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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum » Mapping Discussion
Script action "Follow friendlies"
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject:  Script action "Follow friendlies"
Subject description: a way to create neutral & AI carryall transports
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I always wondered what the script action 10,0 (follow friendlies) actually does, since I've never seen it do anything. By a random coincidence I found out. I had a neutral team with this script action, and I had a unit belonging to house Special on the map. And what do you know, the neutral unit started following the Special owned unit around. If there are no Special owned units on the map, the script action does nothing. It's not just a special case for neutral house to behave this way, I tried the script with a GDI AI player and he followed Special units too.

The really interesting part about this script action is you can make AI pick up units with a carryall and move them somewhere.



You could create a neutral airplane with this (kinda), that could be used to travel around the map. Shame the script does not work on the side's own units, this could have possibly been used to make AI use carryalls for all sorts of sneaky maneuvers.
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now this is interesting... I've wondered how to make non-player owned carryalls pick up a unit for years.

So what exactly does this script look like? Something like this?
0=Move to waypoint... (a waypoint near the Mammoth)
1=Follow friendlies (makes the carryall mount the Mammoth)
2=Move to waypoint... (the waypoint where the mammoth will be carried to)


It's a pity the carryall can't be made to pick up units belonging to the same house this way, or you'd be able to make the AI do do carryall rushes via AI.ini... But maybe you could make allied AIs carry each other's units to the player base for attacks this way?
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah Commander wrote:
Now this is interesting... I've wondered how to make non-player owned carryalls pick up a unit for years.

So what exactly does this script look like? Something like this?
0=Move to waypoint... (a waypoint near the Mammoth)
1=Follow friendlies (makes the carryall mount the Mammoth)
2=Move to waypoint... (the waypoint where the mammoth will be carried to)


Yeah, it's simple as that.

Bittah Commander wrote:

It's a pity the carryall can't be made to pick up units belonging to the same house this way, or you'd be able to make the AI do do carryall rushes via AI.ini... But maybe you could make allied AIs carry each other's units to the player base for attacks this way?


Getting it to work with allied AIs in skirmishes would be hard, how'd you control that they build the carryall and unit at the same time, and meet up at the same location? But for singleplayer, can't you just define GDI1 and GDI2, and control the whole thing with triggers. That is assuming "friendlies" means all allied factions, not just the Special faction. But I'm fairly confident it would work, and allows AI to use carryalls for all sorts of tricks in singleplayer. With proper triggering and scripts you could make them fly a harvester to a tib.field, let it harvest, then ferry it back to the refinery.

Guess you could use it for some neutral stuff in skirmish maps, like at some point ferry a neutral Mk.II to every player's base Razz
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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This script must be a relic from Red Alert, where at least two Soviet missions featured friendly trucks that would stay close to one of your units.
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Morpher
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pretty sure some Mutants in TS levels follow you but you don't control them, same for fiends.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh nice. Now we can even have 4 neutral transports on multiplayer maps
-trains
-apc
-airtransport
and now also carryall vehicle transports

If the carryall is house Special, it should carry any other player on the map.
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would using a Special carryall to transport a player's units from a certain place to another really work properly though?
I mean, the carryall would require a looping script that has 'Follow friendlies' in it, but what would prevent the Carryall from trying to pick up any unit that isn't in the place it's supposed to transport units from? Wouldn't it just fly all the way to a player's base to pick up a unit if there's no friendlies nearby?
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm, if the player following mutants in the campaign really use the same script like Morpher said, then it should work fine. Because in the campaign the following mutants lost contact to you when you were 3-4 cells away from them.
Then you had to turn around, head back to them, so they start following you again.

Based on this, i assume the follow friendlies range is only limited to a few cells around the current location. Thus the carryall should only take a unit next to it, and not try to find one far away from it.

\EDIT
maybe the "follow friendlies" scan distance is even based on the rules.ini key CloseEnough
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah Commander wrote:
Would using a Special carryall to transport a player's units from a certain place to another really work properly though?
I mean, the carryall would require a looping script that has 'Follow friendlies' in it, but what would prevent the Carryall from trying to pick up any unit that isn't in the place it's supposed to transport units from? Wouldn't it just fly all the way to a player's base to pick up a unit if there's no friendlies nearby?


Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

Based on this, i assume the follow friendlies range is only limited to a few cells around the current location. Thus the carryall should only take a unit next to it, and not try to find one far away from it.

\EDIT
maybe the "follow friendlies" scan distance is even based on the rules.ini key CloseEnough



Tried to see if the parameter part of the action has any effect, couldn't notice any change. The carryall in my test flies quite far to pick up the mammoth, and in my GDI test the units walked like half the map to reach the Special owned unit. So I don't think there is any distance limit, it just picks the closest ally to follow. Btw for some reason SOMETIMES the carryall doesn't go and pick up the mammoth, though most of the time it does. Odd.

Anyway, if you wanted to do that neutral carryall, just put in a celltag or waypoint to a "helipad" on the ground. Once you drive a vehicle there, a trigger fires that creates the carryall team with the Follow Friendlies script. You could even have multiple different spots on the ground that take to you different parts of the map, just add some instruction billboard(s) or something to let the player know.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
hmm, if the player following mutants in the campaign really use the same script like Morpher said, then it should work fine. Because in the campaign the following mutants lost contact to you when you were 3-4 cells away from them.
Then you had to turn around, head back to them, so they start following you again.


Which map is this exactly? Could take a look at the team / script WW used to make this happen.
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Team Black
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The tiberian fiend can be found on the GDI "rescue tratos" mission, and the mutants following you can be found in the Nod mission raiding GDI's tiberium research facility (just before the Rescue Oxanna mission)

I've been ACHING for a trigger that could use carryalls... you can bet I'll make good use of it on the next SP map I make #Tongue

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh god, i can't even tell anymore if it's TS or FS, but iirc it's a TS map.
On this map you are Nod, allied to mutants (in the beginning) and have to destroy a GDI base with a big hospital where they find a cure for the tiberium mutations.

When you start in the south, you find yourself in the middle of a small city, where you collect the forgotten from different buildings. They then follow your unit and you have to let them kill the enemies on your way to a tunnel, which you have to free for your arriving mcv.

Once you build your base, you also get a truck convoy, which delivers components for a one time shot chemical or cluster missile.

i think it's something between mission 6 to 10
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Ixonoclast
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
oh god, i can't even tell anymore if it's TS or FS, but iirc it's a TS map.
On this map you are Nod, allied to mutants (in the beginning) and have to destroy a GDI base with a big hospital where they find a cure for the tiberium mutations.

When you start in the south, you find yourself in the middle of a small city, where you collect the forgotten from different buildings. They then follow your unit and you have to let them kill the enemies on your way to a tunnel, which you have to free for your arriving mcv.

Once you build your base, you also get a truck convoy, which delivers components for a one time shot chemical or cluster missile.

i think it's something between mission 6 to 10


TS mission yup. Right about the mission objectives and shit. You're probably right about between which missions it is.

It's after the Scrin ship, but before the whole Hammerfest deal.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's the mission where you destroy a GDI research station at Top-Right corner of the map. You get a single cluster missile if you complete the optional "Escort Toxin Trucks" mission before it. It's the mission that precedes Slavik and Oxanna's escape from GDI treshold.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did quite a bit of testing on this.

1st off, the follow friendlies action needs to be followed by a move to waypoint action. Tried putting actions like guard, or even set local after follow friendlies and the result is always the same: the carryall is stuck landing / taking off above the unit, never able to pick it up. Hell, even putting nothing after follow friendlies action causes the carryall to get stuck doing this. Think I was very lucky to even discover this method in the 1st place.

As far as I can tell, the follow friendlies parameter does nothing. Checked Westwoods use of it, and it's 0 there as well. The Westwood script in all simplicity was

1. follow friendlies
2. guard (2)
3. jump to line 1

Now that works just fine if you want some units to follow an allied unit, but like I said for carryalls it messes things up.

Now the 2nd and very annoying problem. If the allied unit to be picked up is too close (closer than 13 cells) to the carryall, the carryall will simply ignore the follow friendlies action and do whatever is next in the script. Maybe the carryall thinks it's close enough at 12 or less cells and doesn't need to follow. Where this 13 is set I have no idea. Infantry and vehicles seem to follow whatever you have set in CloseEnough (or Stray, not sure).

You can force the carryall to follow the unit by using some other script action after follow friendlies, e.g. guard (1), but like I said every script action I tried here caused the carryall to get stuck. As far as I can tell the following script action NEEDS to be move to waypoint. So if you wanted a flying neutral carryall, the carryall needs to be 13 cells or more away from where the unit it should carry is. It's not even that simple, if there is even a single allied unit closer than 13 to the carryall, it won't go get the next closest allied unit, it will simply think job well done and fly off to the waypoint.

If I moved the bus in this pic 1 cell closer to the carryall it wouldn't pick it up anymore.




EDIT: Dunno if the value 13 is somehow based on the CloseEnough or Stray keys, I have them at CloseEnough=4.5, Stray=4.25. Like maybe it multiplies that with 3 (and ignores the decimal). Tried GuardRange=0 and a few other keys too on the carryall to stop this from happening but no luck.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperJoe wrote:

EDIT: Dunno if the value 13 is somehow based on the CloseEnough or Stray keys, I have them at CloseEnough=4.5, Stray=4.25. Like maybe it multiplies that with 3 (and ignores the decimal). Tried GuardRange=0 and a few other keys too on the carryall to stop this from happening but no luck.


Heh this is exactly what it seems to be. The key that affects the distance is Stray, and for aircraft that gets multiplied by 3 (and the decimal does matter). So for me it was 3 x 4.25 = 12.75, thus the required distance to the carryall was 13.
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Team Black
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still bodes well for a potential singleplayer mission. This is making me pretty excited
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The default value for Stray is only 2.0, so the distance is less of a problem if you haven't changed the key, 3 x 2.0 = 6 cells.

Here's a quick test of a neutral carryall for a map, could make for some interesting logics. The carryall will keep doing pickups for every unit that steps into the center there. Shame about this damn distance issue, if there were other units nearby it might pick them up instead.


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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks really promising. Super Joe.
What happens if an infantry is going to the landing/pick up zone? Since the carryall can't transport it, would this infantry block the carryall and make every other vehicle transport impossible?

I've allowed myself to move it into the mapping forum and to give the title a better description.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
What happens if an infantry is going to the landing/pick up zone? Since the carryall can't transport it, would this infantry block the carryall and make every other vehicle transport impossible?


If you walk an infantry there, the carryall flies next to it, lands, then flies off to where it would normally carry the vehicle. So it won't cause anything to get stuck or mess up things. Basically the infantry just summon the carryall, and the carryall pilot is like damn those kids pranking me again, oh well better finish the run.

EDIT: For some more random fun, create a script that drives a neutral vehicle to that spot. Then you have a Special owned carryall carrying a neutral vehicle. That would look kind of cute.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SuperJoe wrote:
For some more random fun, create a script that drives a neutral vehicle to that spot. Then you have a Special owned carryall carrying a neutral vehicle. That would look kind of cute.

Yep, especially if the vehicle is a Neutral demolition truck which sets when it enters the dropzone a special local variable "Change Carryall script to fly to Player Start location". Twisted Evil
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heh another fun idea would be to periodically send these carryalls to each player's spawn, and then have them randomly steal vehicles and carry them off. Carryall pirates sure are a menace around these parts. Then they'd carry the vehicles to a closed off area and let them fight to death.
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great, another harvester got abducted Mad
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CCHyper
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can someone upload a test map to this topic, I'm interested in this feature...

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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found another way to stick a vehicle onto an AI carryall. Give the carryall Passengers=1, and make a taskforce that has a carryall and a unit. Give the teamtype Full and the unit is now stuck in the carryall when it spawns on the map. But the team has to be spawned from thin air, it won't work if both units already are on the map. This method doesn't require you to have 2 allied factions, but does require the carryall to have Passengers=1. Take your pick. It is still useless for making skirmish AI's use carryalls since the units need to be spawned from thin air.

I got another kinda interesting result by giving the unit to be carried Passengers=1, then made it the first unit in the taskforce. In the script I told the team to load up passengers. What happens is that the carryall attemps to go "into" the unit. It flies into the air, but unfortunately gets stuck doing the same repeating pattern I mentioned in the earlier posts. Was hoping it would trick the carryall to attach itself to the unit. Think it does attempt that but gets stuck in it's place.


CCHyper wrote:
Can someone upload a test map to this topic, I'm interested in this feature...


My test map is full of other tests and tricks so it's too much of a mess. It shouldn't be too hard to recreate this though.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, this certainly makes sense. Wonder if you could make a vehicle that carries a carryall that carries a vehicle.

EDIT: What if you had a vehicle that carried a vehicle that can't be spawned, so when that vehicle unloaded the owner would get money? Another way to do oil derricks maybe? Though not sure how you would go about refilling the "transport".


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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The passenger oil-derrick vehicle having dummy units for money sounds interesting, but i fear there is no way to give a certain player in a MP-map this unit, since there is no way to find out the house a certain player is using.
The only possibility could be a dummy warfactory with the passenger vehicle inside, so once you capture the WF you also get the oil-derrick vehicle.
But then again is the oil-derrick vehicle not capturable anymore.

Refilling the transport isn't necessary if you give it 2147483648 passengers Wink

\EDIT
I just had another idea for a possible really well working oil derrick workaround.
-place a repair bay on the map (this looks like the oil derrick and can be captured by every player)
-spawn a Special unit (so it is allied to everyone and can always repair on the repair bay)
-let the Special unit move onto the repair bay
-sell the Special unit (with a bit luck giving the money the owner of the repair bay and not the Special house)

Then you can control with the spawn delay the rate at which you get money and with the cost of the unit, the amount of money you get when you sell it. Wink

The only difficulty is to get the unit move on the repair bay and then to automatically sell it.
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

I just had another idea for a possible really well working oil derrick workaround.
-place a repair bay on the map (this looks like the oil derrick and can be captured by every player)
-spawn a Special unit (so it is allied to everyone and can always repair on the repair bay)
-let the Special unit move onto the repair bay
-sell the Special unit (with a bit luck giving the money the owner of the repair bay and not the Special house)

Then you can control with the spawn delay the rate at which you get money and with the cost of the unit, the amount of money you get when you sell it. Wink

The only difficulty is to get the unit move on the repair bay and then to automatically sell it.


I tried a few quick experiments with this. Special owned vehicles will automatically walk onto special owned repair bay when they are damaged, and can probably be ordered to walk onto one. However, special owned vehicles do not enter repair bays owned by neutral or the player. Not automatically, and I couldn't get it to happen with scripts either. I tried placing a waypoint directly onto the pad and ordering them to walk there, spawning the vehicle directly on the waypoint, and using any of the Do This... scripts. They just refuse to enter it. If you did manage to get them to enter, I'm still not sure you could sell your allies vehicle, or to make it happen automatically with some script or trigger. But the 1st problem would be to make the special owned vehicles enter the repairbay, and I haven't found a way to do it.

One thing I noticed when experimenting with this is if you have special owned repairbays on the map, any player can use them to repair his vehicles. You pay the cost of the repairs though. Kind of interesting as a civilian bonus structure that you could use in multiplayer maps.
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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just try sending one of your own vehicles onto a Special owned service depot and then selling it... I predict that you'll then still receive the money from selling it, which means that if a special vehicle would move onto a service depot owned by you and then sell itself, it would then also go to whoever that vehicle belonged to (being the special house in this case).
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SuperJoe
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bittah Commander wrote:
Just try sending one of your own vehicles onto a Special owned service depot and then selling it... I predict that you'll then still receive the money from selling it, which means that if a special vehicle would move onto a service depot owned by you and then sell itself, it would then also go to whoever that vehicle belonged to (being the special house in this case).


Yes, the owner of the vehicle gets the money, not the owner of the repairbay. So this method would not work even if you managed to somehow force the special vehicle onto the repairbay.

But as for that special neutral structure for multiplayer maps, you could use this as a bonus structure where you could sell your vehicles. Like maybe the Forgotten would be willing to buy vehicles from you that you no longer need (or you simply need some quick cash). Is there a way to remove the repairing effect from the repairbay, so the vehicle ordered onto the bay would simply sit there and wait to be sold? Could probably adjust the RepairRate= or RepairStep= keys, but that would screw up the GDI repairbay as well. Oh well, maybe the Forgotten are nice enough to repair your vehicles for a price, or buy them off from you for 50% of the cost Razz
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, i didn't tested this. It was just an idea. Too bad it doesn't works.
btw, a Special refinery is interesting too, because you can order your harvester to unload there instead.
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Team Black
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Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you can order it to allied refineries, but it won't really unload there.
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Holland
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Joined: 31 May 2017

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CloseEnough=
Stray=
Ive never seen these tags nor find them in rules.ini... do they work? What are they exactly?

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McPwny
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Joined: 29 Jan 2018

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i used that tag a lot in mod mapping, it means that when you order a team to go to a waypoint, the team members will
accept 'closeenough' distance from the waypoint as having been at the waypoint before going to the next script action. if
your team is too big, or closeenough is too small, then the team will get stuck as its units try and occupy cell(s) already
occupied by other members of the same team.

stray= has to do with automatically regrouping when the units get seperated.
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Holland
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Joined: 31 May 2017

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

McPwny wrote:
i used that tag a lot in mod mapping, it means that when you order a team to go to a waypoint, the team members will
accept 'closeenough' distance from the waypoint as having been at the waypoint before going to the next script action. if
your team is too big, or closeenough is too small, then the team will get stuck as its units try and occupy cell(s) already
occupied by other members of the same team.

stray= has to do with automatically regrouping when the units get seperated.


My god i wish i knew that earlier lmao

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