crazy and the Tiberian universe follows on from RA IIRC. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Carno, you blew your cover Or then this "Volgin" just shares a lot of similarities with him...obsession with metal gear, dinos, contempt against most of C&C... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Well if Tesla did contact aliens, then we're probably fucked down the road...
As for the rest of it, simply to reiterate what Valdez said, Isgreen seemed to want to connect Red Alert 2 to Tiberian somehow, he even posted it a few times so it can't be discarded as easily as we wish. As for the crew being 'fused with USS Eldridge', thats not Westwood's creation at all. That was in a few reports of the experiment, created a good 50 years before Westwood was around. And besides, who takes the government's word 100%?
ps: good job Crimsonum. Who are you again? Shit, I forget. So many people here have new names its a criminal. QUICK_EDIT
Well if Tesla did contact aliens, then we're probably fucked down the road...
Well, as I said earlier technology in the C&C universe advanced quicker and more successfully (the Philadelphia experiment being just an example). Tesla, who in real life claimed to have received messages from aliens, might actually not have been able to broadcast a signal strong enough to lead the Scrin rebels to Earth, while in the C&C universe his equipment was more powerful...
Volgin wrote:
As for the rest of it, simply to reiterate what Valdez said, Isgreen seemed to want to connect Red Alert 2 to Tiberian somehow, he even posted it a few times so it can't be discarded as easily as we wish.
Isgreen just wanted to fix EA's mistake of creating RA2 (and all plotholes that came with it), but if it'd been up to Westwood, RA2 would have never existed and that's reason enough to ignore RA2's existence. Aside from that RA1, TD and TS all have a somewhat serious story, where RA2's story is (FAFAIK intentionally) rather silly... You just can't merge a serious story with an intentional silly story (not without ruining the serious part of the story anyway).
Volgin wrote:
As for the crew being 'fused with USS Eldridge', thats not Westwood's creation at all. That was in a few reports of the experiment, created a good 50 years before Westwood was around. And besides, who takes the government's word 100%?
Sorry, I was under the impression Westwood exaggerated how much of a disaster the the Philadelphia experiment supposedly really was... But apparently that's the real story. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Isgreen just wanted to fix EA's mistake of creating RA2 (and all plotholes that came with it), but if it'd been up to Westwood, RA2 would have never existed
RA2 was not EA's "fault". It wasn't developed by EA. It was developed by Westwood Pacific. If anything the blame should go back to Westwood for producing that game in the first place (or rather, for letting those nutsos in Irvine (WWP) handle RA2 rather than getting the original RA1 team to make RA2). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
How about you follow an elite GDI Commando through several battles as he battles Nod. Made in the styles of 80's action Movies like Commando and Rambo, only with like, C&C stuff. It will be entertaining and fun, stay away from all the debate of the stories and stuff, and could be enjoyed by a large audience.
Or make the movie a comment about imperialism and the current global blah blah politics blah blah, and have GDI symbolically representing the Western Powers in Africa and the Nod resistance. Movie starts out with some tribal battles, and GDI steps in, only to find that the tribes have been armed with an exterior force, and some covert shit ensues. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Ixonoclast has a point. All the good people left to form Petroglyph. Thats why U@W was such a hit compared to Red Alert 2...
Oh wait.
How does RA2 feel 'out of place'? Red Alert 2 was an amazing game, ESPECIALLY compared to Tiberian Sun. It didn't overhype itself, it did what it had to do. It refined the classic Red Alert, made a new story with unforgettable characters and classic units, and more maps then you can shake a Hind at.
None of which I can say Tiberian Sun had. RA2 was the last throwback to the classic RA1 and TD, imho. Tiberian Sun is the real 'black sheep'. It told the story in a whole different light from its predecessor. Rather then allowing the player to imagine him or herself as the protagonist, they were stuck in the boots of McNeil (ugh) or Slavick, and then there was the whole irritating love affair between Umagon and McNeil while the other Kodiak pilots got ignored. Hell, his own brother was only featured in the Nod campaign. At least Firestorm returned back to the C&C roots. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Ixonoclast has a point. All the good people left to form Petroglyph. Thats why U@W was such a hit compared to Red Alert 2...
Oh wait.
How does RA2 feel 'out of place'? Red Alert 2 was an amazing game, ESPECIALLY compared to Tiberian Sun. It didn't overhype itself, it did what it had to do. It refined the classic Red Alert, made a new story with unforgettable characters and classic units, and more maps then you can shake a Hind at.
None of which I can say Tiberian Sun had. RA2 was the last throwback to the classic RA1 and TD, imho. Tiberian Sun is the real 'black sheep'. It told the story in a whole different light from its predecessor. Rather then allowing the player to imagine him or herself as the protagonist, they were stuck in the boots of McNeil (ugh) or Slavick, and then there was the whole irritating love affair between Umagon and McNeil while the other Kodiak pilots got ignored. Hell, his own brother was only featured in the Nod campaign. At least Firestorm returned back to the C&C roots.
Can't say it ever bothered me whether the commander was you or someone else (McNeil, Slavik or CABAL)... If it does bother you, you must be an attention freak.
Red Alert 2 was laughable to say the least... As I'm sure I've mentioned before, the characters in the FMVs couldn't be taken seriousely and even worse; the unit voices couldn't be taken seriously.
You're the commander, so units are supposed to respond with "yes sir", rather than telling me how awesome they think they are. I know not all units did this in RA2, but more did than in TS; in TS there were only a few exceptions, like the mutant units (which is forgivable, since they're not trained as professional soldiers) and a couple campaign-only units.
Even aside form the unit voices the game's atmosphere couldn't really be taken seriousely... It's supposed to be war, yet mainly what you see happy colors and whatnot. If someone were to make a mod in which he'd replace all of RA2's buildings and units with stuff from Roller Coaster Tycoon, it wouldn't even look out of place. I doubt I need to see this wouldn't work with TS...
And another way to prove my point... The live action videos from TS could potentially be re-used for a movie (of course with added material) and it can still remain a seriouse movie.
If the live action videos from Red Alert 2 would be reused for a movie however, it'd be a comedy at best. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands! Banned: 3 times
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:42 am Post subject:
The one thing I love about RA2 are the unit voices. I (nearly) know them all on top of my head. I agree though, for seriousness TS and FS are epic, I still replay those games some time, just to be part of the story again.
Both RA2 and TS / FS were good, RA2 if you liked a funny, not serious game, and TS / FS if you liked a serious war, with a great story. I'm not picking any side here, but to people saying that TS is the black sheep, due to a massive technology overhaul, well, RA2 did the same. RA1 was serious, with some failed experiments or the like but overall still serious. Same with TD. And then 2 games appeared, one that improved all technology and basically removed everything old, and one that maked many failed experiments true, added some new crazy things, but just because the mainstream future warfare game includes railguns and lasers, TS is seen as normal, and RA2 is cast off as stupid.
They're both equally good, but different. I can't really explain what I ment, so... _________________ ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
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Ixonoclast has a point. All the good people left to form Petroglyph. Thats why U@W was such a hit compared to Red Alert 2...
Oh wait.
How does RA2 feel 'out of place'? Red Alert 2 was an amazing game, ESPECIALLY compared to Tiberian Sun. It didn't overhype itself, it did what it had to do. It refined the classic Red Alert, made a new story with unforgettable characters and classic units, and more maps then you can shake a Hind at.
None of which I can say Tiberian Sun had. RA2 was the last throwback to the classic RA1 and TD, imho. Tiberian Sun is the real 'black sheep'. It told the story in a whole different light from its predecessor. Rather then allowing the player to imagine him or herself as the protagonist, they were stuck in the boots of McNeil (ugh) or Slavick, and then there was the whole irritating love affair between Umagon and McNeil while the other Kodiak pilots got ignored. Hell, his own brother was only featured in the Nod campaign. At least Firestorm returned back to the C&C roots.
For some people a game isn't just "a game".
For some people a game is a story, with a feeling, an atmosphere. Despite the fact that RA2 was a really good game(I must admit that the the playing pace in TS was far superior to that in RA2), TS felt like a real world.
You really felt like you were commanding soldiers in the last months of Earth's life.
The RA2 campaign felt like StarCraft. "Kay, let's rush this, I wanna see the next FMV!"
Volgin wrote:
Ixonoclast has a point. All the good people left to form Petroglyph. Thats why U@W was such a hit compared to Red Alert 2...
Oh wait.
That's a worthless comparison. No one has problems with "the game Red Alert 2". Everyone has problems with "the atmosphere of Red Alert 2".
Bittah Commander wrote:
And another way to prove my point... The live action videos from TS could potentially be re-used for a movie (of course with added material) and it can still remain a seriouse movie.
If the live action videos from Red Alert 2 would be reused for a movie however, it'd be a comedy at best.
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject:
Bittah Commander wrote:
May I point you to Red Alert-
Mechanic- "Yeeeeehaw!", "I'll get mah wrench!", "Hot diggity!", "Howdy?", (all done in American Redneck fashion!)
Engineer- "Engineering." (yeah, really?)
Shock Trooper- "Burn, baby, burn!", "Got Juice?", "Yessssss..."
Tanya- "SHAKE IT BABY!!!", "AHAHAHA!", "CHEW ON THIS!", "KISS IT BYEBYE"
Spy- "For King and Country!"
And as for Red Alert 2-
GI- "Hooah!"- An actual US Army battle cry. Can mean "Roger," "solid copy," "good," "great," "message received," "understood," "acknowledged". (hmm, where do those sound familiar from?)
Generic Allied Vehicles- "High speed, low drag!" (absolutely nothing wrong with it.)
Generic Soviet Vehicles- "We will bury them!" (quote from actual Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, said in regards to capitalism)
As for YR vehicles? Even RA2 fans think YR is cheesy, so STFU.
Infantry form a few exceptions, and as shown by my RA example, are excusable. (because RA1 is oh so serious!!! )
Also, having soldiers respond only in the manner you described...is just boring, and also unrealistic- soldiers are people, and consequentially have personalities. It may be a shocker, something hard to grip, but it is true. Frankly, a commanding officer wouldn't give a shit if the guy on the radio sounded like a cocky bastard, provided there was a "Sir" thrown in there.
Even World in Conflict has quips in the Seattle invasion relating to "commie bastards", "dinner dates with Stalin" and a "Sir....SCREW YOU!", units have idle chit-chats if you zoom close enough to them, and many have quotes that you would probably deem "not serious enough for war".
Guess what? World in Conflict is several orders of magnitude more serious and more realistic than TS could ever hope to be.
So really, it's just a nitpick on your part.
Ixonoclast wrote:
For some people a game isn't just "a game".
For some people a game is a story, with a feeling, an atmosphere. Despite the fact that RA2 was a really good game(I must admit that the the playing pace in TS was far superior to that in RA2), TS felt like a real world.
You really felt like you were commanding soldiers in the last months of Earth's life.
The RA2 campaign felt like StarCraft. "Kay, let's rush this, I wanna see the next FMV!"
For group A: these people are normal. Games are things for you to have fun with. Wayyy back to Chess, it was about passing time and having fun. Story, atmosphere usually come second.
For group B: these people might (in the vein of the world scourge, political correctness: that means NOT EVERYBODY!) have problems. Games aren't usually things to have fun with, but rather to supplant books for insight and "knowledge" into a fictional universe. It is about spending time.
I guess this is why TD and RA1 are held in high regard- Each had a proper balance of gameplay and atmosphere, 50/50 maybe, awhile Tiberian Sun was 20/80. (RA2 would be 75/25 and is generally liked more than TS, probably indicating that more people want to enjoy the game rather than masturbate furiously to a "deep" story and tiberium crystals with a profoundly brown environment that may have served as the inspiration for what is happening to FPSs.)
Also, TS's playing pace was terrible. Slow income ramps too quickly up to instant income, you spend have to your time building silos or simply spamming because you absolutely cannot have floating money. Units have fucked up counters and unless the map really forced you to do otherwise, a simple mass of Titans or Tick Tanks would get the job done. Oh, and back to Bittah- Unlike in TS, RA2 actually encouraged you to care about your units- keeping a veteran or elite alive was actually worthwhile in RA2, which is something TS, with all its "appropriate" voice responses failed miserably at. (matter of fact, Stealth Tanks became liabilities at elite- they exploded- losing one elite Stealth Tank in a mass of stealth tanks meant a chain reaction that instantly destroyed them all- you wanted your elites dead, rather than alive!!!)
Hell, even in RA I mixed in a few APCs and V2s into my strike forces, in RA2, I threw in IFVs, Harriers, Flak Tracks into strike forces, sometimes even using infantry as the main component! Even in TD, I found it to be wise to add some Buggies or Humvees to my tank forces.
In TS, Titans and Tick Tanks swept everything aside, and because of how bad aircraft were on vehicles (except for the rarely-used-by-AI ORCA Bomber), I didn't even need to bring anti-air with me. (although Orca Bomber spam was more effective when available and was hardly counterable by ground based AA, in the infinite wisdom of WWV)
PS, Starcraft campaign was actually a challenge, lack of fancy cutscenes or not, which is something that neither RA2 OR TS can say.
Ixonoclast wrote:
That's a worthless comparison. No one has problems with "the game Red Alert 2". Everyone has problems with "the atmosphere of Red Alert 2".
Wrong. Mostly people of the aforementioned Group B have problems with it. You can try again though.
Atmosphere<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Gameplay
But on topic and relevant to the last two posts-
TS would make a great sci-fi B-movie. A cult classic among TS fans, a 3rd rate joke about a bald pedo and his fantasies for a world covered in a green crystal to everyone else.
"OH NO, KANE, THE TIBERIUM IS BEING CONTAINED BY GDI!"
"Yes, my child.We will take care of it once we are finished here."
PS Bittah, since you have such a love for "YES SIR!" being all your unit responses, I am making both a TS and RA2 mod that replaces everything with "YES SIR!"
Here is my pitch for it: Tired of your units sounding like they have personalities? HI, EVA-251 HERE WITH THE FILES YOU NEED TO STOP THIS! Using patented Notepad technology, THE BORING MOD replaces ALL of your unit VOs with YES SIR! so that YOU can revel in the military realism of RA2 or TS! HEAR WHAT SOME OF OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE SAID: "Oh it's great! Now TS's unit VOs are as exciting as the environment and their appearance!"; "I look for good execution in my games, and RA2 with the boring mod is so- the contrast between the game's new voices and the rest of the game is beautiful and well done!" BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! IF YOU CALL WITHIN THE NEXT TWENTY MINUTES, WE'LL SEND YOU THE ORIGINAL TS VOICE ACTING, WHICH IS NEARLY AS DULL, A 50 DOLLAR VALUE, FOR FREE. JUST PAY SHIPPING AND PROCESSING! CALL NOW! _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands! Banned: 3 times
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject:
Agreed. But Gameplay = Atmosphere. Overall though, gameplay is less imporant then atmosphere, but atmosphere is still part of the gameplay. Confusing, but true. _________________ ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
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EVA, you're exaggerating on what I said about the unit voices. "Yes sir" was just a dull example... There could be variation and whatnot, but what I was on about is that after TS, unit voices started sounding less and less realistic. I also was thinking about TD and TS when I wrote my last post... RA1 indeed was a little less serious than TD (or TS), but overall still way more serious than RA2.
And to be honest, I haven't played RA2 in ages... Although the unit voices in RA2 are sillier than in TS, I'm sure they aren't half as bad as the ones in TW (which is really what comes to mind when I think about silly unit voices).
Anyway, unit voices were just an example of RA2's silly atmosphere. People like you (the so called "group A"), probably won't care what happens in the story, the sequel or even whether anything makes sense, as long as it's fun to play (because of this I actually don't even know why you're even reading this topic, but oh well).
If you think the so called group B have problems, you must also believe anyone who reads books, watches a movie more than once or actually cares what happens in the movie he's watching (or any sequel to that movie) has problems.
In fact, if everyone was like you so called group A folks, games wouldn't have a story that wasn't any deeper than "bad guys are doing bad things, so good guys kill bad guys and shoot them with sponge bullets so kids will be able to buy the game as well". _________________ QUICK_EDIT
"bad zombies are doing bad things, so good guy kill bad zombies with chainsaw".
Fix'd to how I like it
IMO, the story should be there to enhance the game, not the other way around. The game should not be there as a medium to convey the story. I like playing the game, the story can make it more interesting, but you can only play a game so many times before you skip the story and start playing skirmish or multiplayer, which if you look at a pie chart of how people spend their time with a game, I am positive that the general rule is that the time spent playing MP and skirmish far exceeds that of the story. The story is fun and all, but in the ends the gameplay is what makes it last. I agree that the purpose of games is to spend time and have fun. Having fun is a relative thing and people enjoy different things, thus some may enjoy the story some may enjoy other things etc etc.
I don't know how this discussion about a movie got where it did, but if they made a movie it would naturally be about the story. I'm not watch a guy click and drag lassos over some units and queue up some tanks for an hour and a half. However, if they took a particular thing from the gameplay (say a unit) and created a story around him, that would be fun too. There are so many possibilites. Heck, I would even pay to see a movie with absolutlely no plot, but an hour and a half of pure action. Imagine the assualt on Kane's Temple, how awesome would that be? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
If in a movie there's constant action and the fighting choreography is good enough, the lack of plot is forgivable. The same thing naturally goes for goes for games.
Still, if a game which is about more than just fast paced action and has a fairly deep story, this shouldn't change with the sequel and if it does, present it as a spin-off and not as a sequel that's completely relevant to the story (even though its very existence creates numerous of potholes). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject:
Bittah Commander wrote:
Anyway, unit voices were just an example of RA2's silly atmosphere. People like you (the so called "group A"), probably won't care what happens in the story, the sequel or even whether anything makes sense, as long as it's fun to play (because of this I actually don't even know why you're even reading this topic, but oh well).
If you think the so called group B have problems, you must also believe anyone who reads books, watches a movie more than once or actually cares what happens in the movie he's watching (or any sequel to that movie) has problems.
In fact, if everyone was like you so called group A folks, games wouldn't have a story that wasn't any deeper than "bad guys are doing bad things, so good guys kill bad guys and shoot them with sponge bullets so kids will be able to buy the game as well".
No, actually, if you read my statement fully, you would notice two things.
1: Group A still values story, it comes second; story should not hamper gameplay. To use a food comparison- ice cream is gameplay, the toppings represent the story. It should taste good with or without the toppings.
You are taking my statement and digging into the extreme to say this group (that I would place myself in) would entirely desire the non-existence of the story. (matter of fact, I personally put story at a much higher position than I give it for a game when creating a mod with new factions)
2: When I mentioned Group B, I directly compared to books, in that the game supplants the book for insight and knowledge into the fictional universe. Books and movies however, cannot be compared in your way to video games, as they aren't interactive- you read the book, you watch the movie; video games you play.
And I am glad you caught my exaggeration- nonetheless, boring "YES SIR", "AFFIRMATIVE" responses were and are the banes of video games, and as I said, even World in Conflict, which makes TS look as serious as RA3 has responses that would be deemed "not serious enough for war" by people such as you. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Wow. So I assume I am lumped into the group A, as accept Red Alert 2 as a good sequel. People can't enjoy a mix of humor and seriousness in life? What kind of bland world is that? I love serious things actually, in fact I have very few comedy films in my library of movies because they're generally shit...
But playing a video game that is humorous means I do not care about the storyline? Dude, that makes no sense -what so ever-. I suppose if I play Tiberian Sun and HALO I can't diverge and play Mario Kart or I don't give a shit about plot? What is this I don't even compute. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Wow. So I assume I am lumped into the group A, as accept Red Alert 2 as a good sequel. People can't enjoy a mix of humor and seriousness in life? What kind of bland world is that? I love serious things actually, in fact I have very few comedy films in my library of movies because they're generally shit...
But playing a video game that is humorous means I do not care about the storyline? Dude, that makes no sense -what so ever-. I suppose if I play Tiberian Sun and HALO I can't diverge and play Mario Kart or I don't give a shit about plot? What is this I don't even compute.
Not sure where you got that last part of your post from, but I don't recall ever implying that.
I don't mind a serious plot, with a couple funny components. Eddy Murphy can make serious movie an even he just can't keep himself from joking a couple times during that movie, it doesn't ruin the overall feeling of the movie. The same goes for example GTA4; it's not made as a silly game, which doesn't mean there can't be funny parts and those funny parts don't ruin the overall feeling the game either.
Red Alert 2 however is nothing but silly, unlike all C&C's that came before it, which is why it doesn't fit in. Yes, RA1 had a couple silly aspects, but its sillyness is far from that of RA2.
Aside from that, serious stories are usually much deeper than silly stories. I loved Conquer's Bad Fur day for example, but I can't say its story stuck with me or that I'd care if they'd change everything in a sequel.
I like funny games and movies at times, but it's less likely I'll really care about the story if it isn't a serious one and I do get annoyed if the silly game or movie has a story which is supposed to be a sequel to a serious story I did care about.
And with care about I mean I like the story and wonder what's gonna happen next, just in case you were thinking about taking it out of context.
Also, I don't care whether a story is interactive or not and I can compare with books or movies perfectly fine. I'd actually rather play a game just for its story, than I'd read a book. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I think there must be funnyness in games, not everything has to be realistic. Sometimes a degree of realism is good, other times it is bad. Like if you played CoD and suddenly Saddam Hussein himself and challanged you to battle from his giant flying laser SCUD doom fortress... wearing a clown hat!
Or in reverse if you were playing TF2 and somebody came along with a Beretta pistol and killed you all with one shot to the chest/head then started ethnically cleansing the level.
One can play both types and enjoy them, you aren't limited by the realism. I like some realism sometimes, but I still enjoy mercenaries 2 where you can survive being minigunned or shot in the chest with afew puny RPGs, or destroy all humans where you fly round in a UFO.. destroying... all... humans? Yeah. Madness can be fun, but so can sanity. And liking them is not mutually exclusive. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Tiberian Sun, if its better, then why is the gameplay shit? No, seriously. Almost every game I've played of stock online(This is by joining random people, not with people I know on PPM, off PPM or on my MSN, for the most part they have brains.) is the same thing.
GDI only 99% of the time. Its rare to see a Nod player at all. The maps are -always- modded and have none of this 'great' atmosphere that is supposed to be in the game. Its these hellzones of rock-walls and brown terrain, with the massive square patches of Tiberium. And the same goddamn strategies. ORCA Bomber rush, or Carryall Disruptor/Mark 2, or a flat out foot attack of Disc Troopers/Titans.
Seriously, the gameplay is crap if this is the ONLY way people can play it. How can gameplay be good if Nod isn't even able to contend against GDI online? (not that GDI players online need any skill.) I've won matches on XWIS sometimes while CAMPING while idiots ferried carryalls to-and fro.
ps: dutchy, Theres no flaming! Its rather civilized and I... I riek it. QUICK_EDIT
It always baffled me how any Fagwis gameplay can be considered "good". They rush, spam or just act like mentally impaired 11 year olds.
FAGwis gameplay suffers from the disease afflicting many online games know as "l33t n00bs". Basically they play to win over everything else and are violently opposed to anything that would interrupt their cycle of gameplay (such as facing Yuri or France whose GCs or psi towers would stop their tank rushes. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands! Banned: 3 times
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject:
Fagwis? What is that?
However, from the sound of your post, I totally agree with you. I hate people who play to win, who master every single build order perfectly, that's just no fun, doing the same thing over and over again... _________________ ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
Become one with your heart's desire:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/command-conquer-red-renegade1
☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭ QUICK_EDIT
It's my pet nickname for Xwis. I adopted it ever since me and M666 hijacked their chat (it was just us talking for like 5 pages) and I declared they were all fags and nobody disagreed. Ever since every service they provide I have termed FAGwis as most of the playerbase fit the (rush/spam/lame)fag profile. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Tiberian Sun, if its better, then why is the gameplay shit? No, seriously. Almost every game I've played of stock online(This is by joining random people, not with people I know on PPM, off PPM or on my MSN, for the most part they have brains.) is the same thing.
Online RTS gameplay sucks donkey balls. You'd think that playing against humans would create diverse gameplay with interesting tactics, but apparently everyone online has their brain replaced by StarCraft AI.
Also, anyone who plays TS on maps without veinholes, visceroids, ionstorms, meteor showers, tiberian floaters and tiberian fiends is a pussy.
Volgin wrote:
Best game of C&C ever came from beating 40+ destroyers with 3 Giant Squid.
That's the spirit, slaughter those filthy spam-faggots with extreme prejudice. QUICK_EDIT
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And obviously "from God, to Kane, to Seth".
I can't keep a record of all the names you've had, lol.
