Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject:
Inf should avoid buzzers at any time, even while wearing Power Armors or being a Cyborg. Also, if you really want this ability so much, create your own mod then... QUICK_EDIT
It's how the Scrin plays, dude. Short-ranged infantry but powerful and the Buzzer is a MELEE unit and has pathetic health, why do you even send a CC ALONE to an enemy base in the first place? _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
why do you even send a CC ALONE to an enemy base in the first place?
Because it could work in TS (there was a campaign mission like this),and because CC is supposed to be an epic unit,maybe?
Well this Cyborg Commando don't work like that,part of the cause is C&C3 way to handle things,different from TS. QUICK_EDIT
Whats sad is I sent a Cyborg Commando on attack+move command to Scrins back door and he got taken out by 3 Buzzers.
How did you end up sending a cyborg commando into the path of one of the best anti infantry units in the game... this is unbelievable... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
So what do you want? Nerf the Buzzers? They already have low health AND need to be in melee range to attack... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, castrate the scrin a bit. They have a wide variety of anti infantry units as is. _________________ Why worry about snakes in the garden when there's spiders in your bed. QUICK_EDIT
Personally, I think those buzzers deserve the kill. Think about it, melee attack from a low health infantry unit vs both a powerful plasma gun and a flamethrower...
If you used any micro at all, you could've killed the buzzers easily. QUICK_EDIT
Personally, I think those buzzers deserve the kill. Think about it, melee attack from a low health infantry unit vs both a powerful plasma gun and a flamethrower...
If you used any micro at all, you could've killed the buzzers easily.
I really don't care I am just wowing at the fact they can do that, such an expensive unit can ge munched by something so weak...
I always found those Buzzers to be redundant, it's like how the ztype does a squad of guys with machine guns take out a swarm of bugs the size of golf balls? If you tried that in real life against a swarm of bees you will be hurting or possibly dead. Good job EA... QUICK_EDIT
It's been a while since I posted. While the Juggernaut isn't an Anti-aircraft Artillery, the laws of physics dictate that if you shoot a gun up, the projectile goes up, and if it hits something it will shred through it, thus destroying it.
Although, this is a bit overthinking it for a video game. So do what you will. QUICK_EDIT
It's been a while since I posted. While the Juggernaut isn't an Anti-aircraft Artillery, the laws of physics dictate that if you shoot a gun up, the projectile goes up, and if it hits something it will shred through it, thus destroying it.
On the other hand, aircrafts are flying a lot highter than shown in CnC, so it might be hard to hit anything (not to mention that a Firehawk would propaly fly with mach 1 or 2).
Quote:
such an expensive unit can ge munched by something so weak...
Some people call this a "counter", if you would have build some buggys or at least controlled the cyborgs, he would have survived. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Not a valid argument, the principles are still there.
The principles are not there. What is there is a highly dumbed down and simplified impression of real life. Some principles aren't even there at all (infantry don't eat or sleep).
Using the real life argument for a game is a stupid supporting point unless the game is blatantly violating real life principles in a way that would severely undermine the enjoyment of the gameplay. Saying "if you tried that in real life" is an over generalising point which could be applied to anything, including infantry in-game being resistant to rockets and shells, lasers that do more damage to vehicle armour than human flesh (Nod laser cannon turret) _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Better base AA. Anti-air base defenses are not part of tier based system, you only get one to cover an entire range of possible attack. While the ground get's a three tiered system, the sky gets one. So this structure's sole reason for existence, is to defend against a wide variety of aerial attacks. It should do so efficiently.
The subterranean tank. Great idea and effects, but it kills the realism with instantaneous underground traveling. The implementation here suggests you used Strato code with effects attached. Intuitive as that is, for a ground unit, it has a fatal flaw. While it looks beautiful, and show's real promise if the process can't be tied to a locomotor all of those effects cant make up for the forumula it breaks. Look at the function, before the form and its not really a subterranean tank anymore, its a teleporting tank pretending to be subterranean.
The airplanes using strato travel was bad enough, but semi believable, if only in a sci fi way. Most importantly though, its use was limited by the number of available helipads. Prevented the potential for an overrun tactic. Fire-hawks translated to a substantial structure/power requirement in order to spam many of them. With this underground tank, there are no structure prerequisites beyond its initial construction, allowing for a unit on the battle that can be built in high numbers, and go anywhere instantaneously.
The "Time" in RTS loses some of its meaning with this. _________________ Why worry about snakes in the garden when there's spiders in your bed. Last edited by Sedistix on Sun May 16, 2010 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
The "Time" in RTS was never meant to imply realistic timing. It goes together with the "R", as in "Real-Time" which means the gameplay takes place in real time, as opposed to a turn-based game.
Realism and gameplay are two things that are always separated by a very distinct line. Aspects of realism are only adapted into gameplay in small doses for the sake of immersion and believability. However in general principles of game development, those things are not above gameplay in terms of priority. If there should ever come a decision between choosing gameplay or choosing realism, developers wouldn't pick the latter. _________________
The white lady~! Last edited by Valdez on Sun May 16, 2010 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
The pun was the unit isn't really constrained by time anymore, at least in part. _________________ Why worry about snakes in the garden when there's spiders in your bed. QUICK_EDIT
Well that depends on how you're looking at it. Are you concerned that the insta travel of the tunneling mechanism is a gameplay issue, or a realism issue? Because if it were the latter, the very idea of a unit being able to tunnel like that itself is already unrealistic, probably one of the most unrealistic things ever in TS. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
about the travel anywhere thing, I can't recall precisely but wasn't there a radius limit for the burrowing distance?
Besides, assming the issue was indeed a potential gameplay liability I guess Carnius could go use Shadow Team locomotors instead, only this time, flying downwards instead of upwards :p _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Not a valid argument, the principles are still there.
The principles are not there. What is there is a highly dumbed down and simplified impression of real life. Some principles aren't even there at all (infantry don't eat or sleep).
Using the real life argument for a game is a stupid supporting point unless the game is blatantly violating real life principles in a way that would severely undermine the enjoyment of the gameplay. Saying "if you tried that in real life" is an over generalising point which could be applied to anything, including infantry in-game being resistant to rockets and shells, lasers that do more damage to vehicle armour than human flesh (Nod laser cannon turret)
Boy you love to continue arguments don't you? All that you listed is mostly realistic, but seriously, can you take out a swarm of bugs with a machine gun yes or no?
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Some people call this a "counter", if you would have build some buggys or at least controlled the cyborgs, he would have survived.
Actualy I had control over him when I saw the 3 buzzers come after him, he got eaten because he fired too slow and wasnt able to kill them in time and the last 2 ate him. Oh well... QUICK_EDIT
Coming from the guy who was hellbent on replacing the SAM Site rather than fixing it for the entirety of the first page of this thread, I'll take that as a complement...
Valherran wrote:
All that you listed is mostly realistic but seriously, can you take out a swarm of bugs with a machine gun yes or no?
In the game, units play by the rules of the game, not the rules of real life. If the rules don't correspond to real life, it's not the game's problem.
Also which one that I mentioned was realistic? The part about infantry being able to shrug off tank shells and rockets, or the part about a laser doing more damage to metal than human flesh? _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
If the buzzers can one-hit-kill the Cyborg Commando,then there's indeed a problem for me.
Either the CC should not have the infantry logic that allow them to be killed instantly by snipers and things like that (I think buzzers use sniper logic),or if it comes from its armor,modifying the armor (the fact that every unit has her own armor is often a pain,but here it would be useful).
It's an epic unit,not a commando in c&c3 meaning.Nothing should kill it in one shot (except of course SuperWeapons maybe).
Even if it's 2 shots,the honor will be safe
The one to be modified is the CC,not the buzzers. QUICK_EDIT
If you want a CC to be 'zomg I KEEEL EVERYTHING MWAHAHA AND I CAN'T DIE' pair it up with a Nod Commando instead of going solo. Epic units are not made to work alone. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
The cyborg commando was never intended to be an epic. Carnius mentioned it's more like a secodn hero unit than an epic. It's too weak in the health department to be an epic. Even if a buzzer won't do it in, flame weapons or snipers would anyway, _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
The cyborg commando was never intended to be an epic. Carnius mentioned it's more like a secodn hero unit than an epic. It's too weak in the health department to be an epic. Even if a buzzer won't do it in, flame weapons or snipers would anyway,
That's absolutely right, because when you give the CC a armour upgrade against everything, it would be unstopable and too Overpowerd.
The Buzzers are a really good scrin unit, because its something you can't stop easily with infantary. It wouldn't bee the same game play feeling if you change the damage they do against a CC or any other kind of infantary.
If you whant more armor against buzzers, than put our CC into the subt-APC, and unpack him after the buzzzers are killed. Thera are so many ways to get laid of the buzzers instead of changing the code.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Tacitus _________________ The Tacitus will turn out the truth of the prophecy QUICK_EDIT
Coming from the guy who was hellbent on replacing the SAM Site rather than fixing it for the entirety of the first page of this thread, I'll take that as a complement...
Valherran wrote:
All that you listed is mostly realistic but seriously, can you take out a swarm of bugs with a machine gun yes or no?
In the game, units play by the rules of the game, not the rules of real life. If the rules don't correspond to real life, it's not the game's problem.
Also which one that I mentioned was realistic? The part about infantry being able to shrug off tank shells and rockets, or the part about a laser doing more damage to metal than human flesh?
That part doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that I stated that it is so bizzare that a squad of intantry with machine guns can kill a swarm of bugs the size of golf balls. If you try doing that in real life, the golf balls would win. just seeing that in a game is just wrong. QUICK_EDIT
Whatever the case it is, the issue of machine guns vs buzzers does not warrant an in depth discussion on realism and plausibility. It is the way it is because of gameplay, end of story. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Whatever the case it is, the issue of machine guns vs buzzers does not warrant an in depth discussion on realism and plausibility. It is the way it is because of gameplay, end of story.
Maybe if he tried to use buzzers to kill infantry and see how hard it is, he'll stop complaining. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
I just realized whenever I've been speaking of buzzers,I was thinking of buzzer hives (scrin anti-infantry defense,in case I got the name wrong).
Sorry for the trouble and misunderstandings it could have brought.
Now something else:
Carnius the 30 dec 2009 wrote:
I plan single player campaign, but right now it looks like too far future.
Since there are too many units or something,and this part of the mod is stuck,then maybe it's time to think about the single player campaign
Since I'm not a multiplayer player,if there are no new units that's the point that would make me interested into going for next version. QUICK_EDIT
I just realized whenever I've been speaking of buzzers,I was thinking of buzzer hives (scrin anti-infantry defense,in case I got the name wrong).
Sorry for the trouble and misunderstandings it could have brought.
It's nice you cleared this up. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Since there are too many units or something,and this part of the mod is stuck,then maybe it's time to think about the single player campaign
personally if you asked me I'd be interested in fx. Stuff like explosions, etc. A lot of the default ones made by EA are pretty sad. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Since there are too many units or something,and this part of the mod is stuck,then maybe it's time to think about the single player campaign
personally if you asked me I'd be interested in fx. Stuff like explosions, etc. A lot of the default ones made by EA are pretty sad.
That guy on moddb that's doing that high def MOD for C&C3 was pretty sweet looking. Could see about doing something similar?
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-wrath QUICK_EDIT
Cy Comm. is fine. his cost is only 2000 compare with mammyII that have 5000 cost. I use him one man show to kill entire Hard AI with no other support if use correctly. If Nod have another EPIC. It will no balance. Imagine that Cy Comm. and that EPIC attack together. It's will unstoppable. _________________ Tiberian Sun : True Power - Reality Power Of 5 Factions... QUICK_EDIT
Why must you counter one heavy unit with another? That's like whining that Nod had no Mammoth Tank in TD to attack GDI's with. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Instead find another EPIC buff him or make him have some upgrade.
MammyII Has AA Rail And SW Grenade.
Conq can upgrade with husk.
Make him can get some upgrade or some more ability.
And about CC vs buzzer.
Buzzer die with one plasma shot also even shot range he has flamethrower to rip those buzzers. _________________ Tiberian Sun : True Power - Reality Power Of 5 Factions... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject:
CC with infantry support > Mammoth Mk2 with support OR Conquerer with support
This is what I have seen a lot of times. You just need to have enough targets, so the big units (MK2, Mammoth Tanks, Conquerer, Tripods) waste their shots on small targets, while you focus fire and deal a hell lot of damage on their Epic units first. Then you can let your units fire at own direction. QUICK_EDIT
i think that engineers medics saboteurs, etc should get pistols, if you look closely at an engineer when he dies he pulls out a pistol. i also think nod should get something like the conquerer or mammoth mark II since all other factions have them. also make vehicles a little bigger or infantry smaller cause they dont look relative at all. as far as blood effects go they are pretty good! but when infantry get squashed have a better effect like a big spot of blood. QUICK_EDIT
I think that NOD should get their Fist of Nod back though as a sort of mass of light unit Guerrilla tactics their supposed to use. allows them with a phantom to keep the flow of units going and crazy idea it could be like cranes can't construct avatars but can construct other things or it is more like a reinforcement bay i don't know besides Carnius gets the final say and lets try to help him make his mod the best C&C3 mod ever!
and I think Carnius already said he didn't want a NOD epic unit and as cool as avatars are I'm not a fan of even them just cause they don't really fit in with anything until C&C3 like you wouldn't see nod using something that big in TS QUICK_EDIT
Nod used Fist of Nod in TS, and could be used in 1.5 too.
It suits perfectly in Nod philosophy because it's all about hit, hide and run tactics, in few words: mobility. An epic support unit. When deployed can build vehicles directly in the battefield (and has a weapon for close support) in combo with phantom can be deadly.
When undeployed acts a support unit, with subliminal messages to increase the efficiency of friendly units. This was what I've called EFV (electronic fighting vehicle). QUICK_EDIT
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