Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:10 am Post subject:
A play with legends and myths
Ares(known as Mars by the romans) and his twin sons Phobos and Deimos
Mars(known as Ares by the greeks) and his twin sons Romulus and Remus
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In Roman mythology Romulus and Remus were the twin sons of the god Mars and the founders of the city of Rome.
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Early Years. When Amulius found out about the twins, he ordered that they be thrown into the Tiber River to drown. The boys floated downstream, coming ashore near a sacred fig tree. A she-wolf and a woodpecker—creatures sacred to Mars—fed the twins and kept them alive until a shepherd found them. Faustulus, the shepherd, and his wife raised the boys. They grew up to be brave and bold.
1 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
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8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.
9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”
10 The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”
Adam Isgreen quote:
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I've not really answered because the story went through multiple iterations and versions as we changed the playable factions and the key game systems. I'm trying to get it straight in my head again before further complicating things by saying something that wasn't the way we planned it.
We had also developed two completely different origins for the Tacitus, and since both stories leveraged that origin, I'm trying to remember what each included. One was centered around the Tacitus being a soul-prison for the leader of the martian force that fought against the Scrin (they knew how to beat the Scrin, but discovered it too late) while the Earth was still primordial, and the other was centered around the Scrin rebels stealing the "bible" of the Scrin -- which may or may not have been written by them in the first place -- and the Scrin Primal's crusade to recover it.
Both were interesting and had some cool reveals.
So no promises on a ton of detail. Much of it is pretty jumbled in my head at this point.
Does anyone see an interesting connection? QUICK_EDIT
I see it, but I've known for a while that the Tiberium universe was connected to the bible. _________________ Okay, my signature was starting to annoy even me. QUICK_EDIT
Its one of those things that are very in your face actually. The first thing that Kane says in the manual for the original game has a reference to the bible. GEN 4:16 _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Also, the WDT was destroyed by a Jewish conspiracy from within the US government.
Really, the lore to C&C doesn't seem to have the complex ties between unrelated pieces pieces of history. It has a few surface elements which allow you to draw overly complex plot lines, but at the end of the day its all coincidences and vague similarities.
Nelson and David Rockefeller were brothers, as were the Parker brothers or the Coen brothers - my point is that you're drawing a direct line from one pair of brothers (OK, they're twins, but still) to another and calling it a connection. Connections take much more, imo. If Kane had ever talked about building a city in Italy, or based the original Temple in an olive grove on one of the hills of Rome, then I'd say that you have a point.
As it happens, the original Temple was at Sarajevo, the location where Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by the Black Hand. The Black Hand is a connection rather than a random line drawn between reality and fiction.
Well the point was to see the metaphorical paralells of these mythologies, rather than literal meanings of Kane having built rome etc. To see where they coincide and refer to.
Was the planet Mars going to have a big role within the lore of C&C?
I'm not saying that Kane is an alien, in fact I'd say the opposite. Adam Isgreen said he was not an alien.
Funny enough, Mars has two moons called Phobos and Deimos. Last edited by Pepzi on Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
John Stalvern waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
John was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy."
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were demons.
"This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the demons!"
So John gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
"HE GOING TO KILL US" said the demons
"I will shoot at him" said the cyberdemon and he fired the rocket missiles. John plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
"No! I must kill the demons" he shouted
The radio said "No, John. You are the demons"
And then John was a zombie. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
I don't really care if it's canon, seeing as I'm only interested in Westwoods vision of the series and the things that could point us to that direction. Otherwise I wouldn't have created this thread to begin with. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject:
You're really clutching at straws, you know.
Rome has a river called the Tiber and the founders of Rome are brothers, but that doesn't relate to the stories of the Bible at all. Just for comparison, Amphion and Zethus were involved in the creation of Thebes. You can go through mythology and and loads of brothers, it was a common story and this is the case with many ancient stories (a good example being a great flood).
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Funny enough, Mars has two moons called Phobos and Deimos.
Great, it's almost like the astronomer who found them named them. Pluto is equivalent to Hades, God of the underworld in Greek mythology and its largest moon Charon is the ferryman of the dead in Greek mythology. Cor blimey, coincidence eh? _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
It was due to the martian thing that made me consider a connection. WW usually wanted plotlines to have coherency between themselves, even if this always isn't apparent for the untrained eye. All in all, the devs had a lot to say about things we didn't necessarily have any deeper thoughts about. There is a sensible logical pattern to be found and understood that cannot be found in EA:s own C&C: s which are inconsistent and shallow. QUICK_EDIT
All in all, the devs had a lot to say about things we didn't necessarily have any deeper thoughts about.
They didnt have a lot to say, lol. They took these things to make some entertaining story out of them. They didn't sit down, notice these coincidences (they're not coincidences either, people use names and meanings that other people invented previously, it's the way it works) and try to decypher the meaning of life then reveal it to the world in a 3 part video game series.
People have always thought deeply about these things, finally these guys didnt. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:14 pm Post subject:
Pepzi wrote:
It was due to the martian thing that made me consider a connection. WW usually wanted plotlines to have coherency between themselves, even if this always isn't apparent for the untrained eye. All in all, the devs had a lot to say about things we didn't necessarily have any deeper thoughts about. There is a sensible logical pattern to be found and understood that cannot be found in EA:s own C&C: s which are inconsistent and shallow.
The EA-made C&C games are consistent within themselves. I don't quite see how they're shallow, they got a scientific (albeit pseudo-scientific and wrong if you understand it) explanation of tiberium along with a novel that tied in with C&C3.
Again, I think you're overanalysing this. _________________
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This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Why shouldn’t we just take EA, and their well-paid employee, Louis Castle at whatever they say on C&C? For one, Louis Castle co-founded Westwood, but certainly did not co-found C&C. Look, for example, to the credits on C&C Red Alert. Castle, mentioned in some versions of the credits (though not on the online version maintained by MobyGames), is never credited with “Original Concept” (that’s Brett Sperry and Joe Bostic) or any sort of high ranking role. Such is true for most of the early C&C games when the framework for the series was being laid out. He doesn't assume a significant role until much later on. Indeed, Castle, prior to signing up with EA, even admitted this himself, when he said in an interview with Gamespot circa 2001, “Again, Brett was doing C&C while I did SNES games and Monopoly. C&C has been and always will be his baby.” Sperry, in that same interview, acknowledges the connection between the Red Alert and Tiberian games, saying, “Right now Red Alert and C&C are connected in my mind. There is an overall story, and you know, we have to ask ourselves, 'What is Kane doing?'” He expresses some uncertainty about how this will continue in the future, but, at the very least, he says that RA1 is inextricably tied to Tiberian Dawn.
"We wanted to make it a contemporary war for a contemporary world, with contemporary politics. At the time, Brett [Sperry] had said that it seemed to him that the next wars won't be fought nation-to-nation, but fought between Western society and a kind of anarchistic terror organization that doesn't have a centralized government. It turned out to be very prophetic". In an interview, Kane's actor Joseph D. Kucan mentioned that the Brotherhood of Nod faction was an invention of Eydie Laramore in particular, with the two of them having extensively discussed biblical metaphor and imaged backstory.
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