Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:26 am Post subject:
Rise of the Reich
First off, I apologize if this idea has been done to death already.
In an alternate reality, the Allies never come to exist, and the Soviets become one of the world's super-powers.
Hitler comes into power in Germany, and forms a tight bond with the Russians.
When the Soviet military leaders decide Hitler is becoming too powerful and have him eliminated, the alliance between The Reich and Soviet Russia shatters and a new conflict sparks.
The ever-evolving German war machine moves to crush the traitors before taking the world!
With Red Alert 2-esque technology, the two opposing factions face off across Europe.
The heroic Soviet Army sets out to defend the world from the rule of the The Third Reich.
The Soviets will be the "Good Guys" and have similar tech to what they have already, including Tesla and the like, with more emphasis on flame-weaponry, too.
The Third Reich are the "Bad Guys" and have a whole range of new tech, such as bizarre war experiments, similar to the Yuri side.
If there were to be a third team, it would either be the "New Alliance", the Allied Army beginning to form, or I suppose "The Empire", the Japanese army. But the third side is not of importance.
What do you think? The basic goal here is to bring the realistic Nazi Germany into the satirical world of Red Alert.
I'm going to try and come up with some unit concepts shortly.
-----
Tech Ideas:
Aerial Discs: Secret Military technology finally released to the field; flying saucers.
Hover Technology: Several units sporting unique hovering abilities.
SuperGuns: Huge mounted cannons.
Sound Weaponry: Using intense sound waves to damage infantry and even armoured foes. Last edited by Confessor on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:06 pm; edited 5 times in total QUICK_EDIT
You'd better be careful with this. Nazis are something not to be taken lightly even in games or mods. As a first, I suggest limit or better yet, refrain from using the word Nazi or any obvious references in the mod; like that swastika. QUICK_EDIT
After all, the war actually happened. All I want to do is put a Sci-Fi twist on it. I don't aim to offend any nationality or religion at all.
(I don't exactly plan to include the holocaust or any such thing, just the battles between the German War Machine and the Soviets.)
History is not something to be shunned. QUICK_EDIT
Anyways, all I'm saying is there are somethings we have to take seriously.
Confessor wrote:
I don't aim to offend any nationality or religion at all. I don't exactly plan to include the holocaust or any such thing, just the battles between the German War Machine and the Soviets.
i'm a bit bothered by it, the swatiska faces the wrong direction and i as german feel a bit offendet by that, there are still people accusing newer generations still of these crimes and the people here are right, it's nothing to play with, it has nothing to do with maturing when handling with distasting content.
i would really appreciate it if you would change the logo, or replace the swatiska with something else.
many games deal with that when they incorporating content of this and work with it.
i have nothing against a good WW 2 mod nor playing WW 2 games, but keep in mind that not all people feel like you about this.
I and i'm sure the biggest part of my current generation in my land would like to live on and be seperated from the past, yet there are still people who accuse even our generation of those times.
it's still after all those years in certain ways a hot topic to play with. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:26 am Post subject:
Rename Nazi's to Reich and replace Swastika with either the German cross or the Falcon (without Swastika of course). I dunno what the Germans think of this, as I dunno whether these icons are used by modern-day German army QUICK_EDIT
i'm a bit bothered by it, the swatiska faces the wrong direction and i as german feel a bit offendet by that, there are still people accusing newer generations still of these crimes and the people here are right, it's nothing to play with, it has nothing to do with maturing when handling with distasting content.
i would really appreciate it if you would change the logo, or replace the swatiska with something else.
many games deal with that when they incorporating content of this and work with it.
i have nothing against a good WW 2 mod nor playing WW 2 games, but keep in mind that not all people feel like you about this.
I and i'm sure the biggest part of my current generation in my land would like to live on and be seperated from the past, yet there are still people who accuse even our generation of those times.
it's still after all those years in certain ways a hot topic to play with.
Very reasonable argument.
I realized shortly after that it was facing the wrong way, and that's because the render of the swastika I used was actually wrong... (Fourth image on Google Images under Swastika...)
I did try very hard in my opening post to seperate "Germany" from "Nazi Germany", but I understand your complaint.
The legality also, obviously will probably play a large part in my decision.
When I get home tomorrow I may work on a replacement logo for the "Third Reich" faction.
Though, in my defence for using it, I want to be accurate. I find it somewhat annoying when I see games using the cross, when realistically the unit being represented would have worn the swastika.
The Eagle seems like a likely candidate for replacement at this point, are there any problems with such a thing?
Thanks for your input so far and thankyou for being so reasonable towards me on such a touchy subject.
SO, REGARDING THE MOD ITSELF, is there anyone interested in helping?
EDIT:
Dutchygamer wrote:
Rename Nazi's to Reich and replace Swastika with either the German cross or the Falcon (without Swastika of course). I dunno what the Germans think of this, as I dunno whether these icons are used by modern-day German army
The faction was already officially named "Third Reich", but thanks. Last edited by Confessor on Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
the iron cross is still used and the Bundesadler/Bundeseagle is also used in modern days mostly on base gateways and military buildings aswell as on some politician buildings so both should be fine, however the "normal" Bundesadler is used, there is also one "reichsadler/Reichseagle" with a swatiska under it's claws, thats also forbidden and not used anymore.
but something indicating, some crossbreed symbols like this often used Flag wich had a swatiska before that was exchanged with the german Ironcross should clearly indicate things and should be ok.
Old Logo -> New Logo:
Doesn't look as cool (I don't think I did the cross very well). Last edited by Confessor on Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
yepp better now...
but now you should show us some more work except this logo and your brief summary...
draw concepts or even show ingame gfx which you did yourself
if you have no idea how to create voxels/shapes yourself look for tutorials. _________________ just a simple logo by bricks @ raminator, on Flickr QUICK_EDIT
yepp better now...
but now you should show us some more work except this logo and your brief summary...
draw concepts or even show ingame gfx which you did yourself
if you have no idea how to create voxels/shapes yourself look for tutorials.
Gonna draw concepts tomorrow.
I'm not the greatest at vxls/shps but I know how. QUICK_EDIT
I have a problem with Hitler being alive in your mod and at the same time using the todays iron cross and Bundesadler. This would drag them through the mire if you use them together with Hitler.
That's why you should make a quite different story
e.g.
Hitler germany was allianced with the Soviets.
Hitler was killed by Soviets (because he was too powerful in the eyes of the soviet leadership), thus germany breaks the alliance.
Hitler germany becomes a new militaristic state. (to explain their continued military buildup and research)
This way you separate your story from Nazis and the current Germany and can still use logos which are similar to the logos nowadays. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Or just use the swastika, as it is a symbol of the sun? Besides, I don't see people complaining about the hammer and sycle and many more millions of people died from Bolschevism.
So yeah, use the swastika, use Hitler etc. It is a "what if" mod. It's not like using the symbol instantly offends Jews, but stuff like this is meh. There should be freedom of speech and expression people.
Now, moving on to the mod - this is interesting. Do continue. QUICK_EDIT
The political correctness is sickening, really. First we replace swastikas for Nazis because its more comforting to use the iron cross? What next? We replace the hammer and sickle with the red star? Ugh, the PC attitude is simply a way to obscure and cover up history. Though from an art perspective that swastika looked like ass and the cross does look better.
Please for the love of God have Nazi war mechs and Wolfenstein style shit, and make this crazy fun. The last thing we need is a boring ultra-realistic mod with generic panzers and tigers...
also wut gosho? rly? at least the Commies didn't try to exterminate everybody by race. QUICK_EDIT
We replace the hammer and sickle with the red star?
Some games have done this, yes.
I'm a little sceptical about some aspects of this mod, you're trying for high-realism with crazy tech and a militaristic state which exterminates jews?
How can you have all three? at most you can have two, imo. QUICK_EDIT
Please for the love of God have Nazi war mechs and Wolfenstein style shit, and make this crazy fun. The last thing we need is a boring ultra-realistic mod with generic panzers and tigers...
EXACTLY what I'm doing. The Reich units will be fantasy and fictional (but occasionally an "upgraded version" of something that actually existed.)
Orac wrote:
I'm a little sceptical about some aspects of this mod, you're trying for high-realism with crazy tech and a militaristic state which exterminates jews?
How can you have all three? at most you can have two, imo.
I'm not going for high-realism. Like, at all. The Reich faction is going to be Sci-Fi/Fantasy just like the Allies/Soviets/Yuri factions were in the actual game.
It's hard to iterate. But yes, this is not going to be realistic, this mod is about MAKING the Reich fit Red Alert.
raminator wrote:
seems to me like you played warfront turning poin
I have, actually. But besides that mech featured on the cover posted above, Warfront Turning Point has incredibly boring/realistic units. QUICK_EDIT
Ignoring your history isnt the correct thing to do. If it is forgotten it is not learned from. Even if you'd like to forget it, doesn't mean it should be forgotten and ignored and never truely will.
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject:
Lt Albrecht wrote:
Quote:
The political correctness is sickening
QFT. If we cannot laugh in the face of history, who are we to succeed it?
QFT
blubb wrote:
its sure funny to laugh at a past crime of ethnic cleansing, it sure is.
i'm sorry but those stupid comments are proof of your disgusting distaste and sheer ignorance.
Me thinks you took Albrecht's statement too literally.
OmegaBolt wrote:
Ignoring your history isnt the correct thing to do. If it is forgotten it is not learned from. Even if you'd like to forget it, doesn't mean it should be forgotten and ignored and never truely will.
QFT _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
there is nothing about it to take not seriously, and there are things that shouldn't be played with just because volgin likes to clutter crap into a discussion about something i first hand feel about certain things and erasing symbols wich are nonexistant nowadays in order to shred things all for once off.
A satire may give a laughter or comfort also those who want to forget, but there are still people, and a lot people wich feel pissed in the face by things like this when their lives are connected to that time or they were there first hand, or simply having a feel for those and look back in shame still.
the swatiska for example is blunty said a powerful symbol wich stuck and still is in everyones head and gives most a bad feeling.
then there are those who simply laugh on that matter, nothing particulary wrong with that, but it's nothing to ridicule.
A Fun mod with a Swatiska and Wacky stories is one of those things wich aren't considered as satire, it's just like having fun with things you may be (i don't want to offend you) you may be too immature.
my grandmother was someone who hid jews in her basement, yet my grandfather got killed, even i have a connection to that and that is simply making me nervous about that matter.
and please, think over your own anger before you let it out just because game factories do not have mostly realistic symbols and materials because *points at picture* it's better when some things are not too close to that.
(i'm sorry if i made some people see stuff they don't wanted to see but that is indeed the true reality we are talking about in our little discussion.) _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
In many ways I understand your point Blubb (that pic makes me very sad.), on the other hand though.
I don't see it as politically incorrect. Look at Blitzkrieg for example.. which was a very successful series, several companies from Russian to German made expansions and addons for it, I know quite a few people from many nationalities that play and mod it still to this day.
And that very serious game is littered with Swastikas, and other Nazi references. QUICK_EDIT
Blubb, you're missing the meaning. Social pressures have taught you 6-11 state sanctioned murders are not a point of pride. However forgetting them is not the answer, I do not seek to glorify the deads of the Nazi party or espouse mass murder, racism or militarism. But as long as these events are held in the collective memories of our society what wrong in there in having the last laugh over the evil beings who perpetrated them?
My point is this:
"Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed forever to repeat it"
You go and shy away from the past and sweep it under the carpet all it will serve to do is allow something similar to happen because nobody rembers the last time somebody tried that...
The choice is simple: remember or repeat. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Germany, especially has become a nation which wants to live in a fantasy world, even its people. The censorship in Germany is a great tragedy. Isn't this what Hitler did anyway? Censor the opposition? Now I'm not supporting Nazis, but what I'm saying is, Germans have become hypocrites. In this vain effort to censor violent games, TV, and everything else, the Germans have become nothing but a mockery. There are still Neo Nazis in Germany, there are still anti semites in Germany, and there will forever be a scar on Germany's legacy for World Wars 1 and 2.
That does NOT mean that the rest of Europe and the world should have to have our products and entertainment censored just to please a few Krauts who are ashamed of their past. Get over it. The bizarre censorship/shame fetish the Germans have is very Orwellian, to say the least. Germans certainly were not the only victims in this crime perpetrated by Hitler. What about all of the dead Russians? British? French? Poles? Americans? Japanese? We were all touched by World War 2, our grandparents witnessed horrifying things, but ignoring and censoring the truth behind what happened there is paving the way for history to repeat itself again.
PS that personal attack was deep, i liked it. way to let the 'troll' win. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands! Banned: 3 times
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject:
Yeah, by censoring stuff, they achieve the opposite of what they want. People will rebel (you know what I mean), and everyone will remember WOII, because of the censorship. People should stop adjusting their games for Germany, let's see how long it takes for the govrnment there to realize they're stupid. _________________ ☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭
Become one with your heart's desire:
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☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭☭ QUICK_EDIT
Germany, especially has become a nation which wants to live in a fantasy world, even its people. The censorship in Germany is a great tragedy. Isn't this what Hitler did anyway? Censor the opposition? Now I'm not supporting Nazis, but what I'm saying is, Germans have become hypocrites. In this vain effort to censor violent games, TV, and everything else, the Germans have become nothing but a mockery. There are still Neo Nazis in Germany, there are still anti semites in Germany, and there will forever be a scar on Germany's legacy for World Wars 1 and 2.
That does NOT mean that the rest of Europe and the world should have to have our products and entertainment censored just to please a few Krauts who are ashamed of their past. Get over it. The bizarre censorship/shame fetish the Germans have is very Orwellian, to say the least. Germans certainly were not the only victims in this crime perpetrated by Hitler. What about all of the dead Russians? British? French? Poles? Americans? Japanese? We were all touched by World War 2, our grandparents witnessed horrifying things, but ignoring and censoring the truth behind what happened there is paving the way for history to repeat itself again.
PS that personal attack was deep, i liked it. way to let the 'troll' win.
in many ways you may be right, the censorship thing IS horrible.
in the end i agree on one thing, it is O to use those symbols and to be as realistic as possible, but if it is then it should REALLY be simillar to the original historic events.
i'm not closing the eyes on of things that happened i'm just on that side that it should taught or shown in the right way.
not that people learn about history in satires or comedy.
and yes the censorship is getting worse and worse, even so surveillance and stuff.
we're on the brink were specific games are forbidden to even ship here or about to get banned entirely. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
not that people learn about history in satires or comedy.
Are you kidding? I first got the gist of the French Resistance by watching " 'Allo 'Allo" as a kid... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:41 am Post subject:
I would certainly not like if someone were to make a mod of Americans butchering Indians or something. I know that's something of the past, and I have nothing to do with it, however it's a part of America's history that none of us are proud of.
It's tough for most people to really feel what the nazi swastika represents. We get watered down with it - Myself included, being a big fan of the Call of Duty series - as WW2 theme provides for many awesome game titles, mods, and movies.
That said though, it's more easy to disconnect with what really happened, unconsciously dismissing it as fiction.
Being that it's such a sensitive subject, I think it should really be done with respect to the wishes of Blubb and LKO, and the other German members of the forum. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
Whats wrong with being at war with Germany in games/mods? We're at war with Russia in loads of games, I don't see the difference here. It's not like those games feature concentration camps, theyre just using cool German military as a gaming device. QUICK_EDIT
Does this mod actually have any content apart from a controversial/sensitive symbol?
I'm working on it.
I don't have much time on my hands, though.
That and, well, I'm very caught up in reading this huge argument here.
Also I'm not very good at voxels at all... But I should have SHPs well underway this week.
Anybody against me using the Civilization rips for the new infantry? QUICK_EDIT
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Rise of the Reich
Blubb, you're missing the meaning. Social pressures have taught you 6-11 state sanctioned murders are not a point of pride. However forgetting them is not the answer, I do not seek to glorify the deads of the Nazi party or espouse mass murder, racism or militarism. But as long as these events are held in the collective memories of our society what wrong in there in having the last laugh over the evil beings who perpetrated them?
