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Generals2 mechanics from the last C&C Community Summit
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject:  Generals2 mechanics from the last C&C Community Summit
Subject description: 'You must construct additional pylons!'
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It's a new year and I guess that the non-disclosement agreement that some of the lucky creatures who were invited by EA last year to play the newest Command & Conquer Free To Play has expired or it is close to expire. At least, there are german sites revealing some gameplay information.

And it looks like that Starcraft 2 is being a strong source of inspiration for the 'Generals 2' module of the game, which is not really a surprise. So, what has been revealed is:

- Dozers are back and buildings will be constructed in a similar faction as seen in Generals 1. You can build anywhere.
- Credits is the first resource and Oil is the second one. Oil would work in a similar fashion as the Vespene Gas in Starcraft. They'll be required for high tech units.
- Power plants will only power up buildings in the close vicinity.
- Players will be able to pause matches and re-enter later.
- The developpers are planning a skirmish mode. You'll be able to play against AI, which should be challenging, according to them.

As seen in the video, there are 3 factions and you can see their logos at the video. The article does not reveal the name of the asian faction.






Anyway, I don't know german and my comprehension of the article is limited by Google's translation, which is not exactly reliable, but it's better than nothing.

Last edited by Banshee on Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to the roots... and saying it's exactly like Generals?

dafuq are these guys, they all are morons then. Generals had nowhere near C&C gameplay.
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Regulus
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CnC died in 2000.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you others who claim RA2 was not a C&C can also go into hell. It was IMO the best thing ever got done under that banner.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regulus wrote:
CnC died in 2000.

I am beginning to get really fed up with this quote Rolling Eyes

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Volgin
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, question to all ya'll, what the hell is 'traditional C&C gameplay"? Not mechanics, GAMEPLAY. The game isn't a tiberium harvester sim, so that isn't gameplay. Is it tank rushes?

'Cause if it is, C&C has been pretty ztyping consistent.
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Martin Killer
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good things, especially dozers and second resource.

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blubb
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the starcraft eco model is vastly superior to the old command & conquer model, some aspects are simply better and should have been implemented long ago. CnC is much too simple in that regard, and even beginners have a chance to grasp this one perfectly fine.
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EVA-251
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blubb wrote:
the starcraft eco model is vastly superior to the old command & conquer model, some aspects are simply better and should have been implemented long ago. CnC is much too simple in that regard, and even beginners have a chance to grasp this one perfectly fine.
I'd agree in most aspects, but I don't like what it does to map design.

Every map that I played in SC2 seemed to follow the exact same formula.

You got the same starting resource set-up across every map. Same distance from the starting command center, same number of geysers and mineral piles. Then equidistant expansion areas for every player, followed by contested areas that are closer to half way through the map. Only difference is the number of the expansion areas and their distances from the starting points.
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OmegaBolt
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the SC2 map set really sucks, but if there are still "refineries" to harvest resources instead of the command center then they shouldn't be as limited in design. We still don't know how SC this is really gonna turn out to be anyway so...
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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Banshee you got the translated article right. I speak german and that sums it up quite well.

oh and... FIRST.
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Holy_Master
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like SC2 but i agree with map. i dunno if they can't balance all faction without placing ram on front of the base on every map. however it's just small issue i still enjoy the game.

and about new c&c for me it's seem interesting enough at lease seem like they make game play base on G1 formula even it's not base on classic c&c system but c'mon maybe this will be the last old school RTS the will ever release on this planet before completely die to real time tactics like COH or Dawn of War or MOBA like LOL,HON.

3 faction , General game play , Free to play with skirmish mode online isn't it good? only game quality should be worry about.

about faction from the flag i think, it will be China faction just like in G1 since i don't think any Asian use Red flag and star other than china plus symbol in the center seem Asian enough to doesn't look like Russia.

but event this faction not china but china will be center of them for sure. :p

when i saw game play. some part remind me "Rise of the red" mod on G1

Last edited by Holy_Master on Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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^Rampastein
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blubb wrote:
the starcraft eco model is vastly superior to the old command & conquer model, some aspects are simply better and should have been implemented long ago

I'd say that it's different, not really that superior. Being able to manage your economy well often isn't as easy in classic C&C as people make it seem; usually it just means that they're not playing against opponents who are experienced enough.

Quote:
Going back to the roots... and saying it's exactly like Generals?

dafuq are these guys, they all are morons then. Generals had nowhere near C&C gameplay.

Yeah, really seems like they either don't know what C&Cs roots really are and/or it was just the usual marketing nonsense.

I'm pretty certain that there'll be only symmetrical maps in this new C&C considering that's how it was in C&C3 (and IIRC it wasn't much different in RA3 and C&C4 either, although I haven't played those). Asymmetrical maps have been rare in RTSs (well, actually RTSs itself are rare nowadays) for a longer while and I doubt they'd take a step brave enough to do a lot of asymmetrical maps like WW did, especially when they're aiming to create an actual, entirely balanced e-Sports game this time.

It can still be a fun game however, so I'll keep watching it although I doubt it can drain my interest from LoL for long (which I play when I want something actually competitive).
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blubb
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'd like a chunk of both, symmetrical maps are simply the better choice for online gaming for a shitload of reasons, while asymetrical maps can make skirmish interresting
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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flags...

IIRC Zero Hour Ending makes mention of China forming the Eurasian League or something. (An Asian Soviets of some sorts I guess) and USA is ousted.

and I guess United Nations is the replacement I guess.

Overall I'm guessing they wanted each Faction to at least be less of a "HI OUR COUNTRY IS NUMBAH ONE" to just a conglomeration of united countries to help provide ambiguity for each side.

If I ever saw a balance between the Generals Economy vs C&C Economy the sides should have and made somewhat equivalents to Generals-verse...


Silos -> Storage Center - Limiting your amount of Cash depending on how many you have.
Ore Drill/Tiberium Trees - Supply Cache, Which when emptied out would probably give out very small amounts (Akin to RA3's exhausted Ore Mine)
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pd
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked Generals a lot, and it's the only 3D RTS I ever liked, it did everything right. The game itself, gameplay-wise, I liked a lot better than TS. Story-wise, yeah, it's the "alien" in the franchise, but it did a good job nonetheless. It certainly gave a totally different feel, and I like it if that happens. The only problem with Generals were massive performance problems even on high-end hardware.

With every follow-up 3D RTS, I had extreme visual problems so far, not related to hardware. The games make it impossible to keep track of what's going on. RA3 is my favorite example for this, personally. It's simply not playable for me. I hope they can somehow fix that.

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Martin Killer
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
- Dozers are back and buildings will be constructed in a similar faction as seen in Generals 1. You can build anywhere.


Great, prevents from instant popup building spam, that became extremely annoying in C&C 3, thus EA decided to make building system in RA3 different for all factions.

Quote:
- Credits is the first resource and Oil is the second one. Oil would work in a similar fashion as the Vespene Gas in Starcraft. They'll be required for high tech units.


Great, more diversity. With good balance of units, turtlers/campers wouldn't stand long if Oil is needed for high tech units. Of course, only when Oil isn't near your starting point.

Quote:
- Power plants will only power up buildings in the close vicinity.


Not sure, but if someone had tons of power plants in one place you were able to destroy it with one hit by superweapon. Maybe it could prevent from fast building a defensive heavy tech outposts (what was a pain in C&C3 with chaining Sonic Towers)

Quote:
- Players will be able to pause matches and re-enter later.

Ahhh, SC1 thingie... 2 pauses per player for a multiplayer game, sometimes it might be abusing.

Quote:
- The developpers are planning a skirmish mode. You'll be able to play against AI, which should be challenging, according to them.

Skirmish is a must have.

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Brotherhood of GOD
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand fans that say that C&C is alive, Generals are cool and etc. Nope, dudes, C&C has died alongside Westwood. Really, dudes, who are you? What kind of fans are you? What do you prefer? Old C&C or EA's moneysacks? I thought this site is about C&C. Yeah, Generals might be a pretty good strategy but it's not C&C at all. EA could release a game called just "Generals" but no, they called it C&C. They just sucking out money from Westwood's rotting body. When I bought collector's edition of TibWars and played it, I said to myself - "Wtf? That's totally bullshit!". But when RA3 and TibTwilight were released, I realized that TibWars was a masterpiece. So don't expect much from Generals 2. I will never forgive EA for what they did. C&C have always been my favourite game. I don't even know how to finish this. Ok, I'll just say this - EA sux, Generals sux, TibWars sux, Twilight sux, RA3 sux, TibAlliances sux, everything sux, my life sux and I wanna bigger d**k.
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CCHyper
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why...
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freedom fighter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The developpers are planning a skirmish mode. You'll be able to play against AI, which should be challenging, according to them.


FAITH RESTORED!!

Regulus wrote:
CnC died in 2000.


And the dinosaurs are extinct if you haven't noticed...
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noki
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brotherhood of GOD wrote:
I don't understand fans that say that C&C is alive, Generals are cool and etc. Nope, dudes, C&C has died alongside Westwood. Really, dudes, who are you? What kind of fans are you? What do you prefer? Old C&C or EA's moneysacks? I thought this site is about C&C. Yeah, Generals might be a pretty good strategy but it's not C&C at all. EA could release a game called just "Generals" but no, they called it C&C. They just sucking out money from Westwood's rotting body. When I bought collector's edition of TibWars and played it, I said to myself - "Wtf? That's totally bullshit!". But when RA3 and TibTwilight were released, I realized that TibWars was a masterpiece. So don't expect much from Generals 2. I will never forgive EA for what they did. C&C have always been my favourite game. I don't even know how to finish this. Ok, I'll just say this - EA sux, Generals sux, TibWars sux, Twilight sux, RA3 sux, TibAlliances sux, everything sux, my life sux and I wanna bigger d**k.


Not sure if trolling or just stupid

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Martin Killer
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Face it, classic C&C mechanic is outdated and can't challenge RTS mechanics from games like Starcraft 2 or even Warhammer 40k DoW. Last resurrections like TibWars or RA3 were abusive in terms of mechanics (instant spamming T3 turrets through whole map, cash flow), it's impossible to evolve MCV/popup system even more. I could stand a C&C game without A/B class movie stars, tbh I would even be happier if they didn't spend any money on FMVs instead of game design or engine. If you want a classic C&C, go back to 90s/2000 but don't release such a game in 2013 with outdated mechanics.

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, come on. Mechanics never gets outdated. In fact, the mechanics are what keeps the game (X-Com, Settlers).

Maybe it's impossible to evolve MCV/popup system, but there was never needed for an evolution neither. The stuff EA aimed for was actually ok in KW (except the turretthingie) but regardless that was a cool iteration of a modern C&C game.

Second resources and all those stuff are not related to C&C at all and it will just end up losing the worthb to be called as C&C. And after that it'll be just a single RTS among the many.

Just because Starcraft became success people should not mimic it, even sacrificing C&C designs.

So yeah...
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Get that Starcrap outta my C&C!

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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd keep the way how resources are gained in C&C3 at least.

Silos
"Oil Derricks"
"Tiberium Trees"

Power Zones seemed like a decent idea i guess. (Reminds me of Protoss Pylons) forces players to spread out their power buildings more I guess to have more build space.
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Brotherhood of GOD
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noki wrote:
Brotherhood of GOD wrote:
I don't understand fans that say that C&C is alive, Generals are cool and etc. Nope, dudes, C&C has died alongside Westwood. Really, dudes, who are you? What kind of fans are you? What do you prefer? Old C&C or EA's moneysacks? I thought this site is about C&C. Yeah, Generals might be a pretty good strategy but it's not C&C at all. EA could release a game called just "Generals" but no, they called it C&C. They just sucking out money from Westwood's rotting body. When I bought collector's edition of TibWars and played it, I said to myself - "Wtf? That's totally bullshit!". But when RA3 and TibTwilight were released, I realized that TibWars was a masterpiece. So don't expect much from Generals 2. I will never forgive EA for what they did. C&C have always been my favourite game. I don't even know how to finish this. Ok, I'll just say this - EA sux, Generals sux, TibWars sux, Twilight sux, RA3 sux, TibAlliances sux, everything sux, my life sux and I wanna bigger d**k.


Not sure if trolling or just stupid

Both.
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Volgin
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yay shitbus
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Martin Killer
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Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as long Sam Bass isn't involved in this game, I'm not mad. C&C4 under his direction was the worst piece of crap in term of popular RTS games in last years.
Edit: Oh no, he does work in Bioware.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Second resources and all those stuff are not related to C&C at all and it will just end up losing the worthb to be called as C&C. And after that it'll be just a single RTS among the many.

Agreed. Starcraft mechanics surely work, but it's not like the classic C&C mechanics were somehow really broken. Now the "C&C" part doesn't really mean anything nor tell anything about the game itself, instead it's just yet another RTS. I guess that Starcraft players/fans will stick to Starcraft anyway if Generals 2 has similar mechanics; it doesn't really offer anything that much different to them.
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Banshee
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam Bass is directly involved in this project, Martin Killer.

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