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C&C cologne showmatch...
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blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject:  C&C cologne showmatch... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

in case anyone missed it, this was a so called "show match" of C&C at cologne....aside from the obvious flaws of the game, mainly the hideaus ingame interface, the whole thing looks , and probably is so rigged and fake beyond belief. There was no real strategy to it, all they did is showing of pre-produced units from pre-built bases and shower them with pre-loaded support powers, which are shit at this stage, or poorly implemented. the whole thing lasts for maybe 2 minutes, and this was the supposed "match", with obnoxious commentators shouting in starcraft language.

geegee......whats your opinion? aside from that, the engine looks beautiful, interface not so much, but well...it's an alpha build and i hope it changes...and i hope they keep support powers like these bombers for rare occassions accessible and define strategy more through updates rather than point and forget powers...




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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blubb, the game is in alpha state. It is far from being finished. I've played an alpha version of a C&C game before (C&C3) and there is a lot of things to be done when it is in this state. I'm actually surprised that this new C&C is stable and they did not had problems to show a match with it. The alpha C&C3 crashed often for every random reason. Give it few months and you'll see a much more polished game.

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blubb
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Blubb, the game is in alpha state. It is far from being finished. I've played an alpha version of a C&C game before (C&C3) and there is a lot of things to be done when it is in this state. I'm actually surprised that this new C&C is stable and they did not had problems to show a match with it. The alpha C&C3 crashed often for every random reason. Give it few months and you'll see a much more polished game.



i really hope so, the reason i am annoyed is the obvious "as if" mentality.
as if a full 15 minute or how  long a game normally runs was possible. as if watching the excuse of a full beforehand via facebook and whatnot notified "biig showmatch" and behaving like crazed starcraft commentators was some kind of positive, i'm sure a lot of people feel pissed again. I know the game is in alpha state, but if it's in alpha state, the dev team should explain that to the people who don't know that. The game has potential, a lot in fact and i wanna see a polioshed version. and hopefully finally a more complex command & conquer please.....

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m7
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think it was scripted. If you're working on the game and you know everything that exists, it probably is easy to identify powers. The commentating was odd indeed, but enjoyable nonetheless.  The alpha does indeed look like an alpha.

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scripted, probably not.
Recorded in advance, yeah I guess so.

What if they played it live and the fricking game crashed like with BF4? Razz

But yeah, it's an alpha. To be honest I did not notice it was pre-recorded until someone mentioned it.
Give Victory (not EA), a bit of credit.

I have the feeling they want to make it a nice game, in the end it would probably be the EA fella's that flush things down the toilet.
Nevertheless: lol @ "you ask, we deliver".

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Even if it is rigged and shit, can you blame them?

I mean, how ztyping embarassing would it be if the game shit the bed during the event? As far as bashing the game, wait until its out. It'll probably suck, but wait until it's out. That's like criticising older C&Cs on their beta/alpha footage.

Though those games looked gorgeous in their pre-release screens with doctor Westwood and doctor Adobe helping.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Volgin wrote:
Even if it is rigged and shit, can you blame them?

I mean, how ztyping embarassing would it be if the game shit the bed during the event? As far as bashing the game, wait until its out. It'll probably suck, but wait until it's out. That's like criticising older C&Cs on their beta/alpha footage.

Though those games looked gorgeous in their pre-release screens with doctor Westwood and doctor Adobe helping.



some people received beta keys and ctually....more and more alpha gameplay keeps popping up on YT, and the gameplay mechanics look like they have indeed improved a lot over older installments. but meh...yeah the interface really needs polishing...and meh if they hand out beta keys...a showmatch should have been possible.






geez, look at all these smexy upgrades which make gameplay so much better, 3 resource types? i'm ok with that, at least i will try the game when it's out, if not play it on a regular basis.

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RP
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're comparing GamesCome Alpha footage with even earlier footage.

No, there are no 3 resource types. If you'd actually looked at the GamesCom footage you could clearly hear them say they got back to 1 type of resource.
'Because the fans liked it so much in earlier titles' or something bullshitty.

EDIT: here's the footage where the guy talks about the oil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyEYwORU0dk&feature=player_detailpage#t=751
(@ 12:31)

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kinda sad they got rid of oil. added more depth. are there still generals points like in the first game from killing stuff for powers?

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There IS still Oil. Supplies (like Generals) and Oil.

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the guy in the video said there ain't. there are oil dericks like in RA2 providing money but not oil like starcraft gas.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You sure? In the current alpha there is and I do hope they keep it, albeit rebalance it a bit.

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

its what he says in the video. (@ 12:31)

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blubb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the footage is 1 week old, and there is oil, supplies and power plants for build space.

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so they made the game with oil, removed it, added it back? maybe your alpha is outdated, or not. dude in video said oil is out.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you saw the guy build oil derricks right? over the minimap there's a money counter with $ and oil, if it is really going to be out, i'd be very disappointed about the simplification...



edit: damned , you're right, it's out in the actual version...which ztyping sucks.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Seriously wish they wouldn't listen to fans. It always fucks them up.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Let me guess, they removed oil because fanboys complained it wasn't part of the original Generals?

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Martin Killer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Too many resources, too distracting.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are a couple of changes in the latest alpha. One of them that has certainly called people's attention is that the enemy buildings (position and kind of building) is revealed without scouting. I don't know if this is an experimental change or a final decision.

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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Martin Killer wrote:
Too many resources, too distracting.

It worked in Age of Empires, but there it was actually logical. It made sense that a catapult would require wood and rock to be built, while infantry would require food and gold.

In Generals on the other hand there's not really any logic behind a structure or unit specifically requiring a certain amount of gold and oil to be built, since using and refining raw resources obviously still has no place in that game (a tank isn't built from refined gold after all).

It won't be an issue if harvested oil and gold both simply get converted to the same currency though (basically like ore and gems in RA).

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It was never gold, it's just people call cash gold in RTS sometimes for no reason. It was just regular credits and separate Oil supply, now I guess then it's just back to credits because C&C fans suck and the developers (or rather the producers) have no backbone.

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If cash is cash and oil obviously gets turned into cash (unless all your buildings are made of rubber), its a perfectly logical reason why Oil as a resource was gotten rid of. Now if you had to mine steel or something, that would make sense. But its not something that would improve the gameplay at all, just make more harvesters to target and obliterate Smile

Not that I'm saying I want the resource system from RA3, heck no.

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DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oil derricks are still in. They got rid of the harvesting oil mechanic, cause ppl were all like ztype YOU STARCRAFT COPY CAT  VESPENE GAS.

Even the tanks move like in Starcraft, as in no acceleration, where as in Generals the tanks and planes moved somewhat realistically. In SC everything moves from point A to point B with their set speed.

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Bittah Commander
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Engine oil isn't in such a high demand that the oil would have to get harvested directly on the battlefield and be used for strictly that purpose...
Not that I dislike separate resources (like I mentioned, it worked perfectly fine in Age of Empires), but in C&C Generals it just doesn't make sense.

If tiberium was involved on the other hand, it could've made some sense however. Unlike supplies and oil, tiberium isn't converted to money, but it's directly refined and used as material to build units and structures from; it wouldn't have been extremely far-fetched to say that different tiberium types leech different resources from the soil and thus you'd need to harvest different kinds of tiberium in order to obtain the necessary resources to build particular units and structures from.

This is very much unlike supply depots, oil, gold, diamonds and so on, since these are all converted to currency to purchase the resources to build units and structures from and unlike with raw materials, requiring different types of currency to purchase a single object is just silly and illogical.

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like whiny C&C fans bitching that different resources is too much to handle. They should just make a C&C without any fan input at this point.

Every game (not tiberian twilight) tries to get back this original formula (whatever the ztype that is), win back fans with old factions/ideas, and be as basic as possible... and it sucks.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
Even the tanks move like in Starcraft, as in no acceleration, where as in Generals the tanks and planes moved somewhat realistically. In SC everything moves from point A to point B with their set speed.


That was actually the case in C&C3 as well, at least I recall Pitbulls behaving like so. It looks stupid if anything.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that is the first time i'm with volgin on this one.

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you. #Tongue

But seriously, they take no risks every time and make some mediocre product... its kind of sad. Its like CoD, except CoD makes money. :\

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you. #Tongue

But seriously, they take no risks every time and make some mediocre product... its kind of sad. Its like CoD, except CoD makes money. :\

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you should see the official command & conquer forum
how they pretend that "it was an unneccessary layer of tedious macro" that added no depth at all".

well if the developers would have made it right, it would have worked.

now with 1 resource, the gameplay gained a good bit more of "duuuh".

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey guys. I have a lot of interesting things to talk about this game. Unfortunately the hotel EA has sent us to has no decent wi-fi internet. So I'm using only the EA wifi from Gamescom with my mobile phone.

Anyway, they are back to 1 resource type only which they are considering the idea of calling 'gold'. Oil derricks can be built in strategical places for 750 credits and they'll work like previous games, except that you'll need to destroy the enemy one and build another in place to use it.

Regarding the buildings showed to the enemy, it stops showing the new buildings once the command center is built. Myself and other community guys did express their rejection to this idea, since the game becomes more predictable with it and they've said that it is an experience to prevent rushing.

Today I'll try to convince them to add some kind of support, even if it is unnoficial and not worth any experience to custom gamemodes and maps.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

let them add...some kind of second resource.

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Matthias M.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It is pretty normal that the industry does these staged things that look real for those expos. They hire people to train play those alpha builds and avoid not implemented stuff. Gamestar.de had an article about it.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wasn't the one who complained at the 2nd resource time although I was not a fan of it either.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

because it looks like starcraft? well yeah, that argument is stupid because all the rest of generals mechanic is derived from starcraft, so why not go fully with a better mechanic all in all?!

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The problem isn't being similar or different than Starcraft. The problem is adding more macromanagement without being fun.

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

look at age of empires, it has 4 resources and is fun, and you're saying the cnc community is so lame, it can't handle more than 1 resource and is so lazy, anything more would not be fun? then i'd say, look EA, what a stupid crowd we are!

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Tore
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

C&C games have always had two resources: Power and money.

I have nothing to say about the new C&C game other than the fact that in my option units move unnaturally, but that might be because the game is far from finished.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a couple of more interesting information we've just got from the last set of questions and answers with EA CIRE and his new assistant which I forgot the name:

- Assymetrical maps will be added in a later stage of development.
- C&C devs are trying to convince DICE to let Frostbite engine reads user created files (so they can add custom maps and mods or gamemodes). Currently C&C devs have no control on that part of the engine.
- I've suggested to them to make these custom maps, mods, or whatever in a file format that is readable by humans (XML), so it could allow 3rd party people to create tools. That idea was received in a very positive way by CIRE.

There's much more information that I'll post later.

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m7
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think that the CnC formula could be drastically improved by the addition of a second harvestable resource system. It's been proven a successful element in multiple games, and would likely translate well into the Generals storyline.

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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Power is gone too. Those powerplants are protoss pylons. at least thats what they once were described as long ago, if nothing changed since then.

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

China still has regular power.

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freedom fighter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone played Submarine Titans? That game had four resources: metal, corium, oxygen, and gold. The White Sharks and Black Octopi use metal as their standard resource, corium for advanced construction, oxygen to increase popcap, and gold to carry out researches. The Silicon have their own resources: silicon, corium, and power. Silicon is their standard resource (which is constantly produced instead of harvested), corium functions like the former two factions but also needed for research (basically, a substitute for gold), and power is produced by building a specific structure on metal.

Looks kinda tedious, even one of the three factions use completely different resources. But thats exactly why it was so interesting . It wasn't even that hard to manage the resources anyways (helps that the game had one of the most intelligent AIs, and a customizable one at that, in an RTS). Heck, the gold thing even had a market system that would allow you to buy gold with corium and vice versa when you need it. It was absolutely fun, though a bit complicated.

Shame we CnC douchebags couldn't even manage ONE resource...

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Power is not gone. The pylon system was removed, so APA and EU has the same power system in the upcoming alpha version.

And they want games that lasts from 2 to 30 minutes. So, new resource types goes against their vision (which I do not necessarily agree with).

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blubb
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you can have these timings with a second resource too, that's just a lame ass excuse and makes the gameplay stupid. just look at the money counter in these games, there's no limit of steamrolling.

edit: it makes cnc players look stupid if their argument is that "the users would have too much complexity at hands".

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Volgin
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Who the ztype does EA listen to when it comes to C&C players? I know they don't listen to the modding community, the Pro TT fans, or the TS worshippers, but WHO do they listen to? Surely not the screaming rubes on the forums/

Do they just listen to the gamereplays/competitive community? Are they STILL gunning for this market and trying to make a Starcraft killer out of C&C? That seems like the only group that would push for less complication and focusing on tactics.

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Nyerguds
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They considered adding the "pylon" power system for base defenses though, to prevent players from easily building turrets close to enemy bases as part of an assault.

There were a bunch of other interesting ideas thrown around... and funnily enough, the "issues we're currently working on" slide in the presentation had a column called "eliminate SC Similarities".


(yay for no NDA)

Note that none of this is final... this is mostly just a bunch of brainstorming based on feedback from tha alpha testers. We've actually had the chance to give feedback on gameplay, balance and bugs ourselves.

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blubb
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is so ztyping idiotic, whoever is in charge of the left panel especially deserves to be punched in the face, by horse hooves.

i'm ztyping out, because they will change the crap to the noob players demands, i'm out, playing starcraft 2, a much better game than this will ever be.


Edit: the alpha testers are a bunch of ztyping morons, like some person on this forum often says, they should die in a fire.

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