Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:27 am Post subject:
Advanced Q&A
Questions below in code are already answered*
Code:
Q: Is there any way to adjust the Z value of a turret (vertical height)? TurretAnimZAdjust and similars only works for buildings. I used to adjust the vertical height by actually going into the HVA editor and moving the entire voxel up, but obviously, adjusting and testing that can get very inconvenient.
A: Can't.
Q: Also, been trying to figure this out for a long time. How do you edit it so the source of fire comes from two points, like how the apocalypses' twin cannons do?
A: Burst = 2, PrimaryWeaponFLH, change L to x, x != 0, twin burst will shoot from x and -x.
Q: And finally, I've been trying to make it so aircraft (using the cargo plane for now) fire in a straight line, like strafing. What happens is, my cargo plane when it shoots its cluster bomb weapon, is that it flys around in circles continuously around it's target to fire it's weapon, and not only does it make it look really stupid, it also makes it really hard to force fire on. And what happens, is that when I try to paradrop units with it, it does the same thing, it drops infantry while flying around in crazy circles instead of dropping them in a straight line.
A: ROF = 0 or 1, Projectile != invisible.
Q: I definitely remember seeing an aircraft actually lift a tank on the plane's underside, like how a pelican in Halo can lift a Scorpion Tank and drop it off somewhere. No clue what tag does that. What tag does that?
A: Carryall=yes
Q: I know in one of the campaigns that you get paradropped tanks. Soviet mission, from RA2, I think. Tried doing that, but it doesn't work. Had to change my parabombs to an infantry type also because of it.
EDIT: Hmm, so when a plane is carryall'ing a tank, and I force fire somewhere, it actually paradrops the tank! Awesome. Still want to know how to paradrop the tank from inside the tank, as opposed to from the carryall.
A: Can only use dummy weapon to paradrop a carryall'd tank. Because the tank can't go in the plane. Don't care about paradrop tanks anymore anyways.
Q: On the topic of AOE weapons: Why do they do more damage on buildings? For example, a weapon that does 100 damage with 0 cellspread will do significantly less damage on a large building (Conyard) than a 100 damage weapon with 5 cellspread. Reallllyyy annoyyiinnggggg.
Is there any way to negate that, without reducing cellspread or the warhead verses? Because reducing cellspread takes away the point of having a large cellspread weapon, and reducing verses still makes attacking buildings very inconsistent, as a flak cannon will practically take no damage compared to a war factory if attacked by a large AOE weapon.
A: AOE weapons apply damage to each affect cell based on cellspread as if each part of the building were a separate unit. Treat a conyard, for example, as a 16 buildings in one, and apply damage to each one of them based on cellspread damage fading, then add it up to get the total damage that would be received by the conyard.
Q: Any way to make projectiles fire in a straight line to the target? I know how to make weapons fire in a straight line from the ground to the ground where the target is standing, and that's how torpedos work, and obviously know how to arc projectiles down, but is there any way to fire in a straight line down at the target? My scorpion tank has no projectile line at all between it and the explosion at the target.
A: In the projectiles tag: Arcing=false, ROT=1, Acceleration>=50.
Team some guy, you are awesome.
Q: Why, when a plane strafing/overruns to shoot a target, it always shoots 5 times before turning around to shoot 5 times again? Why 5? Any way to change that?
A: Hardcoded. Isn't changeable.
Not answered yet:
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Q: Why don't units/buildings have to be declared in the UnitTypes/InfantryTypes/etc section first for it to work, but weapons/projectiles/warheads/etc don't?
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Q: So I now know how to straight line fire. But I'm trying to fix these little errors:
Projectile will hit the cliff edge when firing below. That's not a problem, that's obviously natural. The only problem is that the tank won't try to correct itself when it does.
Sometimes, when firing at a direction that isn't towards where the turret is aiming at, it kind of "pre-fires" and hits a spot near the target. Only happens the first time though, and only sometimes. Minor, but noted.
Not sure if this has anything to do with straight line firing, but that white trailed projectile I use from the IFV missiles, when I fire the scorpion's cannons, this is what happens:
Muzzle animation*, white trail travels to target*, explosion*
The white trail though, often disappears right outside the explosion, instead of going into the target. And also, it doesn't travel "down" at the target. It goes flat forward, and the explosion's center is vertically below the white trail's trajectory. Looks kind of weird.
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Q: Trying to figure out a few things for fire weapons. I just recently started coming back to Red Alert 2 modding, after like 4 years of quitting. Was 14 years old back then, hah. Trying to make a continuous stream of fire for my flamethrower weapon, but the ROF doesn't control the ROF, probably because it uses FireStreamSys. I also tried increasing the fire's lifetime to some big number like 999999 so it would be continuous, but then, it keeps on firing even after the target's dead. How do you make a continuous stream of fire?
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Q: Was wondering if there's any Halo sounds up for download. Because I made a few Halo units into my mod, but the sound effects are terrible. The sound for the scorpion's machine gun as of right now, uses a fast repeating sound of the conscripts carbine. XD Nothing like it. And the battle rifle weapon uses the Colt .45 (Tanya's weapon) firing sound as the 3 round burst.
I can always record the sounds. For single shot weapons like the Scorpion's main cannon, it's easy. For faster repeating weapons, it's hard. I've been trying forever to find a way to get a good sound effect for the battle rifle, 3 shot burst. 2 ways I figure I might do:
1) Record each individual shot of the 3 round burst, and play them 3 times when the weapon fires. Unfortunately, it's really hard to record and cut out only the one shot from the 3 round burst. My ears simply cannot distinguish the difference of sounds in a 0.1 second time span #Tongue
2) Record the sound of the 3 round burst, and when the BR with burst=3 fires, only let the sound play once per weapon firing (3 round burst firing). I could easily set the limit in sounds.ini to 3, but then there's no way for multiple battle rifle bursts to be heard.
I'm leaning toward the 2nd way, since the sound will sound far more natural. But I have no clue how.
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Q: Forum Related:
-Is there any bbcode for spoiler boxes, or strikethroughs in this forum?
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Thanks for any help. Last edited by patric20878 on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:19 am; edited 18 times in total QUICK_EDIT
I'm not that familiar with RA2 modding, but I'm sure there are people who could help. Just be patient.
Though this I can help with:
Quote:
How do you edit it so the source of fire comes from two points, like how the apocalypses' twin cannons do?
There's a file called art.INI. Open it, and search for MTNK (IIRC that's Apoc section's name). There you'll find a flag called "PrimaryFireFLH". This tells the offset of the primary weapon fire, with F being the offset for "Front", L for Lateral and H for Height. If the primary weapon has Burst=2 (so it fires two shots consecutively), and L's value in PrimaryFireFLH is a positive integer x, the weapon projectiles will come out from points x and -x. For further information, see this.
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject:
halo
well, not a halo fan and don't know if halo is even for the computer, but if you have the halo game here's a thought...what if you ran your game audio cable through a stereo system that could copy audio then run it through your computer and save it as wav file. then you could add the sounds to the game as long as you mod the sound.ini file......i think my friend gave me a copy of halo when he gave me his xbox, if so maybe i can pull some sounds off when i have the chance _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
Crimmy, he's referring to an alternating FireFLH in connection with firestream particlesystems and this is unfortunately "not really" possible.
Because a weapon can only fire again, once the attached particlesystem has disappeared. Only then it'll switch to the other side of the FireFLH. The problem that this almost never works ingame is that, while the firestream shoots the first Burst, the target often moves out of the firing range, which causes your unit to move and start again firing with the first Burst, instead of switching to the second burst and firing from the opposite side.
The only way to make this work a bit better, is reducing the duration of a single firestream, and this way give the unit the chance to fire faster the second burst before the target has left the firing range or is destroyed.
Now to your questions patric:
1. Continous stream of fire as long as the target exists:
As you've already found out, has the particlesystem a fixed duration over which it is fired, regardless if the target still exists or not.
Thus you can only use a weapon without a particlesystem and with a very fast ROF (or multiple Bursts). Then you have to make each projectile look like a single flamethrower flame, so that the combined multiple shots look like a complete flamethrower stream.
e.g. a weapon with Speed=5 so the flames move slow and a projectile with ROT=1, so the flames move in a straight line over the ground. You can also use ROT=0 and Arcing=true so it moves in a small ballistic curve to the target
2. Adjusting turret height.
As you've mentioned, it can only be done via adjusting the hva.
3. Halo sounds up for download.
Not that i know of. But if you have Halo or download them as wav/mp3, you can use XCC Mixer to convert them into the C&C aud format (used by TS/FS). Though i have no experience in RA2 modding and IIRC does RA2 use a different or compressed format.
4. Aircraft overrun attacks:
An overrun attack or shuffle attack is controlled by the weapons projectile.
let me quote myself from another topic. This was for TS but the same is true for RA2 which also has the projectile Invisible2
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The projectile Invisible2 is used by the Harpy only.
You can simply remove the key Inviso=yes and set ROT=0 to give it an MG overrun attack.
with Inviso=yes the aircraft shuffles between shots, regardless of the set ROT
with Inviso=no and ROT=0 or ROT=1 the aircraft performs the overrun attacks.
doing an overrun attack
with ROT=0, some shots miss the target
with ROT=1, all shots hit the target
So to give your aircraft an overrun attack, just change the ClusterBombP ROT=40 down to ROT=1 or ROT=0
There's a file called art.INI. Open it, and search for MTNK (IIRC that's Apoc section's name). There you'll find a flag called "PrimaryFireFLH". This tells the offset of the primary weapon fire, with F being the offset for "Front", L for Lateral and H for Height. If the primary weapon has Burst=2 (so it fires two shots consecutively), and L's value in PrimaryFireFLH is a positive integer x, the weapon projectiles will come out from points x and -x. For further information, see this.
Btw, welcome to PPM!
Oh, wow, that's easy, haha. Thanks!
@Lin Kuei:
Actually, I meant "fire" to be shooting, not literally fire. Sorry for the confusion.
1. Hmm, could do that as last resort I guess. Not too excited about the arcing down though. But maybe I could also try adjusting the ROF for the firestream particles? Because it does stop shooting between every "stream" of fire. The ROF in the weapons tag doesn't adjust it, but surely there must be something that adjusts ROF for particle systems?
2. Ah well. Tedious >.>
3. Yeah, I can always record it. For single shot weapons like the Scorpion's main cannon, it's easy. For faster repeating weapons, it's hard. I've been trying forever to find a way to get a good sound effect for the battle rifle, 3 shot burst. 2 ways I figure I might do:
1) Record each individual shot of the 3 round burst, and play them 3 times when the weapon fires. Unfortunately, it's really hard to record and cut out only the one shot from the 3 round burst. My ears simply cannot distinguish the difference of sounds in a 0.1 second time span
2) Record the sound of the 3 round burst, and when the BR with burst=3 fires, only let the sound play once. I could easily set the limit to 1, but then there's no way for multiple battle rifle sounds to be heard.
I'm leaning toward the 2nd way, since the sound will sound far more natural. But I have no clue how.
4. So it only has to do with weapon properties, not unit ones? Wow, nice. Thanks so much; I went crazy over that back in 2004 before I quit (and started modding RA2 now again) XD
Dang, I was like, 13 years old back in 2004! Too bad I lost my RA2/YR mod years ago, and so gave up.
Now I'm working back up from this age old beta of my mod I somehow still had in my email.
Quote:
Fighter=
Can be set to 'yes' or 'no' and is used to set a flag on an AircraftType provided it has the 'fly' Locomotor=. In that case, setting this to 'yes' specifies that the aircraft should strafe over its target rather than hover above it to attack, thus ignoring the ROF= on its weapon(s).
Pulled from Deezire's editing guide. Isn't that tag kind of redundant/useless then?
Speaking of that, the bombers in my mod do strafe instead of shuffle. It drops 5 bombs, carpet bombing style, despite it only having one ammo though. It's not a burst weapon either. Same with the cluster bombs, once I made it overrun, and like every overrun weapon. Is that hardcoded, or is it somewhere in Rules.ini that I can change?
Thanks so much for your help, guys!
Have more questions, if that's OK.
I'll update my original topic post too, for new readers.
Any way to make projectiles fire in a straight line to the target? I know how to make weapons fire in a straight line from the ground to the ground where the target is standing, and that's how torpedos work, and obviously know how to arc projectiles down, but is there any way to fire in a straight line down at the target? My scorpion tank has no projectile line at all between it and the explosion at the target.
Any way to put tanks in a cargo plane like infantry can go in flak tracks? Cursor said tanks can enter, but tanks don't enter it. It just goes near the cargo plane and sits there.
And also, I definitely remember seeing an aircraft actually lift a tank on the plane's underside, like how a pelican in Halo can lift a Scorpion Tank and drop it off somewhere. No clue what tag does that. I remember a tag called CarryAll=yes years ago, but yeah, that was years ago, and now my RA2/YR modding knowledge is all rusty now :/
I know in one of the campaigns that you get paradropped tanks. Soviet mission, from RA2, I think. Tried doing that, but it doesn't work. Had to change my parabombs to an infantry type also because of it.
(Unrelated) Comment: Wow, I just remember an idea I was going to do long ago. Chain lightning, from Diablo 2. XD
Will need lots of dummy units for all those weapon fragments*
On the topic of AOE weapons: Why do they do more damage on buildings? For example, a weapon that does 100 damage with 0 cellspread will do significantly less damage on a large building (Conyard) than a 100 damage weapon with 5 cellspread. Reallllyyy annoyyiinnggggg.
Is there any way to negate that, without reducing cellspread or the warhead verses? Because reducing cellspread takes away the point of having a large cellspread weapon, and reducing verses still makes attacking buildings very inconsistent, as a flak cannon will practically take no damage compared to a war factory if attacked by a large AOE weapon.
Forum Related:
Is there an introduction section in this forum?
Why isn't the post count displayed? Kind of makes it hard to know who's a senior member or not.
Is there any bbcode for spoiler boxes, or strikethroughs in this forum? Last edited by patric20878 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
I think if you remove the Fighter=yes tag you'll have better results with the ROF. I think Fighter=yes overides your ROF settings in the weapons, and I also believe that is what causes the plane to "circle" around it's target. but from the looks of your code you have it mainly set for transport so that tag isnt really necessary.
Well, from what I learned, circling around is because of the ROT and invisibility of the projectile, as Lin Kuei just said. Fighter=yes doesn't override your ROF in the weapons either.
Original topic done updating with questions* QUICK_EDIT
Q: Was wondering if aircraft can carry tanks, since when I try to put a tank in there, it just goes next to it and doesn't enter. And the size limit is 3, so I don't know why.
Carryal=yes but am not sure it's written like this.
it's only one tank with this.
and
Quote:
Q: I definitely remember seeing an aircraft actually lift a tank on the plane's underside, like how a pelican in Halo can lift a Scorpion Tank and drop it off somewhere. No clue what tag does that. What tag does that?
EDIT: if a weapon exists in the plane,it will shoot the passengers parachuted down when it fires,remove the weapon or maybe caryall solves it.
Q:Any way to make projectiles fire in a straight line to the target? I know how to make weapons fire in a straight line from the ground to the ground where the target is standing, and that's how torpedos work, and obviously know how to arc projectiles down, but is there any way to fire in a straight line down at the target? My scorpion tank has no projectile line at all between it and the explosion at the target.
Q: I know in one of the campaigns that you get paradropped tanks. Soviet mission, from RA2, I think. Tried doing that, but it doesn't work. Had to change my parabombs to an infantry type also because of it.
if you want more than 1 tank:
size limit must be like 5 so even the hugest tank could do it,also around the passengers,it must be like 6 or more(e.x: MTNK has size =2,so you can put 3 mtnk because 3x2=6,or 2 mtnk + 2 infantry).
note:you can only use one method at a time,if caryall=yes is on,either it well carry infantry or just one tank,not even if you loaded them first.
Quote:
Q: On the topic of AOE weapons: Why do they do more damage on buildings? For example, a weapon that does 100 damage with 0 cellspread will do significantly less damage on a large building (Conyard) than a 100 damage weapon with 5 cellspread. Reallllyyy annoyyiinnggggg.
Is there any way to negate that, without reducing cellspread or the warhead verses? Because reducing cellspread takes away the point of having a large cellspread weapon, and reducing verses still makes attacking buildings very inconsistent, as a flak cannon will practically take no damage compared to a war factory if attacked by a large AOE weapon.
why is because every cell of the building takes the ammount of damage that the weapon does,pretty real if you want to know,there is no helping from me,i think that Ares will solve it anyway. _________________
the only one around here that i'd like to call big brother is LKO QUICK_EDIT
@Superluigi:
Meh, too bad you can't use both methods at once. Though it wouldn't work anyways. When I carry infantry, it will drop all of them individually on the ground instead of paradrop them. I guess I'll have two planes: one with 9 slots, size limit being 1, to paradrop infantry, and another one with size limit 3 to carryall tanks only.
Though, is there any tag to set the minimum size limit?
Also, I updated questions in the first post. Read please. QUICK_EDIT
Good for ModEnc. I just tested it out, again, and no, Fighter=yes still doesn't affect my ROF in any way. Neither does not having that tag make my planes not strafe. QUICK_EDIT
...which is said, in a giant red box, in the header of that page.
Then again, seeing who cited "ModEnc" there, it's unsurprising that "small detail" fell under the table...
We have 1306 DeeZire definitions left which need checking and rewriting. And since people always just cite, cite, cite instead of getting their asses up and actually helping with ModEnc, you'll come across situations like these a lot.
People like patric20878 are directly responsible for it, too. He knows what the page says, he knows it's wrong, he knows where it is, he has tested for the actual effects, and yet, I don't see any recent changes to that page.
ModEnc was explicitly designed to remove the problem of not being able to change the Guide's definitions when they prove to be wrong. It's easy to edit. You don't even have to register. If people just actually went and corrected false information instead of sitting here and whining about it being incorrect, it would stop being incorrect, helping all of us.
But nooo, instead we just get "Good for ModEnc, that's wrong", and that's that.
We're not responsible for DZ's definitions, and the same giant, red header crevio failed to mention clearly says "this article is subject to a re-write and update with the latest community knowledge".
You know where the info is. You know you can change it. If you need help with the process, we'll be glad to help. But don't just sit there and lament it being wrong when you're too lazy to update it yourself.
That very attitude is the reason so many pages are still unchecked. _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
...which is said, in a giant red box, in the header of that page.
Then again, seeing who cited "ModEnc" there, it's unsurprising that "small detail" fell under the table...
We have 1306 DeeZire definitions left which need checking and rewriting. And since people always just cite, cite, cite instead of getting their asses up and actually helping with ModEnc, you'll come across situations like these a lot.
People like patric20878 are directly responsible for it, too. He knows what the page says, he knows it's wrong, he knows where it is, he has tested for the actual effects, and yet, I don't see any recent changes to that page.
ModEnc was explicitly designed to remove the problem of not being able to change the Guide's definitions when they prove to be wrong. It's easy to edit. You don't even have to register. If people just actually went and corrected false information instead of sitting here and whining about it being incorrect, it would stop being incorrect, helping all of us.
But nooo, instead we just get "Good for ModEnc, that's wrong", and that's that.
We're not responsible for DZ's definitions, and the same giant, red header crevio failed to mention clearly says "this article is subject to a re-write and update with the latest community knowledge".
You know where the info is. You know you can change it. If you need help with the process, we'll be glad to help. But don't just sit there and lament it being wrong when you're too lazy to update it yourself.
That very attitude is the reason so many pages are still unchecked.
I don't know what this rant is about.
And the person who cited ModEnc wasn't me. I simply said that his cite was wrong. I don't know what ModEnc is, so don't assume I know what any "page" is about. I only know what he cited, and I said his cite was wrong. I only use Deezire's INI editing guide for occasional reference. Obviously, I have no ability to care about and edit anything that I have never heard of before.
I quit modding in 2004-2005, like 5 years ago. I just restarted modding again like 5 days ago. Read the above posts, and you'd be hinted at the fact that I'm way out of date on the CnC world.
Quote:
People like patric20878 are directly responsible for it, too. He knows what the page says, he knows it's wrong, he knows where it is, he has tested for the actual effects, and yet, I don't see any recent changes to that page.
Don't assume things about people you have never met. QUICK_EDIT
You have been given the quote -> you know what the page says.
You have been given the source of the quote -> you know where it is.
No assumption made there.
In addition, ModEnc has been up since August 04, so having been gone since "2004-2005" really doesn't mean it's automatically unfamiliar to you.
I never claimed you were the person who cited ModEnc, either...don't know where you got that idea.
I don't wanna argue about this, I primarily came here to fix crevio's blatant disregard of the giant, red disclaimer above the text he attributed to us, but I stand by my point: It would be a lot more helpful if, instead of dismissing sources as wrong, you would go forward and say what's right. Even if you don't know about ModEnc, posting an updated, corrected, more detailed description of what Fighter= does here, or even a description of all test cases that conclusively proves it does nothing, would be a lot more helpful to everyone than just assuming it's redundant by default and then dismissing the commonly accepted description without any proof of your findings at all. (Which, by the way, poses the problem of confirmation bias.)
The Guide is very, very much not infallible. It is quite possible you are correct in your assumption. But screenshots, videos, testcases or at least the damn code you used to test would make it a lot easier for everyone else to assess whether you might be right and we have to fix the description, or whether there was an issue with your testing.
Right now, what you're doing is not helpful. On one hand, you're shedding doubt on the accepted description of the flag, on the other hand, you're not giving the rest of us enough information to craft a new one. All you're doing is complain "this is wrong". So those who have read this thread will not trust the documentation anymore, while those who didn't read the thread will happily continue citing a potentially wrong description, and those of us trying to keep the documentation up to date will ultimately have to go through a redundant cycle of tests (or read the game code), just to provide clarity, with the danger that, if Fighter=yes is proven to do what it is being said to do, people still don't believe it, because they have heard here, from you, that that description is wrong.
That sucks for everyone involved, and is not helping answering your original question, either. Would you not feel better about your assessment if 20+ other people had tested and confirmed it?
So would you please provide more information for the rest of us, so we can, unitedly, come to a conclusion what Fighter=yes actually does, and update the documentation accordingly? _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
Ever occurred to you that I don't know what Fighter does?
Maybe you haven't read, but what Fighter does isn't even a question of mine. That's not even something I brought up. What am I supposed to do, besides say that it doesn't work? If I knew about such an ModEnc, and cared to help it, maybe I would, by perhaps making a new topic? Hmm?
Quote:
You have been given the quote -> you know what the page says.
You have been given the source of the quote -> you know where it is.
Your assumption is that I know what it is. I don't care where it is or what it says. Deezire's INI guide says just about the same thing. For all I know when I posted that, ModEnc could've been another forum that I had to make an account on. Apparently it's a wikipedia thing.
If you want to talk about helpful, go consider first how this Fighter=yes thing shouldn't even be in this topic. It clearly has nothing to do with my original questions.
And really, I don't have any problem being helpful. I just have a problem with you being demanding, instead of asking to help. Do you really think the rant was necessary? How do you like it when people demand you to voluntarily help, instead of ask, and to top that off, rant about it?
It's a simple answer that it doesn't work. It's not meant to be a useful comment, it's just a remark. Please don't come demanding that others provide volunteer help about things they don't know about. Demanding is rude.
Now really, on that Fighter part then. Again, I don't know what it does, and I only used those unit stats posted in the first post, so I won't update ModEnc. But I will give the variables I did it on.
Refer to my first post; Same unit stats, 8 tests.
Conditions:
ROT for ClusterBombP: 1
Fighter=yes, ClusterBomb's ROF=10
Fighter=yes, ClusterBomb's ROF=50
Fighter=no, ClusterBomb's ROF=10
Fighter=no, ClusterBomb's ROF=50
Every time, Fighter being yes and no, ROF is exactly what it says, either 10 or 50. ROF is never ignored in all 8 tests. Last edited by patric20878 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
You realize that there are only 24 hours in a normal day, and DCoder already has enough on his modding plate (tasty, tasty Ares) without personally editing EVERY ModEnc definition. It was originally from DeeZire's modding guide, which is full of errors. A fact which ModEnc TELLS you. If you have the knowledge and the prose to rewrite all the remaining definitions, do so. Apparently there are 1306 left to rewrite.
Quote:
Q: On the topic of AOE weapons: Why do they do more damage on buildings? For example, a weapon that does 100 damage with 0 cellspread will do significantly less damage on a large building (Conyard) than a 100 damage weapon with 5 cellspread. Reallllyyy annoyyiinnggggg.
This is because the zero cell spread does 100 damage once:
100x1=100 damage
But the five cell spread does 100 damage on each cell
The Conyard is 4x4 (16 cells), so
100x16=1600 QUICK_EDIT
crevio, you have already displayed your lack of intelligence and reason prominently enough in the past few days.
I suggest you stop before even the n00bs of this forum realize you're a special breed of brain-dead.
To argue about the source of contributions on a MediaWiki system with screenshots of the credit line, when the system has a very obvious and not exactly complicated History tab showing exactly what each user contributed, is either ignorant, or downright deceitful. If you actually used the one braincell you had, you would quickly find that D's supposed "contribution" was the automated guide inclusion itself, complete with the giant, red notice box previously mentioned.
In other words: It's very obvious to everyone with a brain that, if anything, D was the one most prominently claiming that information was not to be taken as accurate.
Don't try to blame your lack of common sense and basic interface understanding on D.
@patric20878: I think we're getting off on the wrong foot. You did indeed ask about the usefulness of Fighter, and given that we're the #1 hit on Google for "ModEnc", I will maintain that the name was enough to know the "where". However, that is besides the point. My primary intention was to ensure DZ's mistakes weren't attributed to us, and updated information was passed along, rather than kept to oneself, something that can, unfortunately, not be ruled out these days. I have no desire to have a pointless fight with you.
Looking at your questions,
Quote:
Q: Trying to figure out a few things for fire weapons. I just recently started coming back to Red Alert 2 modding, after like 4 years of quitting. Was 14 years old back then, hah. Trying to make a continuous stream of fire for my flamethrower weapon, but the ROF doesn't control the ROF, probably because it uses FireStreamSys. I also tried increasing the fire's lifetime to some big number like 999999 so it would be continuous, but then, it keeps on firing even after the target's dead. How do you make a continuous stream of fire?
This one will be all but impossible. Quoting ModEnc:
ModEnc wrote:
AttachedParticleSystem - A unit fires a weapon with an AttachedParticleSystem. The weapon should have IsRailgun, UseSparkParticles or UseFireParticles set (depending on the type of ParticleSystem attached), and will not be able to fire any more weapons with that flag until the ParticleSystem expired. (e.g. a unit which fires an IsRailgun=yes weapon has to wait until the railgun system it spawned has vanished before it will be able to fire any other weapon with IsRailgun=yes.)
iow, the traditional way, it cannot be continuous, because the engine is coded to not fire that weapon again until the previous stream of fire is all gone.
However, it clearly states this is determined by the flag on the weapon; what you can try is the following:
Give it a Primary with your normal fire particles.
Give it a Secondary with a railgun using the SHP Railgun Hack.
Give the railgun's particles the same characteristics as the fire particles, if not using the same particles (if the game allows you to).
I haven't tested that, so you'll have to test it yourself to see if it works, but imo, given that the fire weapon only blocks UseFireParticles weapons, and the Secondary is an IsRailgun weapon, there is a certain chance the game might allow the unit to fire the Secondary while the Primary is disabled.
However, the game's weapon selection logic is weird and Westwood-y, so only an actual test will tell.
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Q: Was wondering if there's any Halo sounds up for download.
Q:Any way to make projectiles fire in a straight line to the target? I know how to make weapons fire in a straight line from the ground to the ground where the target is standing, and that's how torpedos work, and obviously know how to arc projectiles down, but is there any way to fire in a straight line down at the target? My scorpion tank has no projectile line at all between it and the explosion at the target.
This one is a tough one, and sought after by many. ModEnc mentions ROT=1 is used to force a straight path on projectiles in several cases, but those are buggy; you can try ROT=0, but this is buggy as well.
A different way you can test out is setting a CourseLockDuration and calculating the speed and range of the projectile so that it explodes before the CLD is over and it would return to homing mode - I've never tested myself that, though. Report back how it works. (On tanks, FireAngle may play into it.)
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Q: I know in one of the campaigns that you get paradropped tanks. Soviet mission, from RA2, I think. Tried doing that, but it doesn't work. Had to change my parabombs to an infantry type also because of it.
The paradrops in those missions were created by map triggers; iow, they were never created through rules flags, and thus cannot be recreated.
Quoth ModEnc:
Modenc wrote:
Vehicles can not be dropped by superweapons, and while they can be dropped from carryalls they z-shift behind the terrain upon reaching ground, which means that they will shift "underneath" their selection bracket. This can be reversed on an affected vehicle by picking it up with a Carryall and setting it down again. Vehicle Paradrops in missions were created by map triggers, which are alltogether much more powerful in this sense.
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Q: Was wondering if aircraft can carry tanks, since when I try to put a tank in there, it just goes next to it and doesn't enter. And the size limit is 3, so I don't know why.
ModEnc's page on Passengers specifically states "InfantryTypes", rather than "TechnoTypes" or "objects"; given that D wrote that revision, and I know for a fact there is Passenger-related code in Ares, suggesting D has looked at the game's Passengers code, I am inclined to believe the answer is "no". Given that your own tests mirror that result, unless someone perks up saying it does work, I think that's a dead end.
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Q: On the topic of AOE weapons: Why do they do more damage on buildings? For example, a weapon that does 100 damage with 0 cellspread will do significantly less damage on a large building (Conyard) than a 100 damage weapon with 5 cellspread. Reallllyyy annoyyiinnggggg.
Umm...because it's CellSpread? CellSpread does not divide the total amount of damage over the entire area of effect. It applies the same damage, adjusted by PercentAtMax on each cell within the area. So a 4x3 cell building receives damage 12 times.
Is there any way to negate that, without reducing cellspread or the warhead verses? Because reducing cellspread takes away the point of having a large cellspread weapon, and reducing verses still makes attacking buildings very inconsistent, as a flak cannon will practically take no damage compared to a war factory if attacked by a large AOE weapon.
Due to the way it works, not really; you can try reducing PercentAtMax, so the surrounding cells take less damage, but the way CellSpread works is the way CellSpread works.
You can try, if you have a weapon slot left, to craft similar, but subtly different weapons against different targets - e.g. the Primary using CellSpread, with low Verses against buildings, and a Secondary with higher Verses against buildings and no CellSpread.
Depending on what you try and whether you use an exe patch, immunities might be able to replace Verses editing.
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Q: Why, when a plane strafing/overruns to shoot a target, it always shoots 5 times before turning around to shoot 5 times again? Why 5? Any way to change that?
Under what conditions? I don't remember any hard-coded limits, though my memory is admittedly infamously bad.
Are you sure it's not just a question of Speed, ROF & Range combined?
iow, do the number of shots stay the same, no matter how early the weapon starts to fire, no matter how quickly the shots are fired, and no matter how long the aircraft stays in front of the target?
And/or if ROF and Range are being ignored, is FlyBy set? Does the same experiment produce different results (a different number of shots) with FlyBy off?
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Q: Forum Related:
-Is there an introduction section in this forum?
-Why isn't the post count displayed? Kind of makes it hard to know who's a senior member or not.
-Is there any bbcode for spoiler boxes, or strikethroughs in this forum?
-Can I delete my own posts?
- I don't see such a section, nor do I see such posts in the off topic area. I don't usually visit this place, though, so maybe it's hidden. (What sense that would make is a different question.)
- Again, I don't visit here often, but I seem to recall it was exactly because of that - to prevent newbs from being picked on or not taken for full because their post count is small. Alternatively, it might just be a measure to discourage spamming, since you can't boast with your post count if none is shown.
- And the last two, same disclaimer as before, but I don't see either option, so I'd say not.
I hope I could at least help you a little bit. Feel free to drop by at RenProj if you have more questions, and contribute to ModEnc if you can. _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
@Orac:
Tested what you said, 100% verses, 5 cellspread, 25 damage. Confirmed.
Edit: Actually, refer to below post for more interesting info.
@Renegade: Right, enough with the arguing. Side note though: good way to not get off on the wrong foot is to not come off as impolite. Already this topic got degraded, and we all contributed to that, including me. Thanks for helping answering my questions though; I appreciate that.
Firestream: So the particle stream Must be expired to fire another one? Is that why it "reloads" between streams of fire, not because of some hidden ROF? Because I was asking if there was some hidden ROF, but if the reload's only because of animation, then I could simply edit out the animation to end shorter, is that right?
Firing in a straight line:
So there's no good way yet. Never liked guesswork when editing rules much. Might have to wait on that until there's a way.
And by the way, I might as well join the research club () some questions (though I only asked them because I couldn't figure how), since it seems like I do have a lot of hard questions, since I modded for so long. Just a thought.
Paradropped tanks: I posted an edit on that, found out accidentally how to paradrop tanks. Carryall a tank, then fire the (plane's) weapon at something, and it will paradrop it.
So there is no "regular" way to do it, besides to use a dummy weapon. Well, really, that's what paradrops do anyways. Guess that's the only way, though having a tank on the underside of a plane, and then parachuting it just looks weird. I think I'll just stick to carryall'ing the tanks. Question answered, thanks.
Vehicle passengers in planes:
Yeah, guess not. Why can tanks go in the nighthawk transport though, when I increase sizelimit? Is it because it's a jumpjet type, and not a true aircraft?
Cellspread: Now this is worthy of ModEnc updating. I just found out some things. Well first, that shiny graphical graph w/e thing is inaccurate. Coordinates 1,1 requires roughly about a 1.5 cellspread. 1 cellspread only reaches horizontally and vertically, not diagonally. That graph will need to be updated. Seems like Pythagorean theorem to me. Second, which may or may not be already known, but a interesting to me, is that yes, AOE weapons distribute damage exactly like they do to individual units. For example, a 4x4 building like a Conyard will take the exact same damage as a 4x4 installation of pillboxes will, cellspread and AOE damage fade wise, ignoring verses. So if you fire at a conyard, it takes AOE from cellspread, applies all damage, fading damage linearly. And if Conyards were made up of 16 1x1 individual parts of a conyard, their damage would reflect the same damage of the overall sum of damages applied per cell to the Conyard (whole). Nice. Question answered. And by the way, I will update ModEnc sometime.
AOE warhead negating: Oh well. Answered then.
Strafe 5 times: Yeah, I tested with lots of different ranges, ROF, etc. Having a ROF to be higher simply makes the plane make a REALLY long strafing run (ie: across the map at times) just so it can finish its 5 bursts in one strafe. Refer to my first post for reference, I just changed around the variables you said. I don't know what FlyBy was until now, so I have no say on that.
Halo Sounds: Meh, somewhat. Really, the only problem I have is reproducing a battle rifle sound in game. As mentioned above, I can either play a 3 round burst sound once for the 3 bursts, or I can play a single burst once per burst in the weapon. Once per burst takes some serious battle rifle sound editing to separate each 3 shots. A BR triple burst sound is great, until the burst makes it so it will make that sound 3 times, which I will then get 9 BR shot sounds total. I could limit it to 1 in sounds.ini, but then there's no way to have multiple BR's firing. And the sounds in that collection of Halo sounds aren't clean. Lots of ambient noise.
Thanks for covering lots of my questions. First post updated* QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:
halo
i'll see if i can get you some halo sounds, not promising anything, but i will try. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
@patric I had my own suspicions regarding VehicleType Passengers (I thought I had it done back in the day), and it seems like D shared those...
He says he knows for a fact it could be done in RA2 (which might very well be where I remember it from), and probably even YR 1.000.
When I asked what the exe said, though, his reply was "each object accepts different things, I can't document them all without a week of investigating".
So, I still can't say whether it works in 1.001, and your experiments still suggest the opposite, but it might be worth another round of trials.
As for the firestream, yes, on principle, you could. It's not necessarily done with cutting short the animation, since particles have some looping controls etc. as well, but the idea is that the weapon is disabled as long as the particle system exists - so if you make the particle system vanish earlier, the weapon is re-enabled earlier.
About CellSpread, that is certainly interesting, and I'd like to invite you to our forums or chat (sig) to discuss that with D, because those values are directly from the exe, so if they're incorrect, we're back to square one.
He said: "I'll doublecheck what he said about cellspread, but it usually depends on how the damage is dealt; projectiles do it one way, directdraw effects do it differently, particles do it still differently".
As said, the values on ModEnc are from the exe itself, so it's unlikely they're wrong per se. But it's possible they belong to a different case. Only research will tell. (He said just now "yes, the cellspread table is straight from the exe, but the way it is applied is not documented".)
I do think sharing your test cases with D directly, maybe getting some specific test scenarios from him, could shed some light on the issue, and I'd appreciate it if you dropped by some day. _________________ #renproj:renegadeprojects.com via Matrix - direct link QUICK_EDIT
Q: Why, when a plane strafing/overruns to shoot a target, it always shoots 5 times before turning around to shoot 5 times again? Why 5? Any way to change that?
sorry about if it's already answered,i dont like to read walls,but i think we have 2 cases:
1-the plane your using is a jumpjet or hover balloon(e.g SHAD or like it),curlyshuffle=yes is a tag under [General] in rules.ini (rulesmd for yuri),change it to no and it's done.
2-the plane your using is a fighter plane [black eagle or harrier or like them],try lowering the speed= of the plane.
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Q:Any way to make projectiles fire in a straight line to the target? I know how to make weapons fire in a straight line from the ground to the ground where the target is standing, and that's how torpedos work, and obviously know how to arc projectiles down, but is there any way to fire in a straight line down at the target? My scorpion tank has no projectile line at all between it and the explosion at the target.
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i think team some guy wrote a topic about straight shot cannon,it's in the tutorials section of the ra2 editing forum.
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flame thrower thing etc
maybe in art.ini,it's the rate of the animation of the fire,if you took it from a flame tower in yuri's argentina,look at the code and think and voiala. _________________
the only one around here that i'd like to call big brother is LKO QUICK_EDIT
@Nika:
Thanks. Though, again, getting sounds isn't the issue here. I'm really only concerned about how to make the battle rifle sound nice in-game. Refer to my post.
Though if you could get a CLEAN sound of ONE shot of the battle rifle's 3 round burst, that would be awesome. I personally can't edit sound correctly to not make it cut off in an unnatural way.
@Renegade:
Yeah, only tested with the cargo plane. I know for fact that the nighthawk can carry tanks if I increase sizelimit, and I believe that has to do with the fact that the Nighthawk Transport is a jumpjet unit, not really a true flying type.
Firestream: Wish I knew how to decrease time to vanish the firestream. Might need help there.
Cellspread: About cellspread AOE damage? Yeah, I think it's cool too. About cellspread being different at 0,1 compared to 1,1, knew that a while ago. Is DCoder a co-admin? And, only tested with explosive weapons. Don't know about directdraw or particles.
I discovered that 1,1 is farther from 0,1 or 1,0 when I first made the AOE explosive cannon for my Scorpion Tank from Halo in my mod years ago. 1,0 and 0,1 would take more damage than 1,1, and a cellspread of 1 would never reach diagonally, only a cellspread of at least roughly 1.4-1.5 would do.
But sure, I'll visit your forums.
@Superluigi:
Lowered the speed. No change. It's a flying unit, not a jumpjet one. Interestingly though, my stealth bomber loses the one ammo it comes with after it's done strafing (ie: right before turning back after the strafe), not right after it drops the five bombs. It's like the ammo is the strafe, not the 5 bombs. Heh.
I'll go search for that tutorial, thanks.
Didn't take it from Yuri's Argentina. That's a mod right? I'll go check that. QUICK_EDIT
DCoder is the co-admin, yes, but more importantly (in this case, at least) he's the one primarily developing Ares and reading the disassembled exe.
He can confirm what others can really only guess. ^^
In this case, he confirmed that the application of the table is different than expected/documented:
Code:
<DCoder> the game does use the graphic I posted
<DCoder> it collects all the objects in those cells
<DCoder> calculates their distance from the detonation point
<DCoder> and then later iterates over them, only dealing damage to those which are within CellSpread * 256 leptons of the det point
<DCoder> airborne AircraftTypes get extra harsh treatment, their calculated distance to the target is halved so they get damaged from further away
<DCoder> distance is calculated in XYZ space
<DCoder> floor(CellSpread + 0.99) is the radius it uses when looking into the graphic
Of course, he could say all that himself, had the forum administration here not decided to prefer the n00b army over those who can actually provide insight into the game's inner workings... >_>
Thank you very much for pointing that out, patric, we'll update ModEnc asap.
D, also, explicitly wants me to say thanks from him
If you're curious, he dropped some logging code into Ares and got the following output for a CellSpread=3 weapon (1 cell side = 256 leptons, if you're unaware):
Code:
About to deal damage to MTNK, which is 572 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
Dealt damage
About to deal damage to MTNK, which is 572 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
Dealt damage
About to deal damage to E1, which is 853 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
About to deal damage to E1, which is 834 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
About to deal damage to E1, which is 891 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
About to deal damage to MTNK, which is 809 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
About to deal damage to MTNK, which is 809 leptons away from blast point (cutoff distance is 768)
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The NightHawk is a VehicleType, yes, so it's not really all that different from the Hover Transports (iow, it's not surprising it accepts Vehicles).
On FireStreams again, this section explains some of the particle flags in more detail, and links to their full pages.
Specifically, MaxEC, StateAIAdvance, EndStateAI and DeleteOnStateLimit may be interesting to you.
@Renegade:
Awesome. Got a introduction section in your forum, or did you commit the same crime as PPM did?
BTW, why 572 leptons instead of 512? 256 x 2 is 512. 572 is a random number. Also, have no clue what Ares is. Is it a RA2 simulator?
And.
Regarding Straight line firing:
OMG! IT WORKS!! XDXD
Sorry, but that is so fking exciting for me! Now I can FINALLY reproduce what the scorpion tank's cannon looks like in Halo! Straight line firing + Grand Cannon explosion + DRAGON proj (image of IFV missile, to act as that white trailer when the cannon is fired) = Epic. Hahahahah. Now, all I'll have to do is to add on the sound for the scorpion tank cannon fire, and it will be complete!
Massive thanks to Team Some Guy and DCoder (for wanting him to share) I've been dying to know how to straight line shot since 2003. Omg.
Though there are some errors in that method to get straight line firing, it's far better than having an invisible projectile for the Scorpion's cannon.
Errors:
Projectile will hit the cliff edge when firing below. That's not a problem, that's obviously natural. The only problem is that the tank won't try to correct itself when it does.
Sometimes, when firing at a direction that isn't towards where the turret is aiming at, it kind of "pre-fires" and hits a spot near the target. Only happens the first time though, and only sometimes. Minor, but noted.
Not sure if this has anything to do with straight line firing, but that white trailed projectile I use from the IFV missiles, when I fire the scorpion's cannons, this is what happens:
Muzzle animation*, white trail travels to target*, explosion*
The white trail though, often disappears right outside the explosion, instead of going into the target. And also, it doesn't travel "down" at the target. It goes flat forward, and the explosion's center is vertically below the white trail's trajectory. Looks kind of weird.
not ROF=1 but ROT=1.
ROT=1 means the Rate of Turn (not Fire) and is used on the projectile, so it flies in a straight line and not like a missile upwards after being shot.
Projectiles with a low ROT (Rate of Turn) and low Acceleration have some unusual behavior, like firing in a straight line or a delayed lock on the target. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Never did play around with projectile flags a lot.
By the way, First post updated with new questions, regarding some (not really errors) errors with straight line firing.
And now, I really want a sound of the Scorpion tank firing it's cannon. Just can't find any on google, and the link that Renegade gave me had way too much ambient noise in the background.
Oh yeah, why is it that units/buildings must be declared in the unittypes, etc section first for it to work, but weapons, projectiles, Warheads, etc, don't? QUICK_EDIT
Lowered the speed. No change. It's a flying unit, not a jumpjet one. Interestingly though, my stealth bomber loses the one ammo it comes with after it's done strafing (ie: right before turning back after the strafe), not right after it drops the five bombs. It's like the ammo is the strafe, not the 5 bombs. Heh.
When using the strafe logic cases (ROT=1 or 0 on a Projectile), it will fire as many times as it can for one pass per point of ammo.
ROF on the weapon can limit the number of shots fired in the same firing window as can Range, MinimumRange, and the unit's Speed. (Faster unit means less window means less shots)
Trial and error through those tags can give you the needed number of shots in a single run. But be warned, since it is still adhered to the basic principles, a shorter range window than normal will result in less shots fired than you think thus eating up a point of Ammo.
However take my advice with a grain of caution. While I know a damn lot about aircraft logics, I don't know exactly everything about them. (Even strafe logic I don't know absolutely everything on) QUICK_EDIT
^No, variables don't affect the amount of times it fires. As tested, it will fire 5 times no matter what. If I make the ROF very slow, it will simply keep on strafing forward until it fires 5 times, and only then will it turn around to strafe again. If I make the ROF slow enough, it WILL strafe off the map just to fire those 5 times. Tested with many combinations of ROF, range, min range, speed, etc.
So again, know why that happens?
@Banshee: Oh. And where does it tell members that PPM Zone is the place for introductions?
And where's the rules? QUICK_EDIT
It happens because Westwood bodged it into the TS weapon code so the Orca Bomber could do a bombing run.
It's just one of many illogical systems in the TS/RA2 code.
That's the reason why straight fire projectiles just like RA1 are currently impossible to do exactly. Workarounds exist that give you the overall effect, but in the end it's still a homing projectile.
They could have simply used the old Dropping routine like Parabombs in RA1 or Kirovs in RA2 but nooo....Westwood just had to be lazy and/or a fuckwit. QUICK_EDIT
Why don't units/buildings have to be declared in the UnitTypes/InfantryTypes/etc section first for it to work, but weapons/projectiles/warheads/etc don't?
I presume you mean "Why do units/buildings have to be declared". Weapons are declared by Primary/Secondary/WeaponX instead of using a list like most other objects. That's why cluster weapons etc need to be added to a dummy unit as the second stage of the weapon isn't listed elsewhere.
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So I now know how to straight line fire. But I'm trying to fix these little errors:
The straight line fire method is a bodged workaround & is only meant to emulate straight firing projectiles & isn't originally intended to be used that way & as such errors do arise.
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Trying to figure out a few things for fire weapons.
Try increasing the amount of particles not how long they last.
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Was wondering if there's any Halo sounds up for download.
When I released my Warthog vxl it came with sounds for the weapon & engine, you can find it in vxl section here.
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Why, when a plane strafing/overruns to shoot a target, it always shoots 5 times before turning around to shoot 5 times again?
It's been explained, that's just how the game is coded & cant be changed. _________________
I presume you mean "Why do units/buildings have to be declared". Weapons are declared by Primary/Secondary/WeaponX instead of using a list like most other objects. That's why cluster weapons etc need to be added to a dummy unit as the second stage of the weapon isn't listed elsewhere.
So weapons are declared in placeholder units. How about projectiles and warheads? Are they declared in the weapon?
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The straight line fire method is a bodged workaround & is only meant to emulate straight firing projectiles & isn't originally intended to be used that way & as such errors do arise.
Yeah, I know. Was wondering if there's any workaround to fix those errors.
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Try increasing the amount of particles not how long they last.
Increasing the amount? As in, lengthen the time for it to shoot, which then makes it fire even when the enemy is dead? Don't know any other way to increase the amount of particles, and spawn rate won't affect the problem.
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When I released my Warthog vxl it came with sounds for the weapon & engine, you can find it in vxl section here.
I'll check it out, thanks.
Edit:
Oh, you're the one who made that voxel. Very nice, btw. Though again, you didn't record an individual sound of one chaingun bullet firing, which I was trying to get.
Now I wonder how to make the moving sound go so it emulates a warthog? I remember there's a way so a sound will loop a certain section of an audio file after it plays the first part (ie: plays 0:00 - 0:05 once, then loops 0:05 - 0:0, but forgot how.
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It's been explained, that's just how the game is coded & cant be changed.
So weapons are declared in placeholder units. How about projectiles and warheads? Are they declared in the weapon?
Projectiles are declared via the weapon, a projectile can't exist unless a weapon fires it. Warheads tho can be used independent of a weapon so need their own list to declare them.
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Increasing the amount?
I'm a bit rusting on particles but try making SpawnFrames 0, it's the time delay between firing each particle.
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Now I wonder how to make the moving sound go so it emulates a warthog?
Just look at other units that use looping moving sounds, should be pretty obvious after that. _________________
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