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Slight graphic improvements to Red Alert 2's terrain.
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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject:  Slight graphic improvements to Red Alert 2's terrain. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's some grass I recently made.


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CCHyper
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting, i like the look. Shame the normals do not reflect well in RA2, or can people emulate TS yet with it?

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not bad. not bad at all. you kept a good balance between the light and the dark grass, blends in well. unlike my AoEII HD grass :\

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Makes new terrain. Displays in badly compressed JPG.

Well from what I can tell it just looks like you've applied some kind of dissolve effect, I guess it's more subtle but I prefer the original.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's like you put vaseline over the lens.

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Zero18
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's beautiful to look at it for the enviroment, but the graphic hurts, it just looks like oversmoothed.

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oversmoothed? LMAO. The original looks over smoothed. I just basically used a googled grass texture that was seamless and raised it to high contrast, reduced color and overlaid it with Ra2's original grass tiles @ 30% opacity, just for the added texture detail. I've been considering making the dark grass more notable, while I like the way it blends.

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4StarGeneral
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well if you expect people to notice a difference in the tiny textures, you really should be uploading an optimized PNG instead of a crappy little JPG.

Just saying.

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The JPG is set to quality level 10 in Photoshop which results in a quality image that has a barely if unnoticeable reduction.

I've noticed the format rants too many times on this forum, seems people haven't really taken time to look at the difference and the possibilities. You can have a JPG and PNG come across as same quality. With a smaller filesize on the JPG.

Instead of jumping on the format bandwagon after just seeing the file extension test it out yourself or I'll start renaming my .PNG's to .JPG for the fun. <3

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tomsons26lv
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DaRTzO wrote:
The JPG is set to quality level 10 in Photoshop which results in a quality image that has a barely if unnoticeable reduction.

I've noticed the format rants too many times on this forum, seems people haven't really taken time to look at the difference and the possibilities. You can have a JPG and PNG come across as same quality. With a smaller filesize on the JPG.

Instead of jumping on the format bandwagon after just seeing the file extension test it out yourself or I'll start renaming my .PNG's to .JPG for the fun. <3

Nope jpg messes everything up at any level, png is loosless

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4StarGeneral
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think you understand about the difference lossless makes.

JPG = You just lost 15% of your image data at lvl 10, and dropping.

PNG = You lost none of the data, and you continue to lose none of the data.

Also, you could stand to "Save for Web" thereby compressing if you want to worry about filesize. Your 253KB JPG could be 138KB PNG or 82KB JPG.

Go ahead and rename your .png's to .jpg, I don't want to see them anyway.

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Starkku
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DaRTzO wrote:
The JPG is set to quality level 10 in Photoshop which results in a quality image that has a barely if unnoticeable reduction.


While I am not questioning the claim that JPG (with low compression) is actually preferrable choice to PNG in certain cases, I think your claim of having saved the image with quality level of 10 in PS is rather dubious. The amount of compression artifacts is far too high for that to be true.

On-topic: Not sure how much of an improvement the basic grass texture is (seems like just added noise at the moment, which does not really make it better), but now you'd probably need to edit some other stuff like dirt roads and cliffs to match it now since those look kind of out of place now.

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Starkku wrote:

While I am not questioning the claim that JPG (with low compression) is actually preferrable choice to PNG in certain cases, I think your claim of having saved the image with quality level of 10 in PS is rather dubious. The amount of compression artifacts is far too high for that to be true.

On-topic: Not sure how much of an improvement the basic grass texture is (seems like just added noise at the moment, which does not really make it better), but now you'd probably need to edit some other stuff like dirt roads and cliffs to match it now since those look kind of out of place now.


It looks the same to me on Chrome, win 7 ultimate 64x as it does on the computer. O.o Hence my argument.

It does pretty much seem like noise. Even though it improves the grass texture and makes it seem more volumetric and grassy all the other textures look washed out now. :/

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

4StarGeneral wrote:

Go ahead and rename your .png's to .jpg, I don't want to see them anyway.


Then why do you keep posting in all of my topics sir?
It seems illogical perhaps?

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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm its weird that all of my images are in .png and yet again since I upload them to servimg, it appears that they are converted to .jpg since uploading process, or it is shown on ppm as jpg. Or even png with scrapped quality. I open same images in my computer and they seems in normal quality, but since I upload and show here, they have sometimes ruined quality. That annoys me sometimes, but nah.
And yes, as majority said, jpg has little reduced quality compared to png.
But still, every modern mobile phone saves images as .jpg, as they have 3+ or 8+ megapixels. Pictures taken are about 3500x2500 pixels in jpg format about 1-3 Mbs file size. So in those cases jpg is perfect example for using in huge photos.

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stick with PNG, no matter how big the image is, there is never significant quality loss.
Example 1

Example 2

MasterHaosis, stop defending him. Even when I save a jpg image with quality 12 on my PC it still looks like crap.

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/ppm/'s stupidity

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From what I've noticed as well that some image hosts convert to JPG. I used imgur for the post. I should probably use my own host to post images then. Smile

Thanks for the feedback guys.

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From what I've noticed as well that some image hosts convert to JPG. I used imgur for the post. I should probably use my own host to post images then. Smile

Thanks for the feedback guys.

PS: How did you make those full map screens of FA2?

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You should use imageshack, never had any problems with it. Or if you have your own server, upload them there.

I did not make those map screens myself, as you can see at the top-left. I do however for Mental Omega maps.

As for the terrain, I think we should all reconsider our opinions when DaRTzO has updated it with a (HQ, proper) PNG image.

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/ppm/'s stupidity

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread






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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psst. Come for the PNGs guys. :O

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like the cliffs. Tropical.

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfortunately you've created blending errors in process, hard to judge on those merits, maybe it will look better when you done whole terrain and fixed blending for all tiles.

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Zero18
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The first image looks beautiful. Do you mind if I can have your terrain when you are finish making changes with other tiles to blend together? (if you are going to put it up for download) If no, then that is okay Smile.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That last screenshots looks like worse tiling than the original though...

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Nikademis Von Hisson
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Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Wilkes Barre PA

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't use temp terrain so what should I be looking for in these pics

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DaRTzO
Laser Commando


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Country Swing

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OmegaBolt wrote:
That last screenshots looks like worse tiling than the original though...


Sure does. I'll fix it soon. It looks better on some lighting conditions then others. ¬_¬

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Shadow Hunter
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Brazil.

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know, as you said the difference is slight indeed, as you can see from the dirt roads to the new grass the differences, but still the terrain still doesn't blend.

 I propose you to finish the blending effects soo it will look better and soo the response from the community.  Smile

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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RP wrote:
MasterHaosis, stop defending him. Even when I save a jpg image with quality 12 on my PC it still looks like crap.

I did not defend him.
I just said that its weird that I always save images as png with good quality, and after uploading to serving they got shitty quality.

DaRTzO wrote:
From what I've noticed as well that some image hosts convert to JPG. I used imgur for the post. I should probably use my own host to post images then. Smile

And that is perhaps why I got crap quality with servimg. it perhaps automatically convert to jpg.
RP, so imageshack has not problems with that?

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MasterHaosis wrote:
RP wrote:
MasterHaosis, stop defending him. Even when I save a jpg image with quality 12 on my PC it still looks like crap.

I did not defend him.
I just said that its weird that I always save images as png with good quality, and after uploading to serving they got shitty quality.


Well sorry then, I thought you were talking about JPG, in which case the statement would be valid.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RP wrote:
Well sorry then, I thought you were talking about JPG, in which case the statement would be valid.

No problem man. Misunderstanding may be also due to my ,,high quality English skills" Very Happy

I only said that jpgs are good in case of mobile phones camera images from 5 megapixels and above, since they took huge images (3500x2500 pixels), so when you open image in viewing program it just ,,fit to screen" image and looks good even jpg. But that statement is just for information purposes and is irrelevant here because we are not working on 3500x2500 mobile phone's photos, we are working on YR screenshots. So .jpg in that case is very very weaker than .png or jpg.
Just look at my screenshots which seems that servimg converted them from png to jpg. jpg even messes up some of glowing letters.
RP, you said that you save jpg image with quality 12. What is that?

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