Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:16 am Post subject:
Added countries causes internal error on ARES and NPAE
Is the myth of adding countries break campaigns remains or problem was already solved?
Ive added seven countries in yuri, im using NPATCH AE first then ARES. It worked on skirmish but when i played Allied Mission 2, it causes IE. I edited my rulesmd and removed all added countries, it worked fine. IE came EVA is talking someting about the "this is a grinder, its a horrifying machine......".
I am seriously of thinking of making a feature request for a possibility to allow for Multiple Rulesmd file to be read by ares. "Of course I would need to do a lot of things before I did so, like get more support then the 4 modders I have now who also want it, and also need to make a good case for it etc..."
Like have a rules set for campaign, online, and skirmish.
This would be crucial for making campaigns work.
Give modders more control over their mod.
With an online and skirmish versions you could make a lag reduced version for online.
You could make ai easier or harder on skirmish.
You could make certain things for online or skirmish only. This would be used for balance.
Modifying over 200 maps is basically the only workaround at the moment for this, which is ridiculous. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
Funny, that sounds exactly like HOW THE GAME ALREADY WORKS! rulesmd.ini + map alterations for specific missions in campaigns, mpmodes for skirmish/online play along with the type of AI you will face (easy, brutal etc.). I'm guessing you had something more specific in mind when you posted, but as it reads, most everything can be done already. QUICK_EDIT
Funny, that sounds exactly like HOW THE GAME ALREADY WORKS!
I was not talking about data overwriting, but separate data reading. The new rules files would not overwrite the previous rules, they would redefine rules based on the scenario.
Blade wrote:
rulesmd.ini + map alterations for specific missions in campaigns, mpmodes for skirmish/online play along with the type of AI you will face (easy, brutal etc.).
I know this already, as it is though, it requires a lot of workarounds to make work correctly, and a lot of ares tags are not even recognized in other ini files other then the main rules file....
Blade wrote:
I'm guessing you had something more specific in mind when you posted, but as it reads, most everything can be done already.
I said it could be done with a lot of workarounds, for instance editing over 200 maps.....
What I had in mind.
Map modifications overwrite the rules section, this will never change, this is true. But what I'd suggest is allowing the game to read different sets of rulesmd for different based scenario's.
For instance having a ini File Called RulesMD1.ini for campaign, and RulesMD2.ini for skirmish, and RulesMD3.ini for online play. Instead of acting like a map modifier, the game would only read the rules you told it to, given the scenario.
And Yes, I stated that you could do a workaround. Here's how.
This would require you to use a made for campaign Rulesmd. Then Modify all map for skirmish with your new sides ares related stuff "a lot of which might not be read in a map or ini mode file making your whole workaround point invalid". Then finally there is no way to implement with a workaround separate rules for online play vs skirmish play. Yes u could make a quasi scheme for using modes to try an emulate the effect, but it wouldn't be the same as what I or others would want.
Overall this work around requires a lot of extra work,"if it even works" rather then just having the game read 3 different rulesmd files as a base for your mod. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
File a bug report with ares on whatever tags you have found not to work in mpmodes and maps as overrides. If you want to override everything (that can be overridden) just use a copy of rulesmd.ini as your mpmode.ini and modify as you like. I'm not accepting that there is a real distinction between overriding and respecifying in this context, they are effectively synonyms here. What are these major workarounds you are needing to do, what are you trying to change? If it was AI behaviour then yes, being able to specify different ai files between modes would be desireable, but thats nothing to do with rulesmd.ini.
True there is no distinction between skirmish and online though, but then why should there be? If you are online any changes to the AI won't affect you anyhow since you are playing against actual people. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject:
Just leaving this here.
http://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/Making_The_YR_Singleplayer_Campaign_Work_With_Your_Mod _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
While the link you posted is helpful to others, I already followed that guide and it has nothing to do with the issue siopee and I have.
As for Blade.
There's various reasons it would be helpful but not necessary for this system to exist.
For instance, for campaign you must add more buildings to the buildingtypes array, which makes an already overloaded array, even more overloaded. Which has a max of 512 right now. If we use overide, we simply have too much here no matter how we code it.
Some things like new ares tags, not sure which ones exactly, but a certain amount such as sw tags are already shown not to work on map mods and modes.
As for separate aimd.ini that was also a thought, but basically you can make ai different through different sw's, different settings etc for skirmish vs online, yes it can be achieved by a workaround.
Mod don't always have a lot of online player fights, and sometimes you do comp stomps, in which case ai difficulty may need to be higher or easier depending on your mod.
As for major workarounds, I'd have to edit my rules down to original rules almost to make campaign work, then basically add 3 new sides and 13 countries, and over 30 sw's, etc and other things directly to maps or all modes, assuming all new ares tags took, and that the buildingtypes array didn't overlord, etc.
Like i said, it could currently be done, probably via workarounds, but it could be simplified. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
True you must add a few more buildings to the array, but you can reuse them in any mode beyond just the campaigns. Perhaps asking for an extension to the array would be a better feature request if you can show it is needed.
I still don't see what you need to add the new sides, countries and sw's to the maps and modes for if their settings can be overridden, why can't they be in the main rulesmd.ini in an inactive form? The only thing I can think of is you want different sides to be available in different modes, a reasonable request on the face of it, but I believe DCoder already shot down a proposal that would allow you to list alternate houses/sides in depending on MP modes due to the load time. I doubt he'd be persuaded for a whole new rulesmd.ini structure being built depending on the mode for the same reason. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject:
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Some things like new ares tags, not sure which ones exactly, but a certain amount such as sw tags are already shown not to work on map mods and modes.
Great, 1453. (http://bugs.renegadeprojects.com/view.php?id=1453) Look, this bug is on feedback and we can't say anything... because we can't reproduce it. The cases we know of are working. he only tag which can't be reset is [SW]Type= but that's mentioned in the manual.
If you know how can you access to 0.2, then you should at least know what you're saying.
About new countries, you can add them after Special and then organize using CountryListIndex, so you can't break that one neither. [Tested.] If you follow that tut and expanding the idea behind it to use with countries, the only bug remains is that 512 limit on BuildingTypes.
And you should check that array more often, I for example replaced GADUMY to get my AI working. Since GADUMY wasn't in use, it works as should.
What I had in mind.
EDIT:
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Map modifications overwrite the rules section, this will never change, this is true. But what I'd suggest is allowing the game to read different sets of rulesmd for different based scenario's.
For instance having a ini File Called RulesMD1.ini for campaign, and RulesMD2.ini for skirmish, and RulesMD3.ini for online play. Instead of acting like a map modifier, the game would only read the rules you told it to, given the scenario.
And Yes, I stated that you could do a workaround. Here's how.
This would require you to use a made for campaign Rulesmd. Then Modify all map for skirmish with your new sides ares related stuff "a lot of which might not be read in a map or ini mode file making your whole workaround point invalid". Then finally there is no way to implement with a workaround separate rules for online play vs skirmish play. Yes u could make a quasi scheme for using modes to try an emulate the effect, but it wouldn't be the same as what I or others would want.
Overall this work around requires a lot of extra work,"if it even works" rather then just having the game read 3 different rulesmd files as a base for your mod.
Don't misunderstand me but you're wrong as hell. I read YR++ very often recently. Your idea to rewrite the whole parser is just crazy. Where would you define that rulesmd? I definitely agree with Blade, not just because I don't see that huge problem (except the mentioned 512 limit), but also because rewriting AbstractTypeClass and RulesClass for that sake is too much work for too less gain. QUICK_EDIT
Great, 1453. (http://bugs.renegadeprojects.com/view.php?id=1453) Look, this bug is on feedback and we can't say anything... because we can't reproduce it. The cases we know of are working. he only tag which can't be reset is [SW]Type= but that's mentioned in the manual.
If you know how can you access to 0.2, then you should at least know what you're saying.
Ok your right I was sloppy in the way I wrote, and did not confirm all my facts.
Graion Dilach wrote:
About new countries, you can add them after Special and then organize using CountryListIndex, so you can't break that one neither. [Tested.] If you follow that tut and expanding the idea behind it to use with countries, the only bug remains is that 512 limit on BuildingTypes.
Actually that's the way I got them setup now, but what I'm gonna have to do is only have original countries etc for rulesmd, and then add all my new countries for skirmish modes like battle etc. To get the campaigns working.
And your right the 512 limit is the main thing I was trying to get around myself, as it is my mod has already breached 512 "which is easy to do when adding in over 3 new sides and clone buildings for all sides," and finding anyway to reduce the buildingtypes list would be helpful. Adding in campaign buildings takes away 30 potential spots.
Graion Dilach wrote:
And you should check that array more often, I for example replaced GADUMY to get my AI working. Since GADUMY wasn't in use, it works as should.
I check it very often to try and minimize its size.... as my list already breaks the 512 limit unless i delete some dummy buildings as you mentioned.
Graion Dilach wrote:
I read YR++ very often recently. Your idea to rewrite the whole parser is just crazy. Where would you define that rulesmd? I definitely agree with Blade, not just because I don't see that huge problem (except the mentioned 512 limit), but also because rewriting AbstractTypeClass and RulesClass for that sake is too much work for too less gain.
Okay I see your point, i agree that too much work for too little gain is the accepted practice. This insures ares will see newer more desired features and bug fixes.
Note as i originally stated, I was only thinking about such a feature and did not have anyone entirely versed in c++ to ask/discuss about the ease or creation of such a feature. And my only reason for posting about my idea here was primarily to hear other opinions on it, which I'm actually glad I did as it was informative.
siopee wrote:
so if you added new countries at the end of default list and NOT inserted it after first nine playable countries then you're good.
No use the original rulesmd, then in modes, etc ad your new rulesmd ini codes. Having anymore in your rules, seems to still break campaign, at least it did with my mod.
But if this is incorrect can someone please tell me the correct way to do it. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.
Yes, adding any countries will break campaigns because they add additional countries in the map and then have triggers that rely on the position in the array. The fix is to edit all the maps and increment any trigger with a country number in it that is higher than the original countries by the number of countries you made. DCoder wrote a perl script that he used to correct the RA2 missions for use in YR and it would be nice if that was at least out there for others to use to correct campaigns if they add more countries themselves as its time consuming work to do it by hand. QUICK_EDIT
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
Added countries causes internal error on ARES and NPAE
