Project Perfect Mod Forums
:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::


The time now is Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:17 pm
All times are UTC + 0
Buildable light posts
Moderators: SuperJoe
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [30 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic

Should every side be able to build light posts?
Yes
65%
 65%  [ 15 ]
Nope
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 23

Author Message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject:  Buildable light posts Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Title says it all. I was thinking of making light posts buildable for every side. They wouldn't have a big role in gameplay, but neither do the gates and some people still like to build them. The alpha light posts do add nice detail and atmosphere to darker maps. To stop them from being spammed, I would limit the maximum number of light posts at a given time to 4. That should be enough to at least cover every side of the base, without giving jokers the opportunity to build tons of them in one tight spot, resulting in overly bright spots. The planned cost for a light post is 150 and they take only 5 power.

The only negative thing to this I can think of is cluttering the sidebar with things you might not build, especially since they would appear even in daytime maps. Then again Reform doesn't add any other new structures to GDI and Nod, and the unit side of the sidebar already has alot more stuff than the building side.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Regulus
Commander


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Location: The Lone Star State

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As long as you can sell them.

_________________
You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Skype Account
blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

think of a gameplay wise purpose before adding anything useless

_________________

Hydraw Art on Facebook

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Made an annoying little discovery. BuildLimit cannot be used with a building that has Insignificant=yes. So to kill the enemy you would have to take out his light posts too. Or remove BuildLimit from light posts and then they become spammable. Will have to rethink about adding them.

blubb wrote:
think of a gameplay wise purpose before adding anything useless


I would put the lights in the same category as gates. Both have minimal gameplay value, but they can be used to make the base look more organised. Mostly skirmish stuff, I doubt many would build gates or light posts online.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd find it a clog up of the sidebar as it only adds some lighting, which shouldn't be neccesary in a player start location unless you're using a bad map, adding them in maps is no harm though.

_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an example pic with some light posts. I think they make the base look more... interesting and detailed, as if it was from a singleplayer mission.

EDIT: Picture in few posts below.

_________________

Last edited by SuperJoe on Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daTS
Mr. Moosey


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bad link Sad try uploading it.

Personally I think it wouldn't be bad as long as you make the light posts in GDI and Nod styles. Very Happy

_________________
"Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there." -Adam Young

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Skype Account
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something weird happened to the pic, it showed up normally before. I uploaded it on PPM now:



lightexample.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  1.01 MB
 Viewed:  8330 Time(s)

lightexample.png



_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Death Cultist
Scorpion Sniper


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would make it so that they are incredibly weak, even if someone spammed them, some well placed artillery could take them out. Or make them powered, so if the power plants are destroyed, they go out.

_________________
Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Death Cultist wrote:
I would make it so that they are incredibly weak, even if someone spammed them, some well placed artillery could take them out. Or make them powered, so if the power plants are destroyed, they go out.


Yep I made them very fragile, they have only 150hp and wood armor. I tried both Powered=yes and TogglePower=yes, but unfortunately neither work. Would be very nice visual effect if the lights went out as the power is cut from the base. Also toggling could be used on maps with day / night cycle, turn the lights off during day and back on during the night. But that doesn't work either, even if you disable the building the light still remains on. So I made it so they can't be toggled off.

Btw noticed some weird. When the light posts get cloaked by a stealth generator, the alpha light disappears. Not immediately, but if you scroll away from the base and come back, or hit Esc to go to the menu, the light is gone. That actually kinda makes sense, if the lights remained on the enemy could see them through the cloak. But unfortunately the lights never turn back on, even if the stealth generator gets destroyed or disabled.

EDIT: ModEnc says AlphaImage can be used on animations as well? Could this be used to enable Powered and TogglePower for the light posts? If they had an active anim which had the AlphaImage, then on low power that activeanim gets disabled? The alpha light might still remain there even if the animation is halted though.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Allied General
General


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

blubb wrote:
think of a gameplay wise purpose before adding anything useless


QFT

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID Facebook Profile URL Twitter Channel URL
Death Cultist
Scorpion Sniper


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe just scrap em if they are a pain

_________________
Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

some thing i can think of is, give nod chameleon spies wich can be stealthed and scout out bases, or sabotage things, then give GDI light posts as early game detectors aside from sensor arrays, give light post a sensor range of 4 or so and players can place them along gates in early games, wich can detect unwanted guests, thats the only thing i can think of now, but only useful for low tier tech

_________________

Hydraw Art on Facebook

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

blubb wrote:
some thing i can think of is, give nod chameleon spies wich can be stealthed and scout out bases, or sabotage things, then give GDI light posts as early game detectors aside from sensor arrays, give light post a sensor range of 4 or so and players can place them along gates in early games, wich can detect unwanted guests, thats the only thing i can think of now, but only useful for low tier tech


The Forgotten already have stealthed early game scouts. But hmm, if the light post had too large stealth detection range they might make sensor arrays useless. Maybe if I just gave it Sensors=yes, so it would reveal any stealth that is 1 square away from it? Or maybe stealth detection range 2, max 3.

EDIT: Realised there's one problem if the light post used SensorArray=yes and CloakRadiusInCells=3. The light posts would also detect subterranean movement, which would be bit weird. With Sensors=yes they would only reveal stealth. And they wouldn't detect it exactly, but rather reveal it, which makes sense.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if there were a way to give normal sensors a wider range it would be nice, 3 to 4 cells wouldn't steal the advantage of a sensor vehicle because vehicles cover a large area for no power at all.

_________________

Hydraw Art on Facebook

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Death Cultist
Scorpion Sniper


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you could make them lightning rods to attract ion bolts

_________________
Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Volgin
Commander


Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

then you can probably make a farm of them on maps with constant or frequent storms. Don't waste the time, or make buildings glow specifically.

_________________
Victory!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry for bumping.

Since you like to experiment, try the tiled light instead. The tiled light can be colored (Red for Nod, Gold for GDI, Green for Forgotten) and it turns of when low on power.
However when i tested the keys long ago on a player buildable structure they worked quite weird. The intensity was different between single and multiplayer and in MP i had to use quite strong lights, since a low intensity made them not show any light at all.

As for the higher sensor range, you could give them an invisible activeanim which spawns debris that do insignificant damage and after that heal the same amount again. Every stealthed unit hit by that would uncloak.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have experimented with the LightRedTint, LightBlueTint, LightGreenTint, LightIntensity and LightVisibility keys to use for the buildable light posts. Like you said they have the advantage of going off in low power, and you can toggle them on / off in maps that have night / day cycle. But visually they do look worse than the alphaimage, and apparently cause the game to slow down much more? I haven't really decided which one to use. The MP / SP light difference sounds really weird. Are you sure the map code didn't adjust the light values? Are there any global or map specific keys that could affect it, other than the keys that affect the building itself?

As for the stealth detection debris, that could slow down the game too if someone spammed the light posts (the debris spawning would need to happen quite often and over a large area). The light posts have little gameplay value anyway, so the Sensors=yes is probably enough. At least it gives SOMETHING beside the lightning. Of course one could argue that the light posts shouldn't even be buildable, but I find myself more likely to build a light post in a dark map, than to ever build a gate (and there's two of those in the sidebar).

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tested it on the conyard in a testmap, so there was really no special light setting in the map. It was really strange. With a very high intensity the light was visible in multiplayer and when i went below a certain intensity it completely turned off.

Maybe you also want to experiment with a colored lighting using activeanims. (see my 9th post there)


The debris don't need to spawn that often. 2 every second should be enough. Then there is still a chance to get by the post unseen.
A single debris is also able to uncloak any unit within a 3x3 area, so if they fly only 1-2 cells away it should be already enough and 2 debris would cover very quick the whole lighted area.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am leaning towards tiled lightning for the light posts. The ability to turn them on / off is cool and works really nicely for maps with day / night cycle. The lightning can look bit blocky, but in the 2nd pic I adjusted the values further and I think the result in it already looks quite good.

Turning lights on and off:




Adjusted values:


_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think they can be improved even further by reducing the intensity and raising a bit the range. After all they don't need to be that bright and that concentrated to such a small area imo.

But they do indeed look already quite good.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a version with the range increased a bit. I already tried with lower intensities and it started to look bit unnatural. Like the light post wasn't properly giving off light, yet covering a very large area.


_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Noticed a horrible bug with buildable tiled lightning. If you build light posts and save your game, then load it, the tiled lightning has permanently become part of the map. Doesn't matter if you disable or even destroy the light posts, the lightning will never go away. Yay for crappy WW code.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WTF O.O
That's probably the most ugly WW coding ever.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zero18
Commander


Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's so nasty! Did it happens to the original build able alpha light posts too?

I suggest that you try to test with colored light posts like red lightpost . See if it has the same effect.

_________________
Mod Leader and founder of World Domination


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

alpha lights work different. Savegames work fine on them, but they have other issues which make them impractical.

Red lightpost is nothing different. It uses the same keys for the tiled light.


@SuperJoe: does your light post had Insignificant=yes or other special keys like DemandLoad in art.ini? Maybe the fact that the light was saved is a result of some special memory management caused by certain keys.

_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SuperJoe
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
@SuperJoe: does your light post had Insignificant=yes or other special keys like DemandLoad in art.ini? Maybe the fact that the light was saved is a result of some special memory management caused by certain keys.


Yeah I tried every imaginable key in rules.ini (Insignificant=yes/no, Nominal=yes/no, BaseNormal=yes/no, etc) and tried using different images for it (GATICK, GAARTY) which don't have any of the DemandLoad keys. Nothing seems to stop the bug. Not only does the bug happen for buildable light posts using tiled lightning, but if you have light posts preplaced on the map (e.g. the original GALITE) they too will get bugged after loading a savegame. So the tiled lightning should pretty much only be used for invisible and immune light posts.

Funny how the alphaimage light can't be disabled, but the tiled lightning can. The alphaimage light doesn't get bugged when loading a save, but the tiled lightning does. So yeah, typical WW scenario where you just have two bad choises. In the end I went back to the alphaimage lights since the tiled lightning bug is pretty severe. Shame cause I was starting to actually like the tiled lightning alot, with proper values I found it better and more natural looking than the alphaimage light. Being able to disable the lights was a fun mechanic as well.

_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
w20adm
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 02 Mar 2019

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperJoe wrote:
I am leaning towards tiled lightning for the light posts. The ability to turn them on / off is cool and works really nicely for maps with day / night cycle. The lightning can look bit blocky, but in the 2nd pic I adjusted the values further and I think the result in it already looks quite good.

Turning lights on and off:




Adjusted values:



Sorry to bump an old thread, but how do you get light posts to turn off at low power? Just played the old demo missions on tiberian sun client and the red lamps went off when power plants were destroyed!  Is there a simple ini change to make this happen?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Add Powered=Yes and Power=1 to the light post.

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL Twitter Channel URL
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [30 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
 
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

[ Time: 0.2209s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0121s) ][ Debug on ]