Let's not because nobody gives a ztype anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this ztyping bullshit. _________________ KGR | AT
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Discord: theastronomer1836
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Well it's true no game would ever stand up to the fans demand. Even if Westwood made it you'd be complaining about something. Westwood was of an age, and even TS/RA2/YR/Renegade fell short in terms of quality in a lot of ways compared to other games at the time... I can't imagine they'd have progressed in the 3D direction very well without major engine optimization issues and games plagued with bugs.
EA, for all the failure that was C&C4, still made 2 really fun games: C&C3 and RA3. C&C3 had some really cool graphics and cutscenes, RA3 fun multiplayer and unit designs. Both had nice additions to the C&C formula like support powers, generals points and amphibious gameplay.
WW could never have survived in the modern world of game developing and it looks like EALA couldn't either. We've got a new team(s) working on the series now who will hopefully reboot the series (even you must admit that is the only option now) bringing the best of C&C gameplay into the 21st century.
I really don't know what you hope to achieve with these topics. Even if WW returned and "finished" the series you'd still have EAs games in the canon and WW would really only serve to corrupt the already unfathomably scatty world of C&C. Also remember what Westwood had "planned" and what Westwood would have produced are completely different things. TibSun went through hellish development and lost a lot of it's original design and so would any future WW game. QUICK_EDIT
I have no words to express how absurd your above statement is.
I don't really have many words to say about how absurd your plan is. In fact, I sometimes wonder if you're a very cleverly disguised troll. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
And then again, for emphasis:
FurryQueen wrote:
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
And then again, with more emphasis:
FurryQueen wrote:
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
Your blaming the fans for EA:s failure!? I have no words to express how absurd your above statement is.
EA did not fail. You morons only believe they failed. If Westwood had released the same material, you idiots would fawn over it like you do with Tiberian Sun, which is the shittiest game in the series. I am so tired of you fans being impossible to please, as if you wrote the goddamn 'canon' yourself! Hell, is there even canon beyond Kane and Tiberium? Command & Conquer, while stellar games, has a horribly incoherent mess of a storyline. Seems like it should be taken like Zelda in many aspects - games loosely based off of each other, rather than a directly connected finite timeline.
Hell, why not just enjoy the damned games and stop worrying so much about the story? Why is that so fucking difficult?
PROTIP: Adam Isgreen is not the C&C canon god, overlord or whatever you classify him to be. Nobody gives a shit; stop begging for what isn't there. _________________ KGR | AT
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Discord: theastronomer1836
Steam QUICK_EDIT
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
And then again, for emphasis:
FurryQueen wrote:
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
And then again, with more emphasis:
FurryQueen wrote:
Let's not because nobody gives a fuck anymore. Since you rabid C&C fanboy idiots started bashing everything produced, the entire series took a goddamn nosedive. Ditch this fucking bullshit.
Blame EA for their bugs, but not for their plans, most things have been done these days. The future is a reformed past, ideas start to diminish. Look at the scientists, all the big names are gone now, and barely any came in return. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject:
The-Light wrote:
Look at the scientists, all the big names are gone now, and barely any came in return.
Having no big names in science isn't a consequence of a lack of scientists. It's a consequence of the general populace not caring about science any more and the fact that most research nowadays is quite narrowly aimed and in large research groups so no one person gets all the credit.
I know this is off-topic but it's probably more interesting and less stupid than the main topic. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject:
Yeah the community has pretty much given up hope for C&C since C&C4
If I were to be the fanboys advocate here, the argument is mostly in terms of story, not necessarily game quality itself.
The fanboys were demanding yes, but really not anymore than any other game out there. Other games and companies do just fine despite their own respective fanboy complaints - If EA couldn't accommodate than yes, they failed.
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject:
Well I was pretty happy with the story. C&C4 was a letdown but I thought EA put a lot of effort in with C&C3 and it showed. Unfortunately, some people like to look past that and complain until the "original" WW (who, may I remind you, are currently making very average RTS games at the moment - nothing more) create the C&C they "wrote" ten years ago. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
What Clazzy wrote. In addition, should Isgreen's description of Incursion be true, the story would've ended up worse than TW's. They even intended a poor sideplot to connect RA2 to the canon by explaining Yuri as Kane's mind-controlling acolyte, who got thrown in the past via a chrono vortex, that was activated by an old Chronosphere in the hidden tech vaults of Arizona, because GDI and Nod were looking for the last remaining piece of reverse-engineered, indestructible armors called "Screaming Eagles". Oh, and I thought this was a RTS, not a Marvel comic. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
The only reason that idea was thought up in the first place however, was to fix the inconsistency called RA2 that EA Pacific created without taking the already existing plot into account. Many of those people also worked on TW, where they -yet again- ignored many things concerning the already existing (tiberium saga related) plot.
Considering EA made the same mistake they could've easily avoided twice in a row, EA obviously just doesn't care about coherency and you shouldn't be surprised these "fanboys" complain. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
And we come back to assuming that C&C is a finite, continuous storyline, which we know doesn't work and every explanation is lazy as fuck.
I'm so sick of everyone trying to force a story that doesn't exist. That's what pisses me off about those dipshit fanboys. EVA, Carno and I have explained time and time again that there is no connection between the Tib story and the RA story; none.
It doesn't matter what EA did. It's entirely irrelevant. The most important factor is always overlook by fanboys. If you don't understand the most important factor of a game, then there's no hope whatsoever. _________________ KGR | AT
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Discord: theastronomer1836
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CnC4 was the best ztyping game ever. The screenplay deserves an academy award. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:00 am Post subject:
Oh hi Fen.. all this time I thought you were Carno
The thing is, usually stories make sense. When there's problems or when the cliffhanger leads to a let-down, people are going to naturally be disappointed.
Think of Jurrassic Park for example. The original was a timeless classic that was well thought out, and is still enjoyed since 1993. The sequel, maybe not as good but stil awesome.
Then some non- Speilberg person gets poops out JP3 all on his own apart from any original story; book OR movie. Even though it has Sam Neill, the whole thing is still a wreck. Velocoraptors that talk OKAY.
so YES you can blame the producer for trying to milk a series that didn't begin as his, and no, not everyone who hates it is some "Jurrassic Park fanboy"
I still don't see how being disappointed in EA or what they've done with C&C makes someone some kind of uber fanboy. It's almost like you're on a big fanboy witch hunt or something. _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
CnC4 was the best ztyping game ever. The screenplay deserves an academy award.
This is best read at 3 AM when everyone else is trying to sleep.
Quote:
I still don't see how being disappointed in EA or what they've done with C&C makes someone some kind of uber fanboy. It's almost like you're on a big fanboy witch hunt or something.
Fans are just fine; fanboys are not. And I mean on either side. However, the ones that are more annoying are the ones who cling to the whole "Westwood" thing like it's a really keen idea without realizing that Westwood was a mediocre studio at best. These are the people like Pepzi who cling to this notion of a the "ULTIMATE WESTWOOD SEE AND SEE CANON" and will not let go of the past. A past that never happened! Do you see what I'm getting at? Not just fans; rabid, EA hating, Westwood fellating asstards! _________________ KGR | AT
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Discord: theastronomer1836
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The only reason that idea was thought up in the first place however, was to fix the inconsistency called RA2 that EA Pacific created
But then RA2 was definitely a spinoff title (arguably the same as RA1)... I mean it doesn't even follow the RA1 storyline, so really there was no reason to try and explain it's place in the canon. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Nov 2002 Location: Algae Colony On Mars
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:47 am Post subject:
Quote:
The only reason that idea was thought up in the first place however, was to fix the inconsistency called RA2 that EA Pacific created without taking the already existing plot into account. Many of those people also worked on TW, where they -yet again- ignored many things concerning the already existing (tiberium saga related) plot.
Considering EA made the same mistake they could've easily avoided twice in a row, EA obviously just doesn't care about coherency and you shouldn't be surprised these "fanboys" complain.
Westwood Pacific was managed by Westwood, so if they had any issues with the story then they could have brought it up. They didn't, so therefore WW either didn't care about the story or that was the plan all along. Either way, your argument doesn't work. _________________
Quote:
This is sexier than what this forum was supposed to tolerate. - Banshee
And we come back to assuming that C&C is a finite, continuous storyline, which we know doesn't work and every explanation is lazy as fuck.
I'm so sick of everyone trying to force a story that doesn't exist. That's what pisses me off about those dipshit fanboys. EVA, Carno and I have explained time and time again that there is no connection between the Tib story and the RA story; none.
It doesn't matter what EA did. It's entirely irrelevant. The most important factor is always overlook by fanboys. If you don't understand the most important factor of a game, then there's no hope whatsoever.
But then RA2 was definitely a spinoff title (arguably the same as RA1)... I mean it doesn't even follow the RA1 storyline, so really there was no reason to try and explain it's place in the canon.
Agreed, that'd indeed be the easiest way to explain it away.
Clazzy wrote:
Westwood Pacific was managed by Westwood, so if they had any issues with the story then they could have brought it up. They didn't, so therefore WW either didn't care about the story or that was the plan all along. Either way, your argument doesn't work.
Westwood Vegas made it obvious that they intended RA1 to be nothing more than a prequel to TD (hence why it was explained as such in its manual). I don't know how their management worked, but from what I can tell WW Vegas and WW Pacific didn't communicate for shit (and was it even WW Vegas that managed WW Pacific to begin with?). WW's management seemed to be rather crappy in general to say the least... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
No, I agree that either explaining RA2 (and RA3) away as a spin-off works a lot better than insisting they're part of the C&C canon; as in RA1->TD->TS->C&C3->RA1->RA2->RA3... I'm getting dizzy already. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Fen is right with their points. I do say that we as a community have almost no say in what happens. People should just STFU and enjoy the good games and ignore the crappy ones they don't like. TS was by far the biggest piece of shit I played. I liked the units and the story was okay but the AI and such sucked donkey macadamiens. RA2 was good. It was balanced and the AI didn't over rape you when you made one mistake. CnC4 made me hate the series qt first. I then relized it was EA's attempt at changing a series. Like Fen said. If Westwood created it all you fanboyz would go nuts over it. If you don't like then sell it to a friend or move on. CnC isn't the only RTS in the world. Go play civ and let the new owners of CnC give it a shot. QUICK_EDIT
What the ztype. Jurassic Park is brought up here? Awesome. Jurassic Park and C&C are the TITS! The velociraptors were -awesome-. They were actually gendered and smart, unlike the first two movies where everybody's like 'THEY'RE SO SMART AND CLEVER, OH GOD!' and they're just nasty bastards. They actually were intelligent, and they were pretty to look at. Those red eyes. <3
Anyway, back to C&C4.
Quote:
The only reason that idea was thought up in the first place however, was to fix the inconsistency called RA2 that EA Pacific created without taking the already existing plot into account. Many of those people also worked on TW, where they -yet again- ignored many things concerning the already existing (tiberium saga related) plot.
The links between TD and 'C&C 0' (Cash & Cash Red Alert) were paper thin anyway. If two FMVs are all that can be used to link TD and RA together, then there is no link. Really. Nevermind WWLV was the superior of WWP and probably could've told them 'hey, this isn't in line with this, could you change that?'. They closed their care factory for the C&C storyline when TS flopped.
Also, these fanboys are ztyping annoying to be quite blunt. How many times have you posted about 'WW's vision' of C&C4, Pepzi? How many times have you blabbered on TO and TI threads to go to use Westwood's ideas without even giving the mod developer's ideas a chance? Admit it, you just want Westwood's C&C and anybody else's interpretation of the storyline isn't good for you. It's fine that you think EA's story sucks, but, STOP pushing it on others to re-create something that is DEAD.
If you want Westwood's vision so bad, stop posting it on the forums, stop trying to rally the internet hate machine, and make it yourself. ztype. I hate your fetishism for Adam Isgreen's b-movie storyline. Stop pushing it on everybody. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Oh for the love of god, quit the EA bashing >_> CnC4 is just one of a few fails by EA. Its not that everything they made is crap. _________________ The future belongs to The Forgotten! QUICK_EDIT
It's stupid to argue about a story line which will never be realised as a game. If the story only makes sense after you've read further information outside the game then you've got a bad story on your hands.
If RA was to be connected to TD or TW then they would have made this clear. Since they didn't, and the only real evidence is outside of game, you've got a bad story on your hands.
It seems like I missed the party. Too bad, as a few people and I brought a similar bit in the fanboy hechhole known as ModDB, and got them to stop being such large D nozzels.
I mean Saint TS is not the best game ever. And It dose not Age well.
By the way, what is the connection Between TD and TS? I mean all of one trailer gives the connection between a Modern war style game and Mecha! _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I dont see it. I see TD with Tanks, and Helicopters turn into TS with Mecha and Cyborgs. Though I will be honouse, I have not played that much TS
On a second note-why dose the TS wolv. look like a walking coffin? how did that make it pass R&D _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
I don't disagree with that, but all in all, this arguing about a 15 year old storyline isn't going to change the past and I really doubt it'll change the future. QUICK_EDIT
In any case, I'm sure Adam has come to hate his fanboys just as much as they hate EA.
Team Black wrote:
IMO, the anti-fanboys are just as bad
^ Agreed.
IMO, C&C95 was great, then with TS WW used their time really inefficiently and after that both WW/Petro and EA have failed to do anything really succesful (except for E:BFD which I liked (but it could've been better too), and C&C3 was ok but failed entirely in some things like story and multiplayer map variety). _________________ CnCNet Client | CnCNet TS patches | More Quality-of-Life Improvements for RA Remastered
Err, I'd consider Generals and Zero Hour to be succesful.
As would I. Generals may not fit the 'C&C mould' but the games are wildly popular and there are good reasons for it. _________________ KGR | AT
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Discord: theastronomer1836
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject:
Just wondering... Would the fanbases of other long-time game series also have these kind of discussions once in a while? What the connection is between Call of Duty 2 and Modern Warfare in example? Or what happened in Final Fantasy IX is consistent with what happened in Final Fantasy VIII?
As said, drop this, as the original story is 15 years old, and it's much more fun to create your own universe and mod a C&C game into that universe QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject:
Activision already screwed over its original Call of Duty fanbase. They just managed to turn CoD into the yearly blockbuster title and managed to get the masses to buy into it.
The original fan-base? long gone. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject:
EA
COD could be a good game....expect for the fact that 70% of the people that play online are a total waste of space. These are the same people that would not have Desert Storm. Being Combat Ready in real life is not the same in the game. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
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I know where EA:s Stockholm office is located
?
