Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:11 am Post subject:
OpenRA: A case of successful game engine.
Subject description: Awesome indie RTS engine that lacks a proper AI.
Hola! I've reported a lot of attempts from community fans to create their own RTS engine to recreate C&C games free of charge in the past. The most successful attempt so far is definitely OpenRA.
Its engine recreates both Red Alert 1 and Command & Conquer 95. It's highly moddable and easy to switch between mods. You can edit its easily readable .yaml files with any text editor to create a new interface, factions, units, weapons.... etc. The game uses SHP graphics from .mix files that are hidden at the OpenRA directory inside My Documents.
If you play Red Alert with it, you can also fully customize your faction colours and even spectate matches if you desire. You can also select the teams from each player and play against 7 people online. The mechanism of choosing the start location of each player exists, although it is not very intuitive. You have to click in a start location at the minimap to add a player and click in a non-starting position in the minimap to remove the player. The game saves replays from all your matches and lets you watch them later.
The weak point of this engine (which is still in public testing stages and it has several work in progress features) is the artificial inteligence behind all units and enemy AI players. Harvesters have their natural ability to commit suicide by approaching enemy bases in a very risky way. It also enjoys collecting ore from distant places even if there is a lot of ore in your backyard. Sometimes, the harvester does not return back to the refinery, even if it is alive. Units are also not very smart when choosing targets to attack. It also attacks any close buildings making the use of engineers to conquer enemy buildings a much more complicated operation. AI players builds bases in a very weird way focusing too much in ore refineries. Of course, they are important, in the same way that base defenses, advanced power plants and other structures are important and are rarely built. AI sends one wave against a random enemy and the next wave stays on hold until the current wave is defeated. I mean, even if the AI base is attacked, the next wave is still on hold and it won't defend the base or the harvesters. Sometimes the existing attacking wave stops attacking the enemy when there is no target nearby, even if the enemy is still has a lot of units or buildings. I'm sure that the behavior of AI will get several improvements. In the latest public build, it has gained the ability to repair its buildings.
You can play with some of the AI settings at system.yaml. The problem is that the way it was designed makes it moddability very limited. It allows you to define the percentage of buildings and units that each AI will build and there isn't much more than that. A simple idea to improve it is to allow us to customize the number of each building and unit that AI should build (keeping the option of percentage). Customizable build order would also be interesting. Also, it should allow us to customize the number of waves that AI will build. The script types, task forces and AI trigger types seen in Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 are far more complicated to be implemented.
Anyway, the engine is excellent for multiplayer matches and it is growing a lot, getting several releases every month. The latest one came in the middle of the last month. Here's the changelog:
Quote:
Here are the changes since the previous release:
8 new community made RA maps
Base under attack notifications ('spacebar' focuses screen to last event)
New unit stance: Defend ('Z' cycles unit stances)
Improved aircraft logic
- Aircraft will assign themselves to empty airfields/helipads when returning to base
- Aircraft can now use ally airfields and helipads
UI Changes:
- New server browser for RA and CNC
- Changed layout of RA's mod chooser
Option to toggle the shellmap on and off
Added executable args:
- Join a server on game start up: Game.ConnectTo=ip:port
- Limit framerate: Graphics.CapFramerate=bool
Improvements to bots
- Bots now maintain aggro with players
- Bots repair their own structures
- Moved some bot configuration into system.yaml
Editor changes
- Menu item to set up default players in map editor
- Added dropdown in editor for choosing owner of new actors
Gameplay balance tweaks
- MiGs fire in bursts of 2 instead of 4, damage increased
- Longbows fire in bursts of 2 instead of 1
- Mammoth regenerates health differently (25hp/second, if 10 seconds since unit was last damaged)
- Tesla tank costs less, armor increased
- Flamethrower tech requirement lowered
- Minelayer (Anti-Tank) holds 3 mines instead of 5
- Submarine, Missile Sub and Stealth Tank have a 'HoldFire' stance by default
Many various tweaks, bug fixes and mod support changes
- Allow units to pass over both types of mines
- Helicopters bob in flight
- Game remembers last map played
- Team color pickers between CNC/RA mods were unified
- SpawnMPUnits initial unit is now configurable
- Added support for negative prerequisites
- Fixed a crash when playing with AI online
- Fixed a crash in the CNC lobby
- Fixed the writing of empty replays
- Fixed a bug with RepairableNear where ships would repair from anywhere
Head to OpenRA official site to download it and modify it. Have fun! QUICK_EDIT
I don't know why you'd actually want to keep the Tech Center bug...but removing squashing is unforgivable. Not even the ability to finally have high-res Red Alert can compensate for such insolence. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
At least the last time I played it, the possibility of crushing infantry simply wasn't there. I don't know if the engine supports it however, or is it just not implemented in their mods for design reasons.
At least the last time I played it, the possibility of crushing infantry simply wasn't there. I don't know if the engine supports it however, or is it just not implemented in their mods for design reasons.
With redesigned unit balance and no crushing, the name "OpenRA" is rather deceiving tbh.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.- _________________ Can you hide from me ? QUICK_EDIT
it is , constructing a tech centre -> selling it straight away BUT keeping all the units that come with the tech centre to build still, wich imo is a serious bug and renders the tech centre technically useless as all the tech costs half the price and the energy the tech centre would need is kept. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
If somebody could make Aftermath MP and TD Cov Ops MP with no added bullshit for OpenRA, it'd be ztyping nice. I LOVE the possibility of TD in massive resolutions with MP.
But no tesla tanks, demo trucks, and oddly placed tiers?
If somebody could make Aftermath MP and TD Cov Ops MP with no added bullshit for OpenRA, it'd be ztyping nice. I LOVE the possibility of TD in massive resolutions with MP.
But no tesla tanks, demo trucks, and oddly placed tiers?
ztype that.
You know, you can easily alter the game with Notepad++.
Regarding MP, it's quite hard for a n00b user to be set up, but otherwise works iirc. QUICK_EDIT
Which is more efficient when you have 15 weapons sharing the same warhead and projectile, as in ANY CNC game, right down to the terribad CNC-4?
That's example 1. The second example is the missing tabulation in the TurretGun weapon entry. Maybe they fixed it, but when I modded, incorrect tabulation caused crashes. And the updates would often necessitate starting the mod over again.
All in all, it's still a great project but their vision of balance is just so wonky and contrary to the spirit of RA (Allied Hinds? bahahahah) and the modding requiring too much dedication to warrant continued usage. At least for me. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
it is , constructing a tech centre -> selling it straight away BUT keeping all the units that come with the tech centre to build still, wich imo is a serious bug and renders the tech centre technically useless as all the tech costs half the price and the energy the tech centre would need is kept.
Tiberian Sun had also this Bug, it worse mostly used on XWIS =/ QUICK_EDIT
i really interest on Open Ra i even plan to make original rts game by using it ai and path finding isn't what i worry about but current game speed [not about performence but gameplay] and unit response rate still make me stay away to play it and lack of info UI. [i dont understand if they want to make UI similar to C&C3 why didn't add ability ui for unit] i take time for while just to find the way to deploy MCV that they change the key to "F"
but what i accept this is the best OS 2d rts engine that someone ever done. QUICK_EDIT
maybe they can integrate TS as Mod (Chisf had written in the IRC-Chat he is not going to... =/ maybe some others make this. Someone has already written an SHP-Reader what can Decode Mix-Files and SHP-File from TS The only thing what is missing... Programmers that writes an tileset-Engine (isometric) and Voxel-Support =/
AFAIK they has also a Mod for Dune 2000 buit the Sandworm seems to be missing =/ maybe he is Drunken or Sleeping... xD
From chrisf himself:
Crushing is supported.
There is no plan to reimplement any bug, including the tech center bug.
We have some aftermath stuff already (msub,shok,ttnk) and are adding more in the next release (dtrk,ctnk).
There is a much better AI in the works.
Harvester AI has already been improved a lot since that post.
For any other questions come and join us on the official OpenRA IRC channel at: irc://chat.freenode.net/openra or goto the homepage of OpenRA at: http://openra.res0l.net/ for links to most related to OpenRA. QUICK_EDIT
Will they ever do a straight up vanilla RA1 mod with no 'balance changes' like heavy tanks needing radar and shit? _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
The developers of OpenRA never intended todo a identical replica of all the C&C1 or RA1 or Dune2K stats and stuff, its up to the users/community of OpenRA todo their own mods with that if they want it.
I have not been browsing the forum for OpenRA much so I dont know if anyone has made a mod to make it behave more like original RA1 or C&C (also I have been away from the OpenRA community for like a year and just came back to it yesterday). I also prefere the original way C&C1 / RA1 plays so dont think you are alone
The game is highly modifiable, not all that is in C&C1 / RA1 can be done like it was in C&C1 or RA1 yet tho, but I am one of those who try to push the devs to make it work more like C&C1/RA1 for the things that dont work or is not friendly to modders. There is quite a number of things that needs fixing regarding this. QUICK_EDIT
Seems like they kind of defeat their goal of creating an open-source version of a game by changing it around... it's just an engine which supports a loosely-RA like mod with a TD and Dune2k component.
Ah, a UMP would be wonderful for this. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
If you care about enemy AI development have a look at https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/2484 which adds some more dynamic reactions to them and does not trigger path finding all the time increasing performance a lot. It won't do any advanced tactics like handling dropship as the Starcraft AI does.
The harvesters have been tuned to harvest efficiently together https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/pull/2241 Their AI only cares about mowing the ore fields fast. They currently have no "avoid enemy territory" or "flee from attacks" subroutines.
Your patches are welcome. Join #openra on FreeNode IRC and fork us at GitHub. QUICK_EDIT
For a dumb person, how does one install these AI buffs? I like OpenRA but... yeah, the AI is lacking, these would be nice to have. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
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OpenRA: A case of successful game engine.
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