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AI.ini - PLEASE HELP!!!!!
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TiberFCSL
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject:  AI.ini - PLEASE HELP!!!!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Code:
08596D20-G=H_GDI vehicle attack 1,07ECD3B0-G,<all>,3,-1,GAWEAP,0100000003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,60.000000,60.000000,60.000000,1,0,1,0,07ECD3B0-G,0,0,1


This is an AITriggerTypes line.
I know, in TS, that number in the place where it's the "-1":
0 means: enemy owns a thing
1 means: AI owns a thing

So WTF means "-1"? Don't say it means "nothing" nor "no condition" and that it's for pool teams, as most pool teams have a "1", and this code line isn't from a pool team either.

That's my question.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-1 means ignore the condition and just create the team I think. I've seen it used most on recruiter teams.

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why ignore the condition if the next word is the condition? It doesn't make any sense. Anyway, thanks for your answer Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

probably because you can't have a "null" or "nothing" condition and an empty condition string might cause more trouble, than a specific -1 for using no condition.

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's also "-1's" with <none> as condition, in that case the "no condition" makes sense, but then why is the "GAWEAP" there and other buildings in other AI triggers?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know, WW didn't always coded the inis 100% perfect as well.Wink
They didn't knew how to code correct
-tiberium debris
-nuke silo anims
-activeanims (often use wrong zadjust, forgot keys like Start= etc)
-used keys which doesn't exist (e.g. IsBase) and mixed up Names (e.g. they used on the Owner key, which accepts Houses, the Name "Civilian" which is a side instead of "Neutral" which is the house)
-etc etc

WW, was like "If it works, don't think further about it and keep it that way".

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, but, the "-1" with the "building" combination has been used also in Twisted Insurrection's AI.ini.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The TI AI is also far from being finish. Wink

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^Rampastein
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The TI AI is also far from being finish. Wink
And it's (at least currently) heavily based on the WW TS AI.

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why did you made this topic and PM-ed me?

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TiberFCSL
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Because after I made this topic, decided to look for TI staff's AI coder to assure I'd get a good answer, then I found you Smile

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^Rampastein
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but I'm feeling like clearing this up someday: Dutchy made the AI for TI Public Beta 1 but didn't write a single line of AI code for Public Beta 2; instead I took the job for it. After PB2's release Dutchy has again continued the work from the base which I did for PB2.

I believe the conclusion which pretty much all more experienced and active AI coders have come to is that -1 means no condition. Even if it wouldn't mean that, it's best to use it as such and use other numbers for the condition stuff.

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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To quote from my PM:
Quote:
-1: This Player's enemy owns (the enemy of the AI)
1: This player owns (the AI)

This is at least what I know from TI AI. I use 1 so the AI respects their prerequisites. From what I saw TS uses a lot of -1 in their standard teams. I always assumed that this means that the AI's enemy must own something. Of course, this is all assumptions; as I want my AI to respect their prerequisites, I mostly use triggers with 1.

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use 0 and "enemy owns" works... So maybe 0 and -1 are the same? Hmmm.. in original AI.ini the "-1" it's in triggers with some buildings, ENGINEER and <none> as condition...

Original AI.ini uses "0" for:
Units: Harvester (HARV and HORV), all aircraft and Jumpjet Infantry
Buildings: Construction Yard, Refinery, Missile Silo, Upgrade Center

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^Rampastein
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

According to the original Absturz's AI Guide 0 and -1 are the same, but I haven't seen other proof for it other than WW's coding (and like LKO said, the quality of that is questionable -- especially with AI coding). If it's true, I think it still makes the files cleaner if you use -1 for no-condition triggers.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
-1 AI pool team trigger (autocreated thus not attached to the AIGenerals)
0 trigger when enemy owns the Unit Type or Tech Type
1 trigger when computer owns the Unit Type or Tech Type
2 trigger when enemy has low power (power is in Yellow)
3 trigger when enemy has low power (power is in Red)
4 trigger based on number of Credits held by enemy
5 trigger when Iron Curtain is charged to amount specified by AIMinorSuperReadyPercent= in RULES.INI
6 trigger when Chronosphere is charged to amount specified by AIMinorSuperReadyPercent= in RULES.INI
7 trigger when neutral owns the Unit Type or Tech Type

From Dee's INI Guide. -1 does have some significance as in being a special case. Westwood had tons of those.

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your post, but It's not relevant in this topic the Deezire's guide. Why? Because in TS's original AI.ini, "-1" isn't used for pool teams, in fact, they all use "1", plus, Dutchygamer uses "-1" for "enemy owns"...

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now the question it's not what is "-1" or "0" for (both do the same, enemy owns), but in what cases is better to use one or another.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use -1 for pool teams, 0 for enemy owns X and 1 for AI owns X. I'm not sure if -1 has any significance other than "autocreate this and ignore conditions."

[EDIT] However, I write AI stuff for RA2 rather than TS, but it shouldn't be all that different.

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TiberFCSL
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had thought the same as you, maybe in RA2 it's different. But maybe in TS, a -1 with a <none> can create a pool team, that's the way you do in RA2?

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I do that and it works, but I have the teams do things like miner hunt. I know Westwood does the same thing in TS, but not RA2.

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