Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:
Passive AI ally
Subject description: Is there a way to make AI ally more aggressive?
I tried Battle and Team Alliance Skirmish modes in RA2: YR, and when I'm in the same team with the computer, the AI allies are extremely passive. This happens in ordinary YR, and also in mods like Mental Omega and Beowulf's Rules. The enemy AI built waves of units and attacked with them in those mods, but the friendly AI's just kept turtling and building units and structures to defend their own base. The enemy AI's also built Superweapons a lot sooner than the friendly AI's. It looks ridiculous when the Medium AI is sending waves of forces to attack the Brutal AI, and the Brutal AI just keeps defending, maybe sometimes sending a couple of infantry units and Harriers to attack. Eventually the Brutal AI gets decimated by Superweapons. Is there some way to make the friendly AI behave like the enemy AI, so that it builds a large force and attacks the enemy AI? I could be just imagining, but the AI ally seemed more active in DeeZire and Mooman's mods. Are there some settings in rulesmd.ini and aimd.ini that control the AI's behavior when it's on the same side with the player? QUICK_EDIT
My guess is that it's set that way in your ai.ini
I have not encountered this though so I am unsure of exactly what's happening. Ask Dutchgamer..he seems to know a lot about AI (as he is TI's AI Coder) _________________
Tore wrote:
Oh noes Nod32 must have found some GDI32 in the art.ini file!
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:36 am Post subject:
AFAIK, friendly AI is passive until the first enemy attack it takes, but after that, everything will work fine. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject:
I've never seen the problem you described, or at least, never noted it if it did happen. Although, I admit it has been ages since I played TS/RA2 with the default AI. QUICK_EDIT
I never play as team mates, but I had a AI that was similar, in a way...kinda. Played against 4 AI .....2 were coming to rip me up while the other 2 did nothing but build defense and sit back. I figured it was a trigger I wrote that caused it. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
Joined: 15 Jun 2011 Location: "Where do you want setup?".
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject:
You might also note a problem in lan games, if am the server (the guy who started the game), the AI will attack me 9\10 the time, this only happend in ares. _________________ Also known as superluigi949 and SuperMario949.
Banned for pretending to be someone else. QUICK_EDIT
My mod for ARES has aggressive AI's and I have never had this issue with my AI,given the right funds for AI and equally build opportunity and no path errors, AI's work the same regardless of whether allied or not with humans.
Of course I might have given you your answer a bit, have you checked the maps your playing to see if the AI's are having resource, base size, or path errors preventing them from behaving correctly?
Checking ai.ini aimd.ini is probably not gonna do any good. With the vanilla Scripts ai should function equally/properly.
And yes there are things you can do in rules to make ai act more intelligent or spam like crazy to reduce odd stuff. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject:
Now you mention it EricAnimeFreak, one of the first things I always do when editing an AI from basic is to (massively) increase the AI multipliers on cash (both starting cash and cash they get trough harvesting). This is most likely the case why sometimes the AI slows down. QUICK_EDIT
On the last AI file I worked on my brutal AI functioned great, I nearly lost my base countless times. spent about 3 hrs holding them off, but the normal and easy AI were broken. I had modified both the rules and the AI ini.
Though with current project I had to change the names of some of the infantry in the mod to get the game to function. Didn't touch the rules at all and have been over run several times. Have to wait till get all items in to make full assessment. I guess reasonable sized attack forces work best, its when you send mega waves it when the AI gets lazy _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
Thanks for the replies! It seems increasing BaseBias helped with some mods. This made the friendly AI send aggressive counterattacks against the enemy that attacked it. Not perfect, but at least now the friendly AI's do something more than just sit in their bases. This seemed to make MooMan and Devastation's (a mod from RADEN) friendly AI's better, and Beowulf's too. However, it didn't do much in C&C: Mashup v.1.6., and I don't have the rulesmd.ini for Mental Omega, so I couldn't try the BaseBias option for MO. The AI allies are so lousy in Mashup that a friendly Brutal AI can barely beat an Easy AI. Could NPatch have anything to do with this? As for the vanilla AI, I'm not sure since that one's always rather passive (even enemy AI's).
If being attacked makes the friendly AI perform better, are there any flags that can make the AI feel more "threatened" so that it would launch more counterattacks? If I understood correctly, BaseBias already makes the AI more "threatened" when its base is under attack.
Slightly off-topic, but does the OnlyTargetHouseEnemy option in aimd.ini do something else than just determine whether the AI attacks civilians or not? I wonder what even controls the way the friendly AI determines its House Enemy since the enemy is not the player.
EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Of course I might have given you your answer a bit, have you checked the maps your playing to see if the AI's are having resource, base size, or path errors preventing them from behaving correctly?
I only play on Westwood's maps that came with the game. Shouldn't they be fine for AI performance? QUICK_EDIT
YR's AI isn't so great at pathfinding. Or using bridges. Or using superweapons.
The fact is:
AI can't attack you with a chronosphere if you are on an island with a bridge or 2 attached and destroy said bridges (try it on Hammer & Sickle).
AI will often get stuck on bridges with a division in the middle (those columns that hold the bridge up on some maps).
AI is defaulted to attack human players before AI players (bigger default threat rating).
AI can't pathfind worth a "wooden nickel".
It can't repair bridges or civilian garrisons.
AI isn't coded to help you survive in team matches (mostly cause it wasn't ever coded for teamplay).
There's a thousand other things it has trouble with, but in vanilla YR, AI allies don't act any different than regular AIs except for the fact they need to be provoked into attacking the first time, but that usually isn't a problem unless there's no units Also, the smaller the taskforce, the less time the AI has to wait to fill it and send it out. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
AFAIK, friendly AI is passive until the first enemy attack it takes, but after that, everything will work fine.
This might actually be the reason. I played a 4-vs-4 Skirmish today: Brutal, Medium and Easy AI and I against 4 Medium AI's. The enemy AI's kept attacking normally, and the only forces on my side that seemed to be doing anything were the Brutal AI and I. Our combined attacks weren't enough to beat 4 AI's, though. Out of frustration towards the idle Medium and Easy AI's, I sent my forces to force-fire and destroy some of their defensive structures. It seemed both friendly AI's started to build some advanced structures and sent some forces to attack the enemy bases after that.
I tried another 4-vs-4 Skirmish on another map. This time I started the game by force-firing all the friendly AI's for a while, without actually destroying anything. Brutal AI was so powerful that it could have probably destroyed all the enemies alone. The other (non-Brutal) friendly AI's didn't have time to attack, but they seemed to build their bases and units faster than usual. QUICK_EDIT
I play a 1 vs 4 AI (all brutual) and they use super weapons and bridges just fine. i allowed everyone to have nuke and storm and was nearly wiped out aft 15 min. they use the SW just fine. They can reapair a bridge, it just tricky to get them to do so or civ structures. i had a script and they garrisoned every thing in site...., they did repair them once in a while. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
I have noted a problem with building repair as of late since my ai use bridge repairing, basically ai will repair bridges but only the ones closest to it via script in aimd. Ai like to be tricky to code in aimd but it is very doable.
Solution, add in new Buildingreapir huts, extra's, and manually add these extra huts too all maps so no hut is ever used more then once and add special aimd script triggers for each hut for ai to repair on occasion, this way ai will repair all brdiges, but it'salot of work and i haven't tested it, might be worth trying tho. _________________ Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
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I sent my forces to force-fire and destroy some of their defensive structures. It seemed both friendly AI's started to build some advanced structures and sent some forces to attack the enemy bases after that.
I'm guessing maybe you gave them more space to build, or they begun building more suitable defenses to account for the "attackers." However I don't know if you could forcibly provoke them to build attack taskforces by friendly fire. You should look into it though.
Quote:
It can't repair bridges or civilian garrisons.
Maybe true, however some maps give extra AI triggers for garrisons. Sometimes AIs even accidentally garrison in an attempt to attack civilian structures. I'm sure that 64,0 in AI works fine.
Quote:
Solution, add in new Buildingreapir huts, extra's, and manually add these extra huts too all maps so no hut is ever used more then once and add special aimd script triggers for each hut for ai to repair on occasion, this way ai will repair all brdiges, but it'salot of work and i haven't tested it, might be worth trying tho.
Huh, so just getting an Engineer and attack the repair hut doesn't work? QUICK_EDIT
A human player repairs a bridge hut because the bridge is blown.
AI repairing bridges is due to a script telling it to enter/attack the nearest bridge hut. It has no way to telling if a bridge is destroyed or not.
Eric's is a potential solution but time consuming whilst as Fenring mentioned, AI becomes a bit shitty on bridges/especially with large taskforces.
Its more amusing on mods with destructible bridges as you can simply c4 the bridge and take out the pathfinding mess which is the AI _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:10 am Post subject:
passive
64,0 works........but I found it works too well sometimes. 4 AI all occupying the civ buildings....it can be chaos when they loose their base _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
i managed to destroy 2 bases and had about 1000 infantry rush me....yes 1000. it slowed the game down for about a min or 2 than it was chaos. i had a bunch of infantry standing around in the middle of the map i had forgot about and they were toasted. i need a way to get that scrip to work not so well, lol _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
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Passive AI ally
Also, the smaller the taskforce, the less time the AI has to wait to fill it and send it out.
