Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:03 am Post subject:
The Real Red Alert 3
Subject description: EA screwed up the Red Alert series it is time to get it right
I know some of you are going to bitch and moan that RA3 is fine as it is but there are few old schoolers out there that does not appreciate what EA did to RA3. I'll save my argument on where EA screwed up later in another thread but now I need to know if this mod is even possible before I go further.
So far the storyline behind this mod is different from the one EA thought up of, instead of killing Einstien, taking the nukes from the Soviets and creating the Empire of the Sun (No Japs!) instead the Soviets create a last ditch effort to save themselves and this could spell the end of the Allies... (working on the storyline still)
Major changes:
I like how RA3 emphasized the navy this time but poorly executed. Seriously the Assault destroyer? Lame. Anyway I'm pretty sure there is plenty of programs out there to make new units and mod the original ones so some old favorites from RA2 will make a come back.
Return of ore fields. I know, I know you like not having to babysit the collectors but I'm old school and like some micromanaging plus its part of the strategy IMO. So is there anyway to make ore fields or do I need to heavily modify the ore mines?
Omitting the Japs. I want the Empire out of the equation. It's just Soviets versus Allies in this round.
Complete graphic overhaul. Ok I know the graphics look all shiny and cartoonish but seriously these units look like toys rather than warmachines. So is there a way that I make the graphics a little more grittier and more real?
I also need to know if it's possible to make Derrilects spawn units. I was thinking of a partisan system that when you go on a map that you can control the map's population centers by capturing certian structures that gives you civilian support to bring it under Capitalist or Communist influence.
Suggestions? _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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That's it? Seriously if I wanted really good advice I would really consider this forum...(obvious sarcasm)
I need help here people. I need answers and if I can't get them this is one piss port mod community. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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I know how to model, I've done some personal mods for CNC Generals before and they turned out ok. Back then the machine I used didn't have that great of a graphic card.
Anyway I doubt it'll take years I have some help I just need to know what I'm able to do as far as coding is concerned. I know it's all very ambitious but this is why I'm asking the questions so I know the limits. It is not a total conversion per say because I plan on building on top of some existing units. Our main focus now is graphic overhaul. We don't much care for the cartoonishness of the graphics we want something a little more real. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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If you want to know if your ideas will work or not try them out. RA3 is still a new game & very few ppl know the "limits" so I doubt you'll get much help. _________________
Bummer. Well it's hard for me to understand the coding language used in RA3 so I need someone to walk me through it. So far we're passed the drawing board phase I'd share the ideas if you like. We're not trying to get a handle on the graphics engine and trying to understand the coding and it looks pretty daunting.
We narrowed it down with just Allies and Soviets and trying to bring back some old school elements. Most of all we want to change the units and add some new ones and bring back old ones.
Here is what we have so far for the Allies:
Infantry
GI (and old favorite is back)
Guardian (not quite the same as the one from RA2)
Attack Dog (woof woof!)
Engineer (tools ready and deploys into med tent, we kept that part)
Spy (What's the Allies without their spy?)
Tanya (She's back this time a brunette like before. That blonde one... was scary if not too slutty for my liking. Just saying...)
Sentinel (A Prism soldier. I thought the chrono legionnaire would be too cliche)
Armor
Fastback IFV (another old favorite returns this time a little more meaner)
Centaur (the Allied MBT. We didn't much like the Guardian tank)
Thunder cannon (Shell based artillery that fires sonic shells)
Manticore AAV (An amphibious assault vehicle that transports troops across the drink and deploys into a mutli-purpose bunker)
Spectre tank (A stealth tank with a prism cannon. Apoc poppers)
Aircraft
Apollo fighter (A favorite among the original RA3 units. Maybe some graphic changes and instead of guns we're going to give them hard hitting missiles)
Valkyrie bomber (A slight change from the Vindicator except with guided missiles instead of bombs)
Warhammer gunship (An AC-130 type of platform that flies in a circle and rains death down on anyone below)
Raven helicopter (We hated the wimpy and useless cryocopter with a passion so we decided to give this puppy some teeth. The Raven specializes in electronic warfare)
Atlas bomber (The Allied Kirov if you will and doubles as a heavy transport)
Skycrane (the Allied base expansion unit)
Navy
Destroyer (Multi-role surface vessel. Akulas beware!)
Aegis Cruiser (THE ultimate anti-air unit)
Aircraft Carrier (Old favorite except meaner)
Riptide Submarine (finally something to replace those stupid dolphins)
Amphibious assault craft (landing craft basically) _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
<img src="http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd188/18932471/imgad2-1.png" border="0" Last edited by RedScare on Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
(Apologies for the double post but this is to keep things organized and not all jumbled up in one sitting)
This is the list of Soviet units:
Infantry
Conscript (the meat shield is back)
Flak trooper (A penal troop like RA3 intended)
Combat Engineer (an engineer with a pistol...I'm so scared...)
Attack dog (Sorry the bear had to go)
Tesla trooper (zappity zap-zap troopers)
Natasha (the smoky Russian beauty. I prefer Ukranian women though...)
Desolator (Decided to make this a standard unit. Mercury rising!)
Armor
Sickle patrol (We liked it)
Flak Trak (Like the old one from RA2)
Bullfrog AAPC (No longer a primary anti-air unit but it retains its amphibious abilities and carries troops)
Hammer tank (Completely redone graphics wise but we decided to make it a heavy tank by default over the Centaur. Russians likes their armor...)
Apocalypse tank (rolling twin barrels of death is back and yes with anti-air abilities this time. Thank you EA for screwing it up)
V4 rockets (We gave the launchers a minor facelift but same unit all around)
Tesla tank (This time a multi-task unit and a standard unit)
Sputnik (We couldn't help it but to keep this little guy with the exception of a complete graphic overhaul)
Airforce
Kirov (the indestructable zepplin of doom returns)
MIG (An all gun fighter, its cheap but it's no Apollo)
Twinblade (We likes this unit very much only that we gave it a few changes)
Navy
Dreadnought (terror of the seas has returned)
Akula sub (like the hammer tank we liked the name and concept but it was butt ugly)
Stingray (This one needed a lot of work. We took away its amphibious abilities and we decided to make it a dedicated surface to surface vessel)
Corvette (Anti-air and light anti-surface, mostly used for scouting)
Armored landing craft (A heavy landing craft armed with a light gun)[/u] _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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Seriously if I wanted really good advice I would really consider this forum...(obvious sarcasm)
I need help here people. I need answers and if I can't get them this is one piss port mod community.
With an attitude like that, you're not going to get very far.
As much as I'd like to assist you in the various coding aspects of RA3, the principles behind your mod go against every one of my views and opinions of the game. Call me narrow-minded and selfish if you must, but that's just how I feel about it.
I will however, clarify these:
RedScare wrote:
So is there anyway to make ore fields or do I need to heavily modify the ore mines?
Slye_Fox has attempted this, and IIRC it is impossible to bring back fully working resource field logic into RA3.
RedScare wrote:
Warhammer gunship (An AC-130 type of platform that flies in a circle and rains death down on anyone below)
You will encounter some difficulty in getting an aircraft to fly around in a circle when attacking. The coding used for the Harbinger Gunship in Uprising is absent from vanilla RA3, so the closest you will get is making it either hover while attacking, or fly in a figure 8 pattern over the target. Neither of which are particularly good for a gunship aircraft.
RedScare wrote:
wimpy and useless cryocopter
I dare say that's the first time that I've heard the Cryocopter being referred to as wimpy, let alone useless. I assume you don't play RA3 online often? It's a right pain in the backside for the Empire when you're up against these tricky buggers. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
i'm feeling like this guy is a newbie... with the whole "this game sucks crap"
RedScare, My advice is don't go to far over your head with this one mate you have potentail but if you add too much to might not get the mod finshed so be carefull okay. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
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Well, if you ask me there really isn't much to do with Red Alert... a -third- time around if you ask me, in the way of storyline. You'd assume that just maybe the idiots in the Allied nations would disband the USSR or reinstall a Tsar. I say don't even bother with a storyline and just focus on making a good multiplayer.
As for the units.. I see a lot of Red Alert 2 units there like the AEGIS and the Flak Track. I liked RA3, but it was not the greatest C&C ever (to be quite fair though I don't like any at this point), however I don't see the point in re-using RA2's concepts.... some of RA2's units were hideous or just boring. Flak Track voxel, anyone? _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Warhammer gunship (An AC-130 type of platform that flies in a circle and rains death down on anyone below)
You will encounter some difficulty in getting an aircraft to fly around in a circle when attacking. The coding used for the Harbinger Gunship in Uprising is absent from vanilla RA3, so the closest you will get is making it either hover while attacking, or fly in a figure 8 pattern over the target. Neither of which are particularly good for a gunship aircraft.
Cant you use the Sky-Wing Locomotor for that? I know on ModDB there is a Fix to the harbringer like that. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Because it sounds like every other bitch and complain thread by Westwood fanboys who can't take their damn nostalgia goggles off? _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I am using Uprising, I should have been a little more specific...
Oh Volgin it's not nostalgia goggles it's making a game that is actually worth a damn and not the piece of crap made from EA. Well it's obvious you don't know what a good game is when it's staring you in the face. Don't waste my time little man. Oh and if it wasn't for RA2 there wouldn't be a RA3 so think before you shoot your mouth off and I'd take that ego of yours and shove it where the sun don't shine.
DaFool I considered modding Tiberium Wars but it lacks an engine to support naval battles that you see in the Red Alert series unless someone had made a mod introducing naval units, I appreciate some input. Also I've asked a similar question on this forum earlier and I didn't get much support.
Dubzac it seems you're afraid to embrace a new idea. Yes call me a noob or whatever come down my level on RA2 and I'll school you worse than a South Korean Zerg player on Starcraft (trust me those guys are serious business)
But since everyone on here thinks that old school Westwood fan boys are stupid and have their "nostalgia goggles" then I'm better off going to another forum where they're not in bed with EA.
Thanks for nothing.[/quote] _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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Are you absolutley sure TW doesn't support navy? Because I didn't think generals did either, but add a locomotor, and hey, you get boats. You already have those amphibious transports, so you can use that as a base. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
TW's water is an object or something, its not actually a terrain form like RA3 either so that could hinder any attempts at a navy. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Are you absolutley sure TW doesn't support navy? Because I didn't think generals did either, but add a locomotor, and hey, you get boats. You already have those amphibious transports, so you can use that as a base.
I'm not sure about anything in that criteria I just know I haven't seen any active naval units on TW, not even in the campaigns. Those ships you see are stationary.
Volgin has a point about the water on TW is not really considered a terrain form like RA3.
Yet even if you could do what DaFool said the maps are bit small to make a navy practical. I don't know we've toyed with the idea of making a RA3 mod for TW for some time but we kept getting road blocks. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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Wait a second there's no mod support for Uprising yet?
Damn we got to doubleback on some of our ideas.
Also what about using TW for this though? I need something that would be easier in the long term. We can model, texture and script a few things but we haven't got a handle on the coding yet. We have more understanding of TW however but the lack of navy terrain is creating a roadblock. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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try moding gererals first RedScare then move form there. im not saying to cannel your mod by no means.
But scale it down for a test mod first by going for well known and older versions.
since your making a a Half TC it will take shit loads of testing, programs, etc. you know the drill. there is far more content, than when i starting modding i can assure you. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
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There's just a bug that messes it up, but 2POC has promised to get the dev team to fix this bug.
If your curious what the bed is; empty piles of ore don;t remove themselves, so miners continue to mine them and not move on. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Good to see the ability to get ore and say tiberium fields working again is awesome, since that would be a pivotal point for any good C&C modification:)
I am sure this simple "design flaw due to developers/designers not properly understanding C&C core mechanics" should be fixable .
EA did release the RA3 SDK in record time, so I am also pretty sure that they will work on a fix which will allow the player to add on this mandatory ability to hes or her mod/s. QUICK_EDIT
Generals is so bland now that I can't stomach doing a mod that already exists essentially. There is already a Red Alert 3 mod for Generals.
Also I've been getting word from other forums that I'm better off doing this on TW. I might put this whole thing on hold until something better comes around. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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"doing this on TW" a completely dumb idea that requires more work than necessary. While we're at it, let's do a direct recreation of RA2 on TS's engine. Oh, wait...
The very fact you got all up in arms over our criticisms of your mod and now are jumping boat because you can't be assed to put real effort in your projects shows how seriously you can be taken.
obtw, RA3 to RA2 mods are lame. Just play RA2 if you want it so badly the same. EA making something new and taking a chance apparently is a bad idea.
Note to EA: Stop making CnCs so these butthurt fanboys will complain about something else. At least a a lack of new games would make them do something else than complain then go out and buy the bad product they complained about 3 months ago. Either way: YOU ARE STILL EVIL!!! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:06 am Post subject:
RedScare wrote:
Generals is so bland now that I can't stomach doing a mod that already exists essentially. There is already a Red Alert 3 mod for Generals.
Also I've been getting word from other forums that I'm better off doing this on TW. I might put this whole thing on hold until something better comes around.
Just wait till he tries to convince you that RA2 Aircraft Carrier looked better than the RA3 Aircraft Carrier, that RA2 was a serious game and wasn't at all cartoony, and the Flak Track voxel looked 'realistic' _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Actually smartass I hated the design of the RA2 carrier because it reminded me of a Euro carrier. The RA3 carrier looks better IMO.
Also RA2 graphics are dated so I didn't see all that much cartoony feel in RA2 as of RA3. RA3 made my eyes bleed because of over shinny graphics. I mean come on the grass reflected just as good as the water. Plastic grass? What?
I just hate many of the designs that EA did for RA3.
All I'm saying EA did a piss port job on RA3. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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Over shiny graphics in RA3? I just lol'd hard. You're welcome to look at the horrific brightness of the terrain or soviet vehicles in RA2. Or the normals. Those are pretty bad too. QUICK_EDIT
Actually smartass I hated the design of the RA2 carrier because it reminded me of a Euro carrier. The RA3 carrier looks better IMO.
Wow, what made you change your mind? That's not what you told me on the official forums:
RedScare wrote:
TX1138 wrote:
RedScare wrote:
Allied ships look a bit 'dumpy' to me. Bubbly inflatables that would look better if they had a few more sharp edges or if they were elonggated a bit more to look less round
The Aircraft Carrier is rather nice. A bit small, but otherwise a rather nicly detailed and semi-realistic model.
Thats cute M7. Way to mock my mod there you snide bastard. Not that I care anymore though, RA 1.5 is pretty much dead. C&C is very, VERY boring to me these days.(Sans APB when Cold Fusion is released.) I won't lie though, watching C&C4 ztype up is very amusing. You will agree, neh?
Also, Generals is a fine engine unless you try to do something like put older C&C build mechanics on it...
edit: Holy mother of God. I just remembered how bright Red Alert Two really is by clicking that link. My Eyes! _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I remmber teh briht shenny graphics from RA2but oh wait it was really shiny it was bright because of the 2.5D graphciwhich used smaller color templater..
i hate cartoons...those cartoons with the bright flashy things btw jus to lety ou kno _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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I remmber teh briht shenny graphics from RA2but oh wait it was really shiny it was bright because of the 2.5D graphciwhich used smaller color templater..
So did TS, and we all know how bright and cartoony that game was. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I remmber teh briht shenny graphics from RA2but oh wait it was really shiny it was bright because of the 2.5D graphciwhich used smaller color templater..
So did TS, and we all know how bright and cartoony that game was.
I was a little buzzed but I think someone said TS was better at base building? Maybe until a Mammoth Mk.II marches to your base.
TS and RA2 had a similar graphics engine with the exception RA2 used a slightly more updated version and they used a lighter color template to try to make that cartoonish feel. Now that being said with later and updated graphics RA3 beats you over the head with the cartoonishness.
All I want is to tone it down some. _________________ a title="Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybernations.net/">
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Do you have any idea what you're saying? The palettes are almost identical between TS and RA2.
Anyway, if you want to tone down cartoonishness then you don't even need to remove units. All you need to do is give them a little more plausibility. A tweak of the model here, a re-texture there, etc will do the trick.
Take for instance the Soviet and Allied voxels by shin.peter.pan in the media hut. The units aren't changed in their roles - the apoc is still the apoc, but they look much more daunting, much more plausible.
By all means, remove the 'toonishness. Just please stop the constant prejudice against members, companies and games which are so common place around here. QUICK_EDIT
Ooh, subtle plug for your mod there, hey Sly_Fox? But at any rate, a lot of the cartoonishness from RA3 emanates from the overly bright lighting, bloom shader, and the additional colour saturation from the LookupTable. So really, no matter how 'realistic' the unit models are, they will still look rather cartoony. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Mind you, the Allied models are pretty tame in terms of cartoonishness when compared to the bulbous retro-future look of the RA3 Soviets. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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The Real Red Alert 3
