Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject:
Why Red Orboros failed epically
Subject description: A full, detailed admission of our failings.
I guess nobody expected this again...but the truth is, it's been difficult enough to let go, despite wanting to allow it to die. I mean that literally - the whole affair I consider nothing more than an embarrassment. How embarrassing?
I pawned off my entire C&C collection, and even pretty much destroying my ModDB account (since I couldn't disable/delete it). Almost everything, except for the original big box copies of Tiberian Sun and Firestorm and C&C 3 and Kane's Wrath (more because I forgot to gather them up as well over them being worthless or because the former is freeware). Otherwise, if it was a C&C game, it was gone.
As it should be reminded, this is the franchise that introduced me to gaming in general as "my first video game". Dead serious.
Regardless, here now is a full admission of why it failed from our perspective, and debunking other reasons. Given some things I read, this will likely be dismissed as me lying to you, or sweet talking or dismissing blame.
I am not one for mincing words, or shifting blame onto areas that didn't end up resulting in scenarioes, even if the fault is my own.
Oh, and before we begin - if anyone thinks I've posted this in the wrong section (and I wasn't sure exactly where it should go), feel free to either move, or remove the thread and ban us. It wouldn't surprise me if either happened.
Narcissism
Half true.
This one's going to cover a lot of broad ground, but there's some things I should admit beforehand. Everyone's narcissistic on some level, whether they want to admit it or not, and a true narcissist would never admit to it.
Our narcissism in hindsight was probably the biggest killer.
Thinking back most dialog passed from others during the early days of development, and I'm reminded of the "John Romero will make you his <CENSORED>" ad campaign for Daikatana - perhaps an appropriate comparison. That being said, some of the above is somewhat unjustified - mainly around the issues of criticism and voxels.
With criticism, the only area I stopped taking criticism in was Graphical - when all of your models are public use assets, there's not a whole lot you can do about them. For those who say I never bothered with them myself, this thread here was the end result. It got more comments than anything else RO related in it's lifetime, I wouldn't say the community wasn't unhelpful. It ultimately just wasn't fun and measured up more and more as a tedious, laborious chore than anything else, and if anything anything I could make wouldn't measure up to anyone's standards, let alone my own.
However, perhaps asking for someone who was good with Voxels (or to use the words spoken, a "Dedicated Voxel Artist") was being far too optimistic for our own good. In fact, it had reached the point where behind the scenes, I was considering paying someone (something I'm pretty sure Mental Omega doesn't do) to design something probably says a lot about the state we had gotten ourselves into.
Moving from that side tangent however, it was the only thing people really brought up, if that. Smart arse, one sentence comments like "Move TurretOffset = to..." were not overtly positive or encouraging we admit (especially when it's not what we're looking for), and ultimately lead to ignoring anything that tied back to graphics. However, everything else that I really wanted to know - was the story any good, does this sound like a good idea/worthwhile replacement, perhaps balance debates even - was all up for discussion, and I was more than happy to talk about that, especially since we knew we were going to fail so hard at graphics. To wit, I did pick up the conversation with Mr Dilach when he wanted to talk to me privately (which I'm certain a lot of people saw, given I got public comments AND PM's about it), towards the end of the downwards spiral things were going down. While I'm pretty sure I can't discuss what the conversations were about unless he's comfortable with it, I can tell you I did listen...even if what was spoken did indeed make me feel absolutely miserable, I did listen and tried to interpret his feedback as best as I could.
And no, I don't hate Dilach, I can see what he was trying to do, to a degree.
On a related note, we also did some (admittedly terrible) Voice Acting for Noodles when he asked for it. I am not sure if he's keeping the clips around or not (And I wouldn't blame him with everything if he got rid of them), but I'm pretty sure a true narcissist wouldn't even stoop to help out a fellow modder in need if he had the capacity to do so, even if I was tired and exhausted during the recording sessions.
The fact that those kinds of comments were so rare, or worse never happened lead to a brewed form of insanity - I was under the impression nobody even cared. Call it attention whoring if you like, but on a general scale, more comments and discussion generally meant I was doing my job right, even if I was shooting myself in the foot. Lack of comments generally suggested nobody cared.
And no, don't mention SHP's. You probably wouldn't want to know what happened that one time I studied flash in College.
I could go on about how Narcissism wreaked our odds in so many ways (and probably mismash or obscure the point further), but I think it's time we changed to another aspect.
Trying to please everyone
Tying in to a lot of the above, this was something I picked up upon. And it's probably true now that I think about it - trying too hard to please people. Heck, just look at whatever posts I made outside of the modding circles, all desperate attempts to fit in and contribute that fell drastically short (and many which are just plain embarrassing or shameful respectively) and were loaded with so much fail.
But back to point - a lot of the above problems, from narcissism issues to our terrible attempts at hand drawn voxels all draw back to this issue. Heck, the lack of a lot of commentary suggested we weren't doing our job properly, and served as the pushing force from one insane stunt to the next.
I would however probably boil it down again into "trying to please the fans" in some areas, which only lead to disaster.
Moving on however, we have...
Aspergers Syndrome
And this is probably going to be the most difficult one to justify.
For those just tuning in, Aspergers Syndrome is a mental condition recently reclassified as part of the Autistic spectrum at time of writing, that affects how a person interacts with others, from simple delays to speaking problems and even greater amounts of sensitivity and empathy. However, on the internet it's become a first rate defense of trolls, making discussing the subject difficult, and in some circles it's a form of Godwin's Law to claim it.
Unlike most people though, I can claim to have it, medical records and all.
I'm not sure how well it bled though the writing, but a lot of people's reactions quite often tie back to the above. I however never mentioned it or tried to bring attention to it during development because I didn't want any special treatment, or on the inverse bring in a horde of trolls who are there solely to "lol, autistic!". However, between our terrible attempts to fit in and the average community member reaction to us, it wouldn't surprise me if people figured out there was something wrong with us before I came out and admitted I have the condition.
Normally, for much of the above reasons I don't like using it as a defense, as it feels like I'm deflecting blame instead of admitting one of my own failings. However, I do feel it is (at least partially) responsible for a number of incidents around RO and even around PPM (including many an embarrassing error, from social to business to even maybe this thread.)
Moving on, we have...
Mental Omega
Okay, as sick as people are, this one had to be addressed. Not so much anything the team did (which was basically nothing - in fact, a couple of members were even somewhat supportive during development), more as it is the constant competition (or feeling of as the case may be).
Why Mental Omega specifically? Unless I'm mistaken, it's the mod for Yuri's Revenge right now, especially with 3.0 headed around the corner. It was the first to use tools like Ares and AttachEffect, and has a massive following.
You can probably see how and why the feeling of competition was there.
Tying into previous and future subjects (or excuses as the perception may be), a lot of plans that were still on the drawing board amounted to one thing - "How can we stand out?". A good mod will have something that makes it stand out, that makes people want to download and play it. With us, we wanted mechanics to be the focus of that, and arguably paid for it.
Tying back into the subject of Narcissism, every time MO updated a new feature, it related to something that was still very much on the drawing board and thus unannounced. The thinking at the time was that this only amounted to perceptions of RO being a "poor man's MO". When we started out, we wanted to do things differently, but over time things steadily got merged closer and closer together, to the point where RO started to look like a "Follow the Leader" to MO, and thus a rip-off.
As hard as you try, there's just no ignoring something like that.
Rolling on, there's also...
Didn't try to please people enough
This one's on here mainly to debunk it...but it's probably also true as well.
Where I debunk it is some people trying to make me out to be some sort of self-centered egocentric who didn't listen to others. This is probably not helped due to the last thread that would ever be posted - I may not have said it, but I felt too terrified or even intimidated to go back and even write something as simple as "I'm sorry". Even this is being done though shaking bones and feelings of fear and unease. Of course, people's reactions only alluded to the above being true. However as said earlier, there wasn't much beyond graphical feedback to feed back too in the first place, and that probably wasn't going to get fixed any time soon, outside of doing some very minor adjustments to already existing graphics, many not shown.
The removal of threads without prior warning however, we will admit was a complete dick move on our half, but not without reasons - every time I make a big post on "I'm leaving" or the like, not only does it have all sorts of negative attachments to how I look as a person (nomorso than the entire downward spiral, we'll admit), the typical response is "please don't leave."
And being the emotional sod that I am, it usually worked.
As it was, I was so angry, upset and frustrated that I simply didn't want to risk it at the time, so everything went down. More recent takedowns however have been to simply allow something nobody cared for to die really. Not saying my reasons are justified, but those were my reasons.
Either way you look at it, there was no hope for meeting some people's very real or imagined demands.
But ultimately, all of this added up to...
It became a chore
This is another reason, though it being the smallest reason goes here. Ultimately, all of the above - from people's perceptions to failing to grasp how public modding worked (which at the time we were admittedly looking at Mods like Mental Omega, Red Alter and other high quality mods with large teams) to struggling and failing against real or imagined demands...it just stopped being fun.
It no longer felt like a little hobby I did when I felt like doing it. It became more...commercial, for lack of better words. It felt more like an actual job, which is probably a bad thing for a part time activity to do.
And there it is. The reasons I think everything fell apart. Maybe I'm being unfair on myself, or maybe I am deflecting the blame too much onto others. However, these are the reasons it collapsed in our eyes. If you have something not here, it's likely that it's something that I haven't seen, thought of or even considered before mentioning - or just plain forgot about it.
This probably doesn't even sound like an actual apology. On one hand, it's a bit late for apologies somewhere around three to four months later. On the other hand, the fact that we're actually losing sleep (among other problems) over this probably says something else, or even provide a clue.
If not, I'll say it upfront - this Mod is now an old shame, I regret ever going public with it, and I deeply regret any negative interactions I may or may not have had with the community at large.
Whether that notice, or any of the above reasons and statements are true or hollow is - as it has always been - up for you to decide. I'm not asking for second chances or redemption, but I felt only now after everyone is getting into new year spirit and a good three to four months after the fires went out would be the best time to admit to our failures and own up to them.
I know nobody here misses us, so it's very likely I'm not going to come back or restart the mod. I just felt everyone had a right to know how we saw things, as narcissistic as that probably sounds. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:49 pm Post subject:
Crap, I should've known that you considered my words on the exact opposite on what I meant.
I won't write as such long as you have done... but I tell you that in most cases I can understand your struggle deeper than you mean. I think we have talked about that already.
Regarding your work in Red Orboros... I couldn't seen Red Orboros in the long run, but what I could have seen was interesting and could been worthy for a public release. The first one could have been a public beta with placeholder art and it could have been better after that.
Regarding the VA in CW, I have heard Albatross, and I liked that one. IMO I have much worse results already from my friends which I don't want to throw out because I don't have capacity for that.
I ignore the stuff on Asperger, I also have it, I know how that works, and I have some friends who are also autists. One of them has a good band AFAIK.
Also, ignore Mental Omega. If you do it differently, your mod will not be considered as a MO ripoff. Look at all the other usual YR mods; Red Resurrection, Red Alert X, current Colony Wars, YR Squared, even my AS is that in a degree... yes, MO is widespread, but that doesn't mean you should have taken MO that seriously.
And to hell with that AE stuff, I know it was a bad decision.
In case of MO, the sole thing which made it famous IMO was the fact that back in 2005, it had new campaigns. That's all. Not because of balance in 2.0 or the strategy depth it brought, but the fact that it had campaigns.
Don't even try to please everybody. The good mod leader does not try to please everybody, but blindly follows his own vision, others might stay, might not. He shall only listen to the criticism, but does not to willingly apply all of them. There is always the "it's a feature, not a bug" POV as well.
Yes, I know I told you, I'll aid you but soon after that, you haven't bugged me with anything and I thought everything was OK. You know, Jem (if someone, you could have talked with him about this, since your mods are around the same age) bugs us in the renproj channel in the first moment he stuck with something, shows us WIP previews and so on and so on... and that's how he encourages me to continue AS actually. Because yes, I know that narcissism and I feel that I overmade my mod, it's too huge to ever get done.
But slowly and steadily, with listening Jem's stuff I always find inspiration to carry on somehow.
IMO where you made it wrong, was that the fact that you didn't talked about your concerns with anyone. I tried to talk about it but it seems that while I thought I encouraged you, it backfired. I like helping mods, and I think Jem can tell you that as long as I feel respected it's ok.
So yes, Shockwave, I think you could have made Red Orboros a cool mod. You still have a chance. Yes, you made a small mistake that you always considered as an outsider in the community. Yes, you made another mistake that you overexaggerated yourself on doubts you shouldn't have cared about. (Mental Omega mostly)
You made a good decision when stepping into the community. You made a good decision by trying to fit into it somehow. You made a good decision when you got somewhere with your project.
But you made a bad decision when you let everything fall down upon you.
I know I'm pretty bad in helping terms mostly, but heck, I would even try helping you in RO if you retry. With voxel edits, or simply encouraging... I'll see.
TL;DR: I told you you shouldn't worry about the reaction on RO. You did. But heck I still support you even after you have gave up. Try to restart and I aid to not fell apart next time, ok? _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Lol, well there was a time when I tried to avoid things MO did (it did become the YR juggernaut around the time I was modding most) but over the last few years I really couldn't care less. Wish I'd stopped caring earlier since it dried up my interest. MO borrowed a lot of ideas from other games and mods and so do I, in the end it's the unique combination of different ideas (nevertheless with some similarities) that makes a good mod. You can't be totally different, we're all using the same game and from the same modding community. Just try entertain yourself and others will follow. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Oh, and before we begin - if anyone thinks I've posted this in the wrong section (and I wasn't sure exactly where it should go), feel free to either move, or remove the thread and ban us. It wouldn't surprise me if either happened.
Considering that Red Orboros is not a mod anymore, Public Mod Announcements is not the ideal position for this topic. I've moved it to PPM Discussion Zone.
Btw, the Red Orboros forums were deleted. I hate when people clean up mod forums. They should keep posts for future reference or inspiration.
I'll post a complete comment on this topic later. (Text is too big and I'm lazy right now)
Its still in my PC gathering dust. I haven't had the time to implement my VTOL IFV since well... i've been lazy.
Speeder keeps dissing me about some similarities but I just bear with it most of the time.
More often I'm trying to please the aesthetic crowd so i'm often taking forever to finish stuff.
OmegaBolt wrote:
Lol, well there was a time when I tried to avoid things MO did (it did become the YR juggernaut around the time I was modding most) but over the last few years I really couldn't care less. Wish I'd stopped caring earlier since it dried up my interest. MO borrowed a lot of ideas from other games and mods and so do I, in the end it's the unique combination of different ideas (nevertheless with some similarities) that makes a good mod. You can't be totally different, we're all using the same game and from the same modding community. Just try entertain yourself and others will follow.
Well, I tried and...I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound like a complete jerk or anything. Heck, for most of it's production I took it on like many other mods I've seen - one guy did the models, another textured, another animated, etc, etc.
Banshee wrote:
Considering that Red Orboros is not a mod anymore, Public Mod Announcements is not the ideal position for this topic. I've moved it to PPM Discussion Zone.
I was wondering where this would go. Our apologies.
Banshee wrote:
Btw, the Red Orboros forums were deleted. I hate when people clean up mod forums. They should keep posts for future reference or inspiration.
As mentioned in the above, I did put up why things were taken down. Again, our apologies.
For starters, this doesn't seem so bad. Guess I'm having an anxiety attack over nothing, right? QUICK_EDIT
I don't know what this fixation with a "team" is. MO is the only YR mod with a team and it wasn't always that way. Fewer mods get friends to make a few necessary assets which don't exist in the public domain, the rest use freely available assets with basic modifications and consist of one coder who does what he can. Most mods (C&C anyway) work that way. QUICK_EDIT
I don't know what this fixation with a "team" is. MO is the only YR mod with a team and it wasn't always that way. Fewer mods get friends to make a few necessary assets which don't exist in the public domain, the rest use freely available assets with basic modifications and consist of one coder who does what he can. Most mods (C&C anyway) work that way.
Growing up, a lot of other mods had teams too - I'm probably the only person here who remembers "Allies Revenge 2" if that's the case. Also, there's other non-RA2 mods that have teams, such as Paradox. It seemed like the best way to get the work done at the time, especially considering plans on the paper. QUICK_EDIT
Well yes AR2 had a team, but IIRC that never really got finished even if it was released and isn't in development now. The amount of "teams" hasn't changed IMO, modding was still very much a one man show. QUICK_EDIT
Well yes AR2 had a team, but IIRC that never really got finished even if it was released and isn't in development now. The amount of "teams" hasn't changed IMO, modding was still very much a one man show.
Same with 2021: Cataclysm and all the rest of it. Same time though, there were some tasks better suited to delegating to others - like Voxelling and SHP Animation, the latter we didn't have a hell in chance of doing and the former was discussed slightly in depth in the above. We were at beg, borrow and steal for most of it, especially given the one faction we never spoke of at all.
And asking for favours usually leaves some kind of debt. As a quickie example, say I asked Noodles to design a Voxel based tank. What would I have offered to be of much help in return? I'm not a man who likes being in debt, we get enough of that with the bills. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject:
Voicing, hah. You did it once, you can do it more times. Especially now that Jem has a voicesheet too.
You're still looking it wrong. It's not begging and not stealing if you reuse a public asset (or TS/RA2 assets in the other game). I have two additional factions I never really speak of... one uses the released Paradox-set with some nonParadox stuff (and I have no idea right now how to make those fit at all) and the other uses TS's. And I accept the fact that they'll look wonky there because I can't have better.
Still I respect Merophage for making Paradox set because without it, I'd be in even bigger trouble than I am right now.
As long as you respect the assets you can find and figure out a use for them, and making a complete mod based upon them, you're all OK.
Take a look on Project Phantom. The buildings it uses are Future Crisis's mostly, since Gamemate allows anyone to reuse any asset of that m,od now that he's gone. And Starkku did the rest by himself, by modding public assets.
Shockwave, I know you're even more pessimist than me and I know that's the easy solution. But FFS, try to think outside of the box with what you have. If you have cared about Red Orboros at all, then you wouldn't fighting so much against yourself.
Don't bother about the failed project's past and search for reasons within their history why they failed to use those as defense... instead use those finding on your advance.
You can go slowly and steadily as well. Noone expect you to be a voxel factory like Jem, or to be an animation god like Apollo. Look at Red Alert X. FurryQueen can only code, he's not an artist neither. Yet he's still here,and still running a mod where nothing is his creation, except the coding.
Do anyone cares about it? Not really because we understand he's more into coding than art. And this same applies to my mod too. I know graphically it'll suck. Buit I also know that I want to get it done and I just don't care about the graphics. I hjhave better stuff to do than caring about that afterall. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Voicing, hah. You did it once, you can do it more times. Especially now that Jem has a voicesheet too.
Not sure how to read it, but yes - possibly. I was however using an example where Noodles was mentioned. Though we don't exactly have a great range of vocals.
Also, Jem?
Graion Dilach wrote:
You're still looking it wrong. It's not begging and not stealing if you reuse a public asset (or TS/RA2 assets in the other game). I have two additional factions I never really speak of... one uses the released Paradox-set with some nonParadox stuff (and I have no idea right now how to make those fit at all) and the other uses TS's. And I accept the fact that they'll look wonky there because I can't have better.
Still I respect Merophage for making Paradox set because without it, I'd be in even bigger trouble than I am right now.
As long as you respect the assets you can find and figure out a use for them, and making a complete mod based upon them, you're all OK.
When I said "beg, borrow and steal", I was referring to asking someone to do us a Graphic for the Project more than anything else.
Graion Dilach wrote:
Don't bother about the failed project's past and search for reasons within their history why they failed to use those as defense... instead use those finding on your advance.
Now I never said I was using them as a defense. Nor was I intentionally using them as an attack, that's words being inserted into mouth. What the first post was - and still is - is an explanation. Perhaps not a good or well worded explanation, but an explanation nethertheless.
I was never one for making excuses when something fails, especially and even if some or all of the failure lies on my shoulders.
Graion Dilach wrote:
You can go slowly and steadily as well. Noone expect you to be a voxel factory like Jem, or to be an animation god like Apollo. Look at Red Alert X. FurryQueen can only code, he's not an artist neither. Yet he's still here,and still running a mod where nothing is his creation, except the coding.
Do anyone cares about it? Not really because we understand he's more into coding than art.
Yet it was never that way with RO. This is the primary reason I started ignoring anything related to graphics. I think the majority of feedback I got was all graphical, ranging from the use of dated voxels to TurretOffset needing to be shifted. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject:
Yep, JeremiahLoh was the username I've met him. And he uses that nick on FreedomStudios and on ModDB.
TurretOffset is a coding thing actually, being as art.ini tag.
Either way, I'm still willing to offer my aid IF you willing to carry on. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Either way, I'm still willing to offer my aid IF you willing to carry on.
Right now, that is a big IF, and I will definitely take that under consideration...especially considering I pawned off the disks. Unless they made RA2/YR freeware during our absence, I'm going to need to find some new disks first.
If I do make a full come back instead of a list of explanations (which will again take some time to consider), it most likely won't be RO, mainly to save Banshee the trouble of dragging it back out of the Archived Forum (also, with the Data erased after our Gaming Rig Hard Drive crashed, we're going to be building everything again from scratch.
For now, any modding is on a "Maybe". We'll have time to consider once I manage to ring the disks together.
For now at this stage in the plan, the least I can do is thank you for your support, and it's definitely something I'm going to take into consideration when and if we get back to work.
EDIT - Incidentally, it appears RO has gone from the Archived Mods section too. I guess we really will be starting over if and when we start again. QUICK_EDIT
A mod becomes a chore if you are simply doing it for other people, or to please a crowd. You need to have an idea and goal you are passionate for achieving as modding takes up a lot of free time, unless you have something you really want to see done on a personal level don't bother, it will become tedious. The issue of having a team and how to deal with "rival" mods is interesting, though honestly, if you show enough potential (or in some cases even eagerness) you will attract people willing to chip in with different abilities and even if they're not a voxel / shp god, having another mind on board opens up a plethora of new potential. If you're not gaining any momentum at all, it might be a good idea to go back to the drawing board with your original idea.
Rival mods are probably the greatest thing to have in all honesty, I personally consider Twisted Insurrection "THE" mod for Tiberian Sun and it in no way dampens my modding spirits, a bit of friendly competition is healthy, it makes you have to actually come up with some alternatives and unique differences in order to keep things fresh and interesting and through that a mod can evolve. I certainly wouldn't say you should attempt to defeat your fellow mods and modders, but I like having a mod to look up to and the challenge of wondering "How could I do this better or in a different way?". I fully appreciate the problems of lack of fellow modders support and living in the shadow of a larger succesful mod, but it all comes down to yourself and your idea in the end, there's no point being a great modder trying to push out a crap idea or vice versa.
Lol, Shockwave, you don't even wanna know how many mods have slipped through my fingers over the years, or anyone else's for that matter. Losing a mod is gaining the knowledge that failure brought.
Getting a mod "team" together is probably one of the hardest things to do because of the difference in ideas everyone has and their need to do their OWN projects.
As cliche as it is, alot of people do ACTUALLY have Aspergers whether they want to admit it or not (including myself) and well, this is the internet. Everyone here is retarded. ESPECIALLY GUFU wherever he may be...
Look at me, I'm so smart I've about quit modding entirely (that's a lie).
I see AG has weighed in on the subject before Fen got to it, to much dismay. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Lol, Shockwave, you don't even wanna know how many mods have slipped through my fingers over the years, or anyone else's for that matter. Losing a mod is gaining the knowledge that failure brought.
Getting a mod "team" together is probably one of the hardest things to do because of the difference in ideas everyone has and their need to do their OWN projects.
As cliche as it is, alot of people do ACTUALLY have Aspergers whether they want to admit it or not (including myself) and well, this is the internet. Everyone here is retarded. ESPECIALLY GUFU wherever he may be...
Look at me, I'm so smart I've about quit modding entirely (that's a lie).
I see AG has weighed in on the subject before Fen got to it, to much dismay.
It's alright, I've at least developed the mental capacity to know advice/critique when I see it. I'd have replied to Morpher if I had a credible counterargument/way of expressing agreement.
I didn't know you were another AS sufferer. I apologize if I've accidently offended you in some capacity.
And I suppose that is also part of the reason I'm telling you all this - or at least allowing people to see where exactly we done goofed up. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Location: Tiberium Research Center N27
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:20 am Post subject:
4StarGeneral wrote:
As cliche as it is, alot of people do ACTUALLY have Aspergers whether they want to admit it or not (including myself) and well, this is the internet. Everyone here is retarded. ESPECIALLY GUFU wherever he may be...
Great post, champ. Calling everyone retarded, attacking a member, and then hiding behind the "I am special" screen.
Anyway, in regards to actual subject of the topic: One failed project is just a step in a direction. If it's a right one or not, cannot be said immediately. Also, I do highly agree with Morpher - it's best to work on a project for yourself, then release what you want, when you want. _________________ DUNK! QUICK_EDIT
*imagines all of PPM wearing protective helmets and babbling nonsense*
You don't have to imagine for it to have been going on for years
@Sir Shockwave - I took no offense to your post, honestly, and apologizing just draws in more trolls and is the exact reason why people give you such bad criticism half the time.
And to all parties concerned, I was joking when I said everyone was retarded, and no one should have taken offense to it, I sure don't.
_________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Meh, Morpher is right, hyper, , morpher and me, and others who jumped off and on certain projects stood alot of times on the brink of "srs buissnes" which didn't do any good to TO at all.
and gufu, yeah sometimes he says veeeeery offtopic and irritating things, but he's ok he's like ppm's mascot. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Location: Tiberium Research Center N27
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:53 am Post subject:
Banshee wrote:
Did you really take it seriously, gufu?
To be honest, yeah. It's rather difficult to check the intonation of someone's voice through text. Besides, not the first time I've seen such a phrase being used, quite often, in a serious connotation.
That's what I get for checking forums at 3AM, I guess. _________________ DUNK! QUICK_EDIT
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Why Red Orboros failed epically
he's like ppm's mascot.
