Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:05 am Post subject:
Hi.
NOTE: I didn't really find much of an "introductions" topic (if it does exist, do kindly point the right way).
Hi, guys, I'm Castellan.
I've recently gotten back into Tiberian Sun and, on a whim, decided to look up mods for it. I found a few which were to my liking (notably, Twisted Insurrection and TS Retro, both of which I have installed right now; separately, of course) and decided to give a hand at some basic modding myself.
At the moment, all I've done is simply replicate light infantry and having them use different weapons (shotgun, sniper rifle, etc). It was pretty cool to be able to see them work ingame. I also replicated the Amphibious APC into a stronger "Assault APC" with increased health but noticeably slower movement speed, which works really well in the campaign missions (almost all of my current work is mostly on a whim because I wanted more troop variety). I hope to learn more about modding and actually try to work on making a third faction with it's own campaign, though from what I have read, the campaign limit is 4, and I think Retro created 2 campaigns alongside the NOD and GDI ones that are both tutorials.
Currently, I'm trying how to figure out how keep my infantry's ingame look the same while changing trying their icons (I'm trying to get the infantry to look like the Ghost Stalker without having his rather ugly gunman-with-a-mullet icon in the production bar; trying to keep it the same as the original Light Infantry icon it was supposed to be). I thought I'd ask a question, but feared that I'd look stupid (the forum search is okay, but mostly, doesn't really clarify what I'm looking for), so I just decided to make an intro thread instead.
Other things: Tiberian Sun was actually my second RTS, behind Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. I borrowed it from my uncle when I was young, from the old CnC Theatre of War collection; the originals and RA2 weren't in there, unfortunately, though it did spark my love of CnC where I bought them all somewhere down the line.
I played the hell out of TS when I was younger (though often cried at how brutal the skirmish AI was). Then I found RA2 along with Yuri's Revenge, and instantly fell in love with it; it became my go-to CNC game for many years (and still is, actually, but at the moment, is not installed).
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Location: Star Kingdom of Manticore
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:34 am Post subject:
Welcome to PPM!
It's awesome to see completely new members who are foreign to modding. Many of the new members here can mod, but lots of them think they are all high-and-mighty.
As for your modding, it's good to see that you came into it with a non-cheating, more balanced approach. I haven't cracked open an INI file in aaaages haha.
Anywho, Nice to meet you Castellan.
Im daTS, you'll learn pretty quick I have two very distinct reputations, one one side, I'm a conceited asshole who thinks he's the shit (hey, nothing wrong with self esteem, is there?) and on the other, I'm super helpful. My knowledge of the TS Engine is pretty solid (although nothing compared to some like Hyper and LKO).
It's great to see newcomers! Welcome to PPM. I hope you have a great time. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you get around or find something! _________________ "Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there." -Adam Young QUICK_EDIT
I'm DonutArnold and I'm one of the global moderators, so if you have issues with people who are behaving badly or accidentally creating a post in a wrong sub-forum (or anything related), you can PM me.
I also am one of the many 3d modellers around here and currently I'm mainly working on with a Tiberian Sun mod called Tiberian Odyssey.
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:17 am Post subject:
Re: Hi.
Greetings Castellan. My name is Crimsonum, Crim for short. As DaTS kindly pointed out, it's nice to get new members who have little to no previous experience on modding. I already have a feeling like you'll fit in well.
Castellan wrote:
Currently, I'm trying how to figure out how keep my infantry's ingame look the same while changing trying their icons (I'm trying to get the infantry to look like the Ghost Stalker without having his rather ugly gunman-with-a-mullet icon in the production bar; trying to keep it the same as the original Light Infantry icon it was supposed to be).
First off, we have some common terms for the things you mean:
SHP sprite/image. SHP files are sprite images, usually an animated collection of several frames. Infantry and buildings in most classic C&C games use, without an exception, SHP images. Any SHP image can be edited with a single software, conveniently called SHP Editor.
A cameo icon is the icon that appears on the production a.k.a. sidebar.
So if I understood correctly, you only want to change the unit's cameo icon, not their ingame image? In this case, go to the unit's rules.ini (I assume you're familiar with this since you have already created new units. If not, check the link to Newbie Guide to Modding below) section, and give it Image=GHOST2 (with GHOST2 only being an example, you can put anykind of name there you want). Next, open the art.ini (all .ini files can be and are recommended to be opened with notepad), clone the section you want the infantry unit to look like (I assume it's Ghostalker, so search for GHOST), and edit the clone section's name to GHOST2 (or whatever you used for the Image= flag). Now, to have a different cameo icon for the unit, replace the Cameo flag entry. E1 (Light Infantry) uses "e1icon" if I recall correctly, though you can simply check this from the E1 entry in the art.ini.
Now that the code is OK, you need to clone the Ghostalker's SHP file, and rename it to GHOST2 (or, again, to whatever you used before). Unit and infantry SHPs are located in the conquer.mix file, which itself is packed inside the tibsun.mix. To open mix files and to import and export files into them, you'll need the XCC Utilities, which you can get from the Modding Tools link below.
Once you've copied the GHOST.shp, put the copy inside a custom mix file, preferably ecache##.mix (## can be any number between 02 to 99, 00 is fine too. The Firestorm add-on for Tiberian Sun includes an ecache01, which is why that number is occupied), and you're set! Now your unit should have the image of Ghoststalker, but the cameo icon of a Light Infantry.
Further reading:
I recommend you check out this Newbie Guide to Modding. It'll help you on the right path with easy steps.
For most if not all the modding tools you'll need, check out this topic.
You might also want to check UMP, short for Unofficial Mini-Patch, for Tiberian Sun. It can be used as a base for your mod, as it only fixes several bugs without changing or adding any gameplay features.
The Mod-Enc is a very useful, wiki-like website, where you can find information of almost anything modding related. Be advised, though, some information may be out-dated, shown by the red "Deezire-definitions" box in such pages. Still, I use it to check out what a certain INI flag stands for, if I'm unsure about its function.
Castellan wrote:
I thought I'd ask a question, but feared that I'd look stupid (the forum search is okay, but mostly, doesn't really clarify what I'm looking for), so I just decided to make an intro thread instead.
No, no, asking a valid question like that is never stupid, no matter how simple it might seem. True, it's best to first search for an answer, but if you can't find one, go ahead and ask. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Welcome, make yourself at home. Anything I can help with, I'll do so, and anything I can't help with, I'll still try.
As Donut said, enjoy your time here.
(Hint: Find the Ghost Stalker entry in the art.ini, [GHOST] iirc, and you'll see the cameo is listed there. You can substitute it for any of the other cameos, so long as you know the name ) QUICK_EDIT
Hi, my name is Scorched, and I have an addiction to alcohol.
...wait, this isn't...?
Well, anyway, welcome to PPM. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but it's always nice to see new members around, and I hope you'll enjoy PPM. _________________ Okay, my signature was starting to annoy even me. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject:
Woah, a newbie who uses more then 1 sentence to explain his problem! That is really unique. Excuse my sarcasm
You can call me Dutchy (as most of the lot here do), and I am/used to be one of the local AI experts for TS/RA2. I also am one of the few Generals modders on this site. QUICK_EDIT
I seriously advise looking at the tutorials section as well when you get a chance. It can provide good insight into what the engine can and can't do.
That said though, the engine can be made to do some cool shit. Just don't ask for helicopter rotors. Those will never happen. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Hi.
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone. I hope to learn more and hopefully go beyond just simply replicating units.
Crimsonum wrote:
First off, we have some common terms for the things you mean:
SHP sprite/image. SHP files are sprite images, usually an animated collection of several frames. Infantry and buildings in most classic C&C games use, without an exception, SHP images. Any SHP image can be edited with a single software, conveniently called SHP Editor.
A cameo icon is the icon that appears on the production a.k.a. sidebar.
I've sort of seen those terms in various searches but never really paid much attention to them. I am aware of vehicle/aircraft voxels, though.
Quote:
So if I understood correctly, you only want to change the unit's cameo icon, not their ingame image? In this case, go to the unit's rules.ini (I assume you're familiar with this since you have already created new units. If not, check the link to Newbie Guide to Modding below) section, and give it Image=GHOST2 (with GHOST2 only being an example, you can put anykind of name there you want). Next, open the art.ini (all .ini files can be and are recommended to be opened with notepad), clone the section you want the infantry unit to look like (I assume it's Ghostalker, so search for GHOST), and edit the clone section's name to GHOST2 (or whatever you used for the Image= flag). Now, to have a different cameo icon for the unit, replace the Cameo flag entry. E1 (Light Infantry) uses "e1icon" if I recall correctly, though you can simply check this from the E1 entry in the art.ini.
Yep, you are correct. I'm just trying to change the cameo to something else whilst keeping the SHP the same. It didn't occur to me that you had to set the Image= to something else; I merely thought it was for the SHP of the unit and that the cameo for the unit was set in art.ini.
Quote:
Now that the code is OK, you need to clone the Ghostalker's SHP file, and rename it to GHOST2 (or, again, to whatever you used before). Unit and infantry SHPs are located in the conquer.mix file, which itself is packed inside the tibsun.mix. To open mix files and to import and export files into them, you'll need the XCC Utilities, which you can get from the Modding Tools link below.
Well, this is certainly new to me. I wasn't aware on how to import/export files into the .mix via XCC Utilities.
Quote:
Once you've copied the GHOST.shp, put the copy inside a custom mix file, preferably ecache##.mix (## can be any number between 02 to 99, 00 is fine too. The Firestorm add-on for Tiberian Sun includes an ecache01, which is why that number is occupied), and you're set! Now your unit should have the image of Ghoststalker, but the cameo icon of a Light Infantry.
How is this custom .mix file produced? Do I use XCC Utilities for this? And I just simply "import" the SHP into the .mix?
Quote:
Further reading:
I recommend you check out this Newbie Guide to Modding. It'll help you on the right path with easy steps.
For most if not all the modding tools you'll need, check out this topic.
You might also want to check UMP, short for Unofficial Mini-Patch, for Tiberian Sun. It can be used as a base for your mod, as it only fixes several bugs without changing or adding any gameplay features.
The Mod-Enc is a very useful, wiki-like website, where you can find information of almost anything modding related. Be advised, though, some information may be out-dated, shown by the red "Deezire-definitions" box in such pages. Still, I use it to check out what a certain INI flag stands for, if I'm unsure about its function.
Good reads; in fact, the Newbie Guide was one of the first things I read when I found this site. I'll be sure to check out the rest of the links for further how-to.
And on an ending note, my combat engineer didn't work out well. I ended up cloning MilitiaShotgun from the rules.ini for him to use as a weapon, but found that it didn't work correctly as the engineer (despite the range of the shotgun being the same as that of the light infantry rifle) has to fire the shotgun point-blank at targets, which makes him rather susceptible to being squished or easily killed. So that's my new focus as of right now.
I do have a working combat sniper. Weaker than light infantry, but has faster movement speed and his anti-infantry ability more than makes up for it. Kind of useless in Firestorm against Cabal's Cyborg army, though (which is intended, as I wanted a specialized situation for each of my new infantry). If I can, in the future I will replace his SHP with a unique one.
Once I learn enough, though, the next step up will be to try to make an entirely new infantry unit complete with his own SHPs and animations. I sort of wanted it to be a hero power-armor infantry utilizing a weapon like the man-portable ion cannon from CnC: Renegade.
Again, thanks for the welcome. It's nice to be here. QUICK_EDIT
Well you've got a lot of help already so all I can say is yes, the tutorials will help you out. They range from simple things like adding new units to advanced things like new factions and making a nuclear missile. TS is a good start as even non-Tiberian Sun modders can say that it's the easiest to mod. _________________ Tiberium Uprising (a few missions for TS): http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31029 QUICK_EDIT
It's nice to see someone introduce themselves properly and talk with proper clarity unlike the usual internet gibberish that comes through here. QUICK_EDIT
Anyways, to Crimsonum, thank you for the help; it's nice to be able to receive some actual hands-on aid with making these. I did what you said (I think), and I've run into an internal error. So far, this is what I've done:
1. Set the image of my unit to GHOST2 in rules.ini.
2. Copied GHOST section in art.ini, renamed to GHOST2, set Cameo=E1ICON.
3. Extracted ghost.shp from conquer.mix and renamed it to ghost2.shp.
4. Created ecache02.mix via XCC Mixer.
5. Moved ecache02.mix to the SUN folder.
6. Opened ecache02.mix via XCC Mix Editor, inserted ghost2.shp, saved and compacted (I'm not sure what compacting it does, but I need to do it otherwise the changes aren't applied).
7. Started up the game, tested in skirmish, received internal error upon loading.
Here is what I have in rules.ini (for those who followed the now-defunct Tiberium FPS, you might recognize the name 'RAID'):
Code:
[RAID]
Image=GHOST2
Name=RAID Soldier
Category=Soldier
IsCanine=yes //I'm not really sure what this is supposed to do, so I left it as is; MOD-ENC doesn't do a good job of explaining it
Prerequisite=BARRACKS
Primary=HvRail
TiberiumHeal=yes
CrushSound=SQUISHY2
TiberiumProof=yes
Strength=600
Armor=light
TechLevel=4
Pip=white
Sight=7
Speed=5
Owner=GDI
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Cost=500
Points=5
Trainable=yes
VoiceSelect=15-I000,15-I002,15-I004,15-I012,15-I048
VoiceMove=15-I018,15-I024,15-I044,15-I016
VoiceAttack=15-I044,15-I050,15-I044,15-I046,15-I020
VoiceFeedback=15-I058,15-I064,38-N018
VoiceDie=DEDMAN1,DEDMAN2,DEDMAN3,DEDMAN4,DEDMAN5,DEDMAN6,DEDMAN7,DEDMAN8,DEDMAN9,DEDMAN10,DEDMAN11,DEDMAN12,DEDMAN13,DEDMAN14,DEDMAN15,DEDMAN16,DEDMAN17
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize=1
MovementZone=Infantry
ThreatPosed=25
SpecialThreatValue=1
ImmuneToVeins=yes
VeteranAbilities=FIREPOWER,SCATTER
EliteAbilities=STRONGER
In art.ini (the only thing changed here is the cameo):
It worked without errors earlier, but didn't have an SHP loaded for the unit ingame. I went back and made a new ecache02 and instead of just leaving it as ecache02, added in the .mix at the end (I assumed that XCC Mixer would automatically format it into a new .mix file without the .mix in the filename, which it didn't) and that brought me to my current predicament. QUICK_EDIT
If that double backslash is in your rules.ini, Kill it.
;semicolons mark text that the game will ignore to leave footnotes, use that instead. You only need one, though devs (particularly in RA2 or to point out something urgent to each other) would put like... ten in some sections.
MovementZone=InfantryDestroyer ;GEF wow!!! copy paste bug from the original Disk Thrower!
IsCanine= is if I remember right a Red Alert 1 leftover that doesn't work and made attack dogs recognize spy disguises. That logic of detection is broken anyway, though, so that tag is meaningless. If it worked, Ghost Stalker would probably kill half the teammates and buildings in his path if he detected a spy.
There are quite a few worthless or broken tags in the INIs... there should be a list somewhere of these tags on the internet (I'm actually quite certain one exists, if not, composing one would be worth it). _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
If that double backslash is in your rules.ini, Kill it.
;semicolons mark text that the game will ignore to leave footnotes, use that instead. You only need one, though devs (particularly in RA2 or to point out something urgent to each other) would put like... ten in some sections.
It isn't in the actual .ini file. I just put it in because I was curious, and it was a habit brought about by programming.
Quote:
IsCanine= is if I remember right a Red Alert 1 leftover that doesn't work and made attack dogs recognize spy disguises. That logic of detection is broken anyway, though, so that tag is meaningless. If it worked, Ghost Stalker would probably kill half the teammates and buildings in his path if he detected a spy.
That clarifies a lot. I remember those dogs from one of the early levels of RA1.
Quote:
There are quite a few worthless or broken tags in the INIs... there should be a list somewhere of these tags on the internet (I'm actually quite certain one exists, if not, composing one would be worth it).
Crimsonum linked me to Mod-Enc, where they actually had an entry on it, but was sketchy at best (due to forewarned "red box warning" that it had). QUICK_EDIT
How is this custom .mix file produced? Do I use XCC Utilities for this? And I just simply "import" the SHP into the .mix?
You will have to use the XCC Mix Editor that comes with the Utilities pack to create new .mix files. XCC Mixer on the other hand is best used to view and open .mix files, and extracting files from them.
There are some rules applied to how .mix files are treated by the game; read about them here. Note that although it's not stated in the ModEnc article, voxel and HVA files are commonly put to expand##-mixes.
Quote:
And on an ending note, my combat engineer didn't work out well. I ended up cloning MilitiaShotgun from the rules.ini for him to use as a weapon, but found that it didn't work correctly as the engineer (despite the range of the shotgun being the same as that of the light infantry rifle) has to fire the shotgun point-blank at targets, which makes him rather susceptible to being squished or easily killed. So that's my new focus as of right now.
Any infantry with Engineer=yes cannot use weapons properly, as it messes up with the engineer capture/repair logic.
Quote:
Here is what I have in rules.ini (for those who followed the now-defunct Tiberium FPS, you might recognize the name 'RAID'):
Since you have created an entirely new infantry unit, you don't necessarily need the 'Image' tag (flag, tag, key; just a few common ways address it). The unit's section name (RAID in this case) will tell the game to look for [RAID] in the art.ini, unless the Image tag states otherwise.
In rules.ini, make sure you have put RAID somewhere in the [InfantryTypes] list, preferably as the last one (so it won't mess up mission scripts or maps with preplaced infantry). Nearly all objects are listed in such lists, infantry in [InfantryTypes], buildings in [BuildingTypes], etc. The few exceptions I can think of are weapons and projectiles, which are not defined in such lists.
Btw, most flags are already explained in the .inis, for example in rules.ini there is a section that explains most flags that are applicable to UnitTypes. Ctrl+f is a handy way to maneuver on the .inis while viewing them with notepad.
Quote:
(I'm not sure what compacting it does, but I need to do it otherwise the changes aren't applied).
Apparently it compresses and saves the file, but I usually only click 'save', which should apply the changes.
When you encounter an Internal Error, the game generates an 'except.txt' file to the game folder. This contains information about the error, and is useful (for those who can read it) for tracing the cause of the error. As for any IEs you face in the future, and can't seem to find the cause, post the excepts here. There's also some common IE EIPs, though not many for TS, listed here (the EIP value in except.txt reports the cause of the error). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You will have to use the XCC Mix Editor that comes with the Utilities pack to create new .mix files. XCC Mixer on the other hand is best used to view and open .mix files, and extracting files from them.
I had to use XCC Mixer to create a new .mix file, because the Mix Editor doesn't let me use the New function to make one. Not sure if that's supposed to be the case. The ecache02.mix I have right now has the .shp, but I don't think the game is reading it correctly. This may be the cause.
In any case, I forgot to rename the .shp from the .mix to raid.shp. I'll fix that and see if it works.
Quote:
Any infantry with Engineer=yes cannot use weapons properly, as it messes up with the engineer capture/repair logic.
Ah, I see. I always thought that Engineers that weren't armed seemed odd. Guess I can understand why now due to the game mechanics.
Quote:
Since you have created an entirely new infantry unit, you don't necessarily need the 'Image' tag (flag, tag, key; just a few common ways address it). The unit's section name (RAID in this case) will tell the game to look for [RAID] in the art.ini, unless the Image tag states otherwise.
I wasn't entirely too sure how that worked. Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote:
In rules.ini, make sure you have put RAID somewhere in the [InfantryTypes] list, preferably as the last one (so it won't mess up mission scripts or maps with preplaced infantry). Nearly all objects are listed in such lists, infantry in [InfantryTypes], buildings in [BuildingTypes], etc. The few exceptions I can think of are weapons and projectiles, which are not defined in such lists.
Yep, one of the first things I did was to add the new infantry to the InfantryTypes list.
Quote:
Btw, most flags are already explained in the .inis, for example in rules.ini there is a section that explains most flags that are applicable to UnitTypes. Ctrl+f is a handy way to maneuver on the .inis while viewing them with notepad.
I haven't seen that list, but I'll check it out. And, yes, I've been using CTRL+F to locate my text (it's the quickest way to get to it).
Quote:
Apparently it compresses and saves the file, but I usually only click 'save', which should apply the changes.
I tried it again, and it turns out that Save now does indeed work. Which is odd, because the first few times I used it, it didn't.
Quote:
When you encounter an Internal Error, the game generates an 'except.txt' file to the game folder. This contains information about the error, and is useful (for those who can read it) for tracing the cause of the error. As for any IEs you face in the future, and can't seem to find the cause, post the excepts here. There's also some common IE EIPs, though not many for TS, listed here (the EIP value in except.txt reports the cause of the error).
I'll be posting my except.txt in that thread in case my .shp replacement doesn't work out.
EDIT: Okay, it didn't work. Going to post the except.txt now. I think it might actually be the .mix file causing the problems since I created it in XCC Mixer instead of XCC Mix Editor (but the Editor won't let me, keeps the button grayed out). QUICK_EDIT
Welcome to PPM, Cpl. Dwayne Hicks! Wait, I mean, Castellan! Have a nice time in here. I may be not as knowledgeable as the rest of people around, but I would be glad to help if I can.
(No, I didn't read all the text, I'm sorry) _________________ Oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer. QUICK_EDIT
That is indeed strange. Perhaps you could try uninstalling and reinstalling the XCC utilities just in case.
I'll give that a try and see if it works. Do I have to be in a specific folder to do so, or am I supposed to be able to create a new .mix file anywhere?
Azkhare wrote:
Welcome to PPM, Cpl. Dwayne Hicks! Wait, I mean, Castellan! Have a nice time in here. I may be not as knowledgeable as the rest of people around, but I would be glad to help if I can.
Thanks for the welcome.
And that is indeed Cpl. Hicks, who is played by Michael Biehn, who also played as Commander "Mac" McNeil in Tiberian Sun. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Apr 2009 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:48 am Post subject:
Well while we are doing intro's Im Death Cultist, people call me Death Cultist. I have a pretty fair knowledge of the TS engine. Anyway welcome to PPM enjoy your stay. _________________ Beta Tester for Mental Omega 3.0
Do I have to be in a specific folder to do so, or am I supposed to be able to create a new .mix file anywhere?
Yes, you should be able to install it anywhere (I usually keep a folder containing all the modding tools in the same root folder as my C&C games for the sake of order) and also create .mix files anywhere. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Hmm, that's odd. I reinstalled XCC Utilities, yet the "New" option for the Mix Editor still doesn't work. I even installed it to the different/default directories and it still does this. As it is, I can only Open, Load Key, or go to the XCC Home Page.
A problem, since from what I can see, it's the .mix file that's causing the problem. Does the creation method of a .mix file differ between the Mixer and the Mix Editor? QUICK_EDIT
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Hi.
