Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject:
ASM
Subject description: A small mod (Red Alert 2: Yuri's Revenge)
Quote:
Intro
This mod is aimed to be very little smally tiny. So if you expect huge changes or TC (total conversion) mod, you'll be disappointed.
Dedicated to imitate the atmosphere and gameplay of the original Red Alert 2 and Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge, the mod is supposed to be something like an extension of a human arm - a bit prolonged, but not too far (because it can make an obstacle of itself preventing from doing anything ).
For some months I've received some comments from fans/antifans/players there.
This time I need a couple of different opinions. Feedback from such great modders as you, will be much appreciated here.
Updated/edited post:
Based on Allied War Factory made by The I Man & CNC_Network:
Based on Allied Ore Refinery created by MooMan65 Allied Ore Refinery in the pic above is made by MooMan65!
I don't see anything wrong with different buildings for different theaters, I think it's a great idea, I'm surprised no-one thought of it before though. I'm not fond of the SHP's used though, but my opinion is biased as I hate most CnP images. QUICK_EDIT
I don't see anything wrong with different buildings for different theaters, I think it's a great idea, I'm surprised no-one thought of it before though. I'm not fond of the SHP's used though, but my opinion is biased as I hate most CnP images.
Have to agree with Aro, I like the idea of a different theme for each theater, but CnP jobs just seem so meh most of the times :/ _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
wtf? We're supposed to comment when it looks like all you've done is mangle a bunch of buildings? Theater images don't need to be that different.
On top you ignore the entire "THINGS COME OUT THE TOP OF ME" for the War Factory in almost every pic.
One word: jealousy (the proof: "Theater images don't need to be that different", haha).
I don't have SO MUCH CASH as you have, to buy all these superb programs for making buildings and other stuff.
And I truly have nothing against it. Everyone uses his own programs.
But everybody should be aware though, it's all simple CnP, and using free Paint (yup, all was made by M$ Paint!) and free SHP Builder.
m7 wrote:
The Soviet War Factory versions of the CY and Refinery are neat though.
:-O I still think they're the worst versions of buildings I've ever made.
ConMan wrote:
I personally don't like it
If you play as any theater, all the buildings look too similar...
But good try though.
Thanks, the first real constructive cricitism. They look, I'm well aware of it. That was the plan... different theatre, different style... they should look similar, nevertheless.
Aro wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with different buildings for different theaters, I think it's a great idea, I'm surprised no-one thought of it before though. I'm not fond of the SHP's used though, but my opinion is biased as I hate most CnP images.
Thanks. I didn't see it either, so at first I didn't know if it works at all... x-D But I checked it, it worked, it'd be a waste of an idea.
Yup, it's only CnP, I don't have any advanced programs than MS Paint (and cash for them). I have some other programs (such as GIMP to various edit/detail/resize work), but I don't use them too much.
Ixonoclast wrote:
The idea is worthy of the hearts of 777 virgin hearts.
The execution is less perfect, but it still looks okay.
Add more details.
Thanks.
I remember the advice you all gave me when making cranes. Less free space, more detail, more proper shadows, etc.
The mod isn't finished yet. Almost all can change (especially Allied desert theatre buildings ;-P).
Orac wrote:
The idea has been around for a while, actually...
But yeah, interesting idea, just a little fuzzy on the execution.
Hmm, I didn't see a mod using this idea, so I was confused if it can be applicable.
Thank you, the execution isn't finished. Probably v0.99 of the mod will be the final one with ultimate versions of buildings.
inzane krazy wrote:
Have to agree with Aro, I like the idea of a different theme for each theater, but CnP jobs just seem so meh most of the times :/
Like I said, don't expect too much from M$ Paint, CnP work, and beta versions of the mod.
Thanks for the opinions! _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Awsome Super Mod the name must be ,It's greatly going to make me change my mind about playing only on temperate theater. _________________ if you need help shpping,voxeling,doing 3ds,just call me on sm.949@hotmail.com QUICK_EDIT
Awsome Super Mod the name must be ,It's greatly going to make me change my mind about playing only on temperate theater.
Thanks, the mod isn't awesome at all. It needs a good deal of improvements (or a bad deal of dirty work, all the same).
Old Ops Center:
New Ops Center:
A close comparison:
I'm thinking about making different theatre versions for:
- airpad
- tech lab/center (+ 2-tier tech buildings, such as Soviet Ops Center above)
- base defenses
- SWs
Hmm. The mod strikes me as a good effort so far, but I don't like the results of the buildings. Right now, yes, they have different looks for each theatre, and the structures look more similar (giving a feeling of unity that is pretty good imo). Some buildings have the changes done exceptionally well, and others have the new parts standing out and poorly matching.
As a whole this makes the styles look only so-so, with a lot of quantity but little, and scattered quality.
For example the Allied base in the lunar theatre; the Construction yard and the barracks have these new parts added very well, and no parts look too much out of place. The rest of the buildings in Allied Lunar look awkward, and like the changes were done in a rush; the airforce command looks weird with the giant, tall hangar door, the warfactory looks off centre and its entrance way too small, and finally the refinery's changes contrast too much on the left side and look warped out of shape on the right side.
What I would recommend is not to go for many, moderate quality changes with a few quality results, but instead stick with one good, consistent style (and only small changes per theatre). Take the best of everything and concentrate on one, high quality replacement set per side.
Now, I think that is enough about building styles from me.
On the bright side this mod looks very unique IMO; its commendable that you went ahead and did some good assets without really relying on PS, 3d software, other people, or too much public available assets [not that there is anything wrong with them, but it gets boring seeing recycled graphics and ideas as opposed to original stuff].
This uniqueness is impressive - I'll try to play the latest demo out on the weekend and experience the good stuff up close
Where do these walls of text come from xD. didn't expect these would happen when I started... QUICK_EDIT
wtf? We're supposed to comment when it looks like all you've done is mangle a bunch of buildings? Theater images don't need to be that different.
On top you ignore the entire "THINGS COME OUT THE TOP OF ME" for the War Factory in almost every pic.
One word: jealousy (the proof: "Theater images don't need to be that different", haha).
I don't have SO MUCH CASH as you have, to buy all these superb programs for making buildings and other stuff.
And I truly have nothing against it. Everyone uses his own programs.
But everybody should be aware though, it's all simple CnP, and using free Paint (yup, all was made by M$ Paint!) and free SHP Builder.
Jealous? Are you out of your ztyping mind? I wouldn't use those useless sack of shit buildings if my life depended on it. Commanders don't design 6 sets of buildings for each theater of war. If anything at all, they design one set of buildings that work with all of them.
I don't know which is more stupid, the jealousy comment or the entire idea presented as it is. QUICK_EDIT
The idea is pretty good. Different construction methods are used for different theatres, although you have to remember that less-than-one-second building buildup and less-than-minute construction makes all logic as far as constructions are concerned go obsolete.
Still, the concept itself is a nice and original one but some graphics do need work. _________________ mentalomega.com QUICK_EDIT
That's actually pretty cool excluding it's shadow, that needs major fixing.
Fixed, but I have no time for showing a pic. =-/
MT wrote:
Hmm. The mod strikes me as a good effort so far, but I don't like the results of the buildings. Right now, yes, they have different looks for each theatre, and the structures look more similar (giving a feeling of unity that is pretty good imo). Some buildings have the changes done exceptionally well, and others have the new parts standing out and poorly matching.
As a whole this makes the styles look only so-so, with a lot of quantity but little, and scattered quality.
For example the Allied base in the lunar theatre; the Construction yard and the barracks have these new parts added very well, and no parts look too much out of place. The rest of the buildings in Allied Lunar look awkward, and like the changes were done in a rush; the airforce command looks weird with the giant, tall hangar door, the warfactory looks off centre and its entrance way too small, and finally the refinery's changes contrast too much on the left side and look warped out of shape on the right side.
What I would recommend is not to go for many, moderate quality changes with a few quality results, but instead stick with one good, consistent style (and only small changes per theatre). Take the best of everything and concentrate on one, high quality replacement set per side.
Now, I think that is enough about building styles from me.
On the bright side this mod looks very unique IMO; its commendable that you went ahead and did some good assets without really relying on PS, 3d software, other people, or too much public available assets [not that there is anything wrong with them, but it gets boring seeing recycled graphics and ideas as opposed to original stuff].
Thanks, all what you said is very true. Thank you for pointing out that Allied airpad in lunar theatre, I didn't see it that way (and thanks to you, it will be changed ASAP ).
MT wrote:
This uniqueness is impressive - I'll try to play the latest demo out on the weekend and experience the good stuff up close
Hmm, seriously, I don't recommend the latest "demo", b/c it doesn't have a lot of things done, i.e. buildups of new buildings, and so forth.
Only 0.99 or 1.00 version is planned to be sincerely recommendable!
MT wrote:
Where do these walls of text come from xD. didn't expect these would happen when I started...
Once again, thanks for these "walls of text". x-D I'll see if I can improve them, and match their quality with each other, so they will appear really similar and good.
suraj_geddam98 wrote:
Different buildings for different theaters...... *thinks for a while* Awesome!
Needs a good deal of work, nevertheless.
m7 wrote:
Jealous? Are you out of your ztyping mind? I wouldn't use those useless sack of shit buildings if my life depended on it. Commanders don't design 6 sets of buildings for each theater of war. If anything at all, they design one set of buildings that work with all of them.
I don't know which is more stupid, the jealousy comment or the entire idea presented as it is.
LOL, jealous of the idea, are you ztyping not thinking? :-O
Commanders? Maybe "modders"? ^^
Haha, besides, if you are so jealous of the idea of different buildings in different theaters, you can make own sets for your own mod, too. This idea isn't copyrighted or something.
Just stop to tell me what to do and what not to do, and what's useful or what's useless. Save your pretty dumb judging for your own mods.
Speeder wrote:
The idea is pretty good. Different construction methods are used for different theatres, although you have to remember that less-than-one-second building buildup and less-than-minute construction makes all logic as far as constructions are concerned go obsolete.
Still, the concept itself is a nice and original one but some graphics do need work.
Yup, that's why I'm always marking downloads as "demos", and give warnings that they are only beta versions.
Buildups will be hard to do, but they are needed. =-/ Unless one start to replace Westwood's original buildup logic with a new one, i.e. general buildup for all buildings, varying only in size, e.g. an active construction site and working cranes, etc. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
There will be Naval ConYard, plus Naval Construction Ship, NCS, built by the regular ConYard and Shipyard/Subpen respectively (ie Shipyard/Subpen will be able to be built by the regular ConYard).
Naval ConYard will cost around 3500 credits, deploayble into NCS, with long/far adjacency (all other naval buildings will have standard adjacency: 2).
Well, I was thinking about two things concerning only water maps:
1) how to solve the problem of resource gathering
2) how to make MCV deploayble/placeable on water (i.e. make it useful somewhat, so the ConYard wouldn't be required)
Hmm, my own solutions (need an analysis):
1) navalised oil derricks, making a bit more money
2) hmm, AFAIK, it's possible with game modes (making MCV just like NCS, deployable into NConYard instead of the regular one, plus changing movement type, etc.)
BTW, do demolished anims work? x-D _________________ Last edited by Feillyne on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
OH GOD, WIN, SO WIN, THAT REMINDS ME SO MUCH OF TOTAL ANNIHILATION, KEEP GOING! _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Ah, the epicness. Love the buildings except the naval battle lab. It looks unbalanced (I don't wanna be in that building should it collapses ). _________________ The future belongs to The Forgotten! QUICK_EDIT
Maybe you should add some helipads on the buildings, so...you know, people can leave and enter the place :v _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Ah, the epicness. Love the buildings except the naval battle lab. It looks unbalanced (I don't wanna be in that building should it collapses ).
Thanks.
Soviet one, supposedly? Well, it'll be a bit changed. ;-P
- geno - wrote:
ingame tests? well i want to see it in action lol
No, not yet. First most fundamental (basic) graphics, then anims (+ snow/damaged versions), then in-game pics.
inzane krazy wrote:
Maybe you should add some helipads on the buildings, so...you know, people can leave and enter the place :v
There isn't room for that... any room. ATM naval buildings and base defenses have broader foundations (3x2 smallest), but later they also will have more hps (and BDs will have more firepower).
You know, they can enter these by ferry and ladders. Hmm, I could add some ladders to the platforms supporting navalised buildings, so they don't need to bring their own ones. ^^'
Which version of Yuri naval platform is better? (below)
_________________ QUICK_EDIT
Really good, but I think Allied + Soviet +Yuri Tech, added to the naval equivalents is just too much clutter. Perhaps replace Defense tab with Naval/SW of course, like change all defenses to buildings tab and then redo defenses tab with water/SW so there won't be a hugely cluttered buildings tab. QUICK_EDIT
Really good, but I think Allied + Soviet +Yuri Tech, added to the naval equivalents is just too much clutter. Perhaps replace Defense tab with Naval/SW of course, like change all defenses to buildings tab and then redo defenses tab with water/SW so there won't be a hugely cluttered buildings tab.
Agreed, If it's possible of course. _________________ Please, I DON'T read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
really,I dislike CnP jobs.But,its better than none.
So,I choose the first one.
Yup, but ATM only CnP is possible.
inzane krazy wrote:
First one.
Maybe you could add the helipads on top of the structures which you can actually place one on, liek the Tech Center for the allies.
OBTW, will there be a graphical upgrade for the vehicles?
Hmm, hardly, w/o messing up the original design / whole building. = /
What do you mean? I haven't tested all possibilites/abilities/features of RA2:YR engine. By "a graphical upgrade" I understand upgrades for vehicles (i.e. making them graphically upgradable), but IDK if it's possible.
Shame they (WW) made IFV hard-coded. = / It could be easily used as a turret upgrade for vehicles, just by using infantry (and making them unable to undeploy/exit). = /
But probably you mean updating textures/skins of vehicles. Yes, it is planned. Plus new aircraft for the naval versions of airpads.
Darkstorm wrote:
Really good, but I think Allied + Soviet +Yuri Tech, added to the naval equivalents is just too much clutter. Perhaps replace Defense tab with Naval/SW of course, like change all defenses to buildings tab and then redo defenses tab with water/SW so there won't be a hugely cluttered buildings tab.
inzane krazy wrote:
Agreed, If it's possible of course.
AFAIK, TechLevel should do the trick. Simple changing all land buildings' TL to 1-5, then naval ones to 6-10. So as to place land ones at the beginning of the sidebar, and naval ones at the end. Plus making an additional symbol for naval units' cameos, or maybe even new cameos.
The problem will be with new aircraft... hmmm, a naval symbol for them will be a bit silly... unless there would be different symbol for each category of units, and buildings.
Allied Naval ConYard + Oil Platform:
PS The left/first version of navalised Yuri buildings was chosen. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
thats nice,but can you post a buildup pic?. _________________ if you need help shpping,voxeling,doing 3ds,just call me on sm.949@hotmail.com QUICK_EDIT
There's enough copy/paste in those two pics to make the old CnP artists vomit.
I don't really get if that's good or bad. _________________ mentalomega.com Last edited by Speeder on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
There's enough copy/paste in those two pics to make the old CnP artists vomit.
Speeder wrote:
I don't really get if that's good or bad.
Yup, me too, too ambiguous.
Dark Templar X wrote:
It's bad. This is turning slowly into RA3... only worse.
Well, a matter of taste. Enjoyed as a little kid TD and RA1, these demos which were only accessible then (at least in my own country), then full vanilla ones of TS/RA2... and finally, TW and RA3.
For me there's no difference, except a load of bias against shitty antifans blaming EA for nothing or blaming EA just b/c it's EA.
Nobody is innocent, EA either.
The end of the topic. Reasons seen, known and so on. No point in discussing when antifans won't listen, and fans won't change tastes either. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I think you misunderstand me. I liked RA3. It was a lot of fun. There were some things about that irked me though. This is taking the things that were annoying and throwing it somewhere they don't belong.
There comes a point when you have to ask - "Is this necessary?" If that's a straight out no, don't put it in. There's too much going into this for little purpose.
What is the point for everything having a navalized version? Power plants I can understand but the rest? Not such a great idea honestly.
Theater version structures? Why? It's unnecessary bloat for no gain. All the pretty eye candy in the world does not make up for bad ideas and worse gameplay.
What is the point for everything having a navalized version? Power plants I can understand but the rest? Not such a great idea honestly.
Theater version structures? Why? It's unnecessary bloat for no gain. All the pretty eye candy in the world does not make up for bad ideas and worse gameplay.
Appearance, eyecandies are good when they can inspire.
Different theatre versions are aimed to be inspiring. Not only them, I'm making also new civilian buildings (pics on Moddb).
Why don't you see sense in naval buildings?
I said. They will be different, they will have more hps (or in the case of base defenses, more firepower). Additionally, subs will be able to take them down faster. There will be differences in gameplay. Especially if your opponent goes naval when you are stuck on the land...
You ask why. Why is nothing, when the Choice belongs to the author. You have nothing to say, if it means "why", unless something is completely useless to the point of absurdity, like adding teletubbies to the serious mod.
Your ignorance to reasons, sense and causes in all this doesn't excuse you. You have your reasons, fine.
But I've written what I'm about to do. More or less clearly.
If I could, I'd make also buildings rules depending on different theatre. AFAIK, I could make "Temperate theatre", "Lunar theatre" game modes (dunno if it's possible), so as to make them less eyecandy only, more reasonable.
E.g. desert theatre buildings would have less hps, but one would be able to build them much faster (rush/fast games).
Urban theatre buildings would be around 20% harder to build, but they would have about 25% more hitpoints.
Only temperate theatre rules wouldn't change (i.e. without messing with different properties of buildings).
THAT was the plan. I haven't tested it. I do nothing for eyecandy, unless there is no way to do anything additional - anything deeper.
As I said, I say again, naval buildings, naval path of buildings will be completely different. RA3 wasn't focused on naval battles only. No. I've played about 200 matches in multiplayer, but 2vs2, and some custom maps... almost no one has a naval battle only.
There always was too much land, too less water (apart from one asymmetrical map which name I cannot remember, and b/c of this asymmetry it wans't in regular online map circulation). No only water maps. No, no, War Factory and Barracks aren't that important! Could do without them, just to play a naval + air battle.
But no. Official mappers 've forgotten, 'screw too radical styles', well.
That's why. I won't change my mind in anything, except to focus more on gameplay, gamerules, and general playability of the mod.
Nothing for eyecandy. Just read twice what I've written. Read comments on Moddb. Then judge. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You can say it has a point all you want but that won't make the gameplay or idea any better or worse. Frankly, the idea is pretty silly and doesn't add anything to game play. Put shortly, it does not make the game more interesting.
This is the same as naval structures for everything. That would be more suited to the naval game mode but as part of general games, it floors game balance and stacks games for those who have a naval base instead of a conventional one. Not what I'd call a whole lot of fun if there's not at least a fair fight.
Seems as though the art of balance and gameplay is always lost in a sea of graphical masturbation. QUICK_EDIT
Shit, man. Naval buildings will have about 20% slower 'production' speed, and if general buildup will be implemented, and if it's possible, also 20% slower buildup.
Don't excuse your sucking or n00bing - everybody n00bs sometimes, only pros go further, and learn how to pull the strings.
Why?
If so, if opponents goes naval, you can easily build some airpads, start to pound your opponent with aircraft and effective rushes.
Age of Empires II experience.
Scout. Know where opponent goes.
Then rush him if unprepared or building something without any defenses.
-_-
So don't talk shit about gameplay. Gameplay and fun varies from one person to another. The end of this "why" talk.
There is two kinds of balancing:
1) equalising
2) imbalancing of both given opposites
Here going naval will be both easier and harder.
But only skillful will be able to both defend against early air attacks, and building more powerful naval base. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You're missing the difference between enhancing the gameplay and complicating the gameplay. You're making it needlessly complicated without adding any value.
You can rationalize it all you want by comparing it to other games, but you have to realize what RA2 was made for - ground warfare. That's the center on which RA2's gameplay delicately rests. Destroying that destroys the game, which then alienates fans of the game who want an enhanced experience, not something so different it's nearly unplayable. Quite likely, a lot of people will play it once with some of these ideas and never play it again because it drastically changed too much of the core of the game. As they would put it, "shit sucks, yo."
Now. If this was a total conversion, this would be different. QUICK_EDIT
Jesus Christ, you're speaking as if this was the only mod for the game. If one does not want increase of naval warfare meaning will just not play it. There's heck of enhancement mods for Yuri's Revenge.
And truth to be told, most players don't play mods in general so what's the big deal? _________________ mentalomega.com QUICK_EDIT
Dark Templar X just wants me to not mod the games, that's his point.
I say, STFU, b/c I can mod, it's my freedom and a right to do it.
Be aware Templar that I make mod for people who enjoy it.
If you don't plan to join the club of players, what's the point of your silly writing anything?
The core game must be changed. Something more is something good.
Servants doing what they're told are useless.
Servants doing more than they were asked for, and doing things reasonably, are precious.
Speeder is right, yup, there are a lot of mods out there. Templar you can pick other mod, no problem. Just stop spamming this page with your useless reasons or reasons which are against most people wishes.
This mod is for people who enjoy it - that's enough said.
Considering so many positive opinions for ASM here, and on Moddb - for which I thank them all very much, them all who appreciate the effort and ideas, striking some Dark Templar X (along with m7 and OmegaBolt) out is no big deal. It's quite a 'small deal'.
So I went, I go, I'll go with that. Democracy. No minocracy (i.e. MinorityCracy). And they chose to have naval warfare, to have different theatre buildings. Silent voting done.
PS If the mod comes out, you can take the resouces of the mod, make your own buildups, take out what you dislike, and publish your own version of the mod. No problem. But mine will be as I imagine, as I choose, and as people fans choose when the choice belongs to them.
I just know that you would be outvoted in a poll.
So this is the end of shitty talk.
You can decide with some 2 people what you want in a mod, in your own mod.
This mod belongs to fans + the author of it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
And truth to be told, most players don't play mods in general so what's the big deal?
Because that's where your fan base is rooted, players of the game. Modders don't generally play very many mods. I sure don't, not even popular ones like Robot Storm. I made a few exceptions here and there but I tend to play the vanilla game online or test my projects.
So. That's what the big deal is.
Do you think all of your fans mod the game, Speeder? Hardly. They are fans of the games, not modders.
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Dark Templar X just wants me to not mod the games, that's his point.
No it is not. You're just assuming this is my point. Never once have I referenced you directly, just your ideas, which are tenuous at best.
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I say, STFU, b/c I can mod, it's my freedom and a right to do it.
Where have I said you can't do this? Please point that out before you start indiscriminately posting ridiculous things.
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Be aware Templar that I make mod for people who enjoy it.
That would generally be the point, yes, but I don't see how this is in any way relevant to anything.
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If you don't plan to join the club of players, what's the point of your silly writing anything?
Oh, so because I might not play it, I'm not allowed to give any criticism? No, sorry, doesn't work that way. I believe the problem here is that you dislike any negative criticism towards your project. This turned out to be the same reason why you were so abject to m666 and I posting valid criticism about Drakon's project at ModDB. It seems obviously clear to me now.
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The core game must be changed. Something more is something good.
This is incorrectly, and false at best. It does not need to be changed. Apparently you've never heard of the "less is more" mantra.
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Speeder is right, yup, there are a lot of mods out there. Templar you can pick other mod, no problem. Just stop spamming this page with your useless reasons or reasons which are against most people wishes.
Posting valid criticism is not spam. Mindlessly sucking up as if your ideas should be lauded as great is quite a bit more spammy than an informed opinion.
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Considering so many positive opinions for ASM here, and on Moddb - for which I thank them all very much, them all who appreciate the effort and ideas, striking some Dark Templar X (along with m7 and OmegaBolt) out is no big deal. It's quite a 'small deal'.
You realize that most of the ModDB user base is comprised of bloodsucking parasites, attaching themselves to as many shitty mods as possible. Because, as it stands, your mod is shitty. There is nothing here that proves otherwise.
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So this is the end of shitty talk.
Says he who is entirely unable to consider an opposing opinion. I haven't seen you provide any real response to any of my opinions that actually counter what I've brought up. Not once have you expressed exactly how this enhances the gameplay rather than complicating it. QUICK_EDIT
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ASM
